Simpson-Daniel for the Lions

Clearly the fella can not be called up to the England squad without breaking down the moment he walks in to Penny Hill, however, can the Lions overlook his considerable talents? Furthermore, would he make the test team?

Burns and Simpson-Daniel as outside bets for the Lions.

No. That was easy.

Ignoring the fact that he cannot get past England's choices you also have North Cuthbert Halfpenny Bowe McVisser etc who are all well ahead of him.

doctornickolas wrote:No. That was easy.

Ignoring the fact that he cannot get past England's choices you also have North Cuthbert Halfpenny Bowe McVisser etc who are all well ahead of him.

It's not that he cannot get past England's wingers, at 30 he is deemed too old and so will not be picked regardless by Lancaster despite the fact he is the form winger by a country mile. He's more skillful than any you mention, but without playing at International level and with Glaws not being in the HC I can't ever see him being picked.

Why he hasnt been in the England team is a mystery. He is a great call for the Lions. Hope he keeps form and fitness, he is a very good player, loved the try he set up vs Tigers last week from the halfway line.

HongKongCherry wrote:

doctornickolas wrote:No. That was easy.

Ignoring the fact that he cannot get past England's choices you also have North Cuthbert Halfpenny Bowe McVisser etc who are all well ahead of him.

It's not that he cannot get past England's wingers, at 30 he is deemed too old and so will not be picked regardless by Lancaster despite the fact he is the form winger by a country mile. He's more skillful than any you mention, but without playing at International level and with Glaws not being in the HC I can't ever see him being picked.

Varndell, Wade and Jess may argue against that.

YES !

A good AP winger.....Lions winger? Er no

Unfortunately JSD is doomed to be the Matt LeTissier of the England and Lions teams.

maestegmafia wrote:Why he hasnt been in the England team is a mystery.

It always seemed that he picked up a knock just as a new team was being put together. Elsewhere on these forums, someone noted that he was never able to build up a run of performances which made him a certain pick when he returned from those injuries. He didn't ever have a shocker to put him out of favour.

Perhaps others can remember the chronology a bit better and point out where he was passed over for selection, and where instead he just wasn't available. Was he ever in contention for a 2007 World Cup spot? Where was he when Lesley Vainikolo was being given a run on the wing? Or when Johnson fielded Banahan & Cueto on the wings with Monye at full back?

His defence can be awful, that's why he isn't a regular int

Sir Clive was at Kingsholm Saturday and someone tweeted asking if he regretted not playing Sinbad more, SCW replied "he was in the team at one stage, injuries & emergence of Robinson / Cohen /,Lewsey / Balshaw made it tough 4 him -great player".

Seems fair enough, just a shame we opted for donkeys after that.

With so many top wingers playing for their respective Countries I caqnt see him getting the nod over them

Sgt_Pooly wrote:His defence can be awful, that's why he isn't a regular int

No - it was down to unfortunate injuries at the wrong & unfortunately regular times.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:His defence can be awful, that's why he isn't a regular int

No - it was down to unfortunate injuries at the wrong & unfortunately regular times.

A curse for so many talented players.

Shame England decided not to persist with him despite injuries though, his vision is just what England need in their backline, especially with Foden out, leaving Flood the only creative player.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:His defence can be awful, that's why he isn't a regular int

No - it was down to unfortunate injuries at the wrong & unfortunately regular times.

Utter tosh.

He's been injury free for around 2/3 seasons and the closest he came to a call up was a poor defensive showing for the Saxons against the mighty Russia.

JSD is just another one of these 606 players that can do no wrong as he puts in the odd good display at AP level so must be world class.

HongKongCherry wrote:

doctornickolas wrote:No. That was easy.

Ignoring the fact that he cannot get past England's choices you also have North Cuthbert Halfpenny Bowe McVisser etc who are all well ahead of him.

It's not that he cannot get past England's wingers, at 30 he is deemed too old and so will not be picked regardless by Lancaster despite the fact he is the form winger by a country mile. He's more skillful than any you mention, but without playing at International level and with Glaws not being in the HC I can't ever see him being picked.

