Bok team to be slaughtered at Dunedin.

[Biltong]

First topic message reminder :

The Springbok team that will face New Zealand in the fourth Test in The Castle Rugby Championship in Dunedin on Saturday shows two changes from the side that played Australia last weekend.

Both changes are in the forwards, where lock Flip van der Merwe replaces the suspended Eben Etzebeth while Francois Louw comes in for Marcell Coetzee at flank.

There are four more changes on the bench, where Coetzee joins Dean Greyling, Andries Bekker and Juan de Jongh amongst the replacements.
“The New Zealanders are good on the ground which is why we decided to go for a specialist openside flank in Francois,” said Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer.

“Marcell has been very good this season and has played a lot of rugby, but in this match we feel he will be more useful as an impact option.”
Jannie du Plessis has been named at tighthead prop despite struggling with a hamstring niggle. Meyer said the Springboks’ medical team is working very hard on the injured players and that Du Plessis will be given until Friday to fully shake off his injury, but if he fails to recover in time, Pat Cilliers will start in the No 3-shirt.

“We will not take any chances with injured players and we have time to get him and Pat (Cilliers) match ready,” said Meyer.
Greyling will be on the bench to provide prop cover, while Bekker takes over from Van der Merwe in the No 18 shirt. De Jongh comes in for Lwazi Mvovo on the bench.

The Springboks’ starting XV have a combined total of 482 Test caps – 136 in the forwards and 346 in the backline.

The Springbok team to face New Zealand in Dunedin is:

Position Name Province Test Caps
15 Zane Kirchner Vodacom Blue Bulls 18
14 Bryan Habana DHL Western Province 80
13 Jean de Villiers (captain) DHL Western Province 78
12 Frans Steyn The Sharks 52
11 Francois Hougaard Vodacom Blue Bulls 21
10 Morné Steyn Vodacom Blue Bulls 40
9 Ruan Pienaar Ulster, N-Ireland 57
8 Duane Vermeulen DHL Western Province 1
7 Willem Alberts The Sharks 14
6 Francois Louw Bath, England 11
5 Juandré Kruger Vodacom Blue Bulls 4
4 Flip van der Merwe Vodacom Blue Bulls 17
3 Jannie du Plessis The Sharks 36
2 Adriaan Strauss (vice-captain) Toyota FS Cheetahs 15
1 Tendai Mtawarira The Sharks 38
Replacements
16 Tiaan Liebenberg DHL Western Province 2
17 Dean Greyling Vodacom Blue Bulls 2
18 Andries Bekker DHL Western Province 26
19 Marcell Coetzee The Sharks 6
20 Johan Goosen Toyota FS Cheetahs 1
21 Juan de Jongh DHL Western Province 10
22 Pat Lambie The Sharks 14

[offload]

Who would want to be wearing 17 right now.

[thebluesmancometh]

What a strange game, SA performanced is just inept, the players are there, which is an odd thing to say because of injuries but the coaching staff havnt put any belief, structure or competence into them.

For the first time I see the coaching team as a problem.

[FerN]

Well played All Blacks.

This match just showed now that Morne's selection can't be justified now any more.

[maestegmafia]

Well played both teams, great game of rugby after last nights terrible excuses.

SA were as unlucky as the ABs were clinical.

[kiakahaaotearoa]

What a road crash of a game. I can see Meyer saying we had the game to win but we didn't score our goals. It would've been better for SA to lose by many and Morné Steyn to have a similar kind of game. The sad fact is they should've won but their tactics didn't need to be so negative. Far too much aimless kicking and Steyn seems incapable of not putting boot to ball.

What a dire game and ABs can only be happy they denied a bonus point. That was a truly disappointing performance and the only positive I could think of was the lineout but then that lineout close to the end and I'm not so sure.

SA didn't have their best squad by any stretch but they had opportunities. Poor handling out wide and basic passes let them down. Far too much kicking when they had attacking ball. Sure they can have their territory gameplan but when you get the ball back you can use it. You don't have to kick it back straight away. That was a truly awful spectacle and I think NZ can consider themselves very lucky to have that result on the scoreboard.

[offload]

Well played both teams, great game of rugby after last nights terrible excuses.

SA were as unlucky as the ABs were clinical.

