Are Wales actually any stronger with changes????????

by dragonbreath Thu 14 Jun 2012, 9:53 am

Some interesting tweaking but are Wales any stronger

Beck is a massive gamble. He has great skills but is VERY VERY prone to ball watching as any Ospreys fan will tell you. All those Aussie dummy runners will just bamboozle him. This is a real trade off. Scotts much stronger defence sacraficed for Becks ability to create. Personally not a trade I would have made, lets hope the fact that Howley is paid for his selection skills means he is right and I am wrong. I will however have my eyes closed every time the Aussies have the opportunity to run a set move close to our line. We couldn't pick McCabe's line last week, Becks inclusion makes a repeat performance more rather than less likely. Very concerned

Smiler I think possibly improves the front row, though Ken must feel a little hard done by

For me if you are going to change the second row then change it as a unit. Bradley didn't really do enough to keep out Ianto (unless he is injured and I missed it) whose form has been excellent

Of all the changes Ryan in for Toby is something that should have probably happened anyway and will improve our go forward and decision making

On balance I think we are marginally stronger as long as Beck doesn't get caught like a Kangaroo in the headlights

by offload Thu 14 Jun 2012, 10:01 am

dragonbreath wrote:
On balance I think we are marginally stronger as long as Beck doesn't get caught like a Kangaroo in the headlights

Yes, I think the word is marginal. They were all caught in the headlight last week for the first 40! Shocked

We have a chance, and hopefully wel will not be so undercooked and seemingly surprised by the way the Aussies played. We need to play much better as a pack and stop Genia. Good to see that North has recovered. Priestalnd must deliver.

by Higher_Ground Thu 14 Jun 2012, 10:05 am

Beck is the form centre in Wales. He is not a gamble.
O'driscoll and D'arcey didn't 'bamboozle' him in Dublin.
He stays on his feet and makes offloads which lead to try's, or he scores himself. That's what Ospreys supporters will tell you.

by RubyGuby Thu 14 Jun 2012, 10:06 am

What's the team?

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Thu 14 Jun 2012, 10:07 am

RubyGuby wrote:What's the team?

https://www.606v2.com/t30827-australia-vs-wales-2nd-test-teams-and-live-match-thread

by mrzimmerman Thu 14 Jun 2012, 10:08 am

WALES: Leigh Halfpenny; Alex Cuthbert, Jonathan Davies, Ashley Beck, George North; Rhys Priestland, Mike Phillips; Gethin Jenkins, Matthew Rees, Adam Jones, Bradley Davies, Alun Wyn Jones, Dan Lydiate, Sam Warburton (Captain), Ryan Jones

REPLACEMENTS: Richard Hibbard, Paul James, Luke Charteris, Justin Tipuric, Rhys Webb, James Hook, Scott Williams

by Smirnoffpriest Thu 14 Jun 2012, 10:16 am

Am disappointed that Ianto isn't in for Bradley Davies, I think the pack is much stronger with Evans in the team - would have had him with Charts but AWJ is very good.

Didn't expect Rees to be in, but hopefully with the game against the Brummies and another week he will be raring to go and show us why he's a Lions hooker and an ex-captain.

I hope Beck takes this chance, as he could form a devastating partnership with JD2, but he really needs to concentrate and cut out the errors that were evident in the 1st game.

I'd still like to see Liam Williams on the bench to come on for a wing/halfpenny if there's injuries or to change things towards the end of the game.