Form winger by a country mile?

2 tries in 7 AP games hardly smacks of a player like that.

In the try stats he is behind Jess,Eastmond,Brown (whose not a winger),Wade,Varndell,Ashton,Monye,Lemi etc.

There has always been a kind of morbid (in the sense that his continual omission from the EPS seems to depress certain people) fascination on 606 with this Sinbad bloke....

Really, he aint that good. Or should I say, when he's good, he's pretty good but when he's not, he's nothing at all special - that's if you can get past his laminated sick note.

Wade and Varndell are the form English wingers...and Eastmond is certainly making himself known (though i see him moving to 10 or centre)

If your looking for a winger with that x factor whose a bolter...then id say Wade. He's the future, an unknown and could have a field day in Oz.

I dont however see any bolters coming in the wing department....

Varndell is lazy, always was, always will be.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:His defence can be awful, that's why he isn't a regular int

No - it was down to unfortunate injuries at the wrong & unfortunately regular times.

Utter tosh.

He's been injury free for around 2/3 seasons and the closest he came to a call up was a poor defensive showing for the Saxons against the mighty Russia.

JSD is just another one of these 606 players that can do no wrong as he puts in the odd good display at AP level so must be world class.

Sorry but that is utter tosh too! There is no doubt Sinbad's defence is not as strong as his attack as he does have a tendency to rush in, but he rarely has a poor game defensively. If his defence were that bad he'd be targeted by opposition teams, if they do they're not very successful at exploiting it. He hasn't had any bad injuries in the last few years, but certainly hasn't been injury free and once again it affected him when in the squad for the 2011 world cup, where he was dropped due to an injury. If you were to watch him week in week out you'd realise that he puts in more than the odd good display.

beshocked wrote:

HongKongCherry wrote:

doctornickolas wrote:No. That was easy.

Ignoring the fact that he cannot get past England's choices you also have North Cuthbert Halfpenny Bowe McVisser etc who are all well ahead of him.

It's not that he cannot get past England's wingers, at 30 he is deemed too old and so will not be picked regardless by Lancaster despite the fact he is the form winger by a country mile. He's more skillful than any you mention, but without playing at International level and with Glaws not being in the HC I can't ever see him being picked.

Form winger by a country mile?

2 tries in 7 AP games hardly smacks of a player like that.

In the try stats he is behind Jess,Eastmond,Brown (whose not a winger),Wade,Varndell,Ashton,Monye,Lemi etc.

Come on beshocked are you really just basing that on a single stat? You only have to look at how many tries he has created to see why I suggest he's the form winger. The likes of Wade and Varndell are getting on the end of the moves and doing well, but Sinbad is creating the tries for us. Take Qera's against Tigers and Knight's against Welsh all created by moments of excellence that very few of the above could do.

Lies, damn lies and statistics...

I take it you're a Gloucester fan HKC?

Your bias shines through!

The fact is if his defence was up to scratch he'd have been involved for England for the last 2/3 years.

Jimpy wrote:Lies, damn lies and statistics...

60% of the time it works everytime

HongKongCherry wrote:

beshocked wrote:

HongKongCherry wrote:

doctornickolas wrote:No. That was easy.

Ignoring the fact that he cannot get past England's choices you also have North Cuthbert Halfpenny Bowe McVisser etc who are all well ahead of him.

It's not that he cannot get past England's wingers, at 30 he is deemed too old and so will not be picked regardless by Lancaster despite the fact he is the form winger by a country mile. He's more skillful than any you mention, but without playing at International level and with Glaws not being in the HC I can't ever see him being picked.

Form winger by a country mile?

2 tries in 7 AP games hardly smacks of a player like that.

In the try stats he is behind Jess,Eastmond,Brown (whose not a winger),Wade,Varndell,Ashton,Monye,Lemi etc.

Come on beshocked are you really just basing that on a single stat? You only have to look at how many tries he has created to see why I suggest he's the form winger. The likes of Wade and Varndell are getting on the end of the moves and doing well, but Sinbad is creating the tries for us. Take Qera's against Tigers and Knight's against Welsh all created by moments of excellence that very few of the above could do.

