Hibbard Best in Europe?

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 17 Jan 2013, 10:48 am

First topic message reminder :

Another piece of BBC hyperbole. Although they are quoting the Osprey's coach. Although I am concerned at what they put in the water down in Swansea to draw such a crazy comment.

I would say he isn't even the best hooker in Wales let alone in Europe...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21047775

Wales hooker Richard Hibbard has been dubbed the "best hooker in Europe" and tipped to make the British and Irish Lions tour to Australia.

Ospreys coach Jonathan Humphreys insisted Hibbard more than matches any hooker in the rest of the Six Nations.

"I think he is the best hooker in Europe," said Humphreys, a former Wales hooker himself who won 35 caps.

Hibbard hopes to be fit for Wales' Six Nations opener against Ireland on 2 February despite a shoulder injury.

Asked if he would pick Hibbard, who has been selected alongside Scarlets hookers Matthew Rees and Ken Owens in Wales' 35-man Six Nations squad, on the Lions tour, Humphreys said: "If it was up to me to pick it - yes."

As a former Cardiff hooker and ex-Wales captain, Humphreys is well placed to make his judgment of 29-year-old Hibbard.

He has been impressed by Hibbard's commitment to the Ospreys' cause in recent weeks despite carrying a shoulder problem he originally picked up winning his 19th Wales cap against Samoa last November.

"You have got to bear in mind he came back in less than half the time [the medical staff] said.

"We have people out for 10 weeks and he came back in three."

It was only 12 months ago that Scott Johnson, the then Ospreys director rugby, questioned Hibbard's fitness after he was left out of Wales' squad for the 2012 Six Nations.

But Hibbard has come a long way since then and made Wales' three-Test summer tour of Australia in 2012.

"I'm biased but I spend my life looking at opposition, looking at other hookers' strength and weaknesses," said Humphreys.

"The kid is 112kg, phenomenally aggressive, outstanding at set piece. What more do you want? The kid can change games. He is very important to us [the Ospreys]."

Hibbard played in the 15-15 Heineken Cup draw with Leicester Tigers on Saturday before coming off 21 minutes from time with the shoulder problem.

"I thought he was phenomenal on the weekend," added Humphreys.

"Here is a kid who has got a bad shoulder. We had to manage it all week and the first couple of minutes in the game he is smashing into people.

"He's a loyal kid. He wants to play. He wants to do his best.

"With one shoulder he was phenomenal on the weekend and I hope he starts for Wales."

by RubyGuby Thu 17 Jan 2013, 4:22 pm

Why the feck did that lad go to Sale - Dwayne Peel did the same and disappeared of the radar and Gray is such a class act; could be at a top french team no problem - Sale Headscratch

by munkian Thu 17 Jan 2013, 4:24 pm

Fairy nuff

by Cyril Thu 17 Jan 2013, 4:24 pm

RubyGuby wrote:Why the feck did that lad go to Sale - Dwayne Peel did the same and disappeared of the radar and Gray is such a class act; could be at a top french team no problem - Sale

Thing is, there was a lot of big talk about exciting times ahead at Sale pre-season and they were tipped by many to do well. It hasn't quite worked out like that though Shocked

by fa0019 Thu 17 Jan 2013, 4:25 pm

At the moment its unproven.

To be the best you have to beat the best... and with the 6N & the Lions tour coming up its the perfect opportunity to verify any claims.

His only downfall.... with locks an area of difficulty and Wales struggling in the scrum this autumn (partly due to injuries to Adam Jones) any hooker will be up against it to show their worth. Its a team game afterall.

I do rate Rees highly though... he has a mean streak in him which I think all front rowers need to have to reach the top.

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 17 Jan 2013, 4:26 pm

RubyGuby wrote:Why the feck did that lad go to Sale - Dwayne Peel did the same and disappeared of the radar and Gray is such a class act; could be at a top french team no problem - Sale

Kind of hoping that Leinster (in their quest for a lock) pick him up once Sale have been relegated. I reckon he took the move to Sale for personal reasons. There is a large Scottish contingent down there and it is only a 3 hour train ride from his home.

He hasn't become a worse player by any means and from what I saw when he played for Scotland in the AI's the Aviva has toughened him up a bit and he gets more involved with the dirty lock work.

