Edinburgh V Munster Build up thread

[RDW]

Edinburgh team

15 Greig Tonks



14 Lee Jones
13 Nick De Luca

12 Ben Atiga
11 Tim Visser

10 Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN

9 Richie Rees



1 John Yapp
2 Ross Ford

3 Willem Nel

4 Grant Gilchrist
5 Sean Cox

6 David Denton
7 Ross Rennie

8 Stuart McInally



Substitutes :
16 Andy Titterrell
17 Allan Jacobsen
18 Geoff Cross

19 Perry Parker
20 Dimitri Basilaia
21 Chris Leck
22 Gregor Hunter
23 John Houston

Munster Team Named:

01 Wian du Preez
02 Damien Varley
03 BJ Botha
04 Donncha O'Callaghan
05 Billy Holland
06 Paddy Butler
07 Sean Dougall
08 James Coughlan
09 Duncan Williams
10 Ian Keatley
11 Luke O'Dea
12 James Downey
13 Casey Laulala
14 Doug Howlett (capt.)
15 Denis Hurley

16 Mike Sherry
17 Marcus Horan
18 Stephen Archer
19 Dave Foley
20 Barry O'Mahony
21 Peter Stringer
22 Scott Deasy
23 Ivan Dineen

[red_stag]

RDW,

We definitely won't have our big guns back - they will probably be another 3 weeks away.

The preseason has not gone well and we are currently there for the taking. I understand though that Edinburgh havent had a great preseason either but we are definitely vulnerable having shipped heavy defeats to La Rochelle and London Irish - neither of whom are exactly winning their leagues.

The squad announcement will be tomorrow but I expect this is what you will see:

01 Wian du Preez
02 Damien Varley
03 BJ Botha
04 Dave Foley
05 Billy Holland
06 Paddy Butler
07 Sean Dougall
08 James Coughlan
09 Duncan Williams
10 Ian Keatley
11 Johne Murphy
12 James Downey
13 Casey Laulala
14 Doug Howlett (capt.)
15 Denis Hurley

16 Sean Henry
17 Dave Kilcoyne
18 Stephen Archer
19 Phillip Donellan
20 Niall Ronan
21 Peter Stringer
22 Scott Deasy
23 Sean Scanlon

I think that our second and backrow is very weak and as happened in preseason our forwards could end up bested.

In fact as I read through your pack I am sure of it - Ross Rennie, Dave Denton and Ross Ford will pack a mean punch.

[RDW]

Thanks stag. I don't recognise the names of any of that back 5 so hopefully as you said we will have a chance to gain dominance in the pack. Your backs are still potent though. Are there lots of young guys in that pack?

I don't know how many of our internationalists will actually be playing, but looks like we couldn't have a better time to be playing Munster!

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

I'm having problems reading Edinburgh at this point - for all the recruitment and undoubted improvement in squad depth, the pre-season showings (minus internationals or not) were ... urine poor. If it all clicks into place against Munster, absolutely delighted for them and full credit to Bradley and Backy; if it doesn't, could be happy travels for Munster

[RDW]

Just noticed Sepp Visser isn't in the squad - bit harsh cause he had a fantastic game against the Saints and Mike Penn has looked flakey to say the least.

[RDW]

Taking stock of where we are pre season wise in terms of bringing players back, I'd like to see Edinburgh put out:

1 Chunk
2 Titterell
3 Cross
4 Gilchrist
5 Cox
6 Basilaia
7 Grant
8 McInally
9 Rees
10 Leonard
11 Visser
12 Atiga
13 De Luca
14 Jones
15 Brown

Subs - Yapp, Ford, Nel, Parker, Rennie, Denton, Laidlaw, Tonks

The idea being that Laidlaw covers 9 and 10, Tonks comes on for either De luca or Visser depending on who is most knackered, and a massive impact off the bench in the forwards!

Can you imagine us being just in the lead and Ford, Nel, Denton and Rennie come on?? What a boost that would be to the team!

[red_stag]

RDWScotland,

They are young enough. At second row we are missing our first four second rows - Donncha O'Callaghan, Paul O'Connell, Donnacha Ryan and Ian Nagle.

