Who Wins and Why?

by mobilemaster8 Sun 11 Nov 2012, 4:39 pm

First topic message reminder :

Okay, a Sunday afternoon topic for you to think about.

Who wins the following fights and why:

Vitali Klitschko vs Lennox Lewis 2

Wladamir Klitschko vs Joe Fraizer

David Haye vs George Foreman

Floyd Mayweather vs Sugar Ray Leonard

Carl Froch vs Joe Calzaghe

Manny Pacquiao vs Robert Duran

Thoughts???????

by The genius of PBF Mon 12 Nov 2012, 6:40 pm

rycoys wrote:
The genius of PBF wrote:
rycoys wrote:tough one ! but in a nutshell lewis wins a better boxer and stinging jab , wlad wins too strong and is alowed to hold to much, haye wins too elusive and too fast , mayweather suger ray too close to call !! calzaghe wins southpaw would cause froch problems , manyy wins too fast duran too easy too hit !

Haye beats Foreman? ...Let me guess you think Haye beats the likes of Ali, Louis, Lewis etc?
ok smart ar$e just a possible outcome , if big george cant get to haye early i see him getting frustrated leaving himself open to hayes speed in/out one two combinations , george would happily take these shots just to get the chance to land , he doesnt and its a ud to haye !! of course it could go the other way , and for the record haye gets outboxed by ali and lewis and gets stopped by louis,

Foreman beats Haye everytime because he is better than him...Are you sure your not Adam Booth?...Or ifs and buts I dont see how you could pick prime Haye to beat prime Foreman.

Foreman is a accurate puncher as well so will land.

by The genius of PBF Mon 12 Nov 2012, 6:42 pm

manos de piedra wrote:Ward isnt a big puncher but I could still see him flooring Hearns or wearing him down at SMW.

Ward is a decent puncher as the Dawson fight showed which is why I pick Ward to stop Hearns late.

by rycoys Mon 12 Nov 2012, 6:42 pm

mobilemaster8 wrote:Good opinions guys. It appears the majority of us feel the fighters of old would really trouble fighters of today.....with that said.....how do you see the next round of fights:

Andre Ward vs Tommy Hearns

Mike Tyson vs David Haye

Sergio Martinez vs Marvin Hacker

Lennox Lewis vs Muhammed Ali

JCC vs Sugar Ray Leonard

On a side note.....what would be your top 3 fantasy fights??

ward outboxes hearns after a couple of scares to ud
hagler stops martinez late on
tyson stops haye mid rounds [ like bruno fight ]
ali outpoints lewis just
leonard outpoints jcc

3 fantasy fights
lewis v wlad k
froch v benn
bruno v haye

and of course audley v ali !!!!!!

by rycoys Mon 12 Nov 2012, 6:43 pm

rycoys wrote:
mobilemaster8 wrote:Good opinions guys. It appears the majority of us feel the fighters of old would really trouble fighters of today.....with that said.....how do you see the next round of fights:

Andre Ward vs Tommy Hearns

Mike Tyson vs David Haye

Sergio Martinez vs Marvin Hacker

Lennox Lewis vs Muhammed Ali

JCC vs Sugar Ray Leonard

On a side note.....what would be your top 3 fantasy fights??

ward outboxes hearns after a couple of scares to ud
hagler stops martinez late on
tyson stops haye mid rounds [ like bruno fight ]
ali outpoints lewis just
leonard outpoints jcc

3 fantasy fights
lewis v wlad k
froch v benn
bruno v haye
these match ups would bring the best out both boxers
and of course audley v ali !!!!!!

by **88Chris05** Mon 12 Nov 2012, 6:44 pm

It appears I've been owned by Floyd again! I'll never learn!

by rycoys Mon 12 Nov 2012, 6:49 pm

The genius of PBF wrote:
rycoys wrote:
The genius of PBF wrote:
rycoys wrote:tough one ! but in a nutshell lewis wins a better boxer and stinging jab , wlad wins too strong and is alowed to hold to much, haye wins too elusive and too fast , mayweather suger ray too close to call !! calzaghe wins southpaw would cause froch problems , manyy wins too fast duran too easy too hit !

