England are the 4th best team in the world - until November anyway

It's obvious innit?

Wales lost. 82.27
England drew 83.09

Congrats England on getting the draw.

Good result for them today, but I was surprised they didn't try to work Farrell into a better position at the end for the DG; they looked like they could have made more ground or even forced a penalty.

Bachelor

I agree, at one point they were making inroads too, but weak mental ability, as I have accused Wales of too made them force it. I have no doubt SA would've just kept on going and going and going and going...

If they had, they'd have been in 3rd spot above SA.

The scores were level, but I would say that in terms of the match, that was a "winning" draw. The team played well..... significantly better than in the first two tests and even when England went behind, they didn't panic. They kept on playing, got level and finished the game on the front foot.

As for world rankings.... well.... They do affect world cup seedings so it's no bad thing to be as high as possible but having said that, as a personal opinion, I don't place much store in them. Wales are a better team than England regardless of what 0.82% may say on paper.

I have said from the start that I like Stuart Lancaster and I think he and his coaching team can do a good job for England. Can he turn us into world cup winners..? Well, that remains to be seen, but I don't think it's impossible. After the '99 world cup there were calls for Clive Woodward's head. The rest, as they say, is history. Don't be too quick to write off SL.

The Autumn Internationals will tell us more about how England are progressing. I hope the curve is an upward one. Still not the finished article, probably, but showing consistent improvement. Rome wasn't built in a day.

This tour is over. It's ended well. Let's move onwards........ and (hopefully) upwards.

.

"The Autumn Internationals will tell us more about how England are progressing. I hope the curve is an upward one. Still not the finished article, probably, but showing consistent improvement. Rome wasn't built in a day."

I can remember saying something almost identical 2 years ago under MJs reign. We must start to beat SH sides again especially at home. I tyhink this new squad could start to do it. They seem to learn from game to game and genuinely address their weaknesses.

Updated table guys.
England safely in 4th place.
Only France can leapfrog both Argentina and Wales if they win.

1. NZ 91.43
2. Oz 87.05
3. SA 84.87
4. Eng 83.09
5. Wales 82.26
6. Argentina* 81.22
7. France* 81.06
8. Ireland 79.85
9. Scotland 77.97
10. Samoa 76.23
11. Italy* 75.26
12. Tonga 74.79
13. Canada* 71.74
14. Fiji 70.61

* play today

https://www.606v2.com/t12724p800-irb-world-rankings

WELL, that was a short life span for Wales being crowned 4TH best team in the world wasnt it.

You could throw a blanket over that second tier... they're more or less about the same anyway.

The top 4 are rankings I'd agree with, but Wales should be 5th and France 6th.

Your right we won't be 4th by the end of November............we will be second lol.

Yes I know there's more chance of me waking up in the morning next to Pippa Middleton

Does anyone know when the World cup Draw is ?

(please say before November)

December 3rd is when the rankings are frozen for the draw, I believe.

France beat Argentina 49-10 so they gain maximum ranking points to move up to .6 behind England. Argentina drop to 8th, Ireland move up one despite being roundly thrashed by NZ for the last three weeks. Rugby's a funny old game.

Duty281 wrote:The top 4 are rankings I'd agree with, but Wales should be 5th and France 6th.

Erm..... Wales ARE 5th.

Jennifer1984 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:The top 4 are rankings I'd agree with, but Wales should be 5th and France 6th.

Erm..... Wales ARE 5th.

6th...Frances big win puts them right behind england, and argentina below ireland

Jennifer1984 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:The top 4 are rankings I'd agree with, but Wales should be 5th and France 6th.

Erm..... Wales ARE 5th.

Not any more... France up to 5 after beating Argentina.

majesticimperialman wrote:WELL, that was a short life span for Wales being crowned 4TH best team in the world wasnt it.

They weren't crowned it you spanner. Please give up the wumming, as you show yourself up. Even Hersh had enough about him to admit the rankings are a joke.

Risca Rev wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:WELL, that was a short life span for Wales being crowned 4TH best team in the world wasnt it.

They weren't crowned it you spanner. Please give up the wumming, as you show yourself up. Even Hersh had enough about him to admit the rankings are a joke.

Risca Rev

What makes you think i was WUMMING?

