Something which appears to have gone unnoticed...

...in this weekend's fracas is the claim made by David Haye to the K Bros camp that he did in fact agree to all terms set by them and that they had reneged on a deal for him to fight Vitali. Adam Booth's comments at the end of some video footage directed at Boente would appear to suggest that there may be some validity in Haye's claim.

Could it be that the myth of the K's being honourable and a "class act" turn out to be nothing more than a carefully crafted deception?

Well, I disagree that it's "Carefully crafted deception" and more like Vitali realised he could fight other people for generally the same amount of money seeing as Haye lost most credibility against Wlad and all PPV and that Haye should have realistically had to rebuild before another title shot. But does seem to be the actual case the Vitalis team pulled out which is strange, and the way Adam Booth was going on Boente it would appear it is true.

Are you stirring the pot?

Could it be that Haye and Booth were shamelessly trying to promote their tired old bandwagon - distinctly lacking in wheels after the fight with Wladimir?

If this was confirmed by anyone but Booth and Haye - I'd agree. However the 2 of them are classless boors - and have lied to us all on numerous occasions.

I find it difficult to believe a word either man says.

If Haye and Booth said it then it must be true!

Evening, Dave.

Personally, when it comes to the subject of the Klitschkos, I don't believe a word that comes out of either Haye or Booth's mouth. The two of them have blown so much smoke up our rear ends on that subect over the last three years it's almost unreal.

Like it or not, the record books show that only one of the three has a track record of pulling out of fights when they are set between them, and it sure as hell isn't Wladimir or Vitali. I don't think it's ever really been Haye's plan to have it out with Vitali, and given the various reasons / excuses he offered before finally signing to fight Wladimir, my sympathy for him or trust in his words has long since vanished.

I recall an interview when Booth invited the K's promoter to show everyone the contract they wanted Haye to sign. The guy went ashen and said no. Booth went on about wanted a public and open negotiations and the guy said no. What was he hiding.

The guys offer slave contracts.

88Chris05 wrote:Evening, Dave.

Personally, when it comes to the subject of the Klitschkos, I don't believe a word that comes out of either Haye or Booth's mouth. The two of them have blown so much smoke up our rear ends on that subect over the last three years it's almost unreal.

Like it or not, the record books show that only one of the three has a track record of pulling out of fights when they are set between them, and it sure as hell isn't Wladimir or Vitali. I don't think it's ever really been Haye's plan to have it out with Vitali, and given the various reasons / excuses he offered before finally signing to fight Wladimir, my sympathy for him or trust in his words has long since vanished.

Didn't Wlad mess chisora about also? Claiming an injury only to fight Mormeck later (after another postponement). Those guys are dodgy.

azania wrote:I recall an interview when Booth invited the K's promoter to show everyone the contract they wanted Haye to sign. The guy went ashen and said no. Booth went on about wanted a public and open negotiations and the guy said no. What was he hiding.

The guys offer slave contracts.

Not as quiet and ashen as Booth went when Boente suggested Vitali as an opponent

azania wrote:The guys offer slave contracts.

If you keep saying it, maybe it will come true.

So Wlad pulling out of the Chisora fight justifies Haye ducking out of Wladimir - to fight Audley.

Wlad pulled on the Chisora fight - paying him cancellation money as well - to sign that fight with Haye.

Haye and Booth have lied to the British public throughout the affair - and only a very, very biased man would believe a word they say.

azania wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:Evening, Dave.

Personally, when it comes to the subject of the Klitschkos, I don't believe a word that comes out of either Haye or Booth's mouth. The two of them have blown so much smoke up our rear ends on that subect over the last three years it's almost unreal.

Like it or not, the record books show that only one of the three has a track record of pulling out of fights when they are set between them, and it sure as hell isn't Wladimir or Vitali. I don't think it's ever really been Haye's plan to have it out with Vitali, and given the various reasons / excuses he offered before finally signing to fight Wladimir, my sympathy for him or trust in his words has long since vanished.

Didn't Wlad mess chisora about also? Claiming an injury only to fight Mormeck later (after another postponement). Those guys are dodgy.

