Did Leinster throw the game on Friday vs Connacht?

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Well did they?

I believe they didn't care whether they won or not.

IMO it needs to be looked at by the Rabo league and action taken if they feel they threw the game away.

GunsGerms wrote:

Portnoy wrote:I have great respect for the Ladyboys' achievements.

add in a huge dolop of jealosy and frustration that Leicester appear to becoming weaker by the year?

Leicester cant compete with Leinster anymore so there are very few competitive matches between the two sides.

If you say so GnG. I prostrate myself at your profound knowledge and must concede that the Tigers are not worthy of smelling the rag of the man that cleaned the bogs, that serve the Leinster millennial dynasty.

Now you're talking sense. Tigers arent great right now its true, a banana skin at best. I blame the AP. Its a jaded league. Needs a visionary at the helm to refresh and reawaken it. Mark McCafferty seems to be cut from the same stale cloth as Rob Andrew.

I know GnG, Where does Declan/IRFU fit into your masterplan?

I've been mythering on on English posts as to how poor Squeaky is (bring back SCW). Mark McCafferty is a fairly new media mouthpiece - so I'll hold my peace on him until I form a considered view until I've researched his history and utterings.

Portnoy wrote:I know GnG, Where does Declan/IRFU fit into your masterplan?

I've been mythering on on English posts as to how poor Squeaky is (bring back SCW). Mark McCafferty is a fairly new media mouthpiece - so I'll hold my peace on him until I form a considered view until I've researched his history and utterings.

Kidney features quite low on my masterplan. We (Ireland) are not moving forward.

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/isaac-boss-dominic-ryan-injury-586220-Sep2012/?utm_source=shortlink

Boss out for 8 weekso, Dom Ryan out for 12. Balls.

Bollix to it anyway.
From having 6 international backrowers available, we now have 1.

Heaslip - IRFU - back in 2/3 weeks
McLaughlin - IRFU + back in 2/3 weeks
SOB - out post-op - Nov/Dec at the earliest
Ryan - Out till January.
Ruddock + Out till October?


Leaves Jennings and Auva´a. Next 3 games will be tough. Who do we move to the backrow? The IRFU wont budge on releasing our players earlier.
I assume we will have a full compliment for Connacht away. Its the week before we play Munster and 2 weeks before we start in the Heino.

Cooney is also going to have to step it up at SH. Trying times. Leinster are in CRISIS.

Mickado wrote:http://thescore.thejournal.ie/isaac-boss-dominic-ryan-injury-586220-Sep2012/?utm_source=shortlink

Boss out for 8 weekso, Dom Ryan out for 12. Balls.

Saw that. Annoyed re Ryan in particular. Really want to see this guy do well as I think he has the makings of a very strong player.

Gibson wrote:Bollix to it anyway.
From having 6 international backrowers available, we now have 1.

Heaslip - IRFU - back in 2/3 weeks
McLaughlin - IRFU + back in 2/3 weeks
SOB - out post-op - Nov/Dec at the earliest
Ryan - Out till January.
Ruddock + Out till October?


Leaves Jennings and Auva´a. Next 3 games will be tough. Who do we move to the backrow? The IRFU wont budge on releasing our players earlier.
I assume we will have a full compliment for Connacht away. Its the week before we play Munster and 2 weeks before we start in the Heino.

Cooney is also going to have to step it up at SH. Trying times. Leinster are in CRISIS.

Murphy to start and Coghlan on the bench I suppose,we're stretched pretty thin until McLauglin and Heaslip come back.Silver lining is that these guys will get decent gametime to develop but it's a pity Ryan is the one losing out as he needs games too.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Gibson wrote:Bollix to it anyway.
From having 6 international backrowers available, we now have 1.

Heaslip - IRFU - back in 2/3 weeks
McLaughlin - IRFU + back in 2/3 weeks
SOB - out post-op - Nov/Dec at the earliest
Ryan - Out till January.
Ruddock + Out till October?


Leaves Jennings and Auva´a. Next 3 games will be tough. Who do we move to the backrow? The IRFU wont budge on releasing our players earlier.
I assume we will have a full compliment for Connacht away. Its the week before we play Munster and 2 weeks before we start in the Heino.

Cooney is also going to have to step it up at SH. Trying times. Leinster are in CRISIS.