Haye beats Foreman? ...Let me guess you think Haye beats the likes of Ali, Louis, Lewis etc?
ok smart ar$e just a possible outcome , if big george cant get to haye early i see him getting frustrated leaving himself open to hayes speed in/out one two combinations , george would happily take these shots just to get the chance to land , he doesnt and its a ud to haye !! of course it could go the other way , and for the record haye gets outboxed by ali and lewis and gets stopped by louis,

Foreman beats Haye everytime because he is better than him...Are you sure your not Adam Booth?...Or ifs and buts I dont see how you could pick prime Haye to beat prime Foreman.

Foreman is a accurate puncher as well so will land.

i know most would disagree and george would proberly get to haye but was seeing it from another percpective , not saying he would beat him for sure but just how the fight could go , we dont always have to make the obvious choice!

by hogey Mon 12 Nov 2012, 8:36 pm

Vitali Klitschko vs Lennox Lewis 2, Lewis by stoppage in 9 or 10 rounds if Klitchko could not put away the Lewis that he fought first time around he would have not have much of a chance with a better prepared, motivated and fitter Lewis.

Wladamir Klitschko vs Joe Fraizer, Fraizer (at his best) by KO inside 4 rounds he would break him up and force a brutal stoppage. Too much skill, desire and power for Wlad even if he was giving up a ton of weight.

David Haye vs George Foreman, One sided blowout just a question how long it takes George to put him to sleep, George had just too much of everything, frankly Haye should not even be in the same sentence as Big George.

Floyd Mayweather vs Sugar Ray Leonard, SRR wins this big either mid to late round stoppage or one sided decision. Leonard was one of the greatest fighters that ever lived and an often forgot big puncher added to his incredible skills, lightening fast hands, granite chin, amazing footwork you have one of the most perfect fighters of all time. Mayweather while a fantastic fighter is not on the same level and would find himself out thought and outfought. Leonard had no trouble hitting Benitez who was one of the best defensive fighters of all time so i am sure Mayweather would prove no real problem. Too big, too fast, too powerful, too clever, too skillfull in fact just too damn good in general.

Carl Froch vs Joe Calzaghe, 9 times out of 10 Calazaghe wins this just got a little bit too much in all departments and wins by comfortable decision.

Manny Pacquiao vs Robert Duran, Think this is the most difficult to judge but i think Duran just takes a close decision in an absolute war. Think his skills and power, just edge Pacman's hand speed and power, but could go either way in all honesty.

by Imperial Ghosty Mon 12 Nov 2012, 8:46 pm

88Chris05 wrote:It appears I've been owned by Floyd again! I'll never learn!

He owns me all the time as well Chris so I wouldn't be too disheartened by it, we could all learn a thing or two from PBF.

by WelshDevilRob Mon 12 Nov 2012, 9:17 pm

Vitali Klitschko vs Lennox Lewis 2

Lennox wins. More adaptable, more power and skills and quicker. Just a better fighter. Probably scores a Ko in around 8 rounds. Vitali is tough but hittable against a man with confidence.

Wladamir Klitschko vs Joe Fraizer

Frazier would work his way in due to his movement. He gets the Ko over the much bigger Wlad. Wlad has the size and likes to hold in close but Frazier had the power to seriously trouble him.

David Haye vs George Foreman

Foreman knocks Haye into oblivion. I'm a huge Haye fan but he will get tagged and sparked by George. His chin can't take Foreman's power and while he has the speed to stay away, he won't be able to all night.

Floyd Mayweather vs Sugar Ray Leonard

Leonard at Welterweight is faster, more skilled and a better fighter than Floyd. Floyd is exceptional but Leonard is greater. Leonard while not a puncher was a spiteful puncher and he is not letting Floyd off the hook. Floyd doesn't have power, so not going to bother SRL. It would be pretty one-sided once Leonard went to work.

Carl Froch vs Joe Calzaghe

A distance fight and maybe a late stoppage in Joe's favour. Froch is incredibly slow but leaves his hands low, thinking he has amazing reflexes - he doesn't. Joe plasters him with tons of shots, round after round.

