Wales want to host England RWC game

by Manu's Boxing Coach Mon 03 Dec 2012, 7:12 pm

First topic message reminder :

This game is 3 years away and yet it has already gained some controversy. WRU chief exec Roger Lewis has already put out the idea of Wales hosting the match between Wales and the competition's holders. Enhancing his attempt to stir up trouble he has reminded the tournament organisers of their obligations to use the Millenium stadium as a venue during the competition saying "It is very important to remember that Wales was included in the England's bid for matches in the Millennium Stadium."

Link is below, cant believe stuff like this has already started but I love it. Its irrelevant really as there is no chance this game will be at MS but stuff like this makes the Anglo-Welsh rivalry what it is. We can be looking forward to this for a long while and each game between us now will have even bigger impetus. Enjoy. Laugh

http://www1.skysports.com/news/12040/8307194/#

by SecretFly Tue 04 Dec 2012, 8:44 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Fair enough Griff, its a very complicated situation to us Antipodeans.

Anyway I was beginning to wonder how you got away with playing International Rugby for so long if you werent a country.

I didn't want to enter this one but just to say it's a might more complicated in my eyes that a few Nations about 10,000 miles away from Wales have the same Head of State.............

by Guest Tue 04 Dec 2012, 8:50 pm

That's the way it is with any 'United Kingdom' - a country made up of constituent countries. They had them in other parts of the world too such as Scandinavia, but reverted back to their constituent countries over time. Doesn't make the constituent countries not countries though.

Not sure about England, but wouldn't it be classed the same as Wales, Scotland and NI? I.e. not recognised by the UN as the country is the UK and so is the passport, not England. Not sure about this though.

by aucklandlaurie Tue 04 Dec 2012, 8:51 pm

SecretFly wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
Fair enough Griff, its a very complicated situation to us Antipodeans.

Anyway I was beginning to wonder how you got away with playing International Rugby for so long if you werent a country.
I didn't want to enter this one but just to say it's a might more complicated in my eyes that a few Nations about 10,000 miles away from Wales have the same Head of State.............

Good god, does this mean we should be singing "God save the queen" as well as do the Haka.?

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue 04 Dec 2012, 8:57 pm

If you sing that in the Millennium theyll get culturally offended and make you do it in the dressing room

by gregortree Tue 04 Dec 2012, 9:12 pm

Don't worry Griff, there is always the Prince of Wales to add some dignity to the proceedings. I don't think they'll send Redwood along again.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Tue 04 Dec 2012, 9:37 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
Fair enough Griff, its a very complicated situation to us Antipodeans.

Anyway I was beginning to wonder how you got away with playing International Rugby for so long if you werent a country.
I didn't want to enter this one but just to say it's a might more complicated in my eyes that a few Nations about 10,000 miles away from Wales have the same Head of State.............

Good god, does this mean we should be singing "God save the queen" as well as do the Haka.?

Technically Laurie yes. NZ is one of the 2 countries in the world with 2 official national anthems. GSTQ and GDNZ.
Doh

by Adam D Tue 04 Dec 2012, 9:39 pm

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
Fair enough Griff, its a very complicated situation to us Antipodeans.

Anyway I was beginning to wonder how you got away with playing International Rugby for so long if you werent a country.
I didn't want to enter this one but just to say it's a might more complicated in my eyes that a few Nations about 10,000 miles away from Wales have the same Head of State.............

Good god, does this mean we should be singing "God save the queen" as well as do the Haka.?

Technically Laurie yes. NZ is one of the 2 countries in the world with 2 official national anthems. GSTQ and GDNZ.

G'Day New Zealand?

by HammerofThunor Tue 04 Dec 2012, 9:45 pm

I thought Wales had it's status changed from Principality to country in 1999 with the devolution. No idea where I picked that up from.

One thing Griff, I would just look at the first thing that turns up on the internet and take it as fact. Probably not a good way of assessing information. Very Happy

by mystiroakey Tue 04 Dec 2012, 9:49 pm

no Hammer I dont think they have. they are not recognised by the UN

by HammerofThunor Tue 04 Dec 2012, 9:53 pm

So? Don't the UN recognize 'Nations' not 'Countries'? Wales may well have been a Principality at one point. But England, Scotland and NI aren't recognized by the UN. And they're not Principalities so what are they supposed to be?

Seems to be a semantic argument more than anything and who cares about those? (sorry if people are offended by anti-semantics, like Mel Gibson)

by Guest Tue 04 Dec 2012, 9:55 pm

HammerofThunor wrote:I thought Wales had it's status changed from Principality to country in 1999 with the devolution. No idea where I picked that up from.

One thing Griff, I would just look at the first thing that turns up on the internet and take it as fact. Probably not a good way of assessing information.

