England ODI squad

First topic message reminder :

So with the ODI'S coming up, who would be in your squad....i will name my starting side, and the 4 reserves...

1.Cook (c)
2.Hales
3.Trott
4.KP
5.Morgan
6.Buttler (wk) (in ridiclously good form for the lions, in spinning conditions)
7.Patel/bresnan
8.Swann
9.Broad
10.Dernbach
11.Finn/Borthwick
12.Anderson
13.Bopara
14.Bairstow
15.Taylor

hodge wrote:an average of 32.08 for a 21 year old is hardly struggling at first class level, compared to his average of 70 of list A cricket.....

He bats at 5/7 in F/C, so faces the older ball, therefore an average of 32 is poor. Lets remember Taunton is hardly a bowlers playground

Gregers wrote:Well said Hodge, I'm wondering how much of young Jos you've seen Demon Racer

I was in the UK last summer and saw plenty of Buttler, around 15-20 digs

hodge wrote:an average of 32.08 for a 21 year old is hardly struggling at first class level, compared to his average of 70 of list A cricket.....

I think he has improved his FC game massively over the last year, seem to remember him getting quite a few runs at the end of last season. Like I said before I think he'll go on to be a big player in all 3 forms for England.

Demon Racer wrote:

hodge wrote:an average of 32.08 for a 21 year old is hardly struggling at first class level, compared to his average of 70 of list A cricket.....

He bats at 5/7 in F/C, so faces the older ball, therefore an average of 32 is poor. Lets remember Taunton is hardly a bowlers playground

so surely if Taunton is the bowling deadspot you describe more often than not surely he should be facing a newer ball if he's batting 5-7?

the groundstaff at taunton have been working over the last 3 seasons or so to offer more in the pitch for bowlers having realised that they can't win the county championship on batting alone.

Also if its the older ball it will mean the spinners will be bowling a large chunk which is what people have been discussing how Buttler plays spin, which he does well.

hodge wrote:

Demon Racer wrote:

hodge wrote:an average of 32.08 for a 21 year old is hardly struggling at first class level, compared to his average of 70 of list A cricket.....

He bats at 5/7 in F/C, so faces the older ball, therefore an average of 32 is poor. Lets remember Taunton is hardly a bowlers playground

so surely if Taunton is the bowling deadspot you describe more often than not surely he should be facing a newer ball if he's batting 5-7?

the groundstaff at taunton have been working over the last 3 seasons or so to offer more in the pitch for bowlers having realised that they can't win the county championship on batting alone.

Also if its the older ball it will mean the spinners will be bowling a large chunk which is what people have been discussing how Buttler plays spin, which he does well.

Non turning tracks in England hardly means he a good player of spin, just ask Ian Bell.

What decent spinners play in ENG F/C? Tahir, Kartik???? Kartik played with Buttler

so the fact hes just averaged 80+ with 2 100s and at a strikerate of around 120 in sri lanka against sri lanka A whose team included at least one spinner who has played tests for them in the last year counts for nothing ?

you just keep wumming away tho, its good for a laugh if nothing else

Gregers wrote:Struggled at F/C level? Yes because thats relevant to him being picked for a one day game.

Both in t20 and pro40 he was devastating last season, he's done it again in Sri Lanka so why won't he do it at international level.

Man is class and will be WORLD CLASS.

Has a bit of the Pietersen about him if you ask me ...



Joking aside its a bit premature to be talking of him as a test player yet. Some guys like this do make it, many dont. You can argue about his technique, but does he have any more experience of grinding out an innings and adjusting his mindset and game than Morgan?

At the minute hes an exciting prospect as a limited overs player, hes got a lot to prove before you can start calling him a test batsman.

Demon Racer wrote:

hodge wrote:

Demon Racer wrote:

hodge wrote:an average of 32.08 for a 21 year old is hardly struggling at first class level, compared to his average of 70 of list A cricket.....

He bats at 5/7 in F/C, so faces the older ball, therefore an average of 32 is poor. Lets remember Taunton is hardly a bowlers playground

so surely if Taunton is the bowling deadspot you describe more often than not surely he should be facing a newer ball if he's batting 5-7?

the groundstaff at taunton have been working over the last 3 seasons or so to offer more in the pitch for bowlers having realised that they can't win the county championship on batting alone.