Manny Pacquiao vs Robert Duran

At Lightweight it has to be Duran - that was his prime. At Welterweight then harder to call. Manny's speed can win this but its 50/50.

by Super D Boon Mon 12 Nov 2012, 10:42 pm

Having watched the fight again last night I really don't get this theory from Lewis nuthuggers that he wasn't in top condition to face Vitali. He looked pretty mean to me and nothing like the jaded and poorly conditioned Lewis of say the first Rahman fight where he got sparked. Even so, in terms of bad preparation the same could be argued of Vitali who took the fight at short notice as a late sub.

All in all that fight had a lot of unanswerables attached to it so it cheeses me off somewhat to see both sets of nuthuggers coming out with outlandish stantements. I would usually root for Lewis 7 times out of ten but his winning is by no means a formality.

The others are easy:

Wlad beats Frazier every day of the week. Far too much reach advantage, too savy in defence and Frazier would be eating jabs all night. Comfortable UD win for Wlad with the odd shaky moment. People forget how limited Frazier was and made his name largely off Ali.

Foreman wastes Haye whatever version of George fights. Despite being a stationery object, Foreman throws huge shots coming from all angles he would catch Haye coming in with his wild raids. Too much power and variety for Haye, Haye goes to sleep early to mid rounds.

Leonard easy win. Just as fast and skilful but naturally bigger and stronger.

Calzaghe beats Froch by lopsided UD or pre hand trouble stops Froch late on. Froch nowehere near skilful enough, quick enough and despite his reputation isn't the banger his fans like to make out. Easy win for JC.

Duran, naturally far too big for Manny and would eat him alive. No contest.

by milkyboy Tue 13 Nov 2012, 8:10 am

Amazing considering the fighters we're talking about how many 'easy' and landslides we're getting.
Lewis kiltschko prime v prime would be Lewis, but a rematch would be a pickem, with a slight leaning to Lewis. Lewis close decision.

Frazer re wlad is an interesting one, joe would keep coming and has that equalising left hook, wlad hasn't fought anyone with that level of intensity. However, I can also see joe frustrated by the jab reach size and hugging of wlad. Tough call, I'm erring to wlad on points.

George v haye, I can see pbf's angle on this, in that if you could keep out if trouble against George for 5 rounds your chances improved dramatically. However, foreman had a habit of making good fighters look bad, so it's hard to see past a foreman early stoppage, which would be a pleasure to watch.

As the old guard on here will remember I'm a big Leonard fan, but this is a tough night for ray. Srl had as good a offensive arsenal as you could wish for, but he was always hittable himself. I think he would struggle to get to mayweather because everyone does and find himself getting picked off. Both these guys are fighters who can adapt during a fight if necessary and I suspect that Leonard would at some point be trying (assuming he hadn't watched the Oscar Pbf fight) to double up the jab to get in range. Two keys to this fight for me, are you need to throw combinations to get to floyd, and Leonard certainly could do that, he's also the bigger man. leonard to win a closeish decision, or possible late stoppage but not easy.

Despite how well froch has done in his career and his admirable attitude to matchmaking, this is one of the easier fights to call here. I can't see past a hard earned but fairly comfortable decision for jc. Too fast too busy.

Manny v Duran. What a cracker this would be, Duran would be just a little too streetwise in my view and tough out a close decision.

by compelling and rich Tue 13 Nov 2012, 10:21 am

bloody hell mobile, whats haye ever done to you, to even put him in a ring with foreman and tyson. he was running scared of wlad a fighter who's quite negative at times. imagine what he would be doing against these two!!

agree with others that prime for prime lewis beats vitali in a wide UD or a stoppage on cuts again, the older past it version could beat him vitali on short notice then dont see how he struggles being at his best. the rematch is close, but its something i think lewis would get motivated for, a motivated on game lewis even if he was getting on was a huge handful for anybody

srl beats mayweather for me on points, dont agree with few others that it would be a chess match. mayweather can be agressive at times and think he would need to, dont see how he wins by just trying to counter a guy who's bigger and quicker. think it would be a truely great fight to watch

calzaghe wins on points, calzaghes a fighter who annoyed me quite abit but theres no denying his talent, be a good fight. but calzaghe by 4 rounds

duran v manny is the most entertaining fight (unless you really hate haye if true then either foreman or tyson is bags of fun). think this would be action packed with duran taking it on points in what would be a war to match some of the all time great fights

by John Bloody Wayne Tue 13 Nov 2012, 9:05 pm

Vitali Klitschko vs Lennox Lewis 2
I'm really surprised to see so many people picking this to go the distance. The most likely outcomes in my eyes would be
1. Lewis win by KO/TKO
2. Vitali win by KO/TKO
3. Lewis Decision
4. Vitali Decision

