Did Leinster throw the game on Friday vs Connacht?

First topic message reminder :

Well did they?

I believe they didn't care whether they won or not.

IMO it needs to be looked at by the Rabo league and action taken if they feel they threw the game away.

Yes, it seems too that outsiders looking in do the cartoon view of the league and look at Connacht, and sides like it, as the cartoon no-hopers. If the big sides try hard enough, Connacht and their like would never seriously win.

Rubbish. There is/was no guarantee that an ideal Leinster HEC side would have won that game against Connacht. To suggest so is not to have looked at the game at all. Connacht won because they were driven, they played at a high and brutal tempo all the way through and they played with clinical and skilled intent. They won because they deserved to win.

Pro12.

SecretFly wrote:Connacht won because they were driven, they played at a high and brutal tempo all the way through and they played with clinical and skilled intent. They won because they deserved to win.

Pro12.

Quite the rallying cry

Once more onto the breach, dear friends!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Personally I do enjoy seeing our whole squad playing.

Once you rotate with common sense you can continue to turn in good performances. Imagine Munster made 15 changes week after week.

Wian du Preez, Damien Varley, BJ Botha
Donncha O'Callaghan, Paul O'Connell
Dave O'Callaghan, James Coughlan, Sean Dougall
Conor Murray, Ronan O'Gara
James Downey, Keith Earls
Simon Zebo, Felix Jones, Luke O'Dea

Dave Kilcoyne, Mike Sherry, Stephen Archer
Donnacha Ryan, Billy Holland
CJ Stander, Peter O'Mahony, Niall Ronan
Peter Stringer, Ian Keatley
JJ Hanrahan, Casey Laulala
Johne Murphy, Denis Hurley, Doug Howlett

Marcus Horan, Sean Henry, John Ryan
Dave Foley, Ian Nagle
Tommy O'Donnell, Paddy Butler, Barry O'Mahony
Duncan Williams, Scott Deasy
Ivan Dineen, Troy Smith
Sean Scanlon, Darren Sweetnam, Danny Barnes

Plenty of chance to rotate.

red_stag wrote:

HERSH wrote:Time to move on guys, with the HC just around the corner and a fixture against Munster I'm sure Leinster will start to wake up and take games more seriously.

For what its worth I agree with Beshock and Hersh.

Sometimes we don't take some matches as seriously as others.

But I like it that way. I dont see that it is a problem. It is quite logical.

Leinster v Connacht won't be as big a match as Leinster v Munster - how could it be.

But equally there is no way that Tigers v London Welsh has the same intensity as Tigers v Bath.

What do you mean "we". Youre not even a Leinster fan. How do you know how seriously Leinster take any game? Just beacuse Munster may prioritise one thing over another doesnt mean Leinster do.

Guns,

By "we" I mean the Irish provinces.

I could ask the same thing. How you do know how seriously Leinster take any game? How does any fan know what motivates a professional player.

We base it on logic. Leinster have the same objectives as Munster and indeed Ulster too.

1 - To win the Heineken Cup

2 - To win the RaboDirect Pro 12

3 - To develop players so that they will not be as affected by international withdrawals.

If you are suggesting that Leinster v Connacht on a Friday night in Galway before your matches against Musnter and Europe was as motivational as the bigger matches then please do write us a postcard from your visit to Cuckooland!

Leinster's new highly experimental process will be unwrapped at the weekend.

For the first time ever we'll be using our secret 8th string against Munster. It mightn't pay off but it's a risk Joe feels can be tried against Munster.

Might as well Secretfly.

Sure you're only playing Exeter week after. Thats a guaranteed win anyway -right beshocked?

SecretFly wrote:Leinster's new highly experimental process will be unwrapped at the weekend.

For the first time ever we'll be using our secret 8th string against Munster. It mightn't pay off but it's a risk Joe feels can be tried against Munster.

The toxic derivative XV?

Did we lose one poster and gain another? Must keep an eye on that seeming development.

red_stag wrote:Guns,

By "we" I mean the Irish provinces.

I could ask the same thing. How you do know how seriously Leinster take any game? How does any fan know what motivates a professional player.

We base it on logic. Leinster have the same objectives as Munster and indeed Ulster too.

1 - To win the Heineken Cup

2 - To win the RaboDirect Pro 12

3 - To develop players so that they will not be as affected by international withdrawals.

If you are suggesting that Leinster v Connacht on a Friday night in Galway before your matches against Musnter and Europe was as motivational as the bigger matches then please do write us a postcard from your visit to Cuckooland!

I cant speak for the team but I can speak as a Leinster fan which you cant. I dont see why just because Munster dont prioritise the Rabo that means Leinster dont. Winning the Rabo is very important to Leinster fans thats for sure.

