Super XV wrap: Final pool standings.

First topic message reminder :

So the pool rounds have come to an end and the final dye has been cast.

There were some upsets in the last pool rounds, with the Chiefs controversially going down to the Hurricanes with a last minute "try or no try" decision that would suggest the Chiefs were unlucky not to top the overall log.

The Blues dealt the death blow to Jake White's brave youngsters as they came up with only their 4th win of the season, to allow the door ajar for the Reds to top the Australian conference if they could beat the Waratahs who has been having their worst season since 2007.

Final Log without bye log points.

Spoiler:

Final Conference Log without bye log points.

Spoiler:

So in the first round of play offs the Sharks wil travel to play the Reds and the Bulls will travel to play the Crusaders.

Based on form, I would think the Bulls have little chance of upsetting the Crusaders at home, although it has to be said the Crusaders have shown some vulnerabilities this season. The Bulls have struggled all season to alter their attack against teams that match them physically in the pack.

The Sharks and Reds is harder to call, the Sharks would have had a better chance if Frans Steyn could be there, but due to the fact that he wasn't on the Sharks team roster at the beginning of the season, he is excluded from competing in the knock out rounds.

Stormer will have the week off and wait to see who they meet in the semi finals - Crusaders/Bulls
Chiefs will have the week off and wait to see who they meet in the semi finals - Reds/Sharks.

All to play for now.

I know I have been harping on how I don't like the conference system, but this season proves once again, the guaranteed spot in the play offs has aided the Reds who are in fact 6th on the log, to earn a home quarter final. PErhaps this needs to be revised, is it right to have a home quarter final against a team that is higher ranked than you?

Steyn usually plays better in knock outs in any case. He likes the pressure, so I don't think he would be the reason the Bulls lose. There are various other reasons for what I think will prevail.

I'm talking different pressure this time. Not just the match pressure against Canterbury. But also for his position in the Boks squad. His form has been off recently for both Bulls and Boks. Now there is some good, young up and coming talent at Sharks, Cheetahs, and Lions, and a steady old hand at WP. If he fails to get the backs going, and if he continues to struggle against Arg, Aus and NZ, it will hurt his chances in the future with the Boks. Best way to silence his critics is to have a good match Saturday.

Rob B wrote:

EBOP wrote:Ah, there ya go, thanks biltong. Reds get an edge maybe, but this usually works best on kiwi/NH refs. Kaplan may be stubborn and take offence, and take it out on the reds. Funny if it did. Kaplan always seems pretty level headed so can't see his appointment affecting his call. Anyways, looking forward to this game.

Could not see Kaplan getting influenced by anyone. If anything he would probably get his back up and make it even harder!

For the last 10 years kapllan has been one of the best referees in the world, however last week I saw flaws in his game which tell me his time is over, hopefully he bows out of the job quietly and doesnt try to hang on.trouble is I dont know who they can get to replace him, It will be interesting to see if SANZAR thinks any of the Australian/Kiwis refs are good enough to do a Semi let alone the final.

Just further to my last post, I would have thought that Steve Walsh would have been good enough to ref the game in Christchurch tonight.

Who is the referee for the Crusaders-Bulls?

I think it is Jaco Peyper doc.

Thanks!
Hey, do you ever sleep?

I fell asleep very early last night and after 6 hours I woke up, can't seem to get more than 6 hours sleep.

My usual bedtime is about 1 am, but then I am awake by 6h45

Last night I fell asleep at nine, had a tiring week working.

I know what you mean with the short sleep. I am usually on the 5 to 6 hour a night routine. Last weekend I probably got about 8 total between Friday and Saturday, but that was a work thing. I am gonna try to sleep now, but rumour has it there is a little Rugby in just a few hours.

doctor_grey wrote:Who is the referee for the Crusaders-Bulls?

Jonathan kaplin, is doing the bulls and Jayco Peyper is doing the Sharks/Reds, In fairness they coulnt put Peyper in charge of the Bulls Crusaders after the incident in their last game.

Who could forget Laurie. We all had some fun with that one

Crusaders fans will be happy, three games under Peyper this year, all loses.

I reckon it's the Sharks and Crusaders going through this morning.

Quade will be a huge miss for the Reds.