I can see a prime Lewis being more likely to be there for the full stretch, but given the nature of their first fight, it looked like one of them was going down. Lewis no longer had the legs to move out of the way as easily, and I've never rated Vitali's defense against a big man. Presuming Lewis comes in around 250 and no more, with his eye on the full distance and not training for whatshisface I'd back him to do the job. Given that Lewis could be suscebtible early on, Vitali might get to him then - he has that punchers chance, but maybe that's exactly what he got in the first two rounds of their fight but failed to finish it. When two guys this size swap leather I don't see them both lasting, and looking at how much leather he was eating by round 6, and how knackered he was, I think Vitali goes down.

Wladamir Klitschko vs Joe Fraizer
This is presuming we've got a neutral ref! I honestly think Frazier on the night he beat Ali is one of the most formidable monsters in heavyweight history. His pure, dogged determination and seemingly never ending stamina were unreal. Fighting with such a constantly moving style for three minutes a round is incredibly energy consuming but he could do it all night. He also had a good chin and was not as easy a target as he looked. Wlad has the size and lots of the physical tools. He's not aggressive though. If you don't get rid of Frazier early, especially at his best, you're for a long and horrible night. The man just got stronger as it went on. I've never seens Wlad show any ability to fight close quarters and that's to his credit, he doesn't let his opponents get that close. Frazier I think would find his way in, and his left was loaded enough to break part of George Chuvalo's skull. Wlad likes to control the pace and keep it fairly low. Frazier could force him into a torrid pace and the big man could be breathing very heavy late on if it goes that far. Frazier KO within ten. He was just pure ferocious at his best. Given Wlad's inability to put (albeit a negative) Haye down I'm not as convinced by most of his power.

David Haye vs George Foreman
I'm not a Haye hater, but Foreman with either hand. I can't even see Haye outlasting him given he's no endurance fighter either.

Floyd Mayweather vs Sugar Ray Leonard
Possibly the same as the Benitez fight, where Leonard won close to all the rounds, but in a nervy way with little landing clean. Leonard's superior size, speed and combined with better imaginative boxing make me think he has what it takes to nullify Mayweather. Floyd doesn't like a high pace either whereas Leonard was always strong in the late rounds. Leonard by wide ish UD without actually dominating many rounds.

Carl Froch vs Joe Calzaghe
Given Calzaghe's chin and conditioning he's not likely to get knocked out even he does go to war. Given his speed and workrate advantages I see him taking a UD. Some bloody rounds which go to Froch as I think he's just bad for southpaws as he's very easy to hit with a right hand, but seemingly harder to tag with a left. I'd be cheering for Froch though.

Manny Pacquiao vs Robert Duran
Awesome fight. Duran's defense and one shot power convinces me more. Roberto pulls it out but it would be an epic.

by AlexHuckerby Tue 13 Nov 2012, 10:12 pm

I know people hate him, and he hasn't proven himself at HW, but I just get a feeling that Haye would suprise us. I really have always felt Foreman, despite being a murderous puncher, was very much overrated.

He was pretty slow and his punches incredibly wild and inaccurate, he benefitted an awful lot with fighters comign towards him and being inferior. His best win in his prime was Frazier. Albeit an absolutely terrific win, Frazier was literally made for him. I do get a feeling Haye could have danced around him without taking serious punishment most of the night.