Leinster do not have the same objectives as Ulster and Munster. Leinster's objective should be to win the double as that would be an improvement on the last two years. With respect the double is not on either Munster or Ulster's radars right now. Ulster however, should be capable of winning something this year as they are our most improved side.

For what its worth I dont think Leinster will win anything this year.

"If you are suggesting that Leinster v Connacht on a Friday night in Galway before your matches against Musnter and Europe was as motivational as the bigger matches then please do write us a postcard from your visit to Cuckooland!"

Not sure what you are trying to say there as you seem to be missing some words. However, Leinster v Connacht are usually very good games and often quite tight and there is no reason to suggest that Leinster didnt take it seriously just because they rotate their team.

...last year for example over 15,000 fans showed up to the RDS to see Leinster play Connacht. That is a big crowd by European standards for a league match.

GunsGerms wrote:
I cant speak for the team but I can speak as a Leinster fan which you cant. I dont see why just because Munster dont prioritise the Rabo that means Leinster dont. Winning the Rabo is very important to Leinster fans thats for sure.

Leinster do not have the same objectives as Ulster and Munster. Leinster's objective should be to win the double as that would be an improvement on the last two years. With respect the double is not on either Munster or Ulster's radars right now. Ulster however, should be capable of winning something this year as they are our most improved side.

I beg to differ, I expect Ulster to be challenging on two fronts this season. The HEC will take priority when its on but I hope and expect to do a lot better than last years 5th(6th) place league finish.

Indeed Rodders I am also hoping for the double like I hope every year. If you have a good 1st XV and a good squad you should be aiming for a double.

Especially as you only have to finish 4th in the league.

Don't think anyones told Mark Anscombe or Rob Penney they shouldn't be aiming at the double.

I think both will have the aim of winning every competation they enter.

I'd expect nothing less from either side. Thats not to say Leinster aren't a step further down the line to achieving an elusive double but I would be hoping my team are going out there to win every competition they are in.

I was struck when listening to some match buildup stuff before one of the Top 14 matches last weekend when the commentators were openly saying that (I think it was Perp) were resting players as they were away that weekend and they hadn't a hope anyway.

I did a time check on outhalf player time of most the teams that won something or were in a final last season to see how they compared.

Toulouse - Luke McAlister - 25+4 games. 1833 mins.
Toulon - Wilko - 26+ 2 games. 1982 mins.
Clermont - Brock James - 20+? - 1837 mins.
Harlequins - Nick Evans - 27 games. 2037 mins.
Leinster - Sexton - 27+7 games. 2092 mins (International matches included there).

Looks like Sexton played more rugby than any other flyhalf in Europe last season (minute wise).

rodders wrote:I'd expect nothing less from either side. Thats not to say Leinster aren't a step further down the line to achieving an elusive double but I would be hoping my team are going out there to win every competition they are in.

You might not like to hear this, but I think Ulster could be found guilty of sending a few lambs to be slaughtered in the RDS over the last few years!

GunsGerms wrote:

red_stag wrote:Guns,

By "we" I mean the Irish provinces.

I could ask the same thing. How you do know how seriously Leinster take any game? How does any fan know what motivates a professional player.

We base it on logic. Leinster have the same objectives as Munster and indeed Ulster too.

1 - To win the Heineken Cup

2 - To win the RaboDirect Pro 12

3 - To develop players so that they will not be as affected by international withdrawals.

If you are suggesting that Leinster v Connacht on a Friday night in Galway before your matches against Musnter and Europe was as motivational as the bigger matches then please do write us a postcard from your visit to Cuckooland!

I cant speak for the team but I can speak as a Leinster fan which you cant. I dont see why just because Munster dont prioritise the Rabo that means Leinster dont. Winning the Rabo is very important to Leinster fans thats for sure.

Its only important now because you've lost 3 finals in a row and whatever about losing away from home, its pretty awful to lose at home x2 times.

Here is a thing to look at esp for hersh.

There is an English team that got in some more top players who have been throwing games all this season as London Welsh picked up 2 wins against two teams that are focusing on the HC and aren't taking the league seriously.

As a result Sale is turning the Prem into a mickey mouse league as they save themselves for the Hc as did Exter by losing to Welsh.

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

red_stag wrote:Guns,

By "we" I mean the Irish provinces.

I could ask the same thing. How you do know how seriously Leinster take any game? How does any fan know what motivates a professional player.

We base it on logic. Leinster have the same objectives as Munster and indeed Ulster too.

1 - To win the Heineken Cup

2 - To win the RaboDirect Pro 12

3 - To develop players so that they will not be as affected by international withdrawals.

If you are suggesting that Leinster v Connacht on a Friday night in Galway before your matches against Musnter and Europe was as motivational as the bigger matches then please do write us a postcard from your visit to Cuckooland!