Can't agree that is was unlucky Maesteg. Poor decision making and poor kicking let down a good performance by their pack. SA had more than nough ball to win.

[chewed_mintie]

haha cracking "charge" to the face on mccaw there, get than man a medal

what a tool

[blackcanelion]

Probably a game the boks lost rather than we won. They've got two home games. Should be interesting. It looks like a throw back to 2008/9. I'm not against good tactical kicking and mauling. But I find it uninspiring when this is the dominant method of attack. I thought they had plenty of opportunities to exploit with ball in hand.

[Mr Fishpaste]

Gee that was a frustrating game: It was within the Boks' grasp but: Morne missed 18 points (1 out of 6 kicks: surely that must be his last game) And Dean Greyling scored 9 points for the All Blacks. What a twerp - He must never put a Bok jersey on again.

In my opinion that was a game that the Boks lost more than one that the AB's won (although credit to them they did what they had to do and used the opportunities that they had!!)
On a side note: I wonder how much of Biltong's house is still standing? He must be seething...

[LondonTiger]

I went swimming with my kids, intending to watch second half - but must have got the kick off time wrong.

Was the game really as poor as majority of the posts indicate?

What happened to McCaw?

ta.

[thebluesmancometh]

I gotta disagree with those who say SA should've won, those kicks from Steyn of 50m or so are pot luck sometimes, the decisions to keep kicking them at goal was a poor one, and the pressure really tells.

Kicks at goal aren't missed points in my eyes, to be a missed point they have to be kickable around 9 times out of 10, pot shots don't count.

[offload]

I gotta disagree with those who say SA should've won, those kicks from Steyn of 50m or so are pot luck sometimes, the decisions to keep kicking them at goal was a poor one, and the pressure really tells.

Kicks at goal aren't missed points in my eyes, to be a missed point they have to be kickable around 9 times out of 10, pot shots don't count.

I agree It's not that they should have won, but they could have won.

[thebluesmancometh]

offload

I agree, they were in the game, and on another day ye they couldve won. But I'd say that they lose that game 8 times out of 10.

IMO the best goalkicker in world rugby at distance at present is 1/2p (on current form) and SA lose that game more often than not with him kicking.

[Mr Fishpaste]

I wasn't even including Frans Steyns long range attempts. Morne missed 5, of which perhaps one or two were long range efforts. Kirchner and Habana managed to butcher a basic try opportunity in the first five minutes, and Greyling was literally given the ball 2 metres from an open tryline with no one near by to tackle him....and he dropped it!!

[thebluesmancometh]

fish

Are you talking from the lineout? thats a 50/50 ball, arms up and balls there before you see it, just didnt go his way.

The early chance was a bit of a waste, but then the kiwis wasted a few opportunities too.

My point is Steyn only really missed 2 he shouldve got, and 3 he may have hit on another day.

[Mr Fishpaste]

So I suppose when I say that the Boks should have won I mean: they had the forward ascendency for most of the game they had a multitude of kicking and try-scoring opportunities (more than had the ABs) and didn't take them...

[Mr Fishpaste]

The extra frustration with Morne is that he is supposedly in the team because it is 'essential to have you best goal kicker on the park to keep the score-board ticking over, even if it means sacrificing attacking flair' (-the H. Meyer school of Rugby)...but as it turned out Morne missed his kicks and sacrificed back-line attacking flair.

[thebluesmancometh]

I agree with you the pack was pretty good, but I wouldn't say they had multitudes of opportunities the kiwi's didn't.

They may have worked a few more into their game but poor execution and most importantly very poor decision making let them down.

On another day maybe they would've put them away, but on another day maybe they wouldn't have got them... swings and roundabouts.

[Mr Fishpaste]

I agree with you the pack was pretty good, but I wouldn't say they had multitudes of opportunities the kiwi's didn't.

They may have worked a few more into their game but poor execution and most importantly very poor decision making let them down.

On another day maybe they would've put them away, but on another day maybe they wouldn't have got them... swings and roundabouts.

That's exactly it. The forwards set a solid platform (at least until the 60min mark) and had the AB's under pressure, but the Bok-Backline-Brainstrust could do nothing with it. My feeling (and incidently Nick Mallet agrees ) that if Goosen had been on from the start, that solid forward platform would have been capitalised upon.