I was simply saying that Wales time at 4th best team in the world was short lived.

PS HAVE YOU NOT SEEN THE OTHER THREAD SAYING THAT WALES ARE THE 4RTH BEST TEAM IN THE WORLD.

IT SEEMS LIKE THEIR WAS A KIND OF BRAGGING RIGHTS THEIRE OK.

Risca Rev wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:WELL, that was a short life span for Wales being crowned 4TH best team in the world wasnt it.

They weren't crowned it you spanner. Please give up the wumming, as you show yourself up. Even Hersh had enough about him to admit the rankings are a joke.

If we rephrase it: After a brief spell at 4th, Wales are back where they belong, and where they've spent most of their time since the rankings were introduced.

Alex_Germany wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:WELL, that was a short life span for Wales being crowned 4TH best team in the world wasnt it.

They weren't crowned it you spanner. Please give up the wumming, as you show yourself up. Even Hersh had enough about him to admit the rankings are a joke.

If we rephrase it: After a brief spell at 4th, Wales are back where they belong, and where they've spent most of their time since the rankings were introduced.

I totaly agree with that.

Alex_Germany wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:WELL, that was a short life span for Wales being crowned 4TH best team in the world wasnt it.

They weren't crowned it you spanner. Please give up the wumming, as you show yourself up. Even Hersh had enough about him to admit the rankings are a joke.

If we rephrase it: After a brief spell at 4th, Wales are back where they belong, and where they've spent most of their time since the rankings were introduced.

Actually, according to IRB rankings site, the average position they've had since 2003 is 7th apparently.

Only in England do you see fans and pundits talking about a draw as if it was a win and saying it is a good foundation for building a team. Pathetic. Well let me hit you all with a few doses of reality. You lost the SA series, you've lost to Wales the last two times you have played them and failed to score a single try, you lost the 6 Nations (Wales won by Grand Slamming it) and the future is not bright because your U20 team just finished in their lowest ever position in the JWC.

The AI's aren't going to be pretty either, NZ and Aus should thrash you. 4th best team in the world...it's not even comical, just delusional! You aren't even fit to lace Wales' boots!

Morgannwg wrote:Only in England do you see fans and pundits talking about a draw as if it was a win and saying it is a good foundation for building a team. Pathetic. Well let me hit you all with a few doses of reality. You lost the SA series, you've lost to Wales the last two times you have played them and failed to score a single try, you lost the 6 Nations (Wales won by Grand Slamming it) and the future is not bright because your U20 team just finished in their lowest ever position in the JWC.

The AI's aren't going to be pretty either, NZ and Aus should thrash you. 4th best team in the world...it's not even comical, just delusional! You aren't even fit to lace Wales' boots!

If you don't like it, don't read it and don't comment on it!!

So this is just an excuse for you to get all your frustrations out about losing yesterday on the English?

You know what yesterday I had some really good friendly natured conversations and banter with some of the welsh posters during the wales game, which I was cheering you on.

Just goes to show that there are Rugby fans and there are rugby Fans

Don't wallow in self pity KK , and don't expect any from me. The only way is up, and that means stepping on the average teams, like England.

Typical retort. This isn't even about Wales. But seeing as you mentioned it, we lost the series to a better team, however; in the final test we woz robbed. Joubert set out from the begginning to prevent us from winning. Wales the better team lost because of Joubert nominating himself as the oppositions '16th man'. The less said about it the better.

Back to the thread, 4th in the world? Based on a 6 Nations and SA series loss? Like i said, not even comical.

Morg

Why mate?

Knees don't take Morgs points too seriously, he does love a good bashing of the English sometimes.

For the record, although I don't disagree with Morg, Wales are the better team as they are current GS champs, I think England thouroughly deserved that draw, and I think it's a great place to base the rebuild of a young talented team, hell I even chuckled and threw a half fist pump come the final whistle (although I was particularly annoyed by Englands last 5 mins of trying not to lose rather than actually trying to win)

Morg

Yes England did lose the series to SA. But the difference between England and Wales, is England did not get WHITE WASHED LIKE WALES DID.OK.

Yes England did not win the last test but they did not lose it either.
And unlike you i have not heard a single English fan blame the loss on the ref.