Dave Foley is 24 and Billy Holland is 26.

In the backrow Tommy O'Donnell, Peter O'Mahony and CJ Stander are not available. I would think that is our first choice backrow. Dave O'Callaghan is also injured and Niall Ronan only did his first contact work yesterday so he won't start but could be on the bench.

In the backrow, Sean Dougall is a new signing. He is Scottish born but grew up in Ulster playing for Ulster academy moving playing for Rotterham for 2 years. He had a good preseason. He is 22.

Paddy Butler is more of a Number 8 than a blindside but its a case of needs must. He is 21 years old and I think quite a promising player - he got a call up to the Irish senior squad against the Barbarians (no mean feat when you look at the backrows available).

Its the engine room where I am worried. We have our 5th and 6th choice locks and there will be a very inexperience guy on the bench too.

Still though, if we gain parity up front we can win. Thats a good backline.

[RDW]

So looks like it will come down to the packs then, and both have been taken to the cleaners in pre season!

[caoimhincentre]

RDWScotland,

They are young enough. At second row we are missing our first four second rows - Donncha O'Callaghan, Paul O'Connell, Donnacha Ryan and Ian Nagle.

Dave Foley is 24 and Billy Holland is 26.

In the backrow Tommy O'Donnell, Peter O'Mahony and CJ Stander are not available. I would think that is our first choice backrow. Dave O'Callaghan is also injured and Niall Ronan only did his first contact work yesterday so he won't start but could be on the bench.

In the backrow, Sean Dougall is a new signing. He is Scottish born but grew up in Ulster playing for Ulster academy moving playing for Rotterham for 2 years. He had a good preseason. He is 22.

Paddy Butler is more of a Number 8 than a blindside but its a case of needs must. He is 21 years old and I think quite a promising player - he got a call up to the Irish senior squad against the Barbarians (no mean feat when you look at the backrows available).

Its the engine room where I am worried. We have our 5th and 6th choice locks and there will be a very inexperience guy on the bench too.

Still though, if we gain parity up front we can win. Thats a good backline.

Saw butler in the RDS last year in the B&I Semi and he was the best player on the pitch that day. he's a big boy too.

[RuggerRadge2611]

1 Chunk
2 Titterell Ford
3 Cross
4 Gilchrist
5 Cox
6 Basilaia Denton
7 Grant Rennie
8 McInally Basilaia
9 Rees
10 Leonard
11 Visser
12 Atiga Houston
13 De Luca
14 Jones
15 Brown

Subs - Yapp, Titteral, Nel, Parker, McInally, Grant, Laidlaw, Tonks

Changes I would make to your team RDW. I don't think now is the time to urinate about with the team and hope to catch munster cold with impact from the bench. From the get go I would like to see us grab the game by the throat and to do that it means playing our best players.

We have seen before if you give Munster wriggle room they'll make you pay. A lot of unknowns in the Staggy's Munster team forecast but the backs will give us trouble if they get good ball.

Win the battle up front with our big game players (Ford, Denton, Rennie, Cox, Cross and the new guy Basilaia who you and FES spoke highly of) and really take it to Munster.

I would rather see Bradly throw down a marker with this game and show the league we mean business.

I'm genuinly quite worried about this game. The last time Munster posted up a team sheet that had me stating "who are these nobodies" smashed us convincingly.

We'll need to be at out best to win this one methinks.

[RDW]

Don't get me wrong Radge - I'd love to see the team you've picked, that's pretty much our first choice pack apart from Talei, but I'm just thinking in terms of pre-season.

Titterell, Grant and Basilaia have been our only decent players so far and may be a bit harsh to replace them for guys who haven't had a game yet. Especially Grant. They are also battle hardened and ready to take it to Munster whereas the Scotland guys might take a game or two to get up to speed. I reckon they could do that with half an hour off the bench once the starting pack have hopefully given us a lead.

I'd like to see Atiga kept too - he's a physical player and desperately needs game time to get fit. Houston is a decent squad player but I think Atiga has the potential to give us more.

