Paul James poised to sign for Bath

http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/james-set-switch-bath/story-15890298-detail/story.html

WALES prop Paul James — who has made more appearances for the Ospreys than any other player — is believed to be poised for a switch to Bath.

The Aviva Premiership outfit are understood to be on the point of announcing the capture of a player who has featured 177 times for the Ospreys since their inception and who secured his place in the region's history by leading them to victory over Australia.

He is under contract at the Liberty Stadium until the end of next season.

But Bath are thought to have offered a better and longer deal than the Ospreys could afford in the current climate and the region decided not to stand in his way.

Tightening

James will become the latest international to depart Wales, following in the footsteps of fellow World Cup squad members Huw Bennett, Luke Charteris, Aled Brew, Gethin Jenkins and Stephen Jones, all of whom are heading away from the financially challenged regional scene this summer.

A £3.5 million salary cap is coming into Welsh rugby in the summer and the regions are all tightening the belts and shedding players.

At the Ospreys, James will join Tommy Bowe, Nikki Walker and Bennett through the exit door, while Shane Williams is retiring as a player.

A cornerstone at the region since they were founded in 2003, James has been a key figure as they have developed one of the strongest scrums in European rugby.

Perhaps his finest hour came when he skippered them to a 24-16 victory over the Australian tourists in 2006.

Were it not for the cold economic winds blowing through the game in Wales, the former Celtic champions would almost certainly have looked to retain him.

But with Duncan Jones and Ryan Bevington on their books as well, the Ospreys appear to have reasoned that the loose-head is one position where they can afford to lose someone.

Outstanding

The ultra-dependable James has been around at the region for as long as his ex-Gnoll buddy Jones, while Bevington is an outstanding prospect, maybe even the long-term successor to Gethin Jenkins at national level with his explosive tackling and dynamic all-round game.

Even so, the exit of yet another Wales international should alarm Warren Gatland, with James likely to be available only for training sessions and Tests that take place within official International Rugby Board windows.

The Welsh Rugby Union have made statements promising to "fix" the regional game and there is a financial review of the sport at the top level in Wales being undertaken by accountancy firm Price Waterhouse Coopers.

But until there is action, the drain of players away from the regions is set to continue

Can someone remind me, is James primarily a TH or LH? I'm getting mixed up with Mitchell

Loosehead Bathite. Likely to be a replacement for Flatman I'd imagine. James, Webber, Wilson to start with Catt, Mears, Perenise on the bench?

The regions are certainly shedding some players this summer, I hope their academies are working over time to replace them all.

He is a loosehead, who can play tighthead but is not very good there tbh.

Its a great signing for Bath if he does go. A cornerstone of the Ospreys pack. Extremely solid in the scrum at loosehead. Maybe not a Gethin in terms of getting around the park but he is top draw all the same.

The only logic for this release by the Ospreys is that they are still having problems getting to the 3.5 million wage cap. They did ask the other regions for special dispensation to get there by the season after but im guessing they all refused that, which explains why they will release him early from his contract.

One thing I'd like to know is what was the Ospreys wage bill last year? The press keep making out they're struggling with the £3.5M Euro squad limit even though they've shorn most of their big name players (it seems). That's basically the same as the current English cap (assuming that £500k cover the additional squad players not in Europe; another 10 players at £50k each sound fair?).

Back on topic, a good signing for Bath. a solid scrummaging prop; which they need with their scrum underperforming (from the few games I've seen). Catt must be a bit peed off though.

Thank goodness for that! Just panicked that now Belly has definately retired that we'd sign another TH. Would indeed be a good signing then, we certainly need a solid scrummager. Don't want or need another prop who is good around the park, we need an old school bloke to help build us a platform. Seems strange though, as we went for Jenkins and then Geech pulled out saying we had enough talent at LH. Guess the new DOR (whoever it is) and/or the senior mgmt don't have the same faith in Flats - thankfully!

Front row to start most games of

James - Mears - Wilson

With the following to add dynamism around the park.

Catt/Beech - Webber/Batty - Perenise/P-Newport

Blimey, we might even have a front row to compete next year, there's a novel thought!

Catt is young and needs competition to push him on. Flatman isn't really offering it and Beech is a monster in the loose but dodgey at the scrum.

