ATP World Tour Finals 2011, London Calling

First topic message reminder :

Here we go again!

Final tournament for the best 8 of 2011: Djokovic, Nadal, Murray, Federer, Ferrer, Berdych, Tsonga, Fish.


Some call it the 5th slam, some see it as an exhibiton, as for me, it presents as a super opportunity to expereience some more tennis thrill before the Christmas off-season, to see, hopefully some good matches and the legends of the game, LIVE!!!!

This time last year, the weather was awful, tube drivers were striking, 606v2 didn't exist, I had a near-death experience, and Nole managed to put TWO lenses in one eye and was considered by most to be a one slam wonder....


Haven't things changed in the meantime ?

So, I'm taking this last opportunity of 2011 to:

1) watch tennis in GMT time-zone and not have to wear massive bags under my eyes every morning
2) see a civilized scenario of 2 matches a day (must say a perfect portion!)
3) enjoy seeing those matches in the packed O2 arena every day for every match


And because one never knows what another day may bring, who may or may not be in London this time next year, because above all we all love tennis, let's enjoy the last stop of this 2011 quirky, cosy tennis ride, let the WTF commence


Order of play for Sunday, 18th of November 2011:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Finals/2011.aspx


P.S.

There will be a few people form this forum going to O2 next week. Please find a bit of time to give us your first-hand impressions and perhaps photos and personal anecdotes.

God willing, I'll be there on Sunday and Monday evening sessions.

carrieg4 wrote:

legendkillar wrote:Great result for Tsonga. Looking more and more impressive. I think with the current game he has, he could dislodge Murray out of the top 4 next season.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

I know. I don't want to admit that, but I just think for example where he lacks Murray's finesse and controlled movement, he makes up with an explosive FH and fine fine net play.

carrieg4 wrote:

legendkillar wrote:Great result for Tsonga. Looking more and more impressive. I think with the current game he has, he could dislodge Murray out of the top 4 next season.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

" It ain't gonna happen mate". A fit Murray should be challenging for no. 2 behind Federer

I just joined in but i read a lot of comments about Rafa's fitness, confidence, FH..
But is there any proof he can play much better than this indoors?
Jo is a great indoor player, Rafa not. Rafa couldn't pass Jo, couldn't return his 1st serve and saw his second serve being destroyed. So what do you expect?

lydian wrote:Becker says it right "Nadal's FH completely broke down"...completely abject by his standards. To think it was that close given his form was amazing...anyway well done JWT!

Yes Lydian, We all saw Nadal's FH broke down in that 3rd set...but it wasn;t the case in that 1st and second set. I am sure you noticed he tried to take the ball earlier and that is I believe the main reason why his FH broke down, cause you need great timing for that and be sharp...as I keep saying. Nadal is not a natural from close to teh baseline.

wow wrote:

carrieg4 wrote:

legendkillar wrote:Great result for Tsonga. Looking more and more impressive. I think with the current game he has, he could dislodge Murray out of the top 4 next season.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

" It ain't gonna happen mate". A fit Murray should be challenging for no. 2 behind Federer

The more of Tsonga I see and though it is good to see, I just think he could surpass Murray next year. Yes a fit Murray should and will be challenging the top 3, but now there is a genuine threat coming from below.

Well played JwT. Nadal given the circumstances.

gallery play wrote:I just joined in but i read a lot of comments about Rafa's fitness, confidence, FH..
But is there any proof he can play much better than this indoors?
Jo is a great indoor player, Rafa not. Rafa couldn't pass Jo, couldn't return his 1st serve and saw his second serve being destroyed. So what do you expect?

Especially in those first 2 sets...he tennis was simply as good as I have seen outside a "second week slam". SO roughly as good as ever bar 4 weeks a year.

Federer will be back to #3 (not that it matters much), if he wins his SF.

Tomorrow's matches have much more drama than today.

Nadal's season looks pretty abysmal for this year. 14 losses and no titles outside clay. If decline continues then he will be no better than Almagro.

legendkillar wrote:
The more of Tsonga I see and though it is good to see, I just think he could surpass Murray next year. Yes a fit Murray should and will be challenging the top 3, but now there is a genuine threat coming from below.

Yes to me Tsonga is the new Safin. Not as good a BH but as good a serve, better FH, much better mouvement and overall as eratic a player as Safin.

Tenez wrote:

gallery play wrote:I just joined in but i read a lot of comments about Rafa's fitness, confidence, FH..
But is there any proof he can play much better than this indoors?
Jo is a great indoor player, Rafa not. Rafa couldn't pass Jo, couldn't return his 1st serve and saw his second serve being destroyed. So what do you expect?

Especially in those first 2 sets...he tennis was simply as good as I have seen outside a "second week slam". SO roughly as good as ever bar 4 weeks a year.

Anyone remember Nadal-Murray SF @WTF 2010?

Tenez wrote:

legendkillar wrote:
The more of Tsonga I see and though it is good to see, I just think he could surpass Murray next year. Yes a fit Murray should and will be challenging the top 3, but now there is a genuine threat coming from below.