Murphy to start and Coghlan on the bench I suppose,we're stretched pretty thin until McLauglin and Heaslip come back.Silver lining is that these guys will get decent gametime to develop but it's a pity Ryan is the one losing out as he needs games too.

Marshall would be next up for the bench, but we could play Roux or Denton at 6. Team out in half an hour.

Also. The 10 remaining Intl lads should be back next week and the week after.

It seems odd that even with the current crisis the IRFU won't give you the Heaslip or McLaughlin back sooner, on the understanding they get an extra few games off mid-season or something.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:It seems odd that even with the current crisis the IRFU won't give you the Heaslip or McLaughlin back sooner, on the understanding they get an extra few games off mid-season or something.

Why?

Fly - because winning games is better of your confidence than losing, and for the likes of Madigan, Macken and co that are IMO near the fringes of the Irish squad that would be more beneficial to the irish national side (and Leinster) than struggling and scraping the barrel for backrowers, who may never be able to step up to international level.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Fly - because winning games is better of your confidence than losing, and for the likes of Madigan, Macken and co that are IMO near the fringes of the Irish squad that would be more beneficial to the irish national side (and Leinster) than struggling and scraping the barrel for backrowers, who may never be able to step up to international level.

Away with you and your logic. What's that about?

Those guys need a break after that long season. We dont want to rush any of the internationals back into the squad and risk more injuries.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Fly - because winning games is better of your confidence than losing, and for the likes of Madigan, Macken and co that are IMO near the fringes of the Irish squad that would be more beneficial to the irish national side (and Leinster) than struggling and scraping the barrel for backrowers, who may never be able to step up to international level.

But I just wanted to know why you felt an early attack on the championship (top guns playing at the beginning and being given their 'off' time in the middle of a season) is preferable to a slow build up of intensity over a season? I think Leinster have shown that the better time to have your bad period is at the beginning of a season rather than having a progressive season interrupted by needlessly giving key players extended midterm breaks.

At the beginning of a season every side is rusty (some may play better than others but, still, all of them are more rusty than they will be a month or two down the line). I think the beginning is the best period to 'sacrifice' a game or two to inexperience - not the middle or the end.

Fly - my thinking was that it is not just these two but more or less two full sets of back row forwards that are missing at the moment. Yes the start of the season is a fine time to have your bad patch. But my thought was missing a week or two rest (post AIs/6Ns) which the likes of SOB, Ryan and Ruddock would be back covering, would be more use to the IRFU/Leinster than having them rested up and then struggling to get game time for all of them + Jennings.

LEINSTER:

15: Isa Nacewa
14: Andrew Conway
13: Brendan Macken
12: Noel Reid
11: Fionn Carr
10: Ian Madigan
9: John Cooney

1: Jack McGrath
2: Sean Cronin
3: Jamie Hagan
4: Leo Cullen CAPTAIN
5: Quinn Roux
6: Ben Marshall
7: Shane Jennings
8: Leo Auva'a

REPLACEMENTS:

16: Tom Sexton
17: Heinke van der Merwe
18: Martin Moore
19: Devin Toner
20: Jordi Murphy
21: Luke McGrath
22: Colm O'Shea
23: Darren Hudson

DRAGONS: Dan Evans, Will Harries, Pat Leach, Andy Tuilagi, Tom Prydie, Steffan Jones; Jonathan Evans; Nathan Williams, Sam Parry, Nathan Buck, Ian Nimmo, Adam Jones, Hywel Stoddart, Jevon Groves CAPTAIN, Toby Faletau

REPLACEMENTS: Hugh Gustafson, Aaron Coundley, Tim Ryan, Lewis Evans, Tom Brown, Liam Davies (Bedwas), Ashley Smith, Hallam Amos

REFEREE: Marius Mitrea (FIR), ASSISTANT REFEREES: Mark Patton, Jonathan Peak (both IRFU), 4th OFFICIAL: Gary Glennon ((Leinster Rugby Referees), 5th OFFICIAL: David Williams (Leinster Rugby Referees), TMO: Alan Rogan (IRFU)

Can any dragons fans confirm if Liam Davies (Bedwas) is the ex-scarlets Liam Davies?

Looks like a pretty good dragons side.