Still Dewch Maen Cymru!

by munkian Thu 14 Jun 2012, 10:17 am

Ryam Jones is a great ball carrier and stealer plus brings alot of grunt to the pack. Not sure why Ianto wasn't picked - seems harsh as hes walking around with blueballs from missing his honeymoon Shocked

Glad Webb is on the bench, they need to have the nads to pull Phillips off if he doesnt rapidly find some form

I'm glad Beck is starting - loved his little pop up pass for us to score last week

by RubyGuby Thu 14 Jun 2012, 10:52 am

I'm relatively happy with this - Would have preferred Ianto on the bench to Charteris. Let's give Beck a chance but we need to be aggressive in defence and not wait for the Aussie backs to come on to us as we did last week. That's not the way we've been defending recently. Ryan offers more offensively but I think people might underestimate the great defensive work Toby does around the fringes. Ryan does deserve this opportunity though as he has had a great season and may well have been there on merit irrespective of injury. Ken Owens is unlucky as Smiler hasn't been setting the world alight and for me is there on reputation. Priestland deserves another chance but if he blows hot and cold Hook needs to be given a go at 10. Great to see Webb on the bench, he just needs to do the basics first though. Its a good side, is it good enough?, YES. Will we win? We have a 50/50 chance IMO but we must start well and get them on the backfoot - Hibbard will make an impact and its time for Warburton to lead by example again as Tips is on his coat tail thumbsup

WALES: Leigh Halfpenny; Alex Cuthbert, Jonathan Davies, Ashley Beck, George North; Rhys Priestland, Mike Phillips; Gethin Jenkins, Matthew Rees, Adam Jones, Bradley Davies, Alun Wyn Jones, Dan Lydiate, Sam Warburton (Captain), Ryan Jones

REPLACEMENTS: Richard Hibbard, Paul James, Luke Charteris, Justin Tipuric, Rhys Webb, James Hook, Scott Williams

by wales606 Thu 14 Jun 2012, 10:55 am

If we are down at 50 mins, I would like to see Hook, Webb, Charteris, Hibbar and Tipuric come off the bench. Maybe move Warbs to 8 or 6 if he is playing well.

by RubyGuby Thu 14 Jun 2012, 10:58 am

That's too many for me 606 - Aus like an open and fast game and they are better at it than us. We need control, Charteris was a bit of a liability and lacked composure last week. Hibbard and Tipuric for me but we really don't know how the game is going to go and that will define who we change. thumbsup

by jimmyinthewell68 Thu 14 Jun 2012, 11:12 am

tips be on at some stage Im sure unless Sam have a stormer . thought Ianto would be playing . howley must have caught him on the phone to biggar now hes not his friend too Shocked

by Knowsit17 Thu 14 Jun 2012, 12:32 pm

I don't feel many changes were called for. The performance was the problem, not the selection. We could only dream of being able to field a much stronger side than this. We'll need to learn and produce something improved this time or the result will be similar.

Bradley Davies still in over Evans is the only surprise for me.

by glamorganalun Thu 14 Jun 2012, 6:17 pm

Evans not even on the bench, may have done his back in! Preistland still at 10!

by bedfordwelsh Thu 14 Jun 2012, 6:52 pm

Am surprised Evans didn't start even more surprised hes not in 22

by samuraidragon Thu 14 Jun 2012, 6:58 pm

No Evans, no Delve, and of course no Biggar. We need to win this one, otherwise there'll be questions - rightly - about where we really are.

by dogtooth Thu 14 Jun 2012, 8:35 pm

Knowsit17 wrote: The performance was the problem, not the selection. We could only dream of being able to field a much stronger side than this.

quite right, knowsit

this isnt a stronger side than last weeks, but it certainly isnt any weaker. this is the biggest plus so far from the tour; wales clearly have strength in depth.

the result will be about the performance. wales did not play to their ability last week. lets hope they can regain some form and we might get a rare SH win

by slartibartfast Thu 14 Jun 2012, 8:36 pm

let us not forget the reason why wales lost last week was down to composure in attack and grunt up front... oh and defence, and kicking.... and ... er.... generally all round play.

rees did carry better when he came on and probably has better defence than ken owens

ryan jones has been the best rugby player in wales since the RWC - he's been everywhere.

AWJ - mmm.... never been a fan.... hopefully he's been picked to hit rucks with Bradley - they need to do it together.... last week at the ruck wales didn't commit enough, there was so many rucks where faletau was on his own.