James is the best scrummaging loosehead in Wales in my opinion. He will make the Bath pack rock solid on his side. Not great that he is leaving Ospreys as surely it would have been better to lose Duncan Jones.

To be fair, as good a scrummager as Paul James is, he can be a bit of a penalty machine, as of late though Bevington has been keeping out of the starting side and the Ospreys scrum is still as good as any other in Europe, and Bevington offers more in the loose. I would imagine that Paul is on quite a hefty salary as he is an established international and if Bevington is keeping him out and Duncon is covering from the bench then perhaps this move will suit both parties.

Excellent signing for Bath - keep him at LH though.

Like Ulster's Tom Court a decent LH but a poor TH

doctornickolas wrote:James is the best scrummaging loosehead in Wales in my opinion. He will make the Bath pack rock solid on his side. Not great that he is leaving Ospreys as surely it would have been better to lose Duncan Jones.

The problem is that James and Bevington will more than likely be involved in future Welsh squads so if they would of gotten rid of Duncan Jones they would of been left short in that area.

Hopefully this sees the end of Gatland having him cover TH for Wales as he's terrible in that position. No big loss for the Ospreys but I fear they won't have another guy as tough come through for a while. He served us very well going into the world cup and was unlucky not to oust Jenkins from the no.1 jersey.

Also, for Wales we have the like of Rhys Gill starting to stake a claim for the Welsh jersey.

HammerofThunor wrote:One thing I'd like to know is what was the Ospreys wage bill last year? The press keep making out they're struggling with the £3.5M Euro squad limit even though they've shorn most of their big name players (it seems). That's basically the same as the current English cap (assuming that £500k cover the additional squad players not in Europe; another 10 players at £50k each sound fair?).

My understanding is that the Welsh regions £3.5m covers all playing staff right the way down, while the English £4.6m?(isn't it?) only covers senior players and there can be dispensations for special cases and players on development contracts aren't included.

It's pounds not Euro by the way, we aren't THAT skint

the English £4.6m?(isn't it?)

Next season it will be £4.6 I think. That covers first team and any academy player that makes more than 10 appearences for the first team (including LV Cup). There are injury dispensations where a player can be brought in to replace a player who is injured for 3 months or more but has to play in a similar position and his salary is capped at the same amount as the injured players would be for the same period. So no back up 10 injury bring in Dan Carter scenarios. The addition to the regular salary cap (which takes if above £4m currently) is linked to teams having so many home grown players under the age of 24 making appearences in the first team.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

the English £4.6m?(isn't it?)

Next season it will be £4.6 I think. That covers first team and any academy player that makes more than 10 appearences for the first team (including LV Cup). There are injury dispensations where a player can be brought in to replace a player who is injured for 3 months or more but has to play in a similar position and his salary is capped at the same amount as the injured players would be for the same period. So no back up 10 injury bring in Dan Carter scenarios. The addition to the regular salary cap (which takes if above £4m currently) is linked to teams having so many home grown players under the age of 24 making appearences in the first team.

Cheers - couldn't remember the details.

As far as I'm aware the £3.5m the Welsh regions get is the bottom line, all players (regardless of being under 24 or not), all Academy players on development contracts who are brought into the regional squads (regardless of if they play or not) are included in that sum, and any loans as well.

While the Ospreys were spending very big for a Welsh region 2 seasons ago, Cuddy is not investing as much money anymore. I don't think it was as much as most English teams (I'd be suprised if it was less than Exeter/N'Castle though) and now they've cut a lot of players I'd say it's def lower.

Smirnoff - I thought it was a limit of £3.5m for the HEC/Amlin squads, so theoretically if you had the money you could have another bunch of players being payed £5m each and it wouldn't matter as they are not HEC/Amlin squad members.

As far as I'm aware the £3.5m the Welsh regions get is the bottom line, all players (regardless of being under 24 or not),

The under 24 thing is just an RFU incentive to try and get teams to utilise their academies that the PRL have decided can be added to the cap. 24 isn't the cut off for academy to first team or anything of that sort.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Smirnoff - I thought it was a limit of £3.5m for the HEC/Amlin squads, so theoretically if you had the money you could have another bunch of players being payed £5m each and it wouldn't matter as they are not HEC/Amlin squad members.