Exactly, being a winger and in form one is more than just scoring tries. In my mind, a great winger doesn't need to have a great try scoring record and a winger with a great try scoring record isn't neccessarily a great winger

A survey has shown that 7 out of 10 people when questioned, think that those who endlessly regurgitate statistics on public forums not only bore the cack out of everyone else, but probably have little willies too.

Too small for the 2003 era and at that age he simply wasn't better than lewsey, Cohen, Robinson and Luger. Kept getting injured over and over again when he was given his chance but should have made the last last world cup ahead of banahan. Awesome player but unlucky with injuries and engaldn managers, if he's been playing for a different club he'd probably have more caps....managers for some reason tend to snub gloucester ?

sirtidychris wrote:managers for some reason tend to snub gloucester ?

Can't blame them, seems logical

Bathite wrote:

sirtidychris wrote:managers for some reason tend to snub gloucester ?

Can't blame them, seems logical

Couldn't agree more. England need to be picking the likes of Matt Bananaman instead

nah, Guscott, Perry and Grewcock

Bathite wrote:nah, Guscott, Perry and Grewcock

Right, I've had a look back at Sinbad's career and this is a rough idea of how it went for him.

He scored two tries against Australia at Twickenham in 2002 and then got glandular fever. A back problem took him out of contention for a World Cup spot. He was injured for the 2004 Autumn Internationals and didn't have any game time when the 2005 Six Nations rolled around.

Andy Robinson chose him in the centre for the 2005 Autumn Internationals but he got injured against Samoa, and was off at half time. He was chosen to tour Australia in 2006. He got a dead leg which put him in hospital, and he missed both Tests. In pre-season training with Gloucester, he fractured his collarbone and was effectively out of contention for the 2006 Autumn games.

England were in turmoil at this point with Andy Robinson sacked in November 2006. Ashton's appointment meant Jason Robinson agreed to return to international rugby. When he was sick during the 2007 Six Nations, Ashton gave Strettle his first cap and picked Lewsey on the wing.

Ashton did take Simpson Daniel to South Africa in summer 2007. He managed a try when he came on as a replacement in that horror 58-10 first Test loss but was then hit by the stomach bug which ravaged the squad out there. Ashton then left him out of his provisional 43 man 2007 World Cup squad, citing his "lack of durability". He eventually took Lewsey, Robinson, Cueto and Sackey, with Tait also offering cover.

In December 2007, Simpson Daniel was again being talked about for the 2008 Six Nations. Here's how the Guardian described it:

If 2008 pans out as neatly for the grievously ill-starred English winger, the whole country will finally appreciate what Cherry and White supporters take for granted...If Simpson-Daniel can stay fit - and it remains the biggest "if" in the English game, aside from Jonny Wilkinson's health and happiness - there is still time for the most unfulfilled talent of his generation to gallop back into international contention...Sadly, as successive English coaches have found, there is a world of difference between picking "Sinbad" and actually getting him on the field. His record makes the notoriously fragile footballer Darren Anderton look positively robust..

..."The sad thing is I've had a decent run of matches for Gloucester," he said. "On the international front, though, it's mostly been a case of poor timing and bad luck. But what can I do? I'm not going to cry about it. [Not being picked for the World Cup] was hard to take but I've got myself fit again, my form is getting better and I'm feeling generally good. I do wish the whole squad hadn't picked up that bug in South Africa. But that's gone."

Brian Ashton didn't pick him. Instead he chose the other Gloucester wing, Vainikolo, alongside Strettle, Sackey and Cueto, with Tait also as cover. Sinbad was off with the Saxons playing Italy. He was added to the squad when Strettle picked up an injury but didn't play. This looks like one of the biggest missed opportunities, given that Simpson Daniel was later named Guinness Premiership Player of The Season for 2007-8.

Brian Ashton lost his job after that Six Nations. Simpson Daniel missed the 2008 New Zealand tour to have a shoulder operation. The squad eventually included Strettle, Varndell and Topsy Ojo. In the end, perhaps it wasn't such a bad tour to miss. Strettle and Ojo were both involved in off the field nonsense which helped see them relegated from the elite squad.