Whether he would win with these tactics, I'm not too sure.

by AlexHuckerby Tue 13 Nov 2012, 10:17 pm

I fully expect to be slaughtered for the above.

by azania Tue 13 Nov 2012, 10:37 pm

He may not have been the fastest, but he had awesome timing to go with his ridiculous punch power. A 1970s foreman would spark out Haye in less that 3 minutes depending how fast Haye ran.

by AlexHuckerby Tue 13 Nov 2012, 10:47 pm

Always thought he looked incredibly wild and just relied on his trucklike power, against a dancer like Haye I can see him walking into a few big ones aswell in truth, but would probably win a decision, but I think Haye could make it difficult for him.

by coxy0001 Tue 13 Nov 2012, 11:11 pm

AlexHuckerby wrote:Always thought he looked incredibly wild and just relied on his trucklike power, against a dancer like Haye I can see him walking into a few big ones aswell in truth, but would probably win a decision, but I think Haye could make it difficult for him.

Lyle couldn't get him out of there.

Haye doesn't crack all that, he doesn't sit on his punches as he did at CW.

Haye needs time to set himself, he'd be too busy running to set himself properly for a big one. Foreman would smash him, completely end of. You don't get how a punch is thrown which is why you've come to your summary, but Haye at some point would have to be infront of him to land big - once he was Foreman would simply time him on the way in, such is the massive level in difference of calibre of fighter.

by **ShahenshahG** Tue 13 Nov 2012, 11:17 pm

Also alex - Haye cant throw many punches a round because of his tank - what do you think a ferocious *body* puncher would do to hayes stamina.

by TheMackemMawler Tue 13 Nov 2012, 11:29 pm

Big George...yee hah!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzy6tErgQZI

by manos de piedra Tue 13 Nov 2012, 11:48 pm

Im not even sure I would pick Haye to beat Old George Foreman with a huge degree of conviction.

by **ShahenshahG** Tue 13 Nov 2012, 11:58 pm

Haye vs old foreman is like Bert cooper vs old Foreman although i think he'd at least go out on his shield (maybe!!)

by Rowley Wed 14 Nov 2012, 7:30 am

The only thing I would disagree with is Haye may last a few rounds, not through any particular ability on his but just on how bleeding negative he would be. He was cautious to the point of tedium against Valuev and Wlad, neither of which are known for George's aggression or levels of intimidation, if either of these can send Haye scurrying into his shell I would fully expect him to seek to enter the ring against Foreman in a full suit of armour.

by rycoys Wed 14 Nov 2012, 7:39 am

AlexHuckerby wrote:Always thought he looked incredibly wild and just relied on his trucklike power, against a dancer like Haye I can see him walking into a few big ones aswell in truth, but would probably win a decision, but I think Haye could make it difficult for him.

ruddy hell someone who agrees with me !! was begingning to feel me back was against the ropes on this thread !!!

by milkyboy Wed 14 Nov 2012, 9:12 am

Clutching at straws when you're support is coming from Alex, rycoys, all you need is Gordy and waingro backing you up now to sink your argument completely.

Only teasing Alex.

Anyway, on the theme of potshotting at rycoys, I'm interested in the ward out boxing hearns argument. Granted if we're talking an ageing hearns at super middle, above his best weight, it's entirely possible but if we're looking at primes, tommy got knocked out and out toughed when he went to war, but never outboxed that I can recall.

by AlexHuckerby Wed 14 Nov 2012, 10:23 am

Haha, I'm not saying he will win, but I find it a bit daft this whole "Haye would be blasted out in two seconds" nonsense.

by compelling and rich Wed 14 Nov 2012, 10:56 am

Nonsense?! Hardly think its nonsense to suggest one of the biggest hitters of all time who could knock out atg heavyweights, would knock out a guy with no heavyweight cv and is a natural crusier, there is simply no evidence whatsoever to suggest haye can win this fight. He has only fought one good heavyweight and lost. Let me guess his win against the great mormeck where he was on the deck suggests he beats foreman!!

by compelling and rich Wed 14 Nov 2012, 10:57 am

ANd do not even attempt to put valuev and foreman in the same sentence

by Rowley Wed 14 Nov 2012, 11:01 am

I think I am half with Alex on this one, Haye loses, every day of the week and twice on Sunday and loses badly every time. However as I said previously you have to think his tactics are so earth shatteringly negative that he sees a couple of rounds minimum.

by compelling and rich Wed 14 Nov 2012, 11:17 am

rowley wrote:I think I am half with Alex on this one, Haye loses, every day of the week and twice on Sunday and loses badly every time. However as I said previously you have to think his tactics are so earth shatteringly negative that he sees a couple of rounds minimum.

