Team of round 2

A bit easier since there was only 2 games, but here's my take on the team of round 2:

1 - Gethin Jenkins
Not many standouts here but he had a solid performance and didn't make any mistakes

2 - Ross Ford
Perfect lineout and some good carries

3 - Dan Cole
Tamed the Italian scrums and even got the nudge on some times.

4 - Richie Gray
What more can be said about this colossus? Still only 22 as well.

5 - Tom Palmer
None of the number 5's stood out, so given it to Palmer for a olid lineout performance

6 - Lydiate
Given MOTM after a solid defensive shift

7 - Ross Rennie
Outstanding performance again and is currently the top performing 7 in the tournament IMO. Good in attack, solid in defence, and ripped the ball in the tackle again. Great performance!

8 - Dave Denton
Not as stand out as last week but some absolutely bruising carries and strong in defence. Honourable mention for Ben Morgan

9 - Lee Dickson
Really increased the temp for England when he came on.

10 - Charlie Hodgson
Another charge down try and solid performance

11 - Alex Cuthburt
Made up for North's absence with strong running

12 - Jamie Roberts
Made the gain line with every carry

13 - Owen Farrell
Didn't do much with the ball but kicked his goals well. No one else stood out really.

14 - Lee Halfpenny
My MOTM yesterday with well taken tries and good kicking

15 - Stuart Hogg
Fantastic impact off the bench and some great running from the 19 year old. Got to start now!

No Italians but 5 Englishmen? I thought Parisse was the best player on the pitch.

Not enough Irish players either....

Corbisiero has to be in there for me instead of Jenkins

didn't cuthbert play at 14 and Halfpenny at 15?

That leaves 11 open.

also as far as Hodgson is concnenred, I would put Priestland in his place.

Sorry and although Denton had a very good game, I thought Parisse was brilliant.

Priestland was cack on Sat. Hodgson is cack. 1/2p went on the wing after North went off - Wake up Bilton!!!!! Maybe the scottish 10 should get the out half position.

Rubyguby, so you missed Priestland's line break, his clean break and his offload, his tactical kicking was much better than last weekend. Laidlaw was not good in the first 40.

Benvenutti was a far better 13 than Farrell. Showed some serious pace after the interception to out run the English chacers and dive over. Agree about Parisse, shame about Castro going off as he seemed to be all over Corbs in the scrums. Corbs was standing up quite a bit to try and get away from the the pressure, he was lucky to not give a couple of penalties away really.

Dickson had a great ten minutes and then disappeared for the last 20. Any of the scrum halves in other game showed more tbh. Charlie's skills for the day went as far as a charge down, I don't think he ran a single backs move other than to spin it down the line.

RubyGuby wrote:Priestland was cack on Sat. :

I don't know where he was on Saturday, but Priestland was very, very good yesterday.

I didn't see the Wales game but from the England match I thought the following players had very good games:

England: Hodgson, Foden, Barritt, Robshaw

Italy: Ghiraldini, Canale, Parisse, Cittadini

I was also impressed by Benevenuti and Croft but maybe not to same extent as the others.

red_stag wrote:I didn't see the Wales game but from the England match I thought the following players had very good games:

England: Hodgson, Foden, Barritt, Robshaw

Italy: Ghiraldini, Canale, Parisse, Cittadini

I was also impressed by Benevenuti and Croft but maybe not to same extent as the others.

Staggy, do you really mean Ben '2 Italian tries' Foden?!

formerly known as Sam wrote:Benvenutti was a far better 13 than Farrell. Showed some serious pace after the interception to out run the English chacers and dive over. Agree about Parisse, shame about Castro going off as he seemed to be all over Corbs in the scrums. Corbs was standing up quite a bit to try and get away from the the pressure, he was lucky to not give a couple of penalties away really.

Dickson had a great ten minutes and then disappeared for the last 20. Any of the scrum halves in other game showed more tbh. Charlie's skills for the day went as far as a charge down, I don't think he ran a single backs move other than to spin it down the line.