[doctor_grey]

But boys, it is also game plan, not just replacing one player. We could put anyone back there but without the game plan to take advantage, the players won't be able to let go. Yes, Morné Steyn was very poor, but to put Goosen in there without a change in plan to utilise his skill sets, then little will change.

Next match it seems apparent Goosen should start, Lambie on the bench and plan to attack.

[Guest]

Would a non-kicking game plan with Goosen suit the SA forwards, say at the pace at which the ABs play? Ball in hand means making a lot of breakdowns to retain possession doesnt it?

[doctor_grey]

A balanced game plan should suit all the players. It is easier playing go forward Rugby rather than putting a lot of muscle around and then watching the ball kicked away to the opposition.

[Guest]

True Doc, 'balance' being key. Goosen probably has a decent boot, being SA, so it wouldn't just be non-stop running where the big lumps get tuckered out.

[anotherworldofpain]

A real test match. SA had every chance to win it, but while they could convert the pressure to chances, they couldn't make the chances into points.

I can't help but get a feeling that NZ did just enough to win and did not take this SA combinator as seriously as they might have needed to. They seemed to move up a gear for about 10 minutes near the end and otherwise were very flat.

It must be very frustrating for a SA fan to see so many positive signs but ultimately have falled short for the same old reasons: kicking ball away = try to NZ.

[Mr Fishpaste]

I agree that it is also a game plan thing, but the truth is, Morne is not even executing the game plan well: it is supposed to revolve around his alledgedly metronomic kicking. In S15, statistically speaking, Goosen and Lambie were both better kickers than Morne.

[drsambo1928]

I've fought Steyn's corner many tmes on 606 but i just can't do it anymore. He is vital for the gameplan and without him working well, then SA are always gonna struggle.

[anotherworldofpain]

To be fair it is not just Morne's tactical kicking that lets SA down, the kicking from 9 was also woeful and other players were responsible for kicking the ball away when they should have kept in hand.

[drsambo1928]

Sure there were other players but Morne needs to be on his game, he is the most crucial player in the game plan.

[anotherworldofpain]

I don't think Julian Savea is the winger the All Blacks are looking for either.

[drsambo1928]

Savea i feel got too hyped up after the Ireland debut and now everyone is expecting something special every match. I remember after the under 20 world championship there was a fair bit of hype about him like calling him the next Lomu, but it died down and after his debut it has gone up again.

[anotherworldofpain]

Surely Greyling is at least as much to blame for the loss than Steyn...and therefore Meyer for the selection when everyone predict already this will happen?

Greyling cost the game, then cost the bonus point meaning SA no chance to win the tournament.

[chewed_mintie]

I don't subscribe to any theories about 'if SA had kicked all their points they would have won' or any team for that matter. Any intellectual mind will know that to change one part of history would completely alter the space/time continuum (so says Doc Brown) so had SA kicked one of the goals everything from that point on would have been different to the outcome which occurred!

[drsambo1928]

I don't subscribe to any theories about 'if SA had kicked all their points they would have won' or any team for that matter. Any intellectual mind will know that to change one part of history would completely alter the space/time continuum (so says Doc Brown) so had SA kicked one of the goals everything from that point on would have been different to the outcome which occurred!

Ah yeah, what he said.

[anotherworldofpain]

On the other hand chewed_mintie, if the space-time continuum wasn't warped already then those kicks would probably have gone over.

[emack2]

A brilliant match well played by both sides,Bok versus All Blacks dogfight.
One of the best matches i`ve watched all year,all the goal kickers seemed to
have problems.At least two looked like they were going over then drifted away
may be stadium problem when full.AllBlacks need a losing bonus point to clinch it from 2 games at least.Boks two wins with bonus points the ABs get nothing and can still win it.After today must fancy there chances at home.

[Taylorman]

The thing about Morne Steyn is EXACTLY this was predicted at the beginning of the season. I (and many others) have said he will be weak through the year and Meyer will keep on picking him until he has a shocker. I said last week he doesnt like the AB's, he wont play well, and is useless. It was almost with absolute certainty he was going to have a shocker.

All of that and more was realised. Steyns continued selection this year has to be one of the most criminal selections in test match history. SA have now lost 2 tests and drawn two against lower ranked sudes primarily because of that one selection.