This is the first S15 match I have seen this season (Crusaders v Bulls). Shocked by just how poor the Bulls have been.

The Bulls came skidding into the playoffs on a terrible run. If I remember, they lost something like 4 of their last 6 matches. To then travel 7000 miles to play a team playing strong, solid Rubgy was never going to have a good result for them.

They just looked so clueless (late tries excepted). Were they harmed by the mid-season break?

Hard to say from a distance. They started their skid before the break, though. Strange to see them rather directionless because they had been so clinical in recent seasons. I guess this shows what can hapen to a team which loses people like Victor Matfield and Bakkies Botha. In addition to Matfield being a terrific player, he was a great leader, too, which can't be underestimated..

This Reds-Sharks match should be better.

Will Meyer start to question his faith in the Bulls after this Limp Bizkit performance in Christchurch? The Crusaders have been in the Super semi finals since 2001. Incredible consistency. Ironic as this year they have looked all but consistent. Though in the big games they have to win, they usually find a way. That's why they shouldn't be written off. Hopefully Read is able to come back for the next game.

If Meyer continues with some of these Bulls players especially Morne Steyn then he is an idiot

Great win by the Sharks, this is what Meyer needs to look at

The sharks play incredible rugby Biltong, I really hope they win the S15. Not just because Pienaar and Muller used to play for them.

Haha, Rory the problem for the Sharks is if they beat the Stormers they have to again fly back to NZ, I fear that will be a bridge too far.

Sharks looked very good tonight. They're shifting the ball about much better than they were in the first half of the competition. Saw them play blues early in the comp and they were just tackling and kicking points, not now, full of running.

The offloading stats produced by the Sharks each game is staggering though. They are so efficient with ball in hand.

Where was Steyn today though?

He isn't allowed to play in the knock out rounds, he wasn't on their team roster originally, same with the Stormers who called up the Canadian guy.

Ah right fair enough. If the Sharks or Stormers manage to win the S15 or even get to the final, will Meyer realise he should focus on building a team around those teams rather than around the Bulls? Which is who he seems to be trying to emulate with key players being from the Bulls.

Well Stormers vs Sharks and Crusaders vs Chiefs. What will happen if both the Stormers and the Sharks get beaten? Will the final be in Christchurch? I think this is a much better draw for the Crusaders. The travel schedule looks gruelling for the Sharks so I expect the final to be in Cape Town. Going to be interesting to see who wins next weekend.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Ah right fair enough. If the Sharks or Stormers manage to win the S15 or even get to the final, will Meyer realise he should focus on building a team around those teams rather than around the Bulls?

I hope so

Who in the bulls is in the boks? There's more from the sharks isn't there?

You mean the chiefs get beaten Kia? You'd think it'd go to the highest qualifier. Would be in chch, surely.

Very impressed with the sharks, but if the win next week, they'll be knackered.

Unless the Stormers win the final is in NZ, both the Crusaders and Chiefs are ranked above the Sharks.

EBOP, yes there are more Sharks in the squad, as you know your , 8, 9, 10, 15 access is your most important positions and they are all Bulls in Meyer's starting xv

From the most recent test series: Spies, Morne Steyn, Hougard, Olivier, Flip v d Merve, Kirchner, Potgieter....not to mention more than half the coaching staff. I think the problem here is that many would feel that of these bulls listed, there are in some cases, other SA players who'd have been better, especially at 9/10...

biltongbek wrote:Unless the Stormers win the final is in NZ, both the Crusaders and Chiefs are ranked above the Sharks.

EBOP, yes there are more Sharks in the squad, as you know your , 8, 9, 10, 15 access is your most important positions and they are all Bulls in Meyer's starting xv

Ah, I geddit. Actually, I've never played or knew this. Have heard it said the importance of the 8-9-10 axis, but now know this is one of the gripes you guys have with Meyer.

Knew there was the Steyn thing, but it's also that combination of players.

EBOP wrote:Who in the bulls is in the boks? There's more from the sharks isn't there?

You mean the chiefs get beaten Kia? You'd think it'd go to the highest qualifier. Would be in chch, surely.

Very impressed with the sharks, but if the win next week, they'll be knackered.