Yes to me Tsonga is the new Safin. Not as good a BH but as good a serve, better FH, much better mouvement and overall as eratic a player as Safin.

Tsonga was v good once (when he made aussie final) but he is incocnsistent and that causes his downfall. Tsonga will make to the finals (beating ferrer) however will lose to Fed.

Yes LF I remember that and Murray missed that by whisker. He had Nadal by the tenterhooks but did not close it.

laverfan wrote:

Tenez wrote:

gallery play wrote:I just joined in but i read a lot of comments about Rafa's fitness, confidence, FH..
But is there any proof he can play much better than this indoors?
Jo is a great indoor player, Rafa not. Rafa couldn't pass Jo, couldn't return his 1st serve and saw his second serve being destroyed. So what do you expect?

Especially in those first 2 sets...he tennis was simply as good as I have seen outside a "second week slam". SO roughly as good as ever bar 4 weeks a year.

Anyone remember Nadal-Murray SF @WTF 2010?

I knew someone would pick that one, but there aren't many more, are there?

laverfan wrote:

Tenez wrote:

gallery play wrote:I just joined in but i read a lot of comments about Rafa's fitness, confidence, FH..
But is there any proof he can play much better than this indoors?
Jo is a great indoor player, Rafa not. Rafa couldn't pass Jo, couldn't return his 1st serve and saw his second serve being destroyed. So what do you expect?

Especially in those first 2 sets...he tennis was simply as good as I have seen outside a "second week slam". SO roughly as good as ever bar 4 weeks a year.

Anyone remember Nadal-Murray SF @WTF 2010?

Yes perfectly. Amazing drama, pretty average shot making.

legendkillar wrote:

wow wrote:

carrieg4 wrote:

legendkillar wrote:Great result for Tsonga. Looking more and more impressive. I think with the current game he has, he could dislodge Murray out of the top 4 next season.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

" It ain't gonna happen mate". A fit Murray should be challenging for no. 2 behind Federer

The more of Tsonga I see and though it is good to see, I just think he could surpass Murray next year. Yes a fit Murray should and will be challenging the top 3, but now there is a genuine threat coming from below.

I see Tsonga providing a challenge but not a consistent challenge - he may have a brief foray into the top 5 but I have doubts about his ability to stay there. Plus Murray has a pretty good record against him.

tenez, are you going tomorrow night?

carrieg4 wrote:

legendkillar wrote:

wow wrote:

carrieg4 wrote:

legendkillar wrote:Great result for Tsonga. Looking more and more impressive. I think with the current game he has, he could dislodge Murray out of the top 4 next season.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

" It ain't gonna happen mate". A fit Murray should be challenging for no. 2 behind Federer

The more of Tsonga I see and though it is good to see, I just think he could surpass Murray next year. Yes a fit Murray should and will be challenging the top 3, but now there is a genuine threat coming from below.

I see Tsonga providing a challenge but not a consistent challenge - he may have a brief foray into the top 5 but I have doubts about his ability to stay there. Plus Murray has a pretty good record against him.

But I think Tsonga has become smarter on court. I couldn't foresee him bring his Grass form Indoors, if he can get that work outdoors on the hard stuff, I mean he will be a handful for any of the big 4.

noleisthebest wrote:tenez, are you going tomorrow night?

Fingers cross...not!

I am hoping my neighbour will buy my ticket...otherwise, I'll go....cause Paes playing.

If you are I've got a favour to ask , PM coming soon.

Looks like LK has a favour too.

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:tenez, are you going tomorrow night?

Fingers cross...not!

I am hoping my neighbour will buy my ticket...otherwise, I'll go....cause Paes playing.

You're going to the final too? Federer never loses when you're around, am i correct?

legendkillar wrote:

carrieg4 wrote:

legendkillar wrote:

wow wrote:

carrieg4 wrote:

legendkillar wrote:Great result for Tsonga. Looking more and more impressive. I think with the current game he has, he could dislodge Murray out of the top 4 next season.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

" It ain't gonna happen mate". A fit Murray should be challenging for no. 2 behind Federer

The more of Tsonga I see and though it is good to see, I just think he could surpass Murray next year. Yes a fit Murray should and will be challenging the top 3, but now there is a genuine threat coming from below.

I see Tsonga providing a challenge but not a consistent challenge - he may have a brief foray into the top 5 but I have doubts about his ability to stay there. Plus Murray has a pretty good record against him.

But I think Tsonga has become smarter on court. I couldn't foresee him bring his Grass form Indoors, if he can get that work outdoors on the hard stuff, I mean he will be a handful for any of the big 4.

Maybe but I'm not convinced yet.

Yes I am going to the final too....but no last time I went for the final, Davydenko won it. I was meant to go last year too but had family coming to visit me.

I can only see Djoko and an unstoppable Tsonga ruining Federer's chance....but as you say anything is possible with Federer nowadays....(what I say is that with guys like Tsonga and berdych anything is possible too).

Oh yes LK has a favour. Dave deserves shaming!!!

Tenez wrote:Yes I am going to the final too....but no last time I went for the final, Davydenko won it. I was meant to go last year too but had family coming to visit me.