think biggest difference is, haye could get away with it against wlad as he's negative himself. not once in that fight did wlad try to walk haye down. wlad knew the fight would be won on the outside so stuck it there. all this haye great footwork is abit much, that fight his tactics evolved around lunging in and missing a hell of alot, his foot work only looked good against the lumbering giant valuev

foreman comes forward and cuts down the ring and with hayes ego he cant help but try to fire back, its something he has done against every fighter bar valuev and wlad where he was giving massive reach and height away. against foreman he's not

by Rowley Wed 14 Nov 2012, 11:20 am

Like I say CnR George wins every time but I genuinely think if a guy of half way reasonable ability goes into the ring with little but survival on his mind he can normally muddle through a couple of rings and Haye is not without ability. Am also not too sure about Haye's ego kicking in, after around 8 with Wlad when it was clear the fight was lost and public ridicule and scorn was inevitable it did not lead to any blaze of glory death before dishonour change of tactics.

by compelling and rich Wed 14 Nov 2012, 11:29 am

rowley wrote:Like I say CnR George wins every time but I genuinely think if a guy of half way reasonable ability goes into the ring with little but survival on his mind he can normally muddle through a couple of rings and Haye is not without ability. Am also not too sure about Haye's ego kicking in, after around 8 with Wlad when it was clear the fight was lost and public ridicule and scorn was inevitable it did not lead to any blaze of glory death before dishonour change of tactics.

the wlad fight was abit of a one off for haye in terms of his overall career. all the other fights in his career he could often get sucked into a bit of a battle which often suited him, thompson, enzo (while it lasted) mormeck, ruiz, chisora. he has only ran against two oppenents both of whom didnt chase. not the best prep for one of the top ten (my top 5) atg heavies. think foreman chases him from the get go and catches up with him by round 3

by compelling and rich Wed 14 Nov 2012, 11:34 am

would also add that foreman was at his best when the oppenents were scared of him, something which i think most agree haye would be considering he ran against valuev!! he would be backing up right into those wild swinging hooks. when a fighter goes in negative against a big puncher it normally ends one way, look at tysons and foremans early careers. the only time they had problems when people stood up to them and wasnt scared

by Gordy Wed 14 Nov 2012, 1:57 pm

compelling and rich wrote:would also add that foreman was at his best when the oppenents were scared of him, something which i think most agree haye would be considering he ran against valuev!! he would be backing up right into those wild swinging hooks. when a fighter goes in negative against a big puncher it normally ends one way, look at tysons and foremans early careers. the only time they had problems when people stood up to them and wasnt scared

Spot on! Haye would be petrified of Foreman! The biggest shock would be if he actually agreed to face him! He fought like he was scared against heavyweights far worse than Foreman so how on earth can anyone give him a chance of beating someone like Foreman. It would be a massacre.

by J.Benson II Wed 14 Nov 2012, 2:01 pm

I think Haye is slippery enough to last a few rounds but once Foreman corners him, it will be over.
Haye beats the older Foreman using similar tactics he did against Valuev, bit like what Morrison did (who I think is inferior to Haye).

by Gordy Wed 14 Nov 2012, 2:19 pm

Against a young George Foreman Haye would not alst a round. Foreman would just charge over at him and turn his lights out! Only fighters like Lewis or Ali that had the skills and mentality to cope with a fighter like Foreman could survive and win. Against the older Foreman who was slower Haye might last a couple of rounds running away like he did against Klitschko and the other massive guy but Foreman was better than those guys and alot more powerful so as soon as he cornered Haye it would be all over. Haye was extremelly fortunate to beat the giant Russian guy who was the slowest and most unskilled heavyweight I think I have ever seen so Foreman would be able to knock Haye out.

by NathanDB10 Wed 14 Nov 2012, 2:22 pm

Gordy wrote:Against a young George Foreman Haye would not alst a round. Foreman would just charge over at him and turn his lights out! Only fighters like Lewis or Ali that had the skills and mentality to cope with a fighter like Foreman could survive and win. Against the older Foreman who was slower Haye might last a couple of rounds running away like he did against Klitschko and the other massive guy but Foreman was better than those guys and alot more powerful so as soon as he cornered Haye it would be all over. Haye was extremelly fortunate to beat the giant Russian guy who was the slowest and most unskilled heavyweight I think I have ever seen so Foreman would be able to knock Haye out.