[RDW]

Also agree re Munster "unknowns". It never sits well with Scots when we are "favourites" and I know these guys are going to be good players who will want to succeed, and we can't take them lightly at all.

[red_stag]

From a Munster point of view I am both excited and worried.

Our first three games are Edinburgh, Treviso and Dragons.

We are playing rubbish. If we can win these games despite playing badly I think we could grow into the season.

If we get caught out in these I think we could have a disaster of a season.

[RDW]

I reckon Treviso are going to do over a lot of teams this year - especially at home.

[red_stag]

How close is that to Edinburgh first team?

[RDW]

The one Radge showed? Talei and Basilaia are going to be having a right battle for number 8, Laidlaw at 10, Matt Scott at 12, and that's pretty much the first team.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

How close is that to Edinburgh first team?

Relative to Radge's team, I would say only Talei, Laidlaw and Scott for sure, possible Nel over Cross too

[reallybored]

Agree with RDW, would prefer to see Ford, Rennie and Denton eased back into action as they'll all play a lot of rugby over the next 12 months and their replacements have been doing well.

Is Atiga fit enough to start against Munster? I know he needs to gain match fitness but surely it's a risk having a player that can't play for 80 minutes.

Still not 100% convinced by our front five but very excited to have De Luca, Visser, Jones and Brown back in the same back-line and fingers crossed Leonard gets a chance to impress.

[red_stag]

Oh wow really? There looks to have been major changes this season for Edinburgh (are they still the Gunners).

There is a lot of debate about what exactly Munster's strongest team is but I reckon that from the one I posted only 5 of them will be playing Edinburgh in the Heineken Cup.

[RDW]

Take it that was sarcasm Stag??

Our first team is pretty much the same, which is the team that got us to the HK quarters. It's our 2nd team that needed drastic action and that's what all these players have been brought in for. WP Nel, Van Der Vesthuasen (Who doesn't arrive til October), Basilaia and Atiga could end up first choice players though.

[RDW]

Swap Rees for Blair, Leonard for Laidlaw, Houston for Scott and Basilaia for Talei and that's the team that started the game against Ulster in the HK.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Oh wow really? There looks to have been major changes this season for Edinburgh (are they still the Gunners).

There is a lot of debate about what exactly Munster's strongest team is but I reckon that from the one I posted only 5 of them will be playing Edinburgh in the Heineken Cup.

Don't think so, that was abandoned a few years back, i think. "... in the Heineken Cup"?

[red_stag]

Yea Asbo. Munster got Edinburgh, Saracens and Racing Metro in the pool.

I was wondering how close to 1st team this was because we'll have a fairly new look team by then I reckon.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Gotcha

[RDW]

Put it this way - chances are fairly high that the team that played in the HK semi last year will play Munster in the HK this year. There may be 1 or 2 differences due to injury or form, but the all important difference is that the bench will be infinitely stronger!

[George Carlin]

1 Chunk
2 Titterell Ford
3 Cross
4 Gilchrist
5 Cox
6 Basilaia Denton
7 Grant Rennie
8 McInally Basilaia
9 Rees
10 Leonard
11 Visser
12 Atiga Houston
13 De Luca
14 Jones
15 Brown

Subs - Yapp, Titteral, Nel, Parker, McInally, Grant, Laidlaw, Tonks

Changes I would make to your team RDW. I don't think now is the time to urinate about with the team and hope to catch munster cold with impact from the bench. From the get go I would like to see us grab the game by the throat and to do that it means playing our best players.

We have seen before if you give Munster wriggle room they'll make you pay. A lot of unknowns in the Staggy's Munster team forecast but the backs will give us trouble if they get good ball.

Win the battle up front with our big game players (Ford, Denton, Rennie, Cox, Cross and the new guy Basilaia who you and FES spoke highly of) and really take it to Munster.

I would rather see Bradly throw down a marker with this game and show the league we mean business.

I'm genuinly quite worried about this game. The last time Munster posted up a team sheet that had me stating "who are these nobodies" smashed us convincingly.

Entirely agree, Radge.

I don't care if it's harsh to drop Titterall, Basilaia and McInally - these guys understand that they are not the incumbents for their shirts and they will all probably make the bench anyway.