Chisora lost to Fury. Thats why Wlad ended up fighting Mormeck.

manos de piedra wrote:

azania wrote:I recall an interview when Booth invited the K's promoter to show everyone the contract they wanted Haye to sign. The guy went ashen and said no. Booth went on about wanted a public and open negotiations and the guy said no. What was he hiding.

The guys offer slave contracts.

Not as quiet and ashen as Booth went when Boente suggested Vitali as an opponent

Ha. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. If only he fought Vit and not the better fighting brother.

J.Benson II wrote:

azania wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:Evening, Dave.

Personally, when it comes to the subject of the Klitschkos, I don't believe a word that comes out of either Haye or Booth's mouth. The two of them have blown so much smoke up our rear ends on that subect over the last three years it's almost unreal.

Like it or not, the record books show that only one of the three has a track record of pulling out of fights when they are set between them, and it sure as hell isn't Wladimir or Vitali. I don't think it's ever really been Haye's plan to have it out with Vitali, and given the various reasons / excuses he offered before finally signing to fight Wladimir, my sympathy for him or trust in his words has long since vanished.

Didn't Wlad mess chisora about also? Claiming an injury only to fight Mormeck later (after another postponement). Those guys are dodgy.

Chisora lost to Fury. Thats why Wlad ended up fighting Mormeck.

He messed him about cancelling twice before he lost to Fury. Dont do the revisionist stuff.

If Vitali gets no more money for fighting Haye than anyone else due to lack of PPV but has repeatedly expressed his desire to fight Haye and Haye has agreed terms then why pick Chisora? At this stage there appear to be no challengers left, so Vitali can exorcise a few demons and beat up Haye.

Haye clearly wants another title shot without all that pesky "earning it" business and appears to have agreed terms but still no fight announced. If this was all about Vitali wanting to punish Haye the fight would be a done deal already.

Methinks the K's want Haye to face a few challengers first so they can claim their cut of any PPV a winning streak from Haye would possibly generate and they don't have to lift a finger.

If haye had done the business and used his fists to finish wlad he could have had all the aces up his sleeve. instead he played duck duck goose and now can mouth of all he bloody well likes. Nobody will listen.

First time cancellation due to a certificated back injury. Second time cancelled to fight Haye and paid step aside money. Chisora would have had his shot had he not turned up 20 pounds overweight and been roundly and soundly outboxed by Fury.

Those are facts.

What's the excuse for Haye's finalise contract - then back out for Valuev - finalise contract then pull out with a fake injury, - enter negotiations - then pull out to fight Audley.

Frankly - I know which I prefer.

oxring wrote:First time cancellation due to a certificated back injury. Second time cancelled to fight Haye and paid step aside money. Chisora would have had his shot had he not turned up 20 pounds overweight and been roundly and soundly outboxed by Fury.

Those are facts.

What's the excuse for Haye's finalise contract - then back out for Valuev - finalise contract then pull out with a fake injury, - enter negotiations - then pull out to fight Audley.

Frankly - I know which I prefer.

So Hayes was a fake injury but Wlads wasn't?

I don't like the way Haye went about things but because Wlad isn't as bad as him doesn't mean he's an angel either.

azania wrote:

J.Benson II wrote:

azania wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:Evening, Dave.

Personally, when it comes to the subject of the Klitschkos, I don't believe a word that comes out of either Haye or Booth's mouth. The two of them have blown so much smoke up our rear ends on that subect over the last three years it's almost unreal.

Like it or not, the record books show that only one of the three has a track record of pulling out of fights when they are set between them, and it sure as hell isn't Wladimir or Vitali. I don't think it's ever really been Haye's plan to have it out with Vitali, and given the various reasons / excuses he offered before finally signing to fight Wladimir, my sympathy for him or trust in his words has long since vanished.

Didn't Wlad mess chisora about also? Claiming an injury only to fight Mormeck later (after another postponement). Those guys are dodgy.

Chisora lost to Fury. Thats why Wlad ended up fighting Mormeck.

He messed him about cancelling twice before he lost to Fury. Dont do the revisionist stuff.

Yes, but he would have fought Chisora instead of Mormeck but the former not totally disgraced himself against Fury.
Chisora was messed around originally. Then again, he hadnt done anything to merit a title shot in the first place.