What game were you watching man? Take your Tigers tinted specs of mate, Corbs was more than matching Castro in the scrum, and Dickson was very good during his time on the pitch.


Also, to the OP, Farrell played at 12, so not sure what he's doing at 13 here.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

red_stag wrote:I didn't see the Wales game but from the England match I thought the following players had very good games:

England: Hodgson, Foden, Barritt, Robshaw

Italy: Ghiraldini, Canale, Parisse, Cittadini

I was also impressed by Benevenuti and Croft but maybe not to same extent as the others.

Staggy, do you really mean Ben '2 Italian tries' Foden?!

Foden actually had a decent game. There was very little he could have done about the first try, as the ball came off another players foot like a rocket into his chest from close range.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

red_stag wrote:I didn't see the Wales game but from the England match I thought the following players had very good games:

England: Hodgson, Foden, Barritt, Robshaw

Italy: Ghiraldini, Canale, Parisse, Cittadini

I was also impressed by Benevenuti and Croft but maybe not to same extent as the others.

Staggy, do you really mean Ben '2 Italian tries' Foden?!

Ah yea the offload was an issue but IMO the first try was a direct inability by whole English backline to deal with as series of grubber kicks.

He made up for his intercept elsewhere I felt but sounds like your boy Hogg was best 15. As I said I only saw this match.

Foden was Italy's best player. He's really got to work on his defensive game if he wants to be considered at 15 for the Lions.

Ozzy3213 wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

red_stag wrote:I didn't see the Wales game but from the England match I thought the following players had very good games:

England: Hodgson, Foden, Barritt, Robshaw

Italy: Ghiraldini, Canale, Parisse, Cittadini

I was also impressed by Benevenuti and Croft but maybe not to same extent as the others.

Staggy, do you really mean Ben '2 Italian tries' Foden?!

Foden actually had a decent game. There was very little he could have done about the first try, as the ball came off another players foot like a rocket into his chest from close range.

Pete, can't agree, thought much of his kicking was aimless

I thought Priestland's kicking out of hand was poor but being as a few of you suggest he had a good game I'll have a rethink and watch again - My bar for the lad is set quite high so maybe have to adjust my bar-ometer a bit, same for JD.

Yeah, Ruby, wake up and watch it again.

Did you think so Asbo. I thought aside from the intercept pass that he threw, he had a fairly good game overall.

biltongbek wrote:Yeah, Ruby, wake up and watch it again.

You talking bout the England matches

10-Priestland
8-Parisse
5-Ryan Jones
9- Phillips or Blair. Both did more than Dickson.

red_stag wrote:I didn't see the Wales game but from the England match I thought the following players had very good games:

England: Hodgson, Foden, Barritt, Robshaw

Italy: Ghiraldini, Canale, Parisse, Cittadini

I was also impressed by Benevenuti and Croft but maybe not to same extent as the others.

You need glasses mate he was cack

As a bit of perspective - players in BOLD selected for both XV's

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16016_7517998,00.html

15 Leigh Halfpenny (Wales) *
14 Alex Cuthbert (Wales) *
13 Jonathan Davies (Wales)
12 Owen Farrell (England) *
11 Stuart Hogg (Scotland) *
10 Rhys Priestland (Wales) *
9 Lee Dickson (England) *
8 Sergio Parisse (Italy) *
7 Chris Robshaw (England)
6 Dan Lydiate (Wales) *
5 Ryan Jones (Wales) *
4 Richie Gray (Scotland) *
3 Lorenzo Cittadini (Italy
2 Ross Ford (Scotland)
1 Gethin Jenkins (Wales)

http://www.espnscrum.com/six-nations-2012/rugby/story/159472.html
15. Leigh Halfpenny (Wales)
14. Alex Cuthbert (Wales)
13. Owen Farrell (England)
12. Jamie Roberts (Wales)
11. Stuart Hogg (Scotland)
10. Rhys Priestland (Wales)
9. Lee Dickson (England)
8. Sergio Parisse (Italy)
7. Ross Rennie (Scotland)
6. Dan Lydiate (Wales)
5. Richie Gray (Scotland)
4. Ryan Jones (Wales)
3. Dan Cole (England)
2. Ken Owens (Wales)
1. Allan Jacobsen (Scotland)

Ken Owens? Please.

miteyironpaw wrote:Ken Owens? Please.