When Goosen came on he did nothing more than any non M Steyn international 10 would have done so in itself he wasnt anything special. The goal was good, but Beale did the same kick an hour later. What was good about it was Steyn WASNT there. It was his absence that put back the prickly little hairs on the back of the neck in the last 20, where I was thinking now they must might have a chance.

The AB's weathered the rest but question for SA is how long does it take for Meyer to learn things? How many tests is he prepared to continuously give up for the sake of his archaic beliefs.

Goosen will become the next Steyn and he'll cling to him in the same way.

A word about Habana as well.

It seems habanas success can be attributed to the fact that he plays in the opposite direction of the gameplan.

Last night he was made to chase up and down after one silly kick after another and the one opprortunity that came his way through orthodox movement of the ball through the backs in the beginning, he fluffed, or at least the pass to him was fluffed, but he could have put himself in a better position than nearly in front of the ball passer.

In any case, like last week he said stuff it, Im doing my own thing, took the ball to the line and went on his own.

Like last week, where he pushed past the static Ruan to get the ball over the line Habanas career is notable for the fact that few of his tries are part of any gameplan. he gets frustrated, and does his own thing.

[Taylorman]

In saying that, SA would normally have made the most of this and its one that got away. But at no point was I concerned we would lose, especially as kicks kept missing.

SA have fiiiiiiinallllllly got to the point where steyn is the wrong option so that's a good thing. Goosen looked the part so this team is going to be worth watching. Next to go will be jdv who's non ability to create opportunities will be under the spotlight now with goosen chucking the ball his way more often.

Honestly the pair were terrible weren't they. NZ won a match they could have lost but the error rate from SA just said a big loud...'we don't want this one'...

[Biltong]

When Goosen came on there was an immediate difference in the backline, Goosen played much flatter and attacked the gain line, he injected pace into the backline and everyone lifted, he even beat a few defenders and showed his ability to mix it up, the outside players recieved the ball in a better position.

The whole backline's passes seemed more crisp and accurate and dare I say the enthusiasm in the backs lifted.

The importance of this loss cannot be under estimated, there has been no better proof for Meyer this season where his forwards played well and provided the platform for Steyn to control the match, he failed miserably and missed his kicks.

What better evidence could Meyer get?

[emack2]

Morning gentlemen,a few observations WHAT exactly was the Bok gameplan?Hustle the AB`s knock them out off there stride,stop them playing milk penalties?PARTIAL success.BUT the kick/chase game was designed for wet and muddy conditions not an indoor Arena.ALL the goal kickers had problems with the goal kicking in that stadium some looked certs before just deviating.A good Captain/Coach would have kicked for territory and trusted his line out/maul to produce the goods.Apart from hail mary pass,or a desperate kick and chase attempt Boks had few try scoring chances.All the tries scored were excellent,one a team try ,two individual brilliance.Weepu starting for whatever reason was`nt a success he lacks fitness but iis still a useful game closer.Every time the Boks scored within minutes the AllBlacks struck back signs of a good side.The Bok management obviously don`t trust there Lineout,most of the long range penalties would have been.kick to the corner and the rolling maul in the Matfielld/Botha days.The Ref was pretty pedantic at penalties at scrum/breakdown but was even handed to both sides you can`t ask for more.
The yellow card effected the game badly pretty debatable should have been red.
Surprised Bekker did`nt start is it an injury thing?Morne Steyn is going thru a bad patch with his goal kicking and has lost confidence.Happened to Johnny Wilkinson and Don Clarke in the past,but they were vital to the game plan.Solution was simple get another kicker,Morne Steyn is different but for his goal kicking he is average.Rest him let him get his game back then pick him if you think he`s up to it.As to game plans just kick and chase or non -stop running both are flawed if you don`t have an alternative plan available.The All Blacks have yet to really fire,and are not really injury effected much and the new boys are bedding in.Rob Louw picked to cancel out McCaw that did`nt work did it he was immense.Since his operation and back on two feet he is back to his immense best,THE best. Having said that Louw had a good game too,Joburg should be a cracker.Hopefully Dan the man will start there Cruden for the Argies,Carter for the Boks.Savea looked a little out of it but it wasn`t a game for backs.New Prop has done little to prove he is as good or better than Wyatt Crockett or Ben Franks.Saw little of Messam really and that isn`t a criticism probably means he was doing the tough yards a REAL forwards job!!!
Boks have two home games to finish,but for indifferent goal kicking could have won all of there last three.