Leinster hammered the dragons at home over the weekend without most of their top players. Did they throw that match too?

GunsGerms wrote:Leinster hammered the dragons at home over the weekend without most of their top players. Did they throw that match too?

They tried to with the interception try

Maybe they didn't treat it as another pre-season friendly or maybe they saw this thread on 606v2?

Leo Cullen: "Hersh thinks we're not even tryin', Lads"
Nacewa: "Who is he?"
Cullen: "Fat Lady of the Singing Bath and all that........... you know, the common man of rugby excellence?
... the Duke of knowledge?
.... the ALL SEEING EYE?
... the razor sharp wit?.
.. the anti-Welsh bigot?.............
..the goal posts?...
..606?
...V2?...................
no?.... none of the above?...is this a bloody rugby team at all, lads!!!?? You never heard of 606v2?"
Madigan: "Oh is the rugby season back on?????? When did that happen? Jesus, and aren't we after playing a whole game of Gaelic last week by mistake! - Lads, listen up! - It's rugby this week okay! Rugby. R-u-b-i-e-e. Don't forget this time."

Is this thread still going?!!!!!

Bloomin hell you boys can talk!

Clear the Dragons threw that game though.

Blatantly obvious T. See what they could do when they were arsed? Highly suss. There's money involved here. Leinster bought the ref. Offered Dragons a cheap weekend in Killkenny - with free booze. That did it. They capitulated for a few pints. Yup.

SecretFly wrote:Leo Cullen: "Hersh thinks we're not even tryin', Lads"
Nacewa: "Who is he?"
Cullen: "Fat Lady of the Singing Bath and all that........... you know, the common man of rugby excellence?
... the Duke of knowledge?
.... the ALL SEEING EYE?
... the razor sharp wit?.
.. the anti-Welsh bigot?.............
..the goal posts?...
..606?
...V2?...................
no?.... none of the above?...is this a bloody rugby team at all, lads!!!?? You never heard of 606v2?"
Madigan: "Oh is the rugby season back on?????? When did that happen? Jesus, and aren't we after playing a whole game of Gaelic last week by mistake! - Lads, listen up! - It's rugby this week okay! Rugby. R-u-b-i-e-e. Don't forget this time."

Well did they throw it against Connacht?

Yep, same way the English champs did

HERSH wrote:Well did they throw it against Connacht?

Hersh - you are deliberately misleading with this thread, by re-titling an older thread.

It's poor form. If you want to start a new topic - then do so.

beshocked wrote:It's all hypothetical. All sides in the AP bar Worcester and London Welsh might make the Top 6. It's competitive because sides play their full strength teams most of the time.

Except in HEC. They leave that to their academy players.

Can't see how. They took a good team to the Sportsground and got outplayed. Not unusual because it's a derby game. Goes to show the unbelievable strength of these lowly Rabo teams though I guess. Up the Celts.

The future's bright, the future has a BT logo on ones sleeve. (copyright Rodders ).

Morgannwg wrote:. Goes to show the unbelievable strength of these lowly Rabo teams though I guess. Up the Celts.

But not Up the Italians?

The Pro 12 probably should be re-named the Celtic oh-yeah-and-the-italians-as-well-League.........

Will this be asked every time Leinster lose? I know they're good. But no team ever wins every game. Did Leinster throw the game when they lost in the HC semi to Toulouse in 2010? We didn't have Sexton that day through injury, so it wasn't our strongest team. Or did we throw the game to London Irish in the RDS in 2009? Or when we lost to Treviso last year? Can the mighty Leinster losing, only be possibly explained by them throwing it? Or do the opposition just play better on the day sometimes?

Some day the penny will drop with some posters here that the teams that have big squads and rotate their players intelligently are the teams with the silverware at the end of the year.

I also refute the lie that's constantly peddled that English clubs play their strongest 15 in every game. They don't. And the more internationals they have the more their rotation policies resemble Leinsters.

Yep they threw the game. Connacht's stunning performance in the backs was all down to Leinster owing the bookies a few quid. It would also explain why Kielys' were going to offer free pints and finger food if Leinster got a try. They knew it would never happen.


I think we all know Leinster threw it!

Its worth pointing out that Toulon have changed their whole team against Toulouse. The first team have been given the weekend off after their good start. I don't see any threads about the French.