I thought that while the £3.5m squad limit was said to be for HEC/Amlin - the detail was that it included everything regardless, especially as technically anyone in the squad could be called up to the HEC/Amlin games - see Gardiner last season for the Scarlets.

Or maybe I'm wrong?

formerly known as Sam wrote:

As far as I'm aware the £3.5m the Welsh regions get is the bottom line, all players (regardless of being under 24 or not),

The under 24 thing is just an RFU incentive to try and get teams to utilise their academies that the PRL have decided can be added to the cap. 24 isn't the cut off for academy to first team or anything of that sort.

Sorry I didn't explain myself properly - I was refering to under 24's not counting towards the salary cap. I didn't mean that the age had anything to do with Academy/1st team status

Soz

I was refering to under 24's not counting towards the salary cap

They do count towards the cap. There is just an incentive paid out but the RFU to encourage clubs to blood more young talent. I think youth contracts only run up to the age of 20 and even then that is immaterial if the player makes so many appearences in a season.

Smirnoff - to be honest that would make more sense. THat said I doubt any of hte regions could realistically afford to spend anything more than that anyway.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

I was refering to under 24's not counting towards the salary cap

They do count towards the cap. There is just an incentive paid out but the RFU to encourage clubs to blood more young talent. I think youth contracts only run up to the age of 20 and even then that is immaterial if the player makes so many appearences in a season.

Ahh sorry I thought no under-24 aged players counted towards the cap - but what you're saying is that in actual fact the under 24 players do count towards the cap but if you have over a certain amount of u 24's in the squad then you get your cap increased/stretched by a certain amount - is that right?

Yep the RFU will give you £xk per player up to so many players which will expand your cap by that amount.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Yep the RFU will give you £xk per player up to so many players which will expand your cap by that amount.

Cheers

Smirnoffpriest, each club has to nominate a European squad of a set number of players that can't be changed (except for special cases). It was my understanding that the Welsh cap covered this squad. This would mean that any changes in the squad (due to injuries) would have to come into this (so a player could be replaced with one of similar 'value'), which is how the English cap works.

Could be very wrong but I've never seen anything to suggest it's for more than the defined European squad.

Thats a hell of a signing for Bath. Jones gets all the plaudits in the scrum, and Hibbard around the field but James really is the unsung hero!!!

Great for Bath - he is a very good scrummaging LHP

He is also decent on the tight (he can hold his own internationally, so will be fine covering THP at club level)

Big loss for Wales and the Ospreys.

With Gethin, James and Gill all abroad next season, it looks like Bevington will get a fair few games outside the IRB window. Rhodri Jones too.

I think Rhodri's been ok in the few games Ive seen of him, as he gets older he's going to be a real prospect!

I think James is under rated and has never let Wales down when called upon either at LH or TH, that said and from a Welsh POV it should mean Bevington get a lot more exposure down at the Liberty.

One question though that may Bath fans can answer, I thought Bath themselves were a bit strapped for cash so maybe its not money he is going for.

bedfordwelsh wrote:I think James is under rated and has never let Wales down when called upon either at LH or TH, that said and from a Welsh POV it should mean Bevington get a lot more exposure down at the Liberty.

One question though that may Bath fans can answer, I thought Bath themselves were a bit strapped for cash so maybe its not money he is going for.

errr, not quite mate, we are minted!

They're just wasting the cap on players like Donald

And Frans Louw and Dave Attwood

if bath want to shore up their creaking scrum, this is a step in the right direction. paul james is the best scrummaging loosehead in wales. he has helped the ospreys turn the scrum into an effective attacking weapon.

pioden gorllewin wrote:if bath want to shore up their creaking scrum, this is a step in the right direction. paul james is the best scrummaging loosehead in wales. he has helped the ospreys turn the scrum into an effective attacking weapon.

Good news that all the Welsh posters rate him so highly, lets hope the rumours are true!

errr, not quite mate, we are minted!

Your owner is minted and no that isn't the same thing.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

errr, not quite mate, we are minted!

Your owner is minted and no that isn't the same thing.

No it isn't, but in this case it is.

