Man Utd thread

[Liam]

First topic message reminder :

There are a few Utd fans like myself on the board but like the LFC one set up, everyone are welcome to discuss Utd's results and news etc..

Playing Barca tomorrow night, only a pre-season game but would like to see Kagwa given a run out tomorrow night see what he's got against the best.

[TopHat24/7]

Nani will be crap on the left, he is good when played consistently on the right, I we aren't going to do that may as well cash in.

Thus ends a terrible transfer window where we spunk £40 million on our 2 strongest areas (regardless of their qualities) and not strengthened despite a glut of centre mids moving all over europe for reasonable fees.

Frustrating.

Agreed. Missing out on Ozil for £12m a few seasons ago was one of the most painful misses in United transfer recent history.

[TopHat24/7]

Well just 3 games in and that 24m is looking a bargain already. Typical Utd really, never know when we're beat. Thought Hernandez also made a real difference, allowed RVP to drop deeper and give him more space in behind.

Thank God he scored that hat trick and the winner after that dreadful penalty, seemed to catch his foot in the ground just as he struck. Don't think he'll be hitting one like that again.

Going forward, would like to see Hernandez playing ahead of Welbeck, whether from the bench or starting in general. Got a little lucky today but a wins a win and thankfully, rather than 3 from 3, we've got 6 from 3.

Fantastic interview with RVP post-match though. Tremendous humility and you could tell he was disgusted in himself for that penalty. Said Scholes changed the match and should have been MOTM. Fantastic attitude, real class, just what United want (unlike Berba-sulk).

[Crimey]

Welbeck can play wide and is a stronger lead the line front man.

But with Rooney or Van Persie you shouldn't have to play a stronger front man.

[matth7]

Well just 3 games in and that 24m is looking a bargain already. Typical Utd really, never know when we're beat. Thought Hernandez also made a real difference, allowed RVP to drop deeper and give him more space in behind.

Thank God he scored that hat trick and the winner after that dreadful penalty, seemed to catch his foot in the ground just as he struck. Don't think he'll be hitting one like that again.

Going forward, would like to see Hernandez playing ahead of Welbeck, whether from the bench or starting in general. Got a little lucky today but a wins a win and thankfully, rather than 3 from 3, we've got 6 from 3.

Fantastic interview with RVP post-match though. Tremendous humility and you could tell he was disgusted in himself for that penalty. Said Scholes changed the match and should have been MOTM. Fantastic attitude, real class, just what United want (unlike Berba-sulk).

Berbatov was with us, i didn't see him sulk, even when he was on the bench, i agree on the RVP bit, thought he conducted himself very well during the interview and has done very well for us so far.

[Guest]

Please tell me, people are finally realising that Welbeck and in particular Cleverley are unbelievably over-rated. These two should be no where near a Man Utd or England first team.

[TopHat24/7]

Well just 3 games in and that 24m is looking a bargain already. Typical Utd really, never know when we're beat. Thought Hernandez also made a real difference, allowed RVP to drop deeper and give him more space in behind.

Thank God he scored that hat trick and the winner after that dreadful penalty, seemed to catch his foot in the ground just as he struck. Don't think he'll be hitting one like that again.

Going forward, would like to see Hernandez playing ahead of Welbeck, whether from the bench or starting in general. Got a little lucky today but a wins a win and thankfully, rather than 3 from 3, we've got 6 from 3.

Fantastic interview with RVP post-match though. Tremendous humility and you could tell he was disgusted in himself for that penalty. Said Scholes changed the match and should have been MOTM. Fantastic attitude, real class, just what United want (unlike Berba-sulk).

Berbatov was with us, i didn't see him sulk, even when he was on the bench, i agree on the RVP bit, thought he conducted himself very well during the interview and has done very well for us so far.

Disagree, never showed a United heart for me. Looked sulky on the bench (maybe that's just his face) and, whilst he sprinted more after getting some stick, generally sauntered around waiting for stuff to happen. Just never a United player for my money.

