Should the ERC/6N/Pro 12 move from Dublin?

First topic message reminder :

Valid critics or even high-level conspiracy theorists believe that having most of European Rugby's league and cup offices based in Dublin, led by an Irishman with mainly Irish staff is unfair. Questions about neutrality of decisions related to referee appointments, staging of home knockout games, financial decisions on sponsorship, TV rights, etc have been raised.

Should they be moved elsewhere or rotated every number of years?

I stated that they were in the EU...at least until the Tory back bencher force Cameron to take us out or get turfed out

The taxation is not the issue. It is an issue for France in particular to stop multinationals relocating to Dublin and Zurich and London once the UK reduce their rates.

roddersm wrote:I stated that they were in the EU...at least until the Tory back bencher force Cameron to take us out or get turfed out

The taxation is not the issue. It is an issue for France in particular to stop multinationals relocating to Dublin and Zurich and London once the UK reduce their rates.

roddersm wrote:Its France who are pushing for the Tax harminisation,
not the germans. As the non Euro EU member states like the UK and
Switzerland will not be obliged to harmonise their tax its a bit of a
red herring.

Ireland will not agree so it won't happen.

And exactly what will they chose to do - go it alone?

Ed: Ah I see what you mean Non-EZ states. Switzerland is not an EU member.

Portnoy wrote:
And exactly what will they chose to do - go it alone?

I would imagine that it will come up but if they are pushed my guess is that Ireland, will threaten a referendum, which Germany will not want, and then there will be some sort of compromise as there was before when they were negotioating the bailout.

It simply won't happen as the low corperation tax is the only chink of light for Ireland right now.

Good luck.

I don't need it...I live in the UK

I know Rodders - I meant good luck to them in maintaining a fluctuating Punt on the World market (unless they decide to reintroduce a version of the European currency snake).

To be honest Portnoy theres a lot of countries in very precarious positions, not just within the EZ and this will be the crux year I think for all of us. There's countries with bigger problems even than Ireland and if raising and harmonising the tax rates across the EZ was one of the the big issues then we'd all be laughing...unfortunately it isn't.

Interestingly reducing Corporation Tax in the North of Ireland is a topic of active discussion at the moment.

geoff998rugby wrote:Interestingly reducing Corporation Tax in the North of Ireland is a topic of active discussion at the moment.

Even more interesting is talk of a Scottish referendum on independence or greater fiscal powers.

Can't see NI really getting a lower corporation tax than the rest of the UK...unless its as guinea pig before lowering England and Wales.

geoff998rugby wrote:Interestingly reducing Corporation Tax in the North of Ireland is a topic of active discussion at the moment.

But that is a UK debate to assist 'Ulster' to combat the relative deprivation caused by cross-border flows. And to assist the local economy generally.

Whilst the UK remains united and outside of the EZ, that's a domestic issue.

Portnoy, Ireland has been in crisis for three years now. Every possible solution has been discussed over and over again. Every future scenario has been inspected thoroughly. It's been wall to wall coverage in every newspaper and current affairs show for years. Every economist has had his say. And I think that now, your average Irishman is actually quite well informed on the subject and a bit more knowlegable in the subject of macro-economics and European affairs than he used to be. So you're arguing with people who probably know what they're on about.

One thing I'm pretty sure of, is that France will not get its way, and Ireland's corporate tax rate will not be touched. They'll try of course. Particularly the French. But the French aren't running this show, no matter how much they like to think so. But we'll keep it. Losing it would be the final nail in the coffin for Irelands economy. It's probably the one thing that would cause the Irish people to do a Britain and just walk out and tell the EU to go stuff themselves and call for a return to the punt.

Portnoy wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:Interestingly reducing Corporation Tax in the North of Ireland is a topic of active discussion at the moment.

But that is a UK debate to assist 'Ulster' to combat the relative deprivation caused by cross-border flows. And to assist the local economy generally.

Whilst the UK remains united and outside of the EZ, that's a domestic issue.

That debate stems from the fact that we have visionless and clueless leaders who think lowering corporation tax is a silver bullet for 'rebalancing' NI's public sector driven economy.

If we want to really tackle deprivation and unemployment then build some decent transport infrastucture, roads fit for purpose, modern railway links between the major cities and towns, invest in higher education and stop wastage on duplication of services...and FFS get rid of the red tape in the planning services.

Rant over

Portnoy wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:Interestingly reducing Corporation Tax in the North of Ireland is a topic of active discussion at the moment.

But that is a UK debate to assist 'Ulster' to combat the relative deprivation caused by cross-border flows. And to assist the local economy generally.

Whilst the UK remains united and outside of the EZ, that's a domestic issue.

Yes it is but it is only being considered in order to match the south.

They would not be doing it if the prospect of Corporation Tax going up in the south was imminent.
It is because there is no prospect of the southern Corporation tax rates changing, after the Merkel - Sarkozy agreement that is is being consider.

Which proves the point the south are not required to change their Corporation Tax under the new agreement.

Ireland will not have to reduce their corporate tax rate, in fact the term tax harmonisation is a very misleading term as all EU & ECB circulars to date seem to indicate that tax harmonisation is really a current account harmonisation.

From what I have seen economies, under the terms of tax harmonisation, will need to either bring current government expenditure in line with their tax take (cut the cost of public services to that level which can be easily adjusted to match any tax take fluctuations) or they can raise taxes to maintain their current level of expenditure on public services.

So really it relates to the ratio of tax to public services - for Ireland this means running a low cost public service (which is something we do definitely do not have at the moment) if we want to retain our tax rate.