Good point there Gordy, but can I just ask what is with the infatuation with Lewis? He was a decent HW but comparing him with Ali is a bit much. Louis, Ali, Liston, Foreman, Holyfield and Tyson would all beat him in prime for prime IMO.

by The genius of PBF Thu 15 Nov 2012, 5:56 pm

Mobile got what he wanted which was for posters to bash Haye in the thread why else would he out of all heavyweights to choose from decide Haye against the likes of Tyson and Foreman.

Ghosty not hard to own the likes of you and Chris though isit?

by rapidringsroad Fri 16 Nov 2012, 2:44 am

Sorry Nathan, I can't agree with you when you say that Holyfield, Tyson,Liston, and Louis would beat Lewis. Only Ali would be a match and Foreman wouldn't have an easy night. I find it hard to pick a winner from those two.

by Gordy Sat 17 Nov 2012, 2:10 pm

rapidringsroad wrote: Sorry Nathan, I can't agree with you when you say that Holyfield, Tyson,Liston, and Louis would beat Lewis. Only Ali would be a match and Foreman wouldn't have an easy night. I find it hard to pick a winner from those two.

Dont worry there are alot of people on here who dont give Lewis the credit he deserves! Only someone who doesnt follow boxing would say Tyson and Holyfield would beat Lewis. He beat both of them in his career! One of the Holyfield fights was scored a draw but its the worst decision I have ever seen and Lewis beat him in the rematch anyway. Only Ali would beat Lewis. Foreman was tough and very strong but look at how Ali was able to beat him and look at how Lewis dominated Tyon who was like a later version of Foreman so you can tell Lewis would be able to stand up to Foreman and knock him out like he did to Tyson.

by NathanDB10 Sat 17 Nov 2012, 3:20 pm

Gordy wrote:
rapidringsroad wrote: Sorry Nathan, I can't agree with you when you say that Holyfield, Tyson,Liston, and Louis would beat Lewis. Only Ali would be a match and Foreman wouldn't have an easy night. I find it hard to pick a winner from those two.

Dont worry there are alot of people on here who dont give Lewis the credit he deserves! Only someone who doesnt follow boxing would say Tyson and Holyfield would beat Lewis. He beat both of them in his career! One of the Holyfield fights was scored a draw but its the worst decision I have ever seen and Lewis beat him in the rematch anyway. Only Ali would beat Lewis. Foreman was tough and very strong but look at how Ali was able to beat him and look at how Lewis dominated Tyon who was like a later version of Foreman so you can tell Lewis would be able to stand up to Foreman and knock him out like he did to Tyson.

The thing with those points is that Holyfield was semi-shot and Tyson was a shell. If you look at the second Holyfield fight, when he jabs to Lewis' chest, Lewis doesn't know what to do, his whole gameplan and ability is gone. The only reason Holyfield lost the two fights was that because he was too old to follow up those jabs when he got inside. A 1996 version of Holyfield would have beaten Lewis in that fight.

by Imperial Ghosty Sat 17 Nov 2012, 3:23 pm

Think Holyfield loses to Lewis at any point personally, he was dreadfully inconsistent at heavyweight and don't think he had the size or ability to follow up on his jab, he looked good in a war but in a boxing match he never looked fully capable of overcoming a bigger foe.

by NathanDB10 Sat 17 Nov 2012, 3:33 pm

Wasn't it exactly because he boxed Bowe in their second fight that he won? When he went to war with Bowe, he lost both times.

I'll grant you Holyfield was inconsistant, that is why he isn't in my top 10 ATG, but in the second Lewis fight specifically, I think he showed enough, and perhaps more importantly showed Lewis' limitations to suggest a fresher version of Holyfield could get the win.

by Imperial Ghosty Sat 17 Nov 2012, 3:40 pm

It's harsh on Holyfield but Bowe didn't turn up that night and wasn't able to impose his will like he did the other two times. He performed better in the second fight but was still decisively beaten while the first fight was almost pure domination from Lewis.

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