[Scott is Back]

Welbeck frustrates the hell out of me, his first touch is appalling!
He couldnt look less threatening infront of goal!

[TopHat24/7]

Please tell me, people are finally realising that Welbeck and in particular Cleverley are unbelievably over-rated. These two should be no where near a Man Utd or England first team.

Welbeck is always going to be a player that divides opinions. One minute he looks to have a great touch and shows some skill, the next he looks like bambi on ice. The fact he is fringe England is merely a signal of how poor the England set-up is now.

I don't think Clev has played for England yet, his youth got him in the GB team, and I've only seen him rated accurately according to his potential and decent performances so far. He is not being talked about with the excitement of, say, Ox (who I rate v highly), he just looks like something England have lacked in recent years - a midfielder comfortable in possession that likes to keep the game moving with short simple passes.

[Zinedine_Ze_Zebra]

Please tell me, people are finally realising that Welbeck and in particular Cleverley are unbelievably over-rated. These two should be no where near a Man Utd or England first team.

I disagree. I really like Cleverly, OK hes not the World Class midfielder we need but hes young, hungary and works hard. Technically hes not amazing but hes far from poor. IMO hes technically better than most "work horse" branded players. As always more games will help his development and I really do hope he becomes a top star.

Welbeck I like too but yes he can be frustrating. Lot of mixed critics where hes concerned. I like his attitude, hes worked hard to earn a place in the senior squad and I feel he fully deserves it. A higher level of consistency is needed though.

[Guest]

I'm just glad people are coming round to understanding that there not what SAF has been making out for the last year or so. I'm not even a United fan and I could see that these two are the weak link along with Rafael in the first XI.

How Welbeck has just signed a new deal worth apparently 70k+ a week is ridiculous. I feel sorry for Hernandez. Told to miss the olympics in preparation for this season and then he's benched and then expected to have cameo rolls and perform instantly. United desperately need a holding midfielder. Southampton opened United up with ease.........that says everything. RVP basically papered over the big cracks and issues United still have.

[Zinedine_Ze_Zebra]

I feel sorry for Hernandez. Told to miss the olympics in preparation for this season and then he's benched and then expected to have cameo rolls and perform instantly. United desperately need a holding midfielder. Southampton opened United up with ease.........that says everything. RVP basically papered over the big cracks and issues United still have.

Agree with most of that John. RVP coming in has knocked Hernandez down the pecking order which is a real shame for him.
Seeing Javi Garcia go to Man City for £16m on deadline day was annoying. He is the type of player Man United need, fots the bill perfectly IMO so the holding role issue has not been addressed.
RVP signing has papered over cracks but for how long?

[TopHat24/7]

I'm just glad people are coming round to understanding that there not what SAF has been making out for the last year or so. I'm not even a United fan and I could see that these two are the weak link along with Rafael in the first XI.

How Welbeck has just signed a new deal worth apparently 70k+ a week is ridiculous. I feel sorry for Hernandez. Told to miss the olympics in preparation for this season and then he's benched and then expected to have cameo rolls and perform instantly. United desperately need a holding midfielder. Southampton opened United up with ease.........that says everything. RVP basically papered over the big cracks and issues United still have.

What has SAF been making them out to be? I'm yet to hear him call them world-beaters? He's been a little more effusive of Welbeck than maybe is deserved but you talk about them like they've been proclaimed as the second coming of Pele...

Be funny is RVP carries United this season like he did Arsenal for the last 3 or 4. Would love Yaya Toure or a fit Diaby in our team.

[The Special Juan]

Sounds like Dzagoev could do a job in replacing Scholes. Hmmmm.

[Guest]

Sounds like Dzagoev could do a job in replacing Scholes. Hmmmm.

Where's this Dzagoev link come from? CSKA are going to demand a huge fee for him after his performances this summer. He's nothing like in the mould of Paul Scholes.

[Liam]

Dzagoev is a nice player, but not in mild of scholes. Scholes is an out and out cam/rw/lw not a cm who dictates the play. I would offer nani as part of a deal to get him though, think it could bring the fee down for him.