Well no it isn't, Bruce Craig is happy to put money into the business but that isn't a donation it is held as a loan from a director. Now Bath may pay no (or next to no) interest on that but should Bruce Craig ever need to access those funds then there's nothing Bath could do to stop him asset stripping the club. Unlikely as he doesn't appear to be a mug like the chap who bought Wasps but it's still not the same as Bath being wealthy. Ditto Sarries, the owners are wealthy but the club is not.

Leicester are the opposite, the club is wealthy the owners are not particularly wealthy (because the shares are all owned by fans).

Well yes it is, because the original post from the bloke thought we were short of cash and couldn't afford James' wages. But we have the cash to spend all of the cap and get a marquee, so in this instance we aren't poor and are in effect minted. Thanks for telling me how my club is run though

Not sure about this signing. He's advancing in years and we have 2 talented youngsters in Catt and Beech that we should be utilising more. Do we really need 3 in every position under the salary cap?? Surely after 2 we should look to the academy?

I think we do Bathmad, we are getting killed at scrum time and it is such a great source of attacking ball. Conversely, we also need to compete against the head to restrict and disrupt the opposition's scrums. Whilst the two youngster show promise, their strengths lie in the loose work, so James will do the primary prop's task. Leads me to assume that Flats is off though, although he is still under contract I believe. An academy prop won't help here sadly, we need a proven scrummager.

Big gaps remain in the back row and centres though, with Moody, Beattie and Carraro no longer at the club

Thanks for telling me how my club is run though

No probs

I doubt he'd be that expensive and with Bath losing Bell and Moody to retirement I would suspect that they could comfortably afford him without the need of another cash injection. Any news on the Bath marquee signing? Is Booth and Catt still the likely coaching set up?

Only news on marquee was Jones and Jenkins, both agreed terms, but we pulled out of both deals, as we decided it wasn't value for money and that we didn't need more props. But now we are in for James? Work that one out! Catt rumour gathering pace, as is Gold, not too sure about Booth. Johnson was even bandied about!

Yep, easily will fit into the cap I would think, with some educated estimates below, totalling probably £0.5m heading off the wage bill I still see space for more arrivals (of which we are expecting 3 more apparently)


Outs
Dixon -
Bell -
Beattie -
Moody -
Carraro -
~500k

Ins
Webber -
Day -
James?

This is no good, signing a player that can actually scrummage! We'll have to work out another way to beat you!

On a serious note, he's a decent signing for Bath and will teach Catt a thing or two about scrummaging. I'm still not a massive fan of Wilson, but certainly a front row of James, Webber and Wilson will cause a few problems.

Bathite wrote:I think we do Bathmad, we are getting killed at scrum time and it is such a great source of attacking ball. Conversely, we also need to compete against the head to restrict and disrupt the opposition's scrums. Whilst the two youngster show promise, their strengths lie in the loose work, so James will do the primary prop's task. Leads me to assume that Flats is off though, although he is still under contract I believe. An academy prop won't help here sadly, we need a proven scrummager.

Big gaps remain in the back row and centres though, with Moody, Beattie and Carraro no longer at the club

Against Wasps at the weekend, it was Wilson that was troubled at TH...against Payne!!!!
Worth pointing out that I think a trend is developing. Hooper plays and the scrum goes backwards. Hooper/Skirving in the row is hardly solid.

Yep, easily will fit into the cap I would think, with some educated estimates below, totalling probably £0.5m heading off the wage bill I still see space for more arrivals (of which we are expecting 3 more apparently)

I'd say that was conservative considering the rumours of what Mad Dog was on (£200kish). Your signings so far have been inexpensive but good signings so good signs so far. Another 3 would be about right I suppose. Flanker, OC/utility back and TH?

I have a pretty good idea of what those guys are on, but thought twice about posting in on here. Mad dog was a good estimate though btw. Went a bit conservative as there will be academy upgrades as well.

Wouldn't have thought they would go for another TH with Wilson, Perenise and KPN coming up fast

I think it will be a flanker and a centre as well as another outside back or back rower. Maybe a 2/3rd choice SH if McMillan doesn't recover from long term injury.

On another topic, what's the deal with Salvi mate? Know he was only signed as injury cover for Newby, so is outside the cap. Is he signed up for next year?

Desperately need some centres. With Barkley not performing, Carraro disappearing, Williams long term injured, and Banahan not suited to centre, we are extremely thin there. Everywhere else, I think we're ok.