I was directing him to a particular page, saying that it was the first hit in this case. I wasn't saying that for doing research in general you should believe the first hit. While Wikipedia isn't the most reliable of sources, it is accurate in this instance.

And, the year you're thinking of is 1536, not 1999 thumbsup

by mystiroakey Tue 04 Dec 2012, 9:57 pm

yeah it is a silly argument

but who/what recognises countries bar the UN(even if they call it nations which is exactly the same thing). Noone/nothing from what i can tell.

by HammerofThunor Tue 04 Dec 2012, 9:59 pm

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2012/01/20/wales-finally-meets-the-standard-to-be-known-as-a-country-91466-30160843/

For mystiroakey

EDIT: just in case you're feeling pedantic, the reason ISO hadn't previous identified Wales as a country was a recognized technical error rather than a change in status.

ISO are the international organised that set standards. For everything. Including what is classed as a country.

by HammerofThunor Tue 04 Dec 2012, 10:02 pm

mystiroakey wrote:yeah it is a silly argument

but who/what recognises countries bar the UN(even if they call it nations which is exactly the same thing). Noone/nothing from what i can tell.

by mystiroakey Tue 04 Dec 2012, 10:02 pm

so wales have meet the ISO to be able to call themselves a country.. ok

that doesnt mean anything though does it- I personally look at wales as separte country- but the UK is the only thing that maters when it comes to forign matters!

well bar sport of course Smile

by Guest Tue 04 Dec 2012, 10:03 pm

From what I can tell all 4 are countries. But, by being part of a United Kingdom the UK becomes the recognised country by the UN, hence the UK and not English passports.

I guess you couldn't have the UK as a recognised country in the UNs eyes and one of the constituent countries being too. That may be too confusing for the they!

by Guest Tue 04 Dec 2012, 10:07 pm

mystiroakey wrote:so wales have meet the ISO to be able to call themselves a country.. ok

that doesnt mean anything though does it- I personally look at wales as separte country- but the UK is the only thing that maters when it comes to forign matters!

well bar sport of course

I think what it is saying is that Wales has been a country officially for centuries but, annoyingly, the poxy ISO standards agency was referring to us as something else through outdated records.

by Guest Tue 04 Dec 2012, 10:09 pm

Honestly people WTF????!!!!
Talking about the UN! IT'S RUGBY PEOPLE,get over your friging self's.

by mystiroakey Tue 04 Dec 2012, 10:10 pm

4 countries-- now it gets very complicated- what is NI!??

(i shouldnt have started that one-- sorry!!!)

The difference between nation and country isnt much- but its the way it would be used in a sentance.

A nation - is a nation of people that occupies a country..

a country is the physical area!

is NI a nation...well no not really. Its a nation or irish or UK citizens, or you can be both if you want..

is it a country- well no its not recognized as one by any standard- un or iso, is it a principality- no!

Is ireland a country? - i dunno!!!!!

or is the repulic of ireland a country?- i dunno!!

I am well confused - lol

sorry i dont wanna get politcal- just talking sematics

by aucklandlaurie Tue 04 Dec 2012, 10:18 pm

Does wales have an Army?

by mystiroakey Tue 04 Dec 2012, 10:19 pm

no they dont- the army is the british army(probally a better name for it would be british and northern irish or UK army- as with most things)

by aucklandlaurie Tue 04 Dec 2012, 10:21 pm

So wales woulnt be much use to the UN when they are looking for volunteers for Peacekeeping duties.

by mystiroakey Tue 04 Dec 2012, 10:23 pm

well they are but they are part of the UN through the UK- we are a single entity when it comes to forign matters- our embassys, our diplomates, our Secret service, our soliders,our prime minister,our passports etc, etc are the same!

by HammerofThunor Tue 04 Dec 2012, 10:23 pm

I'm not sure of all the official definitions but regarding the UK.

I see Ireland as country and nation (as in Eire). Ireland the island is just a land mass. Britain in a land mass. Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and England are countries however they have given their nation rights to the collective UK (all but England have had some of these rights returned).

The UK is kind of like the PRL and the countries the clubs. I suppose NI is like London Welsh, officially under the RFU but dual registered with the WRU.

by aucklandlaurie Tue 04 Dec 2012, 10:27 pm

So really anyone could play for any team if you just want to get an International Jersey?. so long as youre selected that is.

by mystiroakey Tue 04 Dec 2012, 10:27 pm

and the british isles includes ireland..

great britain is our land mass..

but yeah i reakon thats a good way of summing it up i suppose Hammer.

however NI is not a recognised country- is it?

but i believe it is one!

by mystiroakey Tue 04 Dec 2012, 10:28 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote:
So really anyone could play for any team if you just want to get an International Jersey?. so long as youre selected that is.

not really but that is only due to our own laws in reagards to what countries we can represent.

but in cricket- anyone from scotland and ireland (yes even ireland) can play for the england(and wales) cricket team

by thebluesmancometh Tue 04 Dec 2012, 10:29 pm

WTF has happened to this thread??