I cant speak for the team but I can speak as a Leinster fan which you cant. I dont see why just because Munster dont prioritise the Rabo that means Leinster dont. Winning the Rabo is very important to Leinster fans thats for sure.

Its only important now because you've lost 3 finals in a row and whatever about losing away from home, its pretty awful to lose at home x2 times.

Either way, it's important. And i agree, it's awful to have lost 2 finals at home.

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:I'd expect nothing less from either side. Thats not to say Leinster aren't a step further down the line to achieving an elusive double but I would be hoping my team are going out there to win every competition they are in.

You might not like to hear this, but I think Ulster could be found guilty of sending a few lambs to be slaughtered in the RDS over the last few years!

No you're right, we haven't had the depth before or at least a rotation policy to challenge on two fronts. Flip up until a season or so ago we weren't challenging on any fronts.....

You might not like to hear this but....... The times they are a-changing

Coaches have to manage their resources carefully over the course of a season and in Roux, Denton and Marshall there is an element of experimentation to see if they can cut it.
There is also the issue of injuries to key players in these positions so Joe’s hand was forced somewhat. On the evidence so far, Roux looks a bit delicate, Marshall has a bit about him but Denton has been anonymous. Of the three I think only Roux has a chance of being involved in a HEC squad and then only if Browne is injured.
I would be surprised if Denton and Marshall get much Pro12 time after Christmas.

hmmmm, I begin to detect a little grimacing grit in the teeth of some of this 'banter' - God, how I detest that word.

Anyway, ...peace brothers. Leinster will be back up to speed in a jiffy and take all the strain off the shoulders of everyone currently above them

Smile, it's only a game.

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:I'd expect nothing less from either side. Thats not to say Leinster aren't a step further down the line to achieving an elusive double but I would be hoping my team are going out there to win every competition they are in.

You might not like to hear this, but I think Ulster could be found guilty of sending a few lambs to be slaughtered in the RDS over the last few years!

No you're right, we haven't had the depth before or at least a rotation policy to challenge on two fronts. Flip up until a season or so ago we weren't challenging on any fronts.....

You might not like to hear this but....... The times they are a-changing

I'll believe that when I see Ferris warming up in the RDS at the end of December.

Well I hope he isn't because the match is at Ravenhill....

rodders wrote:Well I hope he isn't because the match is at Ravenhill....

You know what I mean

I liked that one rodders.

You too Sin.

red_stag wrote:

HERSH wrote:Time to move on guys, with the HC just around the corner and a fixture against Munster I'm sure Leinster will start to wake up and take games more seriously.

For what its worth I agree with Beshock and Hersh.

Sometimes we don't take some matches as seriously as others.

But I like it that way. I dont see that it is a problem. It is quite logical.

Leinster v Connacht won't be as big a match as Leinster v Munster - how could it be.

But equally there is no way that Tigers v London Welsh has the same intensity as Tigers v Bath.

The same can be said about every team in every sport. Its human nature.

SecretFly wrote:Yes, it seems too that outsiders looking in do the cartoon view of the league and look at Connacht, and sides like it, as the cartoon no-hopers. If the big sides try hard enough, Connacht and their like would never seriously win.

Rubbish. There is/was no guarantee that an ideal Leinster HEC side would have won that game against Connacht. To suggest so is not to have looked at the game at all. Connacht won because they were driven, they played at a high and brutal tempo all the way through and they played with clinical and skilled intent. They won because they deserved to win.

Pro12.

Post of the thread.

rodders wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:
I cant speak for the team but I can speak as a Leinster fan which you cant. I dont see why just because Munster dont prioritise the Rabo that means Leinster dont. Winning the Rabo is very important to Leinster fans thats for sure.

Leinster do not have the same objectives as Ulster and Munster. Leinster's objective should be to win the double as that would be an improvement on the last two years. With respect the double is not on either Munster or Ulster's radars right now. Ulster however, should be capable of winning something this year as they are our most improved side.

I beg to differ, I expect Ulster to be challenging on two fronts this season. The HEC will take priority when its on but I hope and expect to do a lot better than last years 5th(6th) place league finish.

Rodders, I agree with Guns on this one. Don't think ye have the required depth/experience mix quite yet. Getting there. Meanwhile... Our quality depth has been raiped by injury.

Methinks it will be a very interesting year on both fronts. Not to mention the interruption of the AI's.

Have to say Gibson, although you have better depth, I genuinely believe the starting Ulster XV this season is better overall than the Leinster starting XV. IMO we have the better back line and pack this season.

Plus I think Fitz is a pretty massive loss for Leinster. He was a key danger man last season, and linked up wonderfully with Sexton and BOD especially.