Come the 2008 Autumn Internationals, Simpson Daniel was selected in Martin Johnson's senior squad and was ready once again to make an impact for England. He was also being spoken of as a potential Lions tourist, should he be able to repeat his performance for Gloucester the previous season. He probably would have been paired with Sackey on the other wing. In a Heineken Cup Match against Cardiff Blues in October, however, he damaged his ankle ligaments, needed surgery and was out for three months.

Martin Johnson dropped Simpson Daniel from the elite squad in January 2009, bringing in Ugo Monye who had been added in the Autumn. Monye went on to be selected for the Lions tour later that year. There was a Telegraph piece with the title "England an open wound for James Simpson-Daniel":

Once again he finds himself outside an England squad, looking in from afar as the elite playing party go through their paces in the Algarve ahead of next week's opener to the Six Nations championship against Italy. Calamity has come calling on Simpson-Daniel's door so often since he won the first of only 10 caps seven years ago that he ought to be on first-name terms with the unwanted visitor. He is only two games into his comeback and understandably has been demoted to the Saxons squad.

"Given that I hadn't been playing, dropping down ought not to hurt but it does," Simpson-Daniel said. "I guess the day it doesn't, is the day I ought to retire. You do get down in the dumps. How could you not? I've had one half-decent game for England. That's not much on your track record, is it? If it were all to finish tomorrow, that's what would be against my name: injured a lot, and not happy with his performances for England. So, you've got to get back out there and show what you can offer."

There now seems to have been another major turning point in his England career. Simpson Daniel was in the Saxons squad and they had Churchill Cup fixtures that summer. Better still, he was sounded out about touring with the senior squad in Argentina. He declined to go. He said later "I didn't do myself any favours when I didn't tour. I had my wedding coming up and I felt I needed a rest and a full pre-season."

In July, when the EPS selections were made again, he wasn't included in either elite squad. Nor did his name appear when the revised squads were announced in October 2009, so he didn't take part in the 2009 Autumn Internationals. In retrospect, that was a big missed opportunity for him because that was the run of games which saw a back three of Banahan, Cueto and Monye at full back.

Come January 2010, Simpson Daniel still wasn't included in either elite squad selection. By his own admission, he had a poor start to the season, which probably played a role. The EPS wingers were Monye, Cueto and Banahan with Foden and Armitage at full back. Armitage could cover wing as could Tait, who was also there. Chris Ashton had been in the Saxons but was promoted to the senior squad to fill a space left by Phil Vickery's injury.

The other wingers left in the Saxons were Sackey and Strettle. Noah Cato and Miles Benjamin both played in the Saxons win over the Wolfhounds at the end of January so they would have been added later.

So Sinbad missed out on the 2010 Six Nations as well. As it turned out, he hit a purple patch for Gloucester around February/March that year, scoring nine tries in five games, including two hat-tricks. That's when he came back onto the radar for a possible spot on the 2010 tour. Brian Smith apparently spoke to him around this time. He joined England's summer camp but missed some of it after his wife went into labour. He was overlooked again for the final selection. Smith told him later that they had decided to go with Strettle instead, and hinted that his unwillingness to tour in 2009 had counted against him.

That 2010 tour marked a turning point in the fortunes of Johnson's England. By the time of the 2010 Autumn Internationals, Johnson would have felt like he had come up with the right mix, especially with the win over Australia at Twickenham. Simpson Daniel wasn't in the frame, and didn't get picked for the following year's Six Nations, as Johnson tried to establish settled combinations.

Almost out of the blue, Johnson did name him in his 43-man World Cup Squad, which was a small improvement on being ignored by Brian Ashton four years earlier. He was then cut at the beginning of August along with Strettle, Worsley, Chuter and Waldrom.

Lancaster picked Sharples, Strettle and Ashton for the 2012 Six Nations, with the likes of Armitage, Banahan, Monye, Joseph and Jonny May in the Saxons. Who knows whether Simpson Daniel was on his radar, but he wouldn't have dealt with him as part of one of his Saxons squads.