Wales are best team in the NH, but when it comes to the SH teams Wales and England are simply not good enough to win.

OH and one more thing Wales are below England in the IRB world rankins.
FACT.

Jeez boys. If all we have from the June Internationals is discussing the merits of losing three in a row or losing two with one draw, then we are all in trouble. If either the current England or Wales teams had a clue how to close out a match, we might have some wins to argue about. That would be good. This is kind of embarassing.
(What if a southerner sees this???)

majesticimperialman wrote:Morg

Yes England did lose the series to SA. But the difference between England and Wales, is England did not get WHITE WASHED LIKE WALES DID.OK.

Yes England did not win the last test but they did not lose it either.
And unlike you i have not heard a single English fan blame the loss on the ref.

Wales are best team in the NH, but when it comes to the SH teams Wales and England are simply not good enough to win.

OH and one more thing Wales are below England in the IRB world rankins.
FACT.

Oh dear oh dear. Allow me to hit you with some more knowledge. Wales are better than England FACT. Which means you guys should shut up and not mock others rugby teams. Your team is terrible!

Morgannwg wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Morg

Yes England did lose the series to SA. But the difference between England and Wales, is England did not get WHITE WASHED LIKE WALES DID.OK.

Yes England did not win the last test but they did not lose it either.
And unlike you i have not heard a single English fan blame the loss on the ref.

Wales are best team in the NH, but when it comes to the SH teams Wales and England are simply not good enough to win.

OH and one more thing Wales are below England in the IRB world rankins.
FACT.

Oh dear oh dear. Allow me to hit you with some more knowledge. Wales are better than England FACT. Which means you guys should shut up and not mock others rugby teams. Your team is terrible!

Your team as been together a lot longer than what England team as been. You got white washed and we didnt.

Your Welsh team reminds me of England before Lancaster took charge. They seem to stick with the same guys and never mind if they are on form or not , they are in the Welsh team and that is that. Well just to remind you that sticking with those guys that was not on form, or even fit enough cost you three, yes 3 losses. ok.

Why are you two arguing about who is the better loser?!

Whilst I believe that Wales are better than England, you can't state it as a fact, whilst Madge's fact is in fact indubitable

Morgannwg wrote:Don't wallow in self pity KK , and don't expect any from me. The only way is up, and that means stepping on the average teams, like England.

Typical retort. This isn't even about Wales. But seeing as you mentioned it, we lost the series to a better team, however; in the final test we woz robbed. Joubert set out from the begginning to prevent us from winning. Wales the better team lost because of Joubert nominating himself as the oppositions '16th man'. The less said about it the better.

Back to the thread, 4th in the world? Based on a 6 Nations and SA series loss? Like i said, not even comical.

If you want to blame the ref England could claim they were robbed of the GS by Walsh in the 6N .... and the Irish could say they were robbed of a win against Wales by Barnes & Pearson ... but if anyone dares to criticise the ref in a game Wales win you're one of the first to tell them to get over it and start name calling .... you can't have it both ways Morg.

Heaf

The ref was massively blamed in both those games, whats your point?!

Chequered

The IRB state that England are 4th in the rankings, and that is a fact, England V Wales head to head last 2 years prove Wales are the better team home and away fact.

So your both right, but it's just a pathetic argument to have!

[quote="Morgannwg"][quote="majesticimperialman"]Morg

Yes England did lose the series to SA. But the difference between England and Wales, is England did not get WHITE WASHED LIKE WALES DID.OK.

Yes England did not win the last test but they did not lose it either.
And unlike you i have not heard a single English fan blame the loss on the ref.

Wales are best team in the NH, but when it comes to the SH teams Wales and England are simply not good enough to win.

OH and one more thing Wales are below England in the IRB world rankins.
FACT.

Oh dear oh dear. Allow me to hit you with some more knowledge. Wales are better than England FACT. Which means you guys should shut up and not mock others rugby teams. Your team is terrible![/quote]



If you are saying the team that came second are terrible it kinda devalues your glandslam doesnt it?

How did I know this would lead to the same old devalued GS garbage...

Blues- I don't like people stating things as a fact when they are clearly not. I agree that the argument is pointless and we all need to do a fair bit of work to catch up with the top 3 (a lot to catch NZ)

well I aint saying the GS was devalued I m just pointing out the flaws in moargs argument....