Apparently

"Ross Ford performed adequately for Scotland but after Huw Bennett's injury, Owens stabilised the lineout and was solid around the breakdown. "

Did nobody else thing Ghiraldini for Italy had a good match at hooker?

Parisse - made 9 tackles and missed 1

Falatau - made 22 tackles and missed 1.

Guess who the media yet again have a spurt over?

Corbs was more than matching Castro in the scrum

By standing up at every scrum?

and Dickson was very good during his time on the pitch.

For ten minutes he looked world class, for 20 minutes I forgot he was there. Admittedly the conditions and the attacking options available to him weren't great.

your boy Hogg was best 15.

We on earth did he not start, I know he's only 19 but he was a cut above the rest of the Scottish backline in terms of step and speed.

Chunky, not disagreeing, but that's a single statistic you're basing your view on?

Parisse - tackles made: 9/missed: 1, metres run: 61
Faletau - tackles made: 22/missed: 1, metres run: 29
Denton - tackles made: 3/missed: 1, metres run: 67

Some odd decisions being made here. This would be my take on things:

1.Jenkins 2.Ford 3.Cole 4.Gray 5.Jones 6.Lydiate 7.Rennie 8.Falatau 9.Dickson 10.Priestland 11.Halfpenny 12.Roberts 13.Benevenuti 14.Cuthbert 15.Hogg

Lock is a tough one, no real standout performers other than Gray, and 8 is a tough contest between Parisse and Falatau, but Parisse made some silly errors whereas Falatau was tirelessly excellent for Wales, so he gets the nod. Both Dickson and Blair came on and made good impact so it was a straight call between those two for 9. Priestland the best 10 of the weekend, and Benevenuti was comfortably more impressive in general play than Owen Farrell. The back three was easy.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Chunky, not disagreeing, but that's a single statistic you're basing your view on?

Parisse - tackles made: 9/missed: 1, metres run: 61
Faletau - tackles made: 22/missed: 1, metres run: 29
Denton - tackles made: 3/missed: 1, metres run: 67

Just highlighting that Parisse is a good solid player but nowhere near the player the media make him out to be. He's a thug and is highly, highly overated. But the mdia love him therefore he gets alot of praise.

I was disappointed by Denton's performance in defence. He didn't put hiself about like an 8 should. He's a good carrier, as is Parisse.

In terms of impact, I'd say that Blair would edge Dickson for the scrumhalf berth.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Chunky, not disagreeing, but that's a single statistic you're basing your view on?

Parisse - tackles made: 9/missed: 1, metres run: 61
Faletau - tackles made: 22/missed: 1, metres run: 29
Denton - tackles made: 3/missed: 1, metres run: 67

Parisse was tackling Englishmen though, so you could multiply that by three to be fair Did he last the whole game? What's the comparison on minutes for those tackles? Didn't Parisse go off early? I know he was still on when I was lulled into a coma by the quality of the game, but I think something about him leaving the field has entered my brain by osmosis.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Chunky, not disagreeing, but that's a single statistic you're basing your view on?

Parisse - tackles made: 9/missed: 1, metres run: 61
Faletau - tackles made: 22/missed: 1, metres run: 29
Denton - tackles made: 3/missed: 1, metres run: 67

Just highlighting that Parisse is a good solid player but nowhere near the player the media make him out to be. He's a thug and is highly, highly overated. But the mdia love him therefore he gets alot of praise.

I was disappointed by Denton's performance in defence. He didn't put hiself about like an 8 should. He's a good carrier, as is Parisse.

The comment in bold is one of the strangest posts I can recall. Denton did everything a number 8 is expected to do. I seriously don't know what you expect from number 8s if you think Parisee, and Denton in particular didn't put himself about like and 8 should.

miteyironpaw wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Chunky, not disagreeing, but that's a single statistic you're basing your view on?