I can only see Djoko and an unstoppable Tsonga ruining Federer's chance....but as you say anything is possible with Federer nowadays....(what I say is that with guys like Tsonga and berdych anything is possible too).

But you never saw him lose live anywhere, did you?

It was clear Tsonga and Nadal don't care much for each other. As I said, Tsonga has been vocal about his time taking between points, keeps saying Federer is the greatest for him and Thinks he should have won a few more of their encounters. Nadal on the other hand is very angry at Noah's comments on doping and must have loved to kick Tsonga bum tonight...

However as one noted, Nadal was stuffed like a thanksgiving turkey today!

Well done Jo - it was a case of who dares, wins , though did begin to wonder when he clutched in 2nd set and serving for match!!!

I didn't think Rafa played badly, not his brilliant best maybe but he was moving well and made some incredible gets. I don't see any sign of his form dropping tbh - at WTF 2009 everyone was writing him off, but seeing him live making 360 turns (not something you would do with sore knees) and playing accurately it was pretty obvious he just needed to find his confidence and begin to muscle those same shots a little bit more. Next week he will stride the clay like some Colossus, the confidence will flood back and he will be indominatable duracell bunny once more. The only time I will be worried about Rafa's long term form is the year that he is vulnerable to more than one player on the red stuff - when that day comes, I think his mojo will be almost impossible to find off the clay.

Tsonga is the result of a bear and a Foa Foa tribesman.

Pure beast

gallery play wrote:
I knew someone would pick that one, but there aren't many more, are there?

There are not that many indoor HCs that Nadal goes to.

Having said that, he beat Berdych last year (2010), and see where Berdych is this year. IMVHO, Tipsy let him off the hook with that silly volley.

Djokovic was handicapped by ContactLenseGate.

Just looking @TMC/WTF - http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Top-Players/Rafael-Nadal.aspx?t=pa&y=0&m=s&e=605#

there is no way in hell tsonga will overtake murray. for all his abilities, tsonga just doesnt have it in him to string two great wins in the same event.

laverfan wrote:

gallery play wrote:
I knew someone would pick that one, but there aren't many more, are there?

There are not that many indoor HCs that Nadal goes to.

Having said that, he beat Berdych last year (2010), and see where Berdych is this year. IMVHO, Tipsy let him off the hook with that silly volley.

Djokovic was handicapped by ContactLenseGate.

Just looking @TMC/WTF - http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Top-Players/Rafael-Nadal.aspx?t=pa&y=0&m=s&e=605#

Isn;t that typical LF? You think Nadal played well in that semi cause he won, right? WOudl you have said the same had he lost that key point and the match v Murray? Would you have come up with that match to try to counter GP argument? So once again, luck which is in effect what decided that match is the criteria to decide whether Nadal plays well or not? Typical.

The thing is that Murray certainly hasn't got the firepower of Tsonga so Nadal will have time to apply his attritional game versus Murray and allow him to play his best. That's the difference between yesterday and last year.

I was a the Nadal-Tsonga match and from what I could tell Nadal was definately up for it. Bouncing around at the net and in general giving off the desire to win vibe. I thought Tsonga was amazing, not the best he's ever played but still a good show. So much power and great touch at the net. Nadal had his moments too and I remember him hitting a backhand passing shot at one point like old times.

Whether or not this was 'peak owning Fed and GS winning' Nadal or not is another matter, he did hit a few uncharacteristic errors but Tsonga in general had too much for him and the match was largely on his racquet. It was great to see Tsonga realising some of his potential now and I could conceivably see him stopping Fed and wouldn't begrudge him that much. I almost feel like I missed out on Nadal because I was watching Tsonga most of the time.

Tsonga is capable of some awe-inspiring tennis but lacks the consistency to be a top five, or top four, player. Look at the awful service game he chucked in to lose to Fed earlier this week and the bad game at the end of the Nadal match, which fortunately, was not fatal.
JWT is always gonna be a handful on his day and I, for one, would like to see him challenging the top four. But I'm not sure it's gonna happen.

I would agree with you sirfred, 3 double faults when serving for the match. On that given day he was significantly better than Nadal though his mentality was enough of a factor to create a fair amount of doubt over the outcome. I hope he can fix this but I don't know how.

I think Tsonga is there to stay in the top 4 or 5. he will never have the consistency of some other players, but he will do better than them on some occasions and that will balance it up. In fact overa 5 year period, he might be more consistent than current top 5, cause he has a game which can allow him to stay in touch shoudl teh game change directions.

Order has been given. Tipsy to win today, as Djoko has been an embarrassment since USO.

I haven't actually seen Djokovic in action since US open finals, has he really been an embarassment?

DC, Basel, Paris, WTF, all a forgettable experience. They guy has ruined himself for 10 months, with what it seems a permanent damage.

break_in_the_fifth wrote:I haven't actually seen Djokovic in action since US open finals, has he really been an embarassment?

Only to the wishful thinkers...

break_in_the_fifth wrote:I haven't actually seen Djokovic in action since US open finals, has he really been an embarassment?

Nope, just not 100%. Let's face it he set the bar pretty high for most of the year making any drop in form due to injury / fatigue more noticeable.

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