HERSH wrote:Well did they?

I believe they didn't care whether they won or not.

IMO it needs to be looked at by the Rabo league and action taken if they feel they threw the game away.

On another thread I listed for you some of the Leinster injured players ie Dave Kearney, Eoin O'Malley, Mark Flanagan, Boss, Reddan, Fitzgerald, Strauss, Sean O'Brien, Dom Ryan, Rhys Ruddock and Darren Hudson. There could be more. Last night D'Arcy, Quinn Roux and Rob Kearney went off injured.

Thomond wrote:Yep they threw the game. Connacht's stunning performance in the backs was all down to Leinster owing the bookies a few quid. It would also explain why Kielys' were going to offer free pints and finger food if Leinster got a try. They knew it would never happen.


I think we all know Leinster threw it!

If someone was crazy enough to put money down on a Europe Ryder Cup win and Connacht 28 point victory, they could buy the internet!

Morgannwg wrote:Can't see how. They took a good team to the Sportsground and got outplayed. Not unusual because it's a derby game. Goes to show the unbelievable strength of these lowly Rabo teams though I guess. Up the Celts.

The future's bright, the future has a BT logo on ones sleeve. (copyright Rodders ).

Yup it had all of Leinster's best players like BOD,Sexton,Heaslip,SOB etc.


Let's be honest - if Leinster were taking the game seriously would they get hammered? Probably not.

I don't think Leinster wanted to lose but they won't care too much. The HC and big game against Munster are coming up.

Ultimately the bread and butter for Leinster is still the HC. They want another HC trophy - they want to prove yet again they are the best in Europe. The Pro12 in their eyes is small fry. It's why they are happy to rest their Irish stars. They know a loss here or there is normal.

beshocked wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:Can't see how. They took a good team to the Sportsground and got outplayed. Not unusual because it's a derby game. Goes to show the unbelievable strength of these lowly Rabo teams though I guess. Up the Celts.

The future's bright, the future has a BT logo on ones sleeve. (copyright Rodders ).

Yup it had all of Leinster's best players like BOD,Sexton,Heaslip,SOB etc.


Let's be honest - if Leinster were taking the game seriously would they get hammered? Probably not.

I don't think Leinster wanted to lose but they won't care too much. The HC and big game against Munster are coming up.

Ultimately the bread and butter for Leinster is still the HC. They want another HC trophy - they want to prove yet again they are the best in Europe. The Pro12 in their eyes is small fry. It's why they are happy to rest their Irish stars. They know a loss here or there is normal.

We lost three games out of 22 regular season games last year. there was no homecoming/celebration after the HC final last year because we wanted to do the double. Leinster players take the Pro12 very seriously. Connacht just played much better than us.

Im not sure that its true to say Leinster didnt care. The problem with Leinster v Connacht games is Connacht tend to raise their game more than any other team v Leinster and they always end up being a very tough opponent especially in the Sportsground especially at the start of the season when squad depth isnt as much a factor. Leinster also have not had the greatest start to the season so as a Leinster fan Im not surprised we lost that one but disapointed that the margin was so great.

I am saying it wasn't the best Leinster side you could field. There were numerous key absentees.

I disagree with Hersh. I don't think any side looks to throw away a game but to give yourself the best chance of a win you need to field your strongest side.

If you took as seriously as you say your Irish stars would play a lot more.

beshocked wrote:I am saying it wasn't the best Leinster side you could field. There were numerous key absentees.

I disagree with Hersh. I don't think any side looks to throw away a game but to give yourself the best chance of a win you need to field your strongest side.

If you took as seriously as you say your Irish stars would play a lot more.

There is finite number of games any Irish player can play. Sexton played 16 times for Leinster last year, but also played in 16 international tests, which is more than any non-international player at Leinster, Devin Toner made 31 appearances for us last year. Of course if a player NEEDS (a contractual madate that is) to be rested he will get a rest for league games, not cup games.

I think squad rotation could also be considered an indicator that Leinster take the league very seriously. No matter what league you look at the best teams generally rotate their squad more that teams that arent quite good enough to win. Yes you may lose some games but your squad will be much stronger as the business end of the season approaches.