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:The guys offer slave contracts.

If you keep saying it, maybe it will come true.

So Wlad pulling out of the Chisora fight justifies Haye ducking out of Wladimir - to fight Audley.

Wlad pulled on the Chisora fight - paying him cancellation money as well - to sign that fight with Haye.

Haye and Booth have lied to the British public throughout the affair - and only a very, very biased man would believe a word they say.

You're begining to develop this habit of putting words in my mouth.

Bottom line is those brothers are not as clean cut as they try to sell themselves as.

Haye/Booth lied? What did they say that was a lie. Are you privvy to the contract negotiations?

oxring wrote:First time cancellation due to a certificated back injury. Second time cancelled to fight Haye and paid step aside money. Chisora would have had his shot had he not turned up 20 pounds overweight and been roundly and soundly outboxed by Fury.

Those are facts.

What's the excuse for Haye's finalise contract - then back out for Valuev - finalise contract then pull out with a fake injury, - enter negotiations - then pull out to fight Audley.

Frankly - I know which I prefer.

Unbelievable. Give it a rest man. Haye's injury was also certified yet he still gets chastised for that. But you believe Wlad. Unbelievable. Laughable actually.

There was no genuine injury apart from the toe - he legged it because setanta flopped

That's not putting words into your mouth. Someone pointed out that Haye has form with pulling out of fights with Klitschko's. You countered with the childish "Wlad pulled out of a fight with Chisora".

I'll say that everything Haye/Booth said in the run up to Audley was a lie. Also the back injury. I hear those Setanta sprains are the worst.

azania wrote:

oxring wrote:First time cancellation due to a certificated back injury. Second time cancelled to fight Haye and paid step aside money. Chisora would have had his shot had he not turned up 20 pounds overweight and been roundly and soundly outboxed by Fury.

Those are facts.

What's the excuse for Haye's finalise contract - then back out for Valuev - finalise contract then pull out with a fake injury, - enter negotiations - then pull out to fight Audley.

Frankly - I know which I prefer.

Unbelievable. Give it a rest man. Haye's injury was also certified yet he still gets chastised for that. But you believe Wlad. Unbelievable. Laughable actually.

Haye's injury was NOT certified, I believe Az. I'd let him off if it was, obviously.

Fairly sure that Haye saw a specialist Oxy who advised him to postpone the fight.

It was an accountant

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Fairly sure that Haye saw a specialist Oxy who advised him to postpone the fight.

Don't think he got written certification Ghosty - I'd honestly let him off that injury if he did. You can pay a private physician to "advise" anything you want them to - but to be failed by the commission doctor requires more effort - and I don't think he went to that effort.

If you can show me evidence of his certification - I will happily retract my prior point.

ShahenshahG wrote:It was an accountant

And you'd have fought him for free eh Shah?

Not at all - I would have told everyone that I wont get paid If I fight and that any tickets would be refunded in full.

Hayes injury was bs but in fairness he was done for without Setanta he would have had to fight for a pittance. I dont blame him for pulling out of that one. However he turned tail from negotiations after and went to Valuev who also had options over him. Smart business decision but blatantly a case of going for an easier option.

Wlads injury was dodgy aswell but Haye was threatning to retire if Wlad followed through with the fight. Wlad was damned if he did and damned if he didnt. You can imagine how the Klitschko bashers would have gone on had Wlad honoured the Chisora fight and Haye ended up retiring and not fighting him.

I dont believe either Klitschko ever felt they had anything to fear from Haye. The first Klitschko fight should have exploded that myth last year. Haye is a waffler. His credibility is shot. We have quite literally seen what he is doing before. Its 3 years ago all over again except Haye has less to offer.

ShahenshahG wrote:Not at all - I would have told everyone that I wont get paid If I fight and that any tickets would be refunded in full.

With all due respect...that's balls and you know it!

ShahenshahG wrote:There was no genuine injury apart from the toe - he legged it because setanta flopped

Yeah but he has a certified doctors note.....as does Wlad. Wlad pulled out because of a stomach upset.