So - the tax rate aint going anywhere but expect a few more tough years if you work in the civil service.

The IRB/ERC/6N/RaboPro12 should stay in Dublin cos Ireland needs all the help it can get - in return we will give you Bertie Ahern!

Feckless Rogue wrote:Portnoy, Ireland has been in crisis for three years now. Every possible solution has been discussed over and over again. Every future scenario has been inspected thoroughly. It's been wall to wall coverage in every newspaper and current affairs show for years. Every economist has had his say. And I think that now, your average Irishman is actually quite well informed on the subject and a bit more knowlegable in the subject of macro-economics and European affairs than he used to be. So you're arguing with people who probably know what they're on about.

One thing I'm pretty sure of, is that France will not get its way, and Ireland's corporate tax rate will not be touched. They'll try of course. Particularly the French. But the French aren't running this show, no matter how much they like to think so. But we'll keep it. Losing it would be the final nail in the coffin for Irelands economy. It's probably the one thing that would cause the Irish people to do a Britain and just walk out and tell the EU to go stuff themselves and call for a return to the punt.

I am the exception that proves the rule here.

Haha. Well maybe people still don't have a clue then. I've been hearing about all this non-stop for so long that I presume I've absorbed some of the information. Although I'm still not sure how a bank can lose 30 billion euro's. Who were they giving loans to? Tramps? Roadkill? Random inanimate objects?

Feckless Rogue wrote:Although I'm still not sure how a bank can lose 30 billion euro's. Who were they giving loans to? Tramps? Roadkill? Random inanimate objects?

Worse....property developers..... ...every man and his dog had/has multiple houses courtesy of BoI and RBS....the current mess is surprisingly easy to forsee with the benefit of hindsight .....

I took out my investments when the stock market was just below its height, before it took a 50% nose dive.

The problem was there for all to see if you kept you eyes and ears open

Mind you been a kick in the teeth to the pension though

geoff998rugby wrote:The problem was there for all to see if you kept you eyes and ears open

Thats true Geoff but most didn't see it coming and by the time Lehman bros collapsed it was too late. The worst of the mess isn't over yet, with 2012 looking like a year were many will struggle to refinance short term fixed rate loans and morgages and changes to housing benefit will make it harder to rent out properties.

The hole in the banks balance sheets could be about to get a lot worse .

Absolutely true. I was going to retire in 3 years time, 5 years time now to make up for the loss of pension.

An unintended consequence of this turmoil is people like me not being able to retire and hanging around longer, and not freeing up jobs for youngsters.

I was going to sell my house and live the dream for a while....now I have to carry on working for a living.... ....thankfully I can live the virtual dream on 606V2!

Give the French..and the silent but more worrying Germans.. their way and Ireland will go back to being a pastoral playground, gratefully accepting handouts from our big brothers who host the big pharmaceutical and silicon companies... and us hoping they all come and stay in our twee little thatched cottages to give us the bit of cash for the bit of turf to get us through the winter.

France and Germany want to regionalise Europe. That is to say they want major industries concentrated in the centre and the pastoral, agricultural and cottage industries based on the fringes. That is to say, they want the millionaire Silcon Valley lifestyles so that they can pack their weekend bags and go off to the poor country bumpkins for a nice relaxing break in a quiet place with few people and no factories.

Awww...how sweet. I say we tell Europe to take a hike, take back our cold water cash-rich fishing grounds and sell those fish (that only we have rights to) back to the landlocked continentals at a very big Premium. We pay our 'bills' off and then reap the benefits of protected fishing territory (possible oil reserves) and corporate tax-break industry.

Much sweeter

People talk about Tax for mutlinationals in Ireland like its some sort of unfair advantage.

A Sovereign nation has a right to apply any tax level, benifit it seems fit to. It may be that it is lower than some European neighbours ( who also happen to be in the top 10 world economies with populations over 60 mil) but given Ireland is a soggy little land mass, on no trade routes and hanging off the bum crack of Europe we need to create any advantage. Like any country there are incentives on offer, but, Ireland has a youngish, well(ish) educated workforce, not a huge Union movement (mutinationals love that), Native English speaker and (still) and large pool of multi lingual migrants.

Who gives 2 flying fecks where the IRB ERC and all the rest are based anyway....................!

PS you'll note my spelling and grammer and understand why I say well(ish) educated!

Goose - Well said boy.

Goosestepper wrote:
Who gives 2 flying fecks where the IRB ERC and all the rest are based anyway....................!

Exactly, what have they ever done for us? You'd think they were creating massive employment here - even having a few world cup games held here or a few Heineken Cup finals in Dublin wouldn't go amiss to say thanks to the Irish people because, thanks to them, the IRB/ERC/B+I Lions have 20% more money to spend/make.

Jeez - all I asked was whether they should move or rotate the bodies - and I get a verbal diarrohea explosion on tax harmonization and the crafty Germans. I thought the idea of this site was to get away from all that.

don't you know the one about the butterfly flapping its wings in Beijing causing a hurricane in the Carribean..............!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect

Lateral thinking is good too........


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_de_Bono

(I do my best lateral thinking when a bit P*ssed which is when I have my little rants on here - not peed now though so no rant)

In the spirit of Lateral Thinking, or thinking when on the booze, I suggest moving all of Rugby's governing bodies to the Isle of Man. Central located, at least to 4 of the 6 Nations, the ultimate tax haven in these islands, and somewhat neutral in all the Rugby battles. And since it is not so easy to get there, the only people who would actually want to work and live there would be true Rugby folk.

And cats. Lots of stupid ugly cats. I hate cats.