Let's not p!ss around - if you ever get a chance to beat Munster, you should take it and if that means front-loading the pack with regulars, then so be it.

Radge - the game you are thinking about was last November, when I remember thinking I'd never heard of Barnes, Zebo or O'Dea and all three of the little tykes scored, snapping a three game Edinburgh winning 'streak'.

[RDW]

I'm just questioning whether the 3 mentioned would make much of a difference, i.e. not match fit 1st choice players over match fit, playing well and battle hardened 2nd choice players.

I suppose I'd take a semi fit Ford of Titterrell and probably Denton over McInally who only played 1 game. Ford is going to have a very long season though, with hopefully the Lions at the end, so could see him not starting.

Grant played really well against the Saints and had the engine to keep going all 80 minutes.

Shame we have to wait until Friday morning to find out - means we've got loads of time to debate over the selection!

[funnyExiledScot]

My team selection principle would be to just pick the best fit available side. I can't speculate on the fitness of the Scotland players who haven't had a pre-season, but the Edinburgh coaches will know. If they are fit they should play. I suspect they won't all be fit enough, and players like Ford and Rennie have hopefully had some feet up time since the last tour, so no issues for me if Titterall and Grant start - both were good against the Saints.

There isn't a cats chance in hell that Atiga will last 80 minutes against Munster. 50 minutes against Northampton and he was a spectator. If he starts, Bradley will have to legislate for taking him off mid through the second half. I'd probably start him though - he's a big tackler and we'll need him to shut down James Downey on the gain line. If Munster watched the Saints game they'll know that running hard through the middle and generating quick ball is enough to beat Edinburgh by 50 points.

My predicted starting XV:

1.Yapp 2.Titterall 3.Nel 4.Gilchrist 5.Cox 6.McInally 7.Grant 8.Basilia 9.Rees 10.Leonard 11.Penn 12.Atiga 13.Tonks 14.Jones 15.Brown

[cp10]

My predicted starting XV:

1.Yapp 2.Titterall 3.Nel 4.Gilchrist 5.Cox 6.McInally 7.Grant 8.Basilia 9.Rees 10.Leonard 11.Penn 12.Atiga 13.Tonks 14.Jones 15.Brown

I take it that's not your preferred team! Think we'll be done over if that team starts.

I think the plan should be to introduce the new guys gradually surrounded by mainly first team players. Having 8 new players going into a team straight away will kill us. Unless Bradleys strategy is short term pain vs medium term gain.

[funnyExiledScot]

No, that's my predicted team, not preferred team.

Clearly I'd rather our best players were fully fit and starting. I'm just not convinced that will be the case.

[RDW]

Anyone want to take a punt on non-capped Edinburgh players who will be capped by the end of the season? Think FES or ASBO said Lee Jones and Tom Brown at the start of last year and struck it lucky, reckon there will be any more this year?

I'd like to think Gilchrist would get capped, but he is now a bit more established that Jones or Brown were at the start of last year so maybe nto so surprising. A slightly more risky choice would be Roddy Grant - but all it would take would be a couple of injuries and he'd be in the Scotland team! He definitely would deserve it for his committment and workrate during games.

Greig Tonks is another contender but he hasn't shown overly much in pre-season yet to make me think he is anything but a solid squad player, early days though.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

My predicted starting XV:

1.Yapp 2.Titterall 3.Nel 4.Gilchrist 5.Cox 6.McInally 7.Grant 8.Basilia 9.Rees 10.Leonard 11.Penn 12.Atiga 13.Tonks 14.Jones 15.Brown

Have you guys seen anything from Penn in pre-season? Totally baffling hire that one

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Anyone want to take a punt on non-capped Edinburgh players who will be capped by the end of the season? Think FES or ASBO said Lee Jones and Tom Brown at the start of last year and struck it lucky, reckon there will be any more this year?

I'd like to think Gilchrist would get capped, but he is now a bit more established that Jones or Brown were at the start of last year so maybe nto so surprising. A slightly more risky choice would be Roddy Grant - but all it would take would be a couple of injuries and he'd be in the Scotland team! He definitely would deserve it for his committment and workrate during games.