I agree with an earlier point, how we didn't bid for garcia is beyond me. We are finally playing the formation I've wante for a long time and all we needed was a CDM to slot in next to a creative midfielder. At just 16m he wasn't overpriced and would have made a real difference to our side. As it is, we look vulnerable to counter attacks all the time.

[The Special Juan]

It's no link; there's no rumour (well there was ages ago), it was just me saying he could do a job. He goes forward more than Scholes does these days but I heard his passing against NI was brilliant tonight. They used the phrase "He really seems to be able to spot a pass that split second ahead of his team-mates".

[Zinedine_Ze_Zebra]

Liam
At just 16m he wasn't overpriced - Spot on. Benfica usualy demand a high price for their stars. IMO £16m was a bargin for a Benfica talent.
Think he is the one player we could of really done with this summer. Most other top CDM's are out of bounds for us. Garcia wasnt and we did nothing about it. Hope it doesnt come back to bite us.

[The genius of PBF]

Hernandez is cack it is like playing with 10 men with him in the team...Welbeck is a future star you saw the impact he made against Ukraine on Tuesday.

John stick to overrating former and current Newcastle players like Parker...Parker got exposed in the euros for the talentless player he is.

If Carrick was in the euros England would have made the final.

[Crimey]

I'm pretty sure that John doesn't rate Parker.

I disagree completely about Hernandez, who I think offers so much more to the team than Welbeck. While Welbeck is physically the stronger player, and perhaps is more likely to come deeper his runs are very rarely clever, he has probably the worst first touch in the Manchester United squad and his finishing ability isn't consistent enough, scoring wonder goals but missing easier chances.

Hernandez while perhaps not a striker that will do as much in the link up play is a clever little footballer and can find the spaces others don't. Playing with Van Persie or Rooney, I'd always pick Hernandez, with one of those two you don't need Welbeck as they both go deep in anyway, you need somebody prepared to sit up top and make the runs to get into a scoring position.

I'm not even going to address your ridiculous point about Michael Carrick, he has gone from being underrated to horribly overrated. He's a decent player, but he's not defensive enough to be an all out defensive midfielder, but doesn't have the passing ability to be a Paul Scholes. He's found a role in the Manchester United midfield, but wouldn't be able to fill the role in Hodgson's England who wanted one playmaker (Gerrard) and one scrappy, defensive midfielder like Mascherano (Parker). I don't think Carrick's absence made any difference at all, other than England may have had a bit more percentage of the possession.

[Bull]

I agree with you about Hernandez and i would prefer he starts over Welbeck.

[The genius of PBF]

Im pretty sure I have seen him waxing lyricals over Parker and other ex or current Newcastle players.

Hernandez does not offer as much as Welbeck last season he got found out I dont mind him at United as long as he accepts he is fourth choice and a benchwarmer like Owen.

Welbeck is young as long as you get in position to score goals, when he gets older he will be more clinical...I remember the likes off Henry and Drogba when they first came would miss easy chances on a consistent basis.

A Liverpool fan telling me im overrating players haha...Spanish players like Alonso and Xavi rate him highly...Ferguson always picks him so he must be doing something right.

Gerrard is the most overrated player in premiership history...Cant keep possession plays hollywood balls all the time...Gerrard is not a patch on Scholes.

[GSC]

Drogba still misses easy chances.

His goal record for Chelsea isn't that spectactular

[Liam]

Cannot believe someone said they don't rate Hernandez. I think scoring 20 goals in your debut season highlights what a good player he is and what a great player he has the potential to become.

Not all goal scorers are blessed with the ability to drop deep and link up play, that's the number 10's job. Hernandez is an old fashioned out and out striker, who will play on the last defender's shoulder and look to spin in behind. I thought against Southampton he was like Scholes, one of the game changers. He offered something different and the runs he made caused Southampton havoc and imo, allow Van Persie to find more space.