Parisse - tackles made: 9/missed: 1, metres run: 61
Faletau - tackles made: 22/missed: 1, metres run: 29
Denton - tackles made: 3/missed: 1, metres run: 67

Parisse was tackling Englishmen though, so you could multiply that by three to be fair Did he last the whole game? What's the comparison on minutes for those tackles? Didn't Parisse go off early? I know he was still on when I was lulled into a coma by the quality of the game, but I think something about him leaving the field has entered my brain by osmosis.

And what is that as a proportion of the total number of tackles made by the relevant teams? You can't penalise a guy in your evaluation for not making enough tackles, if the opposition didn't run a lot of possession...surely. Well, you could of course, but would it be valid?

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

The comment in bold is one of the strangest posts I can recall. Denton did everything a number 8 is expected to do. I seriously don't know what you expect from number 8s if you think Parisee, and Denton in particular didn't put himself about like and 8 should.

There were only 2 players on the pitch who made less tackles than Denton. Evans the wing, who went off and Cross the prop. You may think it's strange that a backrow gets criticised for lack of tackling I don't.

Thats what wins games. Backrows tackling their socks off. Denton didn't.

[quote="Chunky Norwich"]

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Thats what wins games. Backrows tackling their socks off. Denton didn't.

I thought it was scoring more points than the opposition.

There were only 2 players on the pitch who made less tackles than Denton. Evans the wing, who went off and Cross the prop. You may think it's strange that a backrow gets criticised for lack of tackling I don't.

It's because Scotland use Denton as the sweeper instead of the scrum half unlike most teams. As seen when he makes the hit on Strettle after the cross field kick from Hodgson, Denton is coming round and following the play like the 9 usually does as a back up to the 15. He's not a key breakdown defender like Faletau is for Wales.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

The comment in bold is one of the strangest posts I can recall. Denton did everything a number 8 is expected to do. I seriously don't know what you expect from number 8s if you think Parisee, and Denton in particular didn't put himself about like and 8 should.

There were only 2 players on the pitch who made less tackles than Denton. Evans the wing, who went off and Cross the prop. You may think it's strange that a backrow gets criticised for lack of tackling I don't.

Thats what wins games. Backrows tackling their socks off. Denton didn't.

Not wanting to call your rugby knowlege into question or patronise you but the backrow has little to do with "tackling your socks off" The backrow is all about doing your job relative to your position.

6. Blindside flanker should be all about the gritty tackling and a wee bit of carrying.
7. Openside Flanker should typically be the fetcher, scrapping for the ball on the deck, winning turnovers and penalties.
8. Usually the prime carrier who makes the hard yards from the base of the Scrum and a link man for the backs.

Best example of this kind of unit : Kaino, McCaw and Read

Read isn't exactly renowned for Tackling his socks off, he puts in a tackler's shift no doubt but it is his carries he is renowned for.

Sam hits the nail on the head re Denton. He makes his takcles when the breakthrough is threatened rather than at the fringes of the rucks.

An example of how not to defend the fringes would be best illustrated by Laidlaw's try against Wales.

Except that usually Kaino carries more than McCaw or Read, and McCaw generally out-tackles the other two when not nursing a literally screwed foot. NZ also have Mealamu and Hore who play like hybrid flankers, particularly Hore when he comes on. I think using NZ as an example is reaching slightly in the case of Wales, their whole front 8 are so versatile and athletic.

Teams use backrow players differently.

Looking at basic stats is a completely hopeless way of deciding whether a player played well or not.

Denton had a very good game yesterday. No-one with a clue about rugby could dispute that.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Chunky, not disagreeing, but that's a single statistic you're basing your view on?

Parisse - tackles made: 9/missed: 1, metres run: 61
Faletau - tackles made: 22/missed: 1, metres run: 29
Denton - tackles made: 3/missed: 1, metres run: 67

Just highlighting that Parisse is a good solid player but nowhere near the player the media make him out to be. He's a thug and is highly, highly overated. But the mdia love him therefore he gets alot of praise.