At least the yahoo news forum is just full of sheep this and sheep that...

by mystiroakey Tue 04 Dec 2012, 10:31 pm

yeah well I will leave the sheep talk to the bickering thread!

by thebluesmancometh Tue 04 Dec 2012, 10:31 pm

Myster

Why is (and wales) in brackets, it is the England and Wales cricket board isn't it?

by mystiroakey Tue 04 Dec 2012, 10:33 pm

yeah correct your right!

I put it in brackets because we hardly ever call it its full name- maybe i used have used quotation marks instead- sensitive soul you!

by HammerofThunor Tue 04 Dec 2012, 10:35 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote:
So really anyone could play for any team if you just want to get an International Jersey?. so long as youre selected that is.

The IRB recognize them as seperate countries and therefore country of birth/residency, etc is based on the separate countries. So I am only qualified to play for England. I lived in Swansea for 2.5 years so nearly qualified for Wales by residency.

If you are from the Channel Islands then you can chose any of the countries to play for (e.g. Banahan chose to play for England, he could have played for any of the 4, I think Ireland is included). This is even though the channel island s come in the RFU region. There was a Scottish player who had a single grandparent born in the channel islands. So she allowed him to qualify for any of the countries.

mystiroakey, British Isles isn't an official term. It's supposed to come from the Romans but had no official status. It's a handy catch-all-term but some people don't like it (or see it as referring to Britain and the smaller (non Irish) islands around it).

by thebluesmancometh Tue 04 Dec 2012, 10:35 pm

Ah I'm just on the wind up mun. I never see anyones problem with the English cricket team, especially when there is generally no Welsh men in there, and in fairness there shouldn't be we are so bad!!!

I'm hoping the lions doesn't go the same way Laugh

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue 04 Dec 2012, 10:37 pm

HammerofThunor wrote:
EDIT: just in case you're feeling pedantic, the reason ISO hadn't previous identified Wales as a country was a recognized technical error rather than a change in status.

True, Wales has been recognised as a technical error since 1536 Whistle

by aucklandlaurie Tue 04 Dec 2012, 10:40 pm

thebluesmancometh wrote:Ah I'm just on the wind up mun. I never see anyones problem with the English cricket team, especially when there is generally no Welsh men in there, and in fairness there shouldn't be we are so bad!!!

I'm hoping the lions doesn't go the same way

Theres probably no room for any Welshmen, its full of South Africans.

by mystiroakey Tue 04 Dec 2012, 10:41 pm

that old chestnut.....

by majesticimperialman Wed 05 Dec 2012, 5:31 am

I thought the rules was that England are "HOST" Nation. So therefore they get too play their games at home.
Including the England v Wales game aswell.

Let not for get England are the ones that are "HOST" of the 2015 not Wales. thumbsup

by doctor_grey Wed 05 Dec 2012, 10:36 am

aucklandlaurie wrote: Good god, does this mean we should be singing "God save the queen" as well as do the Haka.?

Laurie,
The entire world should sing God Save The Queen.
Then each country may have their own anthem.
In your case, "Do The Haka" to the tune of "Do The Hustle". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-FhczpCZ84

Sorry I can't dub words on a video.

by maestegmafia Wed 05 Dec 2012, 11:45 am

sausage1966 wrote:The Welsh Rugby Union wants to stage its 2015 World Cup pool match against host nation England at the Millennium Stadium in Cardiff.

"I think they [England] would embrace the opportunity to play in the finest rugby stadium in the world," said WRU group chief executive Roger Lewis.

I don't. Billed as "2015 - Destination England" it would odd if England were to play their group matches in the Principality when they are spending £78m on Twickenham. The Millennium Stadium is one of the best Rugby Stadiums in the world - in the way Nuremberg is one of the best places for a rally - but only if you are one of the locals.

I assume Roger was just kidding. I don't mind too much - we did better there in recent 6 nations matches that we did at home.

I thought you said you would edit the mistake you made in your post?

by Cyril Wed 05 Dec 2012, 11:47 am

I really hope Chris Rattue doesn't get hold of this story otherwise there could be a 'Village Idiots' article on the way again.

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 05 Dec 2012, 11:53 am

I hope he didn't watch a recent episode of Pointless, when a Welsh woman thought that the French translation of 'household of three' was 'chateau trois'.

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