I think he'll get more games this season and will be prefered to Welbeck. I would like Welbeck to go out on loan again. With Rooney coming back, RVP, Hernandez and this other Chilean striker, its pretty crowded, so I wouldn't mind seeing him go out on loan but it won't happen.

[Crimey]

I'm not trying to get into debate about clubs, it makes absolutely no difference whether I support Liverpool or Burton Albion.

I don't think just you overrate Carrick, I think it happens with a lot of players and a lot of people do it. A player is underrated that lots start pointing it out, they then become overrated. It's happened to Lucas at Liverpool. Midfielders like Carrick and Lucas are prone to it because for so many years they were underrated (see Michael Carrick).

I did actually say that Michael Carrick clearly does have a place in the Manchester United side, but that doesn't mean he's world class or could take England to the Euros. I actually stated why I thought this was. Take the time to read my posts rather than jumping down my throat because I disagree.

Hernandez is also young, and much better at getting into the positions and finishing the chances. Welbeck offered more last year because he had a much longer run in the team, I still think Hernandez is the much more talented and intelligent footballer and they'll regret treating him in such a disrespectful way.

I also must have missed the point where I even mentioned Steven Gerrard.

[Bull]

Hernandez is better then Welbeck and is all so young. for me i would start him over welbeck.

[Liam]

Hernandez is better then Welbeck and is all so young. for me i would start him over welbeck.

[Liam]

Crimey,

I agree on your points, Carrick isn't world class and isn't going to transform the England side. What I will say is he's a very solid, steady player who does the basics well. He's not as good as Scholes in dictating the play but what he doesn well are simple yet effective 5 yard passes that allows us to keep the tempo of our play high.

I think Hernandez is a far better player than Welbeck and hope he get's in ahead of him more times than not.

[Crimey]

Crimey,

I agree on your points, Carrick isn't world class and isn't going to transform the England side. What I will say is he's a very solid, steady player who does the basics well. He's not as good as Scholes in dictating the play but what he doesn well are simple yet effective 5 yard passes that allows us to keep the tempo of our play high.

That's exactly what I said, I'd say his decent as a defensive midfielder and those simple passes that keep the game moving. I don't think he is world class at reading the game and tackling or passing, but his strength lies in that he is good at both which makes him valuable. As Scholes, while an excellent passer, is poor at tackling, somebody like Mascherano is great at being that cover of the defence but his passing ability isn't up to scratch.

[GSC]

I'd argue Carrick slows the game down by passing backwards

[Liam]

In an ideal world, Carrick would be a handy replacement from the bench or as cover for a world class midfielder that we desperately need (saying this for past 3 years now).

[Ent]

Scholes is alright at tackling he is just a dirty s**t.

Welbeck offers more all round than Hernandez and scored a number of important goals against big teams last year. He also cannot be criticised for getting picked on the left wing over Hernandez.

I like Hernandez but his first touch is as poor as welbecks and unless he is being put through or attacking crosses its like playing with 10 men at times.

His chance will come and he will have to take it or end up being an impact sub or sold.

[matth7]

Van Persie and Kagawa are fit to play tomorrow and Fletcher will be in the squad as well.

[Josiah Maiestas]

The thing with Scholes is he doesn't take kindly to match sledging, you call him a Ginger Biscuit you better be ready for an ambush.

[Liam]

Van Persie and Kagawa are fit to play tomorrow and Fletcher will be in the squad as well.

Excellent news and hopefully Fletch get's a 15 min cameo appearance. We need him back, whether he'll be the same player as before only time will tell but if you're looking for a big match player then look no further than Darren.