It isn't even the number of Bulls players, it is the Bulls players in the vital positions which dictate how the team will play. The 8-9-10 axis is all Bulls, so ultimately the attack is orchestrated by these 3 players.

The Sharks won on the road,Reds without Cooper are not the same side Sharks deserve to be there.Only the Conference system had the Reds qualified,other teams with more points denied due to the system.A guaranteed Nz v SA final great,IF the Sharks can take the Stormers that would mean a NZ home Final.Fancy Crusaders to do the Chiefs again Crusaders at Home in a Final .Now that would be a huge problem for any side.Crusaders did`nt try to much today a few silly dab kicks need to cut them out.Dan Carter missed a couple of penalties kicks,and couple of penalties to the line missed but apart from that back to his imperious best.Ritchie McCaw finished? some people need to watch him at 7 or 8 still the best player on the Planet.

I noted one Bulls player was named Engelbrecht is he any relation to the great Jannie Engelbrecht?

Not sure, Alan, have never heard it mentioned before

Mornin folks

So the Crusaders carry on their record of never being beaten in a finals game at home. but they must be concerned that they couldnt put themselves into more try scoring opportunities.

I'd like to see the Steve Walsh referee the Chiefs Crusaders game.

Sharks were impressive and have been consistent lately. They're also the most attacking of the sides. Obviously our sides will want a sharks win due to the home venue but I think also because they'll give up more chances. Recovery will be their best friend this, and maybe next,week

At the out set. I should say I missed the first twenty minutes of this game but from what i did see I felt that the Sharks were having a hard time trying to win possession (they were fine once they got it), against a team like the Stormers they could really starve, tell me if I'm reading too much into it.

The Saders look to have more in the tank and abulls win was a perfect reminder that they're in the businees end. As predicted Steyn was poor and Meyers got some thinking to do. Loses marks for wasting a perfect opportunity to blood a 10 against England.

Bit like the bulls. All their eggs in one basket. Can still see the Stormers ripping this title as the chiefs and saders won't leave anything on the field next week.Absolutely no idea who will win that one. Saders experience versus chiefs exuberance?

True, the Chiefs versus Crusaders is going to be brutal, this is not going to be a super xv game, this is an All Black trial.

And sonny bill won't want a loss to be his swansong either.
Not sure the rest has helped them either as most had a rest during the test break.

A Cruden carter duel looks exciting.

Taylorman

In fairness I thought the red and blacks had a bit of a rest too, once they realised that just had to hang out for eighty minutes and the Bulls were just going to gift them penalties, then Carter could merrily increase the score in increments of three.

The Bulls had a reputation of bullying teams,dominating Lineout/Mauls kicking for territory.The Crusaders went with a limited game plan they were brutal,they have 5 very good front row forwards.They dominated the Scrums,did well in the lineouts broke up the mauls and cleaned out the breakdown areas.
Not get into try scoring positions? don`t think they needed too a 13 point lead at half time.All they needed to do was close things down and defend McCaw led from the front he was awesome.Read to come back?or not change a winning team?Crusaders are firing at the right end of the season SBW?maybe Crotty will have something to say about him.

Yes very true Alan. Effectively they beat the bulls at their own game and that's a good sign for a stormers match if it happens but more importantly the AB matches this year. The sharks are really going to test the stormers defence amd I don't think the sharks will be able to endure a NZ match after toppling the Stormers.

Best chance for SA is by far with the Stormers even though I think the sharks are a much more complete side.

Id actually like to see a Chiefs final. Smith is no mug and his latest talk is exuding confidence in his very subtle tone. Can see them topping the saders in hamilton

I suspect the Sharks will beat the Stormers: the former are getting better and better - great attacking play, and amazing defence against the Reds (30 minutes defending on their own try-line); while the latter seem to be in a bit of a decline of late, perhaps because of injuries to key players...

AS for Chiefs - Crusaders....I've no idea

I do Mr Fishpaste. Crusaders all the way.

I've always appreciated the rhythmic abilities of the Sharks' cheerleaders. The Sharks have always been my favourite team because of their great support. So I wish to get in behind their support.

I suspect it will be a crusaders v sharks final. Not sure that the weeks break actually does the top 2 any good to be honest.