HongKongCherry wrote:
Sorry but that is utter tosh too! There is no doubt Sinbad's defence is not as strong as his attack as he does have a tendency to rush in, but he rarely has a poor game defensively. If his defence were that bad he'd be targeted by opposition teams, if they do they're not very successful at exploiting it. He hasn't had any bad injuries in the last few years, but certainly hasn't been injury free and once again it affected him when in the squad for the 2011 world cup, where he was dropped due to an injury. If you were to watch him week in week out you'd realise that he puts in more than the odd good display.

I'm pretty sure he was just dropped:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/14381578

Wow RugbyFan, excellent article.

Jimpy wrote:A survey has shown that 7 out of 10 people when questioned, think that those who endlessly regurgitate statistics on public forums not only bore the cack out of everyone else, but probably have little willies too.

Nice work on that regurgitating that statistic

Effervescing Elephant wrote:Wow RugbyFan, excellent article.

+1

thomh wrote:

HongKongCherry wrote:
Sorry but that is utter tosh too! There is no doubt Sinbad's defence is not as strong as his attack as he does have a tendency to rush in, but he rarely has a poor game defensively. If his defence were that bad he'd be targeted by opposition teams, if they do they're not very successful at exploiting it. He hasn't had any bad injuries in the last few years, but certainly hasn't been injury free and once again it affected him when in the squad for the 2011 world cup, where he was dropped due to an injury. If you were to watch him week in week out you'd realise that he puts in more than the odd good display.

I'm pretty sure he was just dropped:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/14381578

I shall remain defiant in adversity. I should have been clearer, he'd had an injury and so had missed a fair amount of training and was not fully fit.

There was an article in our local rag recently that gave Sinbad's account http://www.thisisgloucestershire.co.uk/Gloucester-Rugby-Sinbad-England-chances/story-17029361-detail/story.html

Well researched without doubt. Reads a bit like an "if only" tbh.

Not at any point does it actually say perhaps he just hasn't been good enough, which is the real reason.

You can't fall asleep in defence like JSD does and make a top Int winger.

Sinbad was doing this 10 years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_mLbOP2oTA

And is still doing it today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hdq6xy0NYhA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KAN84ixyRs

Many B&I wingers are speed brutes, but not many wingers have Sinbad's step, now that Shane has retired.

But a lot of B&I wingers can defend.....

I wondered how long it would be till the Lomu try was used, sad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KAN84ixyRs

See Sinbad go at 1:01

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Well researched without doubt. Reads a bit like an "if only" tbh.

Not at any point does it actually say perhaps he just hasn't been good enough, which is the real reason.

You can't fall asleep in defence like JSD does and make a top Int winger.

It doesn't say that at all, yet you come to that conclusion, interesting...

i think I'm going to have to agree to disagree with you here. I will have no doubt watched far more of his games than you, so can testify his defensive lapses happen very rarely. They have happened as they do any player.

Yet he still receives no International recognition.....strange

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Yet he still receives no International recognition.....strange

Listening to Will Greenwood recently he described Sinbad as the most talented player of his generation. He's not got international recognition due to various ill-timed injuries. He so nearly went in 2003 but got glandula fever and Luger was taken instead. If only he hadn't been kissing Gloucester girls he could have 100 caps...

gregor, don't forget this one!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zemv2um-w4

3 mins 10... sublime genius and always makes me smile to see him turn Dayglo inside out

Yea I forgot.....it's his various injuries and bad luck.

I suffer the same problem, if it wasn't for my dodgy knee I'd have 150 caps by now.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Yet he still receives no International recognition.....strange

But clearly he has received a lot of international recognition. Recognition spanning nearly ten years in fact. Indeed I would wager that only Jonny Wilkinson was persevered with more after some horrendous and long-term injuries. He's a joy to watch frankly, and had he not had such a dreadful run of injuries i'm sure he would've been up there as one of the greats.

Nice rugby on display there in the first NZ clip by the way. How many teams would you see doing that against New Zealand from their own 22 these days?!

No he wouldn't have been up there as he can't defend!!!

There's some serious romantics on this site