[compelling and rich]

on the hernadez/wellbeck issue:

the thing with is hernadez is that defences have had a look at him now, they know that it they sit deep and narrow and leave him with no space in behind its a massive part of his game gone, and he realy doesnt offer anything in terms of holding up the ball. he needs the service if he doesnt get it (which when most teams will come to defend against united is a difficult one to provide) he's pretty useless

wellbeck while not being as good technically he does work hard for the team and does alot of the donkey work up front, something that has been needed in the past season due to the poor midfield.

its kind of remind me of the whole situation when ruud spat his dummy out, we had ruud and saha. clearly one was a better player but whenever saha came in we became a better team because he worked hard and linked up with other players better, we had other options other than having ruud plonked up front and having to go through him everytime (it also released rooney and ronaldo)

either way i think at best both wellbeck and hernadez are squad players at best, both strikers can give you something else from the bench if required. the only reason wellbeck has featured so much is youngs injury and nani's performances (and the rumoured fergie running out of patience with him)

[matth7]

Buttner starts.

[matth7]

Van Persie on the bench, Welbeck and chicharito up-front.

[matth7]

Lindegaard, Rafael, Rio, Vidic, Buttner, Nani, Carrick, Scholes, Giggs, Chicharito, Welbeck

[matth7]

MUFC bench: De Gea, Evans, Valencia, RVP, Cleverley, Powell, Kagawa

[compelling and rich]

fergies started messing with teams early i see, do think he goes ott with squad rotation these days. theres no wonder we get no cohesion in midfield

[GSC]

Ian Ladyman ‏@Ian_Ladyman_DM
De Gea bollocked in dressing room after Fulham. I never tht he'd be binned for next two, tho. Harsh after Everton. #mufc

I get he had partial fault for the 2nd goal, but were it not for him Fulham wouldve scored 5

[Guest]

disgusting dive from Welbeck again, hardly surprising hernandez misses after his lack of matches. SAF has woken up and dropped the over-rated cleverley now do the same for Welbeck.

Nick Powell with a great goal. Cleverley look away.

[The Special Juan]

Dunno why Hernandez took the penalty. I don't think he's ever taken a penalty in his life. Should've been Giggs. He needs a goal.

[Ent]

Takes them for Mexico and took one last season, but he is a terrible striker of the ball so I wouldn't let him.

Wouldn't read into a team selection against Wigan when we have cl midweek!

[John Cregan]

As an "outsider" can someone please explain to me how a group chanting "always the victim, it's never your fault" at the Wigan game yesterday has been interpreted by the Man U Supporters Trust as NOT being about Hillsborough................they have described anyone suggesting it was about Hillsborough as being "irresponsible"!!!

Instead of condemning the ""chanters" as stupid idiots, this is what they come up with..............whoever the Supporters Trust are....get a life...........

[Guest]

It's obviously about Hillsborough, you'd be naive not to think so.

However, I wouldn't feel sorry for them just yet as when United and Liverpool meet again, it's inevitable that those idiots will bring up Munich as a rebuttle.

And then the whole sorry circle will start again.

It's not needed, it's not really clever either, but you'll always find a pocket of fans who want to push the boundaries.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

I still can't believe quite how blatent Welbeck's dive was yesterday. And how the holy hell the referee gave it as a penalty.

Oh wait Michael Oliver was refereeing that explains it

[TopHat24/7]

disgusting dive from Welbeck again, hardly surprising hernandez misses after his lack of matches. SAF has woken up and dropped the over-rated cleverley now do the same for Welbeck.

Nick Powell with a great goal. Cleverley look away.

Still failing to back up your 'over-rated' assertion I see. As was pointed out before, nobody has said he is more than 'a bit good with good potential', hardly being called the next Messi, so I'm not sure where 'over-rated' comes from. Is anyone that's called half decent over-rated unless they score/assit 3 or 4 goals a game??!

[Stella]

I still can't believe quite how blatent Welbeck's dive was yesterday. And how the holy hell the referee gave it as a penalty.

Oh wait Michael Oliver was refereeing that explains it

It looked like one from me when I first saw it. Yes, when you see the replays, you can see he dived but you're being a bit harsh on the ref.

[Liam]

Fergie to play 'experienced side' tomorrow vs Galatasary. Guessing it will be along the lines of:

Lindegaard

Rafael
Ferdinand
Vidic
Evra

Carrick
Scholes

Valencia
Kagawa
Young/Giggs

RVP

??

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