Can we stop all the ducking garbage!!!

First topic message reminder :

"It was well documented that Jones said he would go no where near mclellan as a pro" ......"If Floyd would get some nuts"..."Leonard was scared of Pryor" "Tyson avoided Lewis like the plague"..."Chicken Bowe".......and so on and so on..

I find it almost hilarious that for the right money these fighters I and you have had the privilege of seeing plus others (from America mostly) would duck anybody!!!...They've all dug deep through wars!!

What they all have in common is a drive to be the best a long with the monetary considerations......They get up for good fighters not run away!!!

Let's start respecting these guys more...they've earned our respect!!!!

Are you trying to tell us that Bowe's belt walked into the alleyway and climbed into the bin all by itself??!!

Been enough hillbillies on here already Mate..

azania wrote:

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:Jones ducking darius? Good grief.

Damn it all we agree again? You'll be admitting that J. Johnson was an outstanding technician next. I'm converting you az, slowly but surely

Jones didn't duck D-mick. They both had reasons for the fight not being made. Jones didn't want or need to travel. He was making big paydays against the rest of his division. Nor did he fancy getting shafted by judges - and frankly - after Chisora-Helenius, can we blame him? D-Mich didn't fancy travelling stateside to make the fight.

The way the sanctioning bodies stripped D-mich to pander to Jones and HBO - now that was ridiculous.

If I ever say Rocky is semi decent then I'm fully converted. But you know that will never happen.

If I get that - I'm wasted on here. I should be working for the UN.

oxring wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:suggest ducking is a derogatory term for sticking the boot into a fighter you don't like...

Absolutely agree. Half of the "bradley-ducking-khan" brigade weren't nearly so vocal about Khan and Murry/Thaxton at LW.

Probably because more people are interested in a Bradley-Khan fight.

Talking of hillbillies....

What's your problem today TRUSS? Get a grip. No need for your persecution complex.

I was only joking....

Scottrf wrote:

oxring wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:suggest ducking is a derogatory term for sticking the boot into a fighter you don't like...

Absolutely agree. Half of the "bradley-ducking-khan" brigade weren't nearly so vocal about Khan and Murry/Thaxton at LW.

Probably because more people are interested in a Bradley-Khan fight.

Khan pre-loss to Prescott? There was massive domestic interest in Thaxton. I appreciate that Bradley is the fight the world wants to see and I'm not downplaying the interest in it - nor did my previous post.

My previous post was in response to Trussman's point about the use of the term "ducking" - and I followed up indicating my belief that there is hypocrisy in the way it is applied.

But you already knew that didn't you...

Sometimes people get accused of ducking wrongly but lets be honest, ducking happens all the time in boxing no point denying this.

Look at Bowe he ducked Lewis and threw his belt in a bin instead of facing him this was one of the most shameful ducking in history and that is why he is Chicken Bowe. Lewis absolutely destroyed him in the amateurs and Bowe was afraid. Tyson paid Lewis almost a million dollars so he would not have to fight him how is this not a duck??

Look at champions like Bute and Chavez they fight absolutely no one good and hang onto their belts for dear life. Who has Chavez fought? John Duddy? Not even the best middleweight in Ireland lol.

In the old days many champions would not fight black fighters this was also shameful and these guys were not proper champs.

But sometimes people get accused of ducking and I think it is unfair look at Hatton people used to say he was ducking Witter who was not in his class. Hatton was fighting much better quality and would have destroyed Witter who was not that good. People also said Leonard was ducking Hagler but he fought him and beat him.

So yes ducking happens in the sport that is just the way it is but people who do not duck get more respect and sometimes people who are acused of ducking are not. there should be some way that the best have to fight the best in boxing but sadly this is not the case otherwise guys like Bute and Chavez would not be world champions.

Why are you starting like that? My comments aren't personal.

There were plenty of people saying Khan was ducking at the time. More say Bradley is ducking because it's a big fight, Bradley has been offered contracts, and they are around the same level.

You may think you're higher class than everybody else..

I agree with what Truss is saying, ducking is the most overrated word in boxing.

The anti Hatton brigade will tell you he ducked Whitter and decided to fight 2 no marks in PBFand Pacman,the anti RJJ fans will make a case for fighters he allegedly ducked but fail to add he didn't duck the man rated PFP the best at the time James Toney,you can take any fighter you dislike and try to rip his record to shreds.

With regards to promoters, if a promoter decides he doesn't want a fight to happen then it won't,the promoter does the negotiating, could be protecting his own interests rather than the fighter,once the golden goose is cooked you can't cook it again.