I thought Gethin Jenkins had one of his worst games for wales last week - a bit off the pace?

if it wasn't for lydiate Australia would have scored far more - the guy is an absolute star! (for you WUMers out there I mean that in the welsh sense of the word)

hopefully warburton, phillips and priestland can go up a gear.

then fingers crossed that Australia go down a gear.

Then I'll be drinking a Gockle of Gear!

by flyhalffactory Thu 14 Jun 2012, 9:30 pm

slartibartfast wrote:let us not forget the reason why wales lost last week was down to composure in attack and grunt up front... oh and defence, and kicking.... and ... er.... generally all round play.

rees did carry better when he came on and probably has better defence than ken owens

ryan jones has been the best rugby player in wales since the RWC - he's been everywhere.

AWJ - mmm.... never been a fan.... hopefully he's been picked to hit rucks with Bradley - they need to do it together.... last week at the ruck wales didn't commit enough, there was so many rucks where faletau was on his own.

I thought Gethin Jenkins had one of his worst games for wales last week - a bit off the pace?

if it wasn't for lydiate Australia would have scored far more - the guy is an absolute star! (for you WUMers out there I mean that in the welsh sense of the word)

hopefully warburton, phillips and priestland can go up a gear.

then fingers crossed that Australia go down a gear.

Then I'll be drinking a Gockle of Gear!

I am with you Slarti on this

AWJ under pressure gives away penalties, on best form Charteris is a country mile above the rest and I think it was his ring rustiness that did it for him. The balance of Charteris line out and dead ball skills, and Davies brutality is IMHO way ahead of AWJs general good (but not great) all round skills and Evans defence

Your pack and particularly Warburton need to protect Priestland, last week Pocock swept aside Warbs and was onto The Priests "line of sight" much too often and much too easily. Tuperic to this extent would have done better making Pocock concentrate on him not Rhys.

Finally I agree that Gethin was way off the pace and I am suprised so much has been made of your flyhalf foilbles when its clear that the spine of the side underperformed

by gavstar Thu 14 Jun 2012, 9:32 pm

hook still ring side, surprise ,surprise, i think not!!!!!should have taken biggar, know i'm boring y'all but serves howleys right, what a useless ****, good luck guys,if we win this then the last test will be down to the ref. boxing

by glamorganalun Thu 14 Jun 2012, 9:36 pm

Who is the ref, when we play at home we get a SH ref and when we play in the SH we have a SH ref?

by slartibartfast Thu 14 Jun 2012, 9:38 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
slartibartfast wrote:let us not forget the reason why wales lost last week was down to composure in attack and grunt up front... oh and defence, and kicking.... and ... er.... generally all round play.

rees did carry better when he came on and probably has better defence than ken owens

ryan jones has been the best rugby player in wales since the RWC - he's been everywhere.

AWJ - mmm.... never been a fan.... hopefully he's been picked to hit rucks with Bradley - they need to do it together.... last week at the ruck wales didn't commit enough, there was so many rucks where faletau was on his own.

I thought Gethin Jenkins had one of his worst games for wales last week - a bit off the pace?

if it wasn't for lydiate Australia would have scored far more - the guy is an absolute star! (for you WUMers out there I mean that in the welsh sense of the word)

hopefully warburton, phillips and priestland can go up a gear.

then fingers crossed that Australia go down a gear.

Then I'll be drinking a Gockle of Gear!

I am with you Slarti on this

AWJ under pressure gives away penalties, on best form Charteris is a country mile above the rest and I think it was his ring rustiness that did it for him. The balance of Charteris line out and dead ball skills, and Davies brutality is IMHO way ahead of AWJs general good (but not great) all round skills and Evans defence

Your pack and particularly Warburton need to protect Priestland, last week Pocock swept aside Warbs and was onto The Priests "line of sight" much too often and much too easily. Tuperic to this extent would have done better making Pocock concentrate on him not Rhys.