Same story with O'Brien.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Have to say Gibson, although you have better depth, I genuinely believe the starting Ulster XV this season is better overall than the Leinster starting XV. IMO we have the better back line and pack this season.

Plus I think Fitz is a pretty massive loss for Leinster. He was a key danger man last season, and linked up wonderfully with Sexton and BOD especially.

A bold statement, Rory Ulster are much improved this season but the HEC final showed that there was a gap between themselves and Leinster. The Leinster pack are able to play at a very high pace while I'm not sure some of the Ulster pack can eg Nick Williams.

It is bold indeed.

Though I am extremely optimistic this season. You are right, the Leinster pack play with more pace, but we have the grit. IMO we have the better pack in terms of the set piece. We don't have the dynamism of Healy or O'Brien though.

Some Leinster players speaking this week..

‘Fun’ was the way Mike Ross wryly described what he expected from training this week, but it’s been anything but. It seems to be all action and no talk as players leave the field to sit in a silent rage, considering their distance from the regular high standards.
“Everyone’s been in pretty bad form, it’s been a lot quieter dressing room this week,” a tone the 28-year-old feels comfortable with.

“It’s very easy to forget about Twickenham last May. It just takes one defeat and everyone in the camp is feeling it. There’s a bit of gloominess around and your confidence does take a small bit of a hit.”

Does that sound like a team who doesn't care to you?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Have to say Gibson, although you have better depth, I genuinely believe the starting Ulster XV this season is better overall than the Leinster starting XV. IMO we have the better back line and pack this season.

Plus I think Fitz is a pretty massive loss for Leinster. He was a key danger man last season, and linked up wonderfully with Sexton and BOD especially.

Ah yeah mo chara, we heard that last year. Beware The Ides Of March. And May.

FACT is, we are the best squad Europe has ever seen. Even the French recognise that now. Munster did well, shuntin their way to two Titles. We put a porno-show on for ours. That's the big differ. That's why Munster are attempting to play yer actual rugby now.

Lot of key players coming back from injury, just before and after Christmas. But. The bottom-line is, our games v ASM will define our season. It will be Hell. They will want it bad.
Trying-times for the Champs. But, through adversity - we get stronger.

Believe.

profitius wrote:Some Leinster players speaking this week..

‘Fun’ was the way Mike Ross wryly described what he expected from training this week, but it’s been anything but. It seems to be all action and no talk as players leave the field to sit in a silent rage, considering their distance from the regular high standards.
“Everyone’s been in pretty bad form, it’s been a lot quieter dressing room this week,” a tone the 28-year-old feels comfortable with.

“It’s very easy to forget about Twickenham last May. It just takes one defeat and everyone in the camp is feeling it. There’s a bit of gloominess around and your confidence does take a small bit of a hit.”

Does that sound like a team who doesn't care to you?

Man do we need Munster to focus us right now or what? The annual arranged timing of this game, is like 2 elitist clubs getting ready for the Boat Race.

And it works for us both. Every time.

Shusssh.

We'll see at the end of the season Gibbo

No one wins anything at this stage of the season, all each side can do is put themselves in the position to challenge. Things are good in the league and the HEC hasn't started yet.

My point is that I disagree that we won't be trying to win both competitions.

Rodders,
Seein as we stood together on 2nd-tier balcony at Twickers and you were a feicin class-act, I'll tell ya the Truth bud.

The PRO12 Title is well within Ulsters reach. No doubt. No blowing smoke up arses here. Its a fact, even at this stage. Ulster have the team and a better squad this year, to win it.

Problem is, just like last year, ye had to make a decision on the run-in. Ye choose the HC and made Twickers. T'was brilliant. But, it lost ye a PRO12 playoff chance on the back of it. So. Will that happen again this year? Is the depth there to achieve better?

I reckon ye will edge towards the HC. Who wouldn't? But Ulster would be far better off, long-term, concentrating on winning (or contesting the Final of) the PRO12 1st. The next HC would seem closer to them by right.

Its how Leinster made the step up.

Winning really is a habit that needs earning.

Gibbo I always respect your opinion man .

I'm a realist, not an optimist. Ulster weren't good enough last year to win silverware. KO stages of the Heino and Rabo was as good as I would have ever hoped and we achieved one of those.

I believe this team is better in terms of quality and in depth. How much better we'll find out come may.

Anscombe seems a tough nut, I think he'll rotate a lot but will expect whoever he puts out to get the job done. I like the cut of his jib.

That is all I can say sir but my expectations are higher in both competitions than a year ago.

I think the key for the Rabo is to secure your place in the top 4 as early as possible. That means you can be more flexible in selections down the stretch. There will be a good run over Christmas and then games during the 6N break. If they get targetted, with a view to getting some away wins on the board, it has to be the key