Nico the gman wrote:I agree with what Truss is saying, ducking is the most overrated word in boxing.

The anti Hatton brigade will tell you he ducked Whitter and decided to fight 2 no marks in PBFand Pacman,the anti RJJ fans will make a case for fighters he allegedly ducked but fail to add he didn't duck the man rated PFP the best at the time James Toney,you can take any fighter you dislike and try to rip his record to shreds.

With regards to promoters, if a promoter decides he doesn't want a fight to happen then it won't,the promoter does the negotiating, could be protecting his own interests rather than the fighter,once the golden goose is cooked you can't cook it again.

You are right the people saying Haton was ducking Witter that is a bit of a joke tbh look at who he was fighting he beat TONS of guys that were better than Witter and would have destroyed Witter. People say the same thing about lots of fighters that they are ducking someone or that they did duck someone when this is not true that was the point I was trying to make.

But lets be honest ducking does happen who can honestly say Bowe did not duck Lewis?? He threw his belt away instead of fighting him so there is no doubt he ducked him on that one.

he fought Holy who was a bigger name...

Wouldn't necessarily say that Hatton 'ducked' Witter through abject fear, but as far as I'm concerned the fight should have happened, simple as that. Like it or not, for a good while Witter was considered the divisional number two. Yes, Hatton took on Mayweather, but I'd say avoidance of certain fights is a little more relevant when you're the one with something to lose. He had nothing to lose against Mayweather, everything to lose against Witter.

Is it that ridiculous to think that maybe, just maybe, instead of the fights with Maussa, Urango or Lazcano, perhaps Hatton could have accommodated a fellow 140 lb belt holder in a fight which was a guaranteed sell in the UK? A man with a better divisional ranking than at least two of those names?

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:he fought Holy who was a bigger name...

Holyfield fought them both. Im not even a big Lewis fan but he certainly never ducked anyone. Bowe ducked him

He already beat Holyfield who was not as good as Lewis. Lewis was next in line and he threw his belt away instead of fighting him. Lewis desroyed Bowe as an amateur and Bowe did not want to face him. He fought some bums instead and then lost to Holyfield which served him right for what he did. Bowe was not a proper champ imo he had no excuses for ducking Lewis who had earned his shot rightfully.

Yes but Truss there was a lot of other opportunities to fight him not just at that time, but he still wasn't interested.

88Chris05 wrote:Wouldn't necessarily say that Hatton 'ducked' Witter through abject fear, but as far as I'm concerned the fight should have happened, simple as that. Like it or not, for a good while Witter was considered the divisional number two. Yes, Hatton took on Mayweather, but I'd say avoidance of certain fights is a little more relevant when you're the one with something to lose. He had nothing to lose against Mayweather, everything to lose against Witter.

Is it that ridiculous to think that maybe, just maybe, instead of the fights with Maussa, Urango or Lazcano, perhaps Hatton could have accommodated a fellow 140 lb belt holder in a fight which was a guaranteed sell in the UK? A man with a better divisional ranking than at least two of those names?

Agree with you Chris the fight should have happened, it's difficult in those type of cases however. It's like he didn't necessarily duck him, but sort of avoided him to make sure he had bigger fights for more money. The fight should have happened though.

No steffy...I mean't he fought Holy instead of Lewis!!! Hence the WBc belt stripping or vacating..

holy was more highly regarded,,,

Hatton-Witter wasn't enough money to justify the risk.....

Business decision pure and simple...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:No steffy...I mean't he fought Holy instead of Lewis!!! Hence the WBc belt stripping or vacating..

holy was more highly regarded,,,

Yes Holyfield was more high regarded. But after beating him 2-1 in their trilogy I never knew why Bowe was ducking Lewis who had already been sparked by McCall. Would have been a good fight and I hope Floyd v Manny doesnt end up going the same way

Floyd Manny has to happen, it's the biggest load of tosh ever now. If it doesn't happen I'll be very annoyed, I may even write an angry letter.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Hatton-Witter wasn't enough money to justify the risk.....

Business decision pure and simple...

Not every Hatton fight was a Vegas superfight type of affair, Truss. What kind of money did Hatton-Maussa, Hatton-Urango or Hatton-Lazcano make? Not as much as Hatton-Witter would have, I'd imagine, and certainly none of them would have ignited as much interest.

Hatton winning, at best, two rounds out of fourteen in the two megafights he was in suggests to me that he wasn't in a totally different stratosphere to the Witter types the way some suggest he was. I think it's actually a shame that a divisional number one taking on a divisional number two can be seen as such a laughable idea by some, but that's just me I suppose.