Finally I agree that Gethin was way off the pace and I am suprised so much has been made of your flyhalf foilbles when its clear that the spine of the side underperformed

AWJ - I suppose their hoping he'll give it %110 for 50 mins and disrupt and tackle everything that moves - then bring charteris on. But surely the otherway round would've been better - AWJ is match fit mind...

if anyone want's a laugh who's not English, type "English person" in to google (disclaimer: some of my best friends are English and you must be over 18)

by TycroesOsprey Thu 14 Jun 2012, 9:43 pm

Well I was pretty dismayed when I saw that team. I have this Gareth Cooper felling all over again. Having thought about it Im not so despondent but I do think Howley has not been bold enough in selection.

1. Gethin (fine no arguments there)
2. Smiler (Brings expereince and Im pleased Hibbard is on the bench)
3. Adam Jones( of course)
5. Bradley (Still stunned its not Ianto Bradley got turned over a lot last week and needs to up his game)
5. AWJ (not suprised by his call up he is one of the form players)
6. Lydiate (one of the few players who did well last week)
7. Warburton (couldnt see them dropping the capt)
8. Ryan (deserved place but wouldnt be suprised to see Tips come on for him)
9. Phillips
10. Priestland (wouldnt have picked him, still wouldnt after thought)
11. North thank god
12. Beck (form player)
13. JD (no change)
14. Cuthbert (on fire at the moment)
15. Halfpenny (as expected)

I think its only a marginal improvement in the first fifteen and I am unconvinced by Priestland at the moment. He has a lot of pressure on him now. The big difference though is the bench Every one of them can come on and make a real impact. Hibbard, will add another carrier, Webb, Tipuric and Hook can all come on and really change the game.

Last week the Ozzy subs really made an impact and killed us in the last ten minutes. I think our bench is capable of doing the same.

by Cymroglan Thu 14 Jun 2012, 9:46 pm

Australia played well last week but Wales played a big part in making the Australians look good.
Last week we were lethargic and committed several basic unenforced errors.

by flyhalffactory Thu 14 Jun 2012, 10:23 pm

TycroesOsprey wrote:Well I was pretty dismayed when I saw that team. I have this Gareth Cooper felling all over again. Having thought about it Im not so despondent but I do think Howley has not been bold enough in selection.

1. Gethin (fine no arguments there)
2. Smiler (Brings expereince and Im pleased Hibbard is on the bench)
3. Adam Jones( of course)
5. Bradley (Still stunned its not Ianto Bradley got turned over a lot last week and needs to up his game)
5. AWJ (not suprised by his call up he is one of the form players)
6. Lydiate (one of the few players who did well last week)
7. Warburton (couldnt see them dropping the capt)
8. Ryan (deserved place but wouldnt be suprised to see Tips come on for him)
9. Phillips
10. Priestland (wouldnt have picked him, still wouldnt after thought)
11. North thank god
12. Beck (form player)
13. JD (no change)
14. Cuthbert (on fire at the moment)
15. Halfpenny (as expected)

I think its only a marginal improvement in the first fifteen and I am unconvinced by Priestland at the moment. He has a lot of pressure on him now. The big difference though is the bench Every one of them can come on and make a real impact. Hibbard, will add another carrier, Webb, Tipuric and Hook can all come on and really change the game.

Last week the Ozzy subs really made an impact and killed us in the last ten minutes. I think our bench is capable of doing the same.

Tycroes mate
Do you actually think that Adam Jones and Gethin had a good game, or Warburton for that reason?

They needed to provide the half backs with a steady platform but they didnt

by Lord Sprey Thu 14 Jun 2012, 10:45 pm

Need more Ospreys, the more Ospreys the better the team looks, in the forwards that is Whistle

by TycroesOsprey Fri 15 Jun 2012, 12:38 am

flyhalffactory wrote:
TycroesOsprey wrote:Well I was pretty dismayed when I saw that team. I have this Gareth Cooper felling all over again. Having thought about it Im not so despondent but I do think Howley has not been bold enough in selection.