Time to move on guys, with the HC just around the corner and a fixture against Munster I'm sure Leinster will start to wake up and take games more seriously.

beshocked wrote:

Ultimately the bread and butter for Leinster is still the HC. They want another HC trophy - they want to prove yet again they are the best in Europe. The Pro12 in their eyes is small fry. It's why they are happy to rest their Irish stars. They know a loss here or there is normal.

Number 1: - What's wrong with that philosophy?
Number 2: - Leinster rarely allow HEC aspirations to interfere with them gaining a playoff slot at the end of Pro12. A play-off slot is the deal and they work hard to effect that.

So - they emphasise HEC (the more important and better quality competition - to any of the leagues!) and they make sure they keep their Pro12 aspiration going too.

There is absolutely no wording you'll ever find beshocked to make all that wrong, or non-satisfactory, or illogical. There is just nothing you'll ever say that will turn right approach and right priorities into wrong.

HERSH wrote:Time to move on guys, with the HC just around the corner and a fixture against Munster I'm sure Leinster will start to wake up and take games more seriously.

You never know. Traditionally the first group match of the Heineken cup is the one Leinster tend to struggle in the most as the coach is still experementing to see what his best team is. Last year away to Montpellier was the only match all season Leinster didnt win in the Heino. They also lost the first group match v LI at home a couple of seasons ago.

HERSH wrote:Time to move on guys, with the HC just around the corner and a fixture against Munster I'm sure Leinster will start to wake up and take games more seriously.

For what its worth I agree with Beshock and Hersh.

Sometimes we don't take some matches as seriously as others.

But I like it that way. I dont see that it is a problem. It is quite logical.

Leinster v Connacht won't be as big a match as Leinster v Munster - how could it be.

But equally there is no way that Tigers v London Welsh has the same intensity as Tigers v Bath.

Rotation is all well and fine. I think rotation is great but it can and does cost you matches. Sometimes it can very costly. I think it has for my own side in regards to European ranking.

My own side Saracens left out key players against Toulon away game in the 2009/10 ACC. I believe it cost us the match, the ACC pool and has badly crippled our ERC ranking.

When a team is having patchy form you need to play your best side IMO. How is losing going to help team confidence?

Red stag I would agree with that. If Saracens take London Welsh lightly I will be annoyed. We need to play the big guns though.

The compromise is leave your stars on the bench and bring them on if things aren't going your way.

Winning is winning. There is no distinction. You either win or you don't win. And the object of winning is to win....things; not just games.... titles, cups, events. You play to win events not individual games.

So a season then becomes a chess game because every side - every side - has finite resources, every side knows that fate might hit you with some seismic injuries, every side knows that some days you just won't win - even with your top players on the field - sh!t happens as the most experienced people at this thing called life say.

So, during a season - you have two competitions you want to excel at - two competitions you want to take a shot at winning. So, you look at your resources and ----------- manage. You manage your resources. Nothing is perfect and your management of those resources might come up short but you have to try.

It's elementary management, kindergarten management to suggest you just have this gruff, manly idea that you want to win all games and send out all your best players all the time to do so. It rarely works.

beshocked wrote:The compromise is leave your stars on the bench and bring them on if things aren't going your way.

But thats what Leinster did. This is the team Leinster named:

15: Rob Kearney
14: Fergus McFadden
13: Brendan Macken
12: Gordon D'Arcy
11: Isa Nacewa
10: Ian Madigan
9: John Cooney

1: Heinke van der Merwe
2: Thomas Sexton
3: Jamie Hagan
4: Quinn Roux
5: Tom Denton
6: Ben Marshall
7: Shane Jennings CAPTAIN
8: Leo Auva'a

REPLACEMENTS:

16: Sean Cronin
17: Cian Healy
18: Mike Ross
19: Devin Toner
20: Jordi Murphy
21: Luke McGrath
22: Noel Reid
23: Fionn Carr

Thats 4 Irish internationals on the bench. They had Rob Kearney, Gordon Darcy, Shane Jennings, Isa Nacewa, Heinke van der Merwe, Fergus McFadden etc.

A lot of that team is Heineken Cup standard. The issue is not resting players. It is that Conancht were more focused and rightly took the win.

It is also important to point out that with 30 minutes gone in the match, 4 of that XV had to be replaced due to injury which slightly upset things.