I would. I'd say setanta promised me this much money - they cant deliver it and now i cant afford to go through with this fight because this could be my only chance to score it big. I'll fight him another day and refund all non vip tickets. I won't fake an injury because that is bull and it wont be belived anyway.

manos de piedra wrote:Hayes injury was bs but in fairness he was done for without Setanta he would have had to fight for a pittance. I dont blame him for pulling out of that one. However he turned tail from negotiations after and went to Valuev who also had options over him. Smart business decision but blatantly a case of going for an easier option.

Wlads injury was dodgy aswell but Haye was threatning to retire if Wlad followed through with the fight. Wlad was damned if he did and damned if he didnt. You can imagine how the Klitschko bashers would have gone on had Wlad honoured the Chisora fight and Haye ended up retiring and not fighting him.

I dont believe either Klitschko ever felt they had anything to fear from Haye. The first Klitschko fight should have exploded that myth last year. Haye is a waffler. His credibility is shot. We have quite literally seen what he is doing before. Its 3 years ago all over again except Haye has less to offer.

Haye and Vitali's team agreed on a deal then the Klitschko's back tracked on it like the liars they are so Haye faced Valuev...Dont see how Haye and Booth have lied.

Fact is so many opponents have complained about how the Klitschkos give out slave contracts.

azania wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:There was no genuine injury apart from the toe - he legged it because setanta flopped

Yeah but he has a certified doctors note.....as does Wlad. Wlad pulled out because of a stomach upset.

No az - he hasn't. I'm pretty certain Haye did not have a certified doctors note from the commission. Else I'd let him off.

ShahenshahG wrote:I would. I'd say setanta promised me this much money - they cant deliver it and now i cant afford to go through with this fight because this could be my only chance to score it big. I'll fight him another day and refund all non vip tickets. I won't fake an injury because that is bull and it wont be belived anyway.

Thats not the point. They both have doctor;s certificate to say they were injured. One is believd the other is not.

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:There was no genuine injury apart from the toe - he legged it because setanta flopped

Yeah but he has a certified doctors note.....as does Wlad. Wlad pulled out because of a stomach upset.

No az - he hasn't. I'm pretty certain Haye did not have a certified doctors note from the commission. Else I'd let him off.

He does and showed it on TV. Very apologetic and contrite.

ShahenshahG wrote:I would. I'd say setanta promised me this much money - they cant deliver it and now i cant afford to go through with this fight because this could be my only chance to score it big. I'll fight him another day and refund all non vip tickets. I won't fake an injury because that is bull and it wont be belived anyway.

I refer the right honourable gentleman to my previous answer.

azania wrote:

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:There was no genuine injury apart from the toe - he legged it because setanta flopped

Yeah but he has a certified doctors note.....as does Wlad. Wlad pulled out because of a stomach upset.

No az - he hasn't. I'm pretty certain Haye did not have a certified doctors note from the commission. Else I'd let him off.

He does and showed it on TV. Very apologetic and contrite.

If you can show that clip - I'd like to see it - because as far as I can tell - no certified commission note ever came forward. He was very apologetic and contrite - but that's all I can say for him.

The injury was BS - and was due to Setanta folding a week later. Thought that was relatively universally accepted.

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:There was no genuine injury apart from the toe - he legged it because setanta flopped

Yeah but he has a certified doctors note.....as does Wlad. Wlad pulled out because of a stomach upset.

No az - he hasn't. I'm pretty certain Haye did not have a certified doctors note from the commission. Else I'd let him off.

He does and showed it on TV. Very apologetic and contrite.

If you can show that clip - I'd like to see it - because as far as I can tell - no certified commission note ever came forward. He was very apologetic and contrite - but that's all I can say for him.

I think it was on a setanta interview. But I do recall seeing it. In my opinion he paid the doc to give that note for obvious reasons. Nothing to do with ducking and he would have told K2 of that.

azania wrote:

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:There was no genuine injury apart from the toe - he legged it because setanta flopped

Yeah but he has a certified doctors note.....as does Wlad. Wlad pulled out because of a stomach upset.

No az - he hasn't. I'm pretty certain Haye did not have a certified doctors note from the commission. Else I'd let him off.

He does and showed it on TV. Very apologetic and contrite.