Also if its the older ball it will mean the spinners will be bowling a large chunk which is what people have been discussing how Buttler plays spin, which he does well.

Non turning tracks in England hardly means he a good player of spin, just ask Ian Bell.

What decent spinners play in ENG F/C? Tahir, Kartik???? Kartik played with Buttler

The groundsman made Taunton offer some turn because Kartik was playing there, seen in game on TV you could see him turn it.

rich1uk wrote:so the fact hes just averaged 80+ with 2 100s and at a strikerate of around 120 in sri lanka against sri lanka A whose team included at least one spinner who has played tests for them in the last year counts for nothing ?

you just keep wumming away tho, its good for a laugh if nothing else

Kevin Pietersen once averaged 151 in an ODI series against us....

sorry but what does that have to do with me proving your statement about buttler's inability to play spin to be false ?

buttler is a very good player of spin....

you dont score masses of runs in sri lanka if you cant play spin!

rich1uk wrote:sorry but what does that have to do with me proving your statement about buttler's inability to play spin to be false ?

There's a saying called 'flash in the pan'...

demon you have clearly never seen buttler play...he isnt a flash in the pan he is a quality bowler.

cricketfan90 wrote:demon you have clearly never seen buttler play...he isnt a flash in the pan he is a quality bowler.

Bowler? I was under the impression he was a w/k batsman...

Demon, why do you dislike Jos so much? Or is it just wumming?

Have faith, Buttler can play. I rate him more than Bairstow in the shorter form of the game and I thought it should have been Jos who got a go against India in the summer, and when they went to India. He knows his scoring areas and he can play all the shots, whether it is the powerful hit down the ground or the delicate "dil-scoop". And in that he is tremendous form on similar spinning pitches makes him a shoo-in for the side in my eyes. He should be fine playing Rehman as he is just a left arm spinner, no mystery there, but if he can pick and play Ajmal then that will be incredibly impressive for such a young man.

As for him making the Test side one day his FC career is improving. He played a lot of second XI cricket at the start of last year as he wasn't getting the runs in the County games, but he came back strong. He made his maiden FC hundred against Sussex on a brute off a pitch where Somerset were skittled for 230 in that innings so it is too soon to say whether he will make the Test side, but he certainly has a future in the one day stuff and he looks to have the makings of a potential Test player. Good head and temprement.

Gregers wrote:Demon, why do you dislike Jos so much? Or is it just wumming?

Nothing to do with disliking him Gregers, I've seen him bat, I wasn't very impressed. I personally feel Davies(Surrey) and Bairstow(Yorkshire) are better than him.

Buttler >>>>>> Bairstow

Demon Racer wrote:

cricketfan90 wrote:demon you have clearly never seen buttler play...he isnt a flash in the pan he is a quality bowler.

Bowler? I was under the impression he was a w/k batsman...

sorry my mistake that was a typo

either way buttler is class!

...and injured

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:...and injured

is he??

As a hants fan im delighted Briggsy has got his chance, has always performed for the lions

still harsh that borthwick got left out.

Briggs is a better bowler, he got most 20/20 wickets the season before last and has been brilliant for the Lions. That has to mean something? Otherwise whats the point in the lions games?

It doesn't matter who England select in the ODI squad to play in these Dubai playing conditions, as the team seems to have developed a mental flaw with playing well on very slow wickets which offer spinners a lot of turn. This mental problem probably surfaced during the last ODI/T20 V West Indies in the summer when England got bowled out for under 100 and the unheralded West Indian spinner Mathurin got the man of the match award for his bowling spell where he captured 3 or more wickets.

cricketfan90 wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:...and injured

is he??

http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakistan-v-england-2012/content/current/story/552673.html

Apparently damaged it pouring a hand shandy (thats probably not true)

FFS Demon is still on the forum.

Apparently Keissweter is going to bat at 5 with Cook and KP opening, I assume Trott and Morgan 3/4

Obviously Broad and Swann will play but other spots are anyones guess really.

Personally I think that's too high for Morgan. He's good in the middle overs and finishing, a couple of early wickets and you've got your best ODI player facing the new ball which everyone knows he's less comfortable at. On the other hand, Bevan played at 4 for a while for Australia (certainly in 2000 in the indoor series against South Africa he made a 100 from there) so obviously it can be done...

Mike,

I guess the point is that they are backing him as tehir best batsman..not just a finisher. They are asking him to get centuries, not just rapid 50s.
Its the role KP used to have.