I was disappointed by Denton's performance in defence. He didn't put hiself about like an 8 should. He's a good carrier, as is Parisse.

Not sure if i agree he's a thug but he did go a long way down in my estimation for the pathetic prima donna antics milking a penalty of Croft, as it Croft could flatten anything! Must have been a sniper in the stadium. It was truely one of the most depressing things i've seen on a rugby pitch. Were he Welsh, English etc i'm sure he'd have been castigated on here but for some reason it seems to get ignored.

biltongbek wrote:Sorry and although Denton had a very good game, I thought Parisse was brilliant.

Parisse did make a few mistakes and got tunred over - more than his usual best

funnyExiledScot wrote: No-one with a clue about rugby could dispute that.

Shoite, fES, you've just ruled out nearly half the posters on here

I don't get the buzz about Faletau, I can see he works quite hard but I expect a 6 to be doing the sort of discreet dog work that Faletau seems to do. I expect to see an 8 making yards like Denton and Parisse did over the weekend, like Jamie Heaslip is renowned for or Piccamoles for France. I am not saying that he isn't a good player, because he wouldn't be in the side over Jones and Powell if he wasn't good enough... but I just don't see what is so eye catching that many 606ers and some of the commentators like to rave about and suggest he is a stick on for the Lions 8.

What am I missing here? I'd have him way behind Heaslip and perhaps I am biased, but behind Denton too on current form. Rugby is a tactical game and you need options and Faletau offers something a bit different to those two, so I don't mean to suggest he won't get a call up. I just don't see the big fuss. What should I be looking for in his remaining games?

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote: No-one with a clue about rugby could dispute that.

Shoite, fES, you've just ruled out nearly half the posters on here

Naughty

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Not wanting to call your rugby knowlege into question or patronise you but the backrow has little to do with "tackling your socks off" The backrow is all about doing your job relative to your position.

6. Blindside flanker should be all about the gritty tackling and a wee bit of carrying.
7. Openside Flanker should typically be the fetcher, scrapping for the ball on the deck, winning turnovers and penalties.
8. Usually the prime carrier who makes the hard yards from the base of the Scrum and a link man for the backs.

You've just dscriebd backrow rugby in the 90s.

I was at the game and am just calling it as I see it. He's great going forward, is a bit of a nusance at ruck time. Which is good. I just dont' think he played that welld efensively.

Redrage wrote:

What am I missing here? I'd have him way behind Heaslip and perhaps I am biased, ?

Look at his work rate. Look at where he is on the field - In the battle. all the time. In their faces, tackling, pushing their attack back. Being an absolute niusance.

Not out on the wing or in the centres like the other bloke you mentioned.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Look at his work rate. Look at where he is on the field - In the battle. all the time. In their faces, tackling, pushing their attack back. Being an absolute niusance.

Not out on the wing or in the centres like the other bloke you mentioned.

I suppose it is a matter of opinion... I expect my 8 to be more of an attacking threat than a defensive master, not that they should be mutually exclusive. Perhaps my view is a bit outdated and it should really be about the combined package that the back row offer. Has Faletau always played at No.8?

Redrage wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Look at his work rate. Look at where he is on the field - In the battle. all the time. In their faces, tackling, pushing their attack back. Being an absolute niusance.

Not out on the wing or in the centres like the other bloke you mentioned.

I suppose it is a matter of opinion... I expect my 8 to be more of an attacking threat than a defensive master, not that they should be mutually exclusive. Perhaps my view is a bit outdated and it should really be about the combined package that the back row offer. Has Faletau always played at No.8?

Yeah 6 or 8. To be honset, he's so dynamic, he'd probably be good at emergency 7 cover.

The backrow these days have become so defensively oriented. The key to Wales' improvement in the last 12 months ahs been the amount of fringe defence that the backrow puts in. It really is. Lydiate, Falatau and Warburton stop attacks before they even happen. That really is what wins games.