Greig Tonks is another contender but he hasn't shown overly much in pre-season yet to make me think he is anything but a solid squad player, early days though.

Struck it lucky, struck it lucky?!?! Don't remember saying that, but I'll defo take the plaudits! Not sure that I see any 'new' caps for this season

[RDW]

Nothing whatsoever. His Youtube video looked good but to be fair to the guy the Saints game wasn't exactly his kind of game - i.e. we didn't have any ball for him to do anything with! He's got great pace and a step though so if we were on top you can see him being a good finisher, but if he starts against Doug Howlett I may cry.

[reallybored]

Gilchrist will surely be involved with Scotland this season but not sure he'll get capped seeing as there's a fair amount of competition (Gray, Hamilton, Kellock, Ryder, McKenzie, Swinson?)

What about McInally or Leonard?

[RDW]

I see that a lot of the Scotland guys are back for Glasgow - might mean nothing but perhaps shows that there are no orders from on high to keep players out of it this week.

[RDW]

Would be very surprised if McInally gets close - he lacks physicality at Rabbo level never mind international. I think he's just too small to be an international 8.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

The big question for me is will Embra be able to match last season's league form?!

[red_stag]

The big question for me is will Embra be able to match last season's league form?!

Fingers crossed.

[RDW]

Who invited one of the great unwashed onto a civilised Edinburgh topic....

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

[RDW]

Everyone check their wallets now!

Sorry had to get some kind of revenge after a comment like that!

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

[RDW]

[George Carlin]

The big question for me is will Embra be able to match last season's league form?!

Fingers crossed.

[George Carlin]

My predicted starting XV:

1.Yapp 2.Titterall 3.Nel 4.Gilchrist 5.Cox 6.McInally 7.Grant 8.Basilia 9.Rees 10.Leonard 11.Penn 12.Atiga 13.Tonks 14.Jones 15.Brown

Have you guys seen anything from Penn in pre-season? Totally baffling hire that one

He looks like a poor man's Taylor Paris to me.

It's a shame that the former US Eagles rugby captain Kevin Swords isn't playing.

If Edinburgh's new signing ever tackled him, then the Penn would have to be said to be mightier than the Swords.

[funnyExiledScot]

Tricky question regarding new caps this season from the Edinburgh squad.

In the pack Gilchrist and Grant are possible, but I wouldn't put money on either. Gilchrist has too much competition (and needs to get nasty), and Grant is realistically 4th choice (and rightly so) behind some great players.

Harry Leonard is a possible in the backs, particularly if Laidlaw gets injured, as he'd be first choice at Edinburgh and arguable should be ahead of whoever is second choice at Glasgow. James King a long shot for a cap at 12 (personally I think he's pretty average) and I suppose should Penn turn out to be as turd as most of us suspect, then Farndale could also be in with a shout.

My prediction - no new caps from the Edinburgh squad this season.

[RDW]

Right - score prediction time! Prize for the winner.*

I'm gonna be bold and go for Edinburgh 27 - Munster 17.

I'm hoping we'll get dominance in the pack and our backs will remind themselves where the tryline is having not scored all pre season.

Not massively confident about that though!

*There is no prize

[funnyExiledScot]

That is a bold prediction!

I'll wait until I've seen the teams before making my prediction but if the Edinburgh line-up is as I predict it will be above, I'd expect Munster to win.

[red_stag]

Munster Team Named:

01 Wian du Preez
02 Damien Varley
03 BJ Botha
04 Donncha O'Callaghan
05 Billy Holland
06 Paddy Butler
07 Sean Dougall
08 James Coughlan
09 Duncan Williams
10 Ian Keatley
11 Luke O'Dea
12 James Downey
13 Casey Laulala
14 Doug Howlett (capt.)
15 Denis Hurley

16 Mike Sherry
17 Marcus Horan
18 Stephen Archer
19 Dave Foley
20 Barry O'Mahony
21 Peter Stringer
22 Scott Deasy
23 Ivan Dineen

Its a better team than I thought with O'Callaghan started at second row and Mike Sherry on the bench.

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