England have shown a lot of faith in Morgan, and clealry arent letting his test woes affect how they see him in ODIs. Hes now the senior batsman.

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:FFS Demon is still on the forum.

?

cricketfan90 wrote:

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:FFS Demon is still on the forum.

?

Hes a bit obnoxious, but got it right about Pakistan. It winds people up.

really wish that borthwick was included however we will see how briggs does.

Poor preparation again from england? Surely they could have picked another team to prepare with?

how!!!!!!!!!!

they are playing in the dessert FFS

Pakistan picked Afghanistan - surely you could have picked up an indian 2nd 11? just to get people who are trying to break into the first team. They can afford to fund it and they really do need it - they identified their preparation as a weak point in the test series and yet have done little to rectify it.

Before the game though it looked a great idea, England players out of form, here was the lions players chance to take a spot in the main team and make the guy in their spot look bad so to say. They didn't do it, justifying the players position who are in the team atm

ShahenshahG wrote:Pakistan picked Afghanistan - surely you could have picked up an indian 2nd 11? just to get people who are trying to break into the first team. They can afford to fund it and they really do need it - they identified their preparation as a weak point in the test series and yet have done little to rectify it.

:facepalm

its not the first XI'S fault that the lions failed in a game where they should have been tested!

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

cricketfan90 wrote:

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:FFS Demon is still on the forum.

?

Hes a bit obnoxious, but got it right about Pakistan. It winds people up.

So by making a prediction, which was 1-0 PAK, and being correct, I'm obnoxious? Strange world....

must admit, im not sure how that makes you obnoxious

cricketfan90 wrote:how!!!!!!!!!!

they are playing in the dessert FFS

Sounds delicious!

Carrotdude wrote:

cricketfan90 wrote:how!!!!!!!!!!

they are playing in the dessert FFS

Sounds delicious!

Fair enough hodge but the England first team struggled mightily on these types of pitches surely they could have got people who play on these types of pitches regularly and actually played a day nighter - now they are going to play a match without having any recent experience of the conditions and without any serious innings under their belts. Sri lankas first team bowlers arent great - what hope did the second string have in giving the lions a fair test?

To be fair, the last time England played against the Lions was in Abu Dhabi (I think) and the Lions actually won and on the basis of that they picked up Kieswetter and Lumb for the T20 squad that won the WC, and they probably wouldn't have won the T20 World Cup without them at the top of the order. So, it was definitely a success last time so I can't blame them for doing it again.

Ok understandable but still a bit off - But playing during the day? Surely someone up there must have realised that they are playing day nighters.

Yeah, I think they were scheduled to play a day nighter but it may have been affected slightly by the Lions being bowled out off 28 overs but it still wouldn't have been much of a day/nighter which is a bit weird.

massive series for cook's captaincy..

in the sub-contient, after our last odi series in india we got whitewashed, and so he will be sorely tested yet again.

So what do you guys think the team will be on Monday?

Well the Lions match should give a pretty strong clue. The top 5 is set, Cook Kp Trott Morgan Bedwetter
The bowlers is a bit more open.
Patel playing in this game suggests hes strongly favoured as the second spinner/number 6/useless waste of a space in the team
Broad obviously will play, as will Swann.
Youd assume Bresnan at 8

So 10/11 ..Anderson Dernbach and Finn. Well Finn and Dernbach really stuck their hands up in this game. they certainly give some variation, but would the pitch have enough in it to justify Finn Broad and Bresnan? Dernbach is the specialist dead pitch bowler. England dont have the players or the mentality to go with 3 spinners.
I dont see England going with 4 bowlers + Patel. they have plenty of batting down the order, and lots of guys capable off making rapid runs at the end of the innings.

Im not convinced by Patel as a batsman or a bowler, but it looks pretty certain he will play.

jimbohammers wrote:So what do you guys think the team will be on Monday?

I think they will go with 1 Cook (c) 2 Pietersen 3 Trott 4 Morgan 5 Kieswetter (wk) 6 Buttler 7 Patel 8 Bresnan 9 Swann 10 Broad 11 Finn

My choice would be 1 Cook (c) 2 Kieswetter (wk) 3 Pietersen 4 Trott 5 Morgan 6 Buttler 7 Patel 8 Bresnan 9 Broad 10 Swann 11 Anderson