1. Gethin (fine no arguments there)
2. Smiler (Brings expereince and Im pleased Hibbard is on the bench)
3. Adam Jones( of course)
5. Bradley (Still stunned its not Ianto Bradley got turned over a lot last week and needs to up his game)
5. AWJ (not suprised by his call up he is one of the form players)
6. Lydiate (one of the few players who did well last week)
7. Warburton (couldnt see them dropping the capt)
8. Ryan (deserved place but wouldnt be suprised to see Tips come on for him)
9. Phillips
10. Priestland (wouldnt have picked him, still wouldnt after thought)
11. North thank god
12. Beck (form player)
13. JD (no change)
14. Cuthbert (on fire at the moment)
15. Halfpenny (as expected)

I think its only a marginal improvement in the first fifteen and I am unconvinced by Priestland at the moment. He has a lot of pressure on him now. The big difference though is the bench Every one of them can come on and make a real impact. Hibbard, will add another carrier, Webb, Tipuric and Hook can all come on and really change the game.

Last week the Ozzy subs really made an impact and killed us in the last ten minutes. I think our bench is capable of doing the same.

Tycroes mate
Do you actually think that Adam Jones and Gethin had a good game, or Warburton for that reason?

They needed to provide the half backs with a steady platform but they didnt

what worried me about the front row was the failure to adapt to the refs call at the scrum. It was lack of concentration and what made it worse for me was the match against the Baby Blacks. In the first half the U 20s repeatedly did the same thing giving away free kicks, even before half time you could hear them calling out "no early engage" every time they went into a scrum. That level of concentration at the scrum was actually really vital in that win where the blacks scrum got a beasting. I think Wales can do the same to the Aussies and there were moments last week when it looked like they were going to. HOwever little mistakes cost us.

It was little error accross the park and I think they had fallen into believing the hype.

Warbs wasnt match fit but that game will have done him good. I think we can still beat the ozzies if the guys are switched on Gatlands arrival may have shaken them up a bit hopefully.

RP is I think the glaring weakness in the team at the moment. Another bad display and a defeat could shatter his always fragile confidence esp if fingers are pointed at him. He has to nail his kicking game from hand and he has to offer a threat with ball in hand. Phillips needs to protect him and not shovel everything out.

If we are within a score when Hibbard, Tips, Webb and Hook come on then I think we will win. Personally I would have started all four captain or no captain warbs is not in the same form as tipuric. After the scottis mugging pocock by playing two opens I actually thought it may be a good idea with no faletau available.

by samuraidragon Fri 15 Jun 2012, 12:40 am

Nervous that it is going to be more of the same, which would make 4 losses in a row versus the Oz in 9 months. They are fast strong and clever and seem to have the hex over us, whereas the Scots have got a limited but effective way of keeping them in their box.

I am a fan of AWJ, who is a more intelligent rugby player than Charteris, though Charteris is very good in the line-out. Not sure about Bradley, whose first two games for Wales were superb, but has suspect handling and judgement. Amazed Evans isn't at least on the bench.

Half-backs are a problem area for Wales currently, nervous we are going to be badly exposed here. If we don't get superiority up front, we are in trouble as Genia & co are streets ahead.

Are we stronger than last week? Not really. We need a good start and a lead to defend, rather than having to chase the game in the final quarter.

by offload Fri 15 Jun 2012, 8:20 am

Wales has never lost a rugby match. There have been occasions when the other team has scored more points but we have never been beaten. We are world champions at the creative excuse and the trophy cabinet is full of moral victories. Tomorrow I predict another resounding success, whatever the score. We are born with an unshakable faith and a birthright to be the best rugby nation on earth. We are unstoppable. Frankly, the Aussies needn't bother to show up.