[Taylorman]

Well at least I can stop ranting about steyn. Mind you, meyer hasn't dropped steyn yet. Boks will be back at home for two matches, a place where Steyn has actually done well so he might still pick him.

It all depends how meyer uses goosen. None of goosens abilities or talents have anything to do with meyer so will he really have the coaching ability to bring out his best?

Or will he convince himself yet again its a steyn confidence thing. Jurys out on that one...
Agree re weepu alan...second half player only. There's a few ifs this tournament. Sure if steyn had have kicked his goals against argentina but then to flog a dead horse you can only if so much.

Argie could also have two from four if they held off against both oz and SA as well.

Tough match though and the thuggery elements seen in eben and grayling in consecutive matches tends to confirm the frustration SA are feeling.

[anotherworldofpain]

The thing about Morne Steyn is EXACTLY this was predicted at the beginning of the season. I (and many others) have said he will be weak through the year and Meyer will keep on picking him until he has a shocker. I said last week he doesnt like the AB's, he wont play well, and is useless. It was almost with absolute certainty he was going to have a shocker.

All of that and more was realised. Steyns continued selection this year has to be one of the most criminal selections in test match history. SA have now lost 2 tests and drawn two against lower ranked sudes primarily because of that one selection.

When Goosen came on he did nothing more than any non M Steyn international 10 would have done so in itself he wasnt anything special. The goal was good, but Beale did the same kick an hour later. What was good about it was Steyn WASNT there. It was his absence that put back the prickly little hairs on the back of the neck in the last 20, where I was thinking now they must might have a chance.

The AB's weathered the rest but question for SA is how long does it take for Meyer to learn things? How many tests is he prepared to continuously give up for the sake of his archaic beliefs.

Goosen will become the next Steyn and he'll cling to him in the same way.

A word about Habana as well.

It seems habanas success can be attributed to the fact that he plays in the opposite direction of the gameplan.

Last night he was made to chase up and down after one silly kick after another and the one opprortunity that came his way through orthodox movement of the ball through the backs in the beginning, he fluffed, or at least the pass to him was fluffed, but he could have put himself in a better position than nearly in front of the ball passer.

In any case, like last week he said stuff it, Im doing my own thing, took the ball to the line and went on his own.

Like last week, where he pushed past the static Ruan to get the ball over the line Habanas career is notable for the fact that few of his tries are part of any gameplan. he gets frustrated, and does his own thing.

All good points, but another point to add is that exactly the same thing happen the week before. Steyn went off with the "eye injury" or maybe some wounded pride, and goosen and lambie came on and suddenly the Boks were fluent and running from everywhere, breaking tackles and seemed to be inevitable they would break through. When Steyn is on you know the try line is going to be largely safe unless defending a lineout drive near the line.

I'm not a fan of Kirchner either, but he does have one hell of a punt on him.

[Taylorman]

And other than the charge down type try of f steyn you know SA aren't going to win when more than three behind with less than ten to go. They simply don't know what to do other than keep banging away. Their dominating gameplan doesn't allow for being behind at that point. Even when they more or less always are recently.

I still believe they should have at least a good a side as NZ but they don't know how to get there.

With goosen they now need to be careful how they play him. Another steyn or his own style? Meyer isn't the sharpest pencil in the drawer.

[Biltong]

Goosen will play his own style within the gameplan

The gameplan is territory based, once in range Goosen's natural talent will provide the necessary nous.

[Mr Fishpaste]

Media reports that Meyer says that Goosen is his long term preference but he is wanting to let him into test rugby slowly. If that is the case, then fair enough...but I think the home leg will be a good opportunity to give him at least a full half to play.

Hopefully JP Pietersen can come back to fitness and replace JdV....on can live in hope...

[Biltong]

Well jp pietersen fractured his thumb on 6th August, and they said 6-8 weeks, so maybe he'll be back, but probably only on the bench.

[Taylorman]

Goosen looked ok in terms of composure and got a good welcome from nonu but held up well. His intro has been fairly light so that parts been good. Just the injury rehab to get through and back to match fitness. Should play some currie cup this weekend.

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