If you can show that clip - I'd like to see it - because as far as I can tell - no certified commission note ever came forward. He was very apologetic and contrite - but that's all I can say for him.

I think it was on a setanta interview. But I do recall seeing it. In my opinion he paid the doc to give that note for obvious reasons. Nothing to do with ducking and he would have told K2 of that.

To be certified - there should be commission involvement - as I remember - there wasn't. He provided a statement of a doctor's opinion saying "stop the fight".

In actuality - Manos' point is correct - both were bogus cancellation's - Haye due to Setanta and Wladimir due to Haye.

However - there's a common theme in fights getting mucked around - and its Haye.

You asked earlier when Booth had lied to us. Easy - when claiming that Chisora had hit him with glassware after the brawl - when we can clearly see that his own charge, Haye, had tired of his sanctimonious claptrap and decided to end it with a tripod once and for all.

Good grief. Wlad pulls out and you blame for it!

Chisora said Haye glassed him. In the heat of the moment, many things are said which are incorrect. I wouldn;t say a lie. But I was more referring to the K2 negotiations.

Booth didn't lie...He asked Chisora who hit him...It was a misunderstanding not a lie.

I cant believe you just used that as an example oxy you really are something else.

You really hate Haye dont you.

Not blame az, not blame. Wlad had to back out because Haye was promising to retire remember?

Haye had to pull out because Setanta were about to fold. Still didn't mean that he got a certifiable back injury.

Exactly azania I cant believe oxy just used that as a example of Booth lies when it was CLEARLY a misunderstanding.

Nice try oxy but try again.

The genius of PBF wrote:Booth didn't lie...He asked Chisora who hit him...It was a misunderstanding not a lie.

My words there should be read with a degree of levity PBF. Lies are as I said earlier - everything that came out of the Haye camp in the run up to Audley Harrison. Or are you forgetting that?

I must admit I'm struggling a little. 2 heavyweights brawl at a press conference - and the majority of the blame lies with the one who doesn't resort to using weapons and the 2 who don't get involved share the rest of the guilt?

Its a slightly strange starting point for a reasoned discussion don't you think?

As for Haye - I don't hate the man. As a boxer - I believe he is overrated and that he promised much and delivered little. As a HW - I don't believe that his resume holds up to any scrutiny whatsoever - and after Chisora's brave performance I don't believe he was entitled to any further self promotion.

Anything there seem unfair to you?

I cant be bothered to keep breaking it in baby chunks for you oxy...Your dislike of Haye clouds your judgement.

I think you bought all his ppvs and was heartbroken by his defeat to Wlad.

Thats funny didn't Chisora hold up a bottle?...Haye vs the entire Chisora team...Haye had only little Booth as back up.

Give me a link to these lies I have forgotten.

Anyways im off all this Haye Chisora Klit talk is boring me now.

oxring wrote:Not blame az, not blame. Wlad had to back out because Haye was promising to retire remember?

Haye had to pull out because Setanta were about to fold. Still didn't mean that he got a certifiable back injury.

wlad could have called bluff.

The genius of PBF wrote:I cant be bothered to keep breaking it in baby chunks for you oxy...Your dislike of Haye clouds your judgement.

I think you bought all his ppvs and was heartbroken by his defeat to Wlad.

Thats funny didn't Chisora hold up a bottle?...Haye vs the entire Chisora team...Haye had only little Booth as back up.

Give me a link to these lies I have forgotten.

Now, given that I have never, ever, pretended to be a major boxer - the height of partisanship - I find it slightly entertaining that you accuse me of clouded judgement.

To break things into easy chunks for you - was Haye justified in waving the tripod around? And hitting Chisora?

As for the lies - we'll start with Haye/Booth's "The British public, more than Wlad, want me to beat Audley Harrison" and move on from there shall we?

azania wrote:

oxring wrote:Not blame az, not blame. Wlad had to back out because Haye was promising to retire remember?

Haye had to pull out because Setanta were about to fold. Still didn't mean that he got a certifiable back injury.

wlad could have called bluff.

He could have called Haye's bluff - but actually, paying to cancel the Chisora fight to sign with Haye and then whipping Haye seems like masterful work really.