Wales' have had a poor tour. Poor preparation, selection, subs, discipline, tactics etc.. yet some how we almost on two test, should have most definitely won 2. England played well first test but like wales couldn't get over the finishing line. They were blown away in the opening half and any side would struggle to come back from that. Third test they played the better and were unlucky not to win.

I think both sides will feel down knowing they should have a scalp over the SH teams but they haven't. Both sides have promising futures with younger talent coming through. The 6N next year should be a good one.

It's curious about some NH team's records against Australia.

They're perceived - by NH teams/fans anyway - as the weakest of the Big 3 and the ones most likely to get a result against. Presumably this is why Gatland has pursued a policy of playing SH teams regularly. Twice as much as some of his 6 Nations counterparts and three times more than Scotland against all SANZAR sides. This fits with the regular mantra from SH commentators that NH teams need to play their southern counterparts more often.

In the last 6 NH seasons, (since AIs of 2006), Australia has played:

Wales 12 times and won 10, drew one.

England 6 times against and won three.

Ireland 6 times and won twice and a draw.

France 5 times and won all.

Scotland 2 times and lost both.

It would appear less is more for NH teams. except for the mercurial French of course. It might be time for Gatland to shift his focus to another SH country.

The record for South Africa doesn't look much better though - in same time period, SA have played:

England 11 times and won 9 and one draw.
France 2 times and won one.
Ireland 3 times and won one.
Scotland 3 times and won twice.
Wales 7 times and won all 7.

New Zealand? Let's not go there.....

France 10 times And won 8
England 6 times and won 6
Scotland 3 times and won 3
Ireland 7 times and won 7
Wales 6 times and won 6

NH performance in last 6 seasons:

Scotland 8 times - 3 wins
Ireland 16 matches - 4 wins and a draw
France 17 matches - 3 wins
England 23 matches - 4 wins and 1 draw
Wales 25 matches, 1 win, 1 draw

'mon Scotland! As Andy Robinson said - we should play the 6N in the Southern Hemisphere to give us a chance!

I think when teams are developing, or being rebuilt, as it were, there are two main steps.
First get the team to be in position right there at the end.
Second, learn how to win it.
Wales and England appear right on the cusp of the second point, just a hair off. But soon.......

Wales won in 2008? 21-18 at MS?

martyr_94 wrote:Wales won in 2008? 21-18 at MS?

Correct. They won one match out of 25. That was the one.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Heaf

The ref was massively blamed in both those games, whats your point?!

Chequered

The IRB state that England are 4th in the rankings, and that is a fact, England V Wales head to head last 2 years prove Wales are the better team home and away fact.

So your both right, but it's just a pathetic argument to have!

Yes, the refs were criticised and Morg 'name called' people that commented on the refs performance (even if they hadn't actually blamed the ref for the final result) ... and yet here he is blaming the ref ... I was pointing out the hypocrisy in his post. It wasn't a comment on actual results.

By the way I also don't believe the best team always wins - again I'm not commenting on actual results just that winning a game doesn't prove one team is better necessarily, as there are numerous scenarios where a mistake by an official can affect the result.

Agreed. Look at the Ireland match at the weekend. The ref won New Zealand the game with those last errr.... 9 tries.

If they hadn't have got those, it would have been a draw. Couple that with the match they should have won the previous week, Ireland had a really successful NZ tour when you think about it really.

Yes, the refs were criticised and Morg 'name called' people that commented on the refs performance (even if they hadn't actually blamed the ref for the final result) ... and yet here he is blaming the ref ... I was pointing out the hypocrisy in his post. It wasn't a comment on actual results.

My bad, I took you out of context

Pot Hale wrote:

martyr_94 wrote:Wales won in 2008? 21-18 at MS?

Correct. They won one match out of 25. That was the one.

I see you conveniently left out the 2005 year..where we won there too.
But still 2/25 and 1 draw is not good enough. Have to be looking to beat them consistently at home before winning away.

no problem blues

for the record I think we should comment on refs performances ... but be prepared to accept others may disagree with our interpretations - which is inevitable of course as surely we are all a bit biased at least