To justify the risk...

Hatton said Whitter wouldn't keep his mouth shut at the BBCsports personality of the year so showed a total direspect, Hatton said he made his mind up Whitter wasn't getting a big pay cheque out of him,lets be fair Hatton was the money spinner,Whitter couldn't sell a phone box out.

AlexHuckerby wrote:Floyd Manny has to happen, it's the biggest load of tosh ever now. If it doesn't happen I'll be very annoyed, I may even write an angry letter.

The problem with Floyd and Manny is everyone knows how much this fight is worth so Floyd, Manny, Bob Arum etc are trying to milk it for all its worth. Worst thing is it nearly backfired after the Marquez fight. Think they both know its now or never and next year its gotta happen

No it hasn't happened because they can't agree numbers..pure and simple...

Nico the gman wrote:Hatton said Whitter wouldn't keep his mouth shut at the BBCsports personality of the year so showed a total direspect, Hatton said he made his mind up Whitter wasn't getting a big pay cheque out of him,lets be fair Hatton was the money spinner,Whitter couldn't sell a phone box out.

True. Witter was fighting infront of small crowds when Hatton was becoming a superstar on both sides of the Atlantic. Witter just tried to get some publicity out of him. Never rated Witter. Easy night for the Hitman there

Doesn't happen in 2012 I'm not even interested anymore. PLain and simple Steffan.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:No it hasn't happened because they can't agree numbers..pure and simple...

Is kinda what I meant it not so many words

Who ever had an easy night with Witter??? Hatton struggled with Maussa..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:No it hasn't happened because they can't agree numbers..pure and simple...

Not because they've decided to take little risk big reward fights instead? Because they know if they lose they won't get as big a payday anymore? Because Bob Arum has shut down negotiations because he ates Floyd which is comign out of Mannys camp?

No, no, they just can't agree numbers Truss... Jesus.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Who ever had an easy night with Witter??? Hatton struggled with Maussa..

Still not a fight I would have wanted to watch though

Backtracking huh Steffy!!

Can't agree numbers....why would they take other fights when they can share a 100 million pot..

I'm not jesus either..just Truss.

Think Witter may have been able to take Hatton the distance and have it close, Hatton might have got it on aggression, but would have definitely struggled. Let's all be honest, Witter was rarely fun to watch.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Backtracking huh Steffy!!

Can't agree numbers....why would they take other fights when they can share a 100 million pot..

I'm not jesus either..just Truss.

As you say in Witter / Hatton, the numbers don't justify the risk.

Whitter would have gone into his shell once Hatton had caught him with a solid shot,Whitter could stink the place out a lot of the time

The numbers do when you are splitting a 100 million purse..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Backtracking huh Steffy!!

I said they are all trying to milk it for whats its worth. Very simular to saying its all the about numbers

Please lets not argue over the technicality of the meaning of what I said as it reminds me too much of school English Literature lessons

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The numbers do when you are splitting a 100 million purse..

50% of 100m purse for 50% risk vs 90% of a 50m purse with 10% risk.

It's not a no brainer and they already agreed on a 50/50 money split, it's not the money holding this up.

Witter would be an easy night....

Whoever had an easy night with Witter...??

Still wouldn't want to watch it though...

Sounds like a backtrack to me....

I think Hatton at his best, the snarling, aggressive and relentless version of 2006 / 2007, stops Witter late on. Can see Witter freezing on the big stage as he had a habit of doing now and then. Think he'd fight a very cautious battle, content to probe the outside and look for openings, but would eventually be overwhelmed. Witter didn't like it up him, as they say. Can see him getting disheartened and eventually worn down.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Witter would be an easy night....

Whoever had an easy night with Witter...??

Still wouldn't want to watch it though...

Sounds like a backtrack to me....

Ok il make a statement just to avoid any backtracking...you should be a copper by the way...Hatton would have had an easy night against Witter. I would have not paid £15 for it

There we are

Cops don't get paid enough....

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Cops don't get paid enough....

Pension isnt very good either

Think of me though doing voluntary work in a museum next month...

Good I've never met a cop I like..

Steffan wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Cops don't get paid enough....

Pension isnt very good either

Think of me though doing voluntary work in a museum next month...

Maybe you can see the original versions of TRUSS's articles.

Scottrf wrote:Maybe you can see the original versions of TRUSS's articles.

Scott - how do you do that clever thing where you quote cut and paste a url so it goes straight to the desired post?