If this was just an opinion I would expect some debate, but as these are the facts (and you can't argue with facts) I don't expect anyone to respond.
thumbsup

I'm already celebrating yet another Welsh victory Yahoo

by BigTrevsbigmac Fri 15 Jun 2012, 9:03 am

offload wrote:Wales has never lost a rugby match. There have been occasions when the other team has scored more points but we have never been beaten. We are world champions at the creative excuse and the trophy cabinet is full of moral victories. Tomorrow I predict another resounding success, whatever the score. We are born with an unshakable faith and a birthright to be the best rugby nation on earth. We are unstoppable. Frankly, the Aussies needn't bother to show up.

If this was just an opinion I would expect some debate, but as these are the facts (and you can't argue with facts) I don't expect anyone to respond.
I'm already celebrating yet another Welsh victory

At last some realism laughing

by HERSH Fri 15 Jun 2012, 10:37 am

Aus by 4pts

and the moral win?

Thats still up for grabs IMO. Very Happy

by **Pal Joey** Fri 15 Jun 2012, 10:44 am

Is that all Hersh? Come on... you can do better! Very Happy

by HERSH Fri 15 Jun 2012, 10:50 am

I'm serious Wales can still win the moral victory.

Why would anyone doubt them to pull that one off, if the lads do win it I’ll be downing a couple of pints of Brains SA in celebration mmmm.

by boomeranga Fri 15 Jun 2012, 10:52 am

offload wrote: Frankly, the Aussies needn't bother to show up.

In that case, can you tell Warren the keys are inside the fake rock near the front gate and to just stick 'em back there when he's leaving?

by munkian Fri 15 Jun 2012, 11:20 am

HERSH wrote:I'm serious Wales can still win the moral victory.

Why would anyone doubt them to pull that one off, if the lads do win it I’ll be downing a couple of pints of Brains SA in celebration mmmm.

Only a couple ? Man up

by HERSH Fri 15 Jun 2012, 11:25 am

Fair enough thumbsup

But to a proud Englishman it's like drinking poison!

by Smirnoffpriest Fri 15 Jun 2012, 11:29 am

HERSH wrote:Fair enough

But to a proud Englishman it's like drinking poison!

You should try Felinfoel Ale instead - or even better Penderyn Whisky!

by rhonddasmackhead Fri 15 Jun 2012, 11:29 am

Morning HERSH,

It's been nearly 9 years now since you talked about anything English. Get a move on!

by Smirnoffpriest Fri 15 Jun 2012, 11:32 am

rhonddasmackhead wrote:Morning HERSH,

It's been nearly 9 years now since you talked about anything English. Get a move on!

And probably longer than that since he started his tired wumming

by rhonddasmackhead Fri 15 Jun 2012, 11:34 am

I have never ever ever seen him write a decent article about England. It's all about Wales LOL

by munkian Fri 15 Jun 2012, 11:34 am

It's no Fosters, I'll give you that

by Smirnoffpriest Fri 15 Jun 2012, 11:35 am

rhonddasmackhead wrote:I have never ever ever seen him write a decent article about England. It's all about Wales LOL

He loves us secretly see, but he's in so much denial that he has to wum at us instead, but even in doing that it shows he thinks of us all the time! Laugh

by rhonddasmackhead Fri 15 Jun 2012, 11:38 am

Nearly everything on 606 is about Wales. It's great.

by munkian Fri 15 Jun 2012, 11:45 am

rhonddasmackhead wrote:Nearly everything on 606 is about Wales. It's great.

It realy isn't and it's not great.

There are a few genuine threads started by genuine Welsh fans - which quickly get dragged down to Hersh's level.

The rest are the Irish arguing over whether Earles should be deported or not.

by Smirnoffpriest Fri 15 Jun 2012, 11:48 am

munkian wrote:
rhonddasmackhead wrote:Nearly everything on 606 is about Wales. It's great.

It realy isn't and it's not great.

There are a few genuine threads started by genuine Welsh fans - which quickly get dragged down to Hersh's level.

The rest are the Irish arguing over whether Earles should be deported or not.

Yup that's what annoys me and is making me seriously consider leaving this forum - everything seems to result in some tired predictable wums spoiling interesting threads - especially with the return of the ghost