He certainly hasn't regressed down there, despite Sale being gash.

by RubyGuby Thu 17 Jan 2013, 4:27 pm

Not quite Cyril, not quite - That's big talk for you - Cipriani is their back bone Whistle

by RubyGuby Thu 17 Jan 2013, 4:28 pm

Rugger: - Class is permanent - Grey and Launchbury would be an interesting Lions combo thumbsup

by munkian Thu 17 Jan 2013, 4:31 pm

The Dragons will have Gray, he'd get on with Nimmo Very Happy

by fa0019 Thu 17 Jan 2013, 4:32 pm

Think Grey has to pull his finger out... he's been invisible all season.... I would say at the moment he's not in the final selection.

No good saying... "but he was great last season".

Shane Williams was world player of the year in 2008...... he was lucky to get on the plane in 2009.

by RubyGuby Thu 17 Jan 2013, 4:42 pm

Gray will be on the plane no problem - He's the only settled international 2nd row out of the 4 home nations thumbsup

by majesticimperialman Thu 17 Jan 2013, 4:44 pm

Morgannwg wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Morgannwg wrote:He's the best in Wales on form. He is better than all the Scottish hookers on form. Youngs is good, but I don't think he is better yet. I would need to see him become an England regular first. Hartley didn't feature in the autumn and since returning for Northampton has looked to have gone backwards. He has also got himself banned and is behind Youngs in my view. Therefore Hibbs is the best of what England, Wales and Scotland have to offer and a Lions squad member. Please cut out the bitter jealousy.

Not only are you not using any facts or examples to state why you think he is better you also feel more comfortable claiming I am bitter and jealous....

Away from personal insults and fabricated statements I would like to know why you think he is so high in not only the Wales pecking order but also why you think he'll displace far better and far more experienced hookers for the Lions?

Sure enough the acid test will be the 6N and there is a lot of competitive rugby to be played between now and then. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve plaudits, he is playing well but I think chill pills are in order. Wales Line out and Scrum was destroyed in the Autumn series, the lineout barely worked (save for that wonderful 14 man maul against NZ) and the scrum was crushed every time. So please enlighten me as to why he is so highly thought of.

Well what facts have you produced? Obviously jealous to be posting such a bitter article. Get over it ffs.

Secondly, you're wrong about the scrum and lineout being destroyed. Claims such as "the scrum was crushed every time" is a load of unsubstantiated bolox. Plus, Hibbard barely played. He was wrongfully overlooked as a starter for the first test, and got injured in the opening quarter of the second test. So yeah, these mystery lineouts and scrums that were destroyed at every single lineout and scrum were all Hibbards fault....

Typycal of you Morgannwg. Some one says that a (Welsh Player) is not the best in europe and you say they are beiing unfair and Jealous. Doh

Why can't you except that not every body thinks that Hibbard is the best Hooker in europe? Take off those Welsh tinted specs and get some reality in you. Like you say he maybe as you say the best in Wales. But in Europe he is not. thumbsup

by munkian Thu 17 Jan 2013, 4:51 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:
Morgannwg wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Morgannwg wrote:He's the best in Wales on form. He is better than all the Scottish hookers on form. Youngs is good, but I don't think he is better yet. I would need to see him become an England regular first. Hartley didn't feature in the autumn and since returning for Northampton has looked to have gone backwards. He has also got himself banned and is behind Youngs in my view. Therefore Hibbs is the best of what England, Wales and Scotland have to offer and a Lions squad member. Please cut out the bitter jealousy.

Not only are you not using any facts or examples to state why you think he is better you also feel more comfortable claiming I am bitter and jealous....

Away from personal insults and fabricated statements I would like to know why you think he is so high in not only the Wales pecking order but also why you think he'll displace far better and far more experienced hookers for the Lions?

Sure enough the acid test will be the 6N and there is a lot of competitive rugby to be played between now and then. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve plaudits, he is playing well but I think chill pills are in order. Wales Line out and Scrum was destroyed in the Autumn series, the lineout barely worked (save for that wonderful 14 man maul against NZ) and the scrum was crushed every time. So please enlighten me as to why he is so highly thought of.

Well what facts have you produced? Obviously jealous to be posting such a bitter article. Get over it ffs.

Secondly, you're wrong about the scrum and lineout being destroyed. Claims such as "the scrum was crushed every time" is a load of unsubstantiated bolox. Plus, Hibbard barely played. He was wrongfully overlooked as a starter for the first test, and got injured in the opening quarter of the second test. So yeah, these mystery lineouts and scrums that were destroyed at every single lineout and scrum were all Hibbards fault....

Typycal of you Morgannwg. Some one says that a (Welsh Player) is not the best in europe and you say they are beiing unfair and Jealous.

Why can't you except that not every body thinks that Hibbard is the best Hooker in europe? Take off those Welsh tinted specs and get some reality in you. Like you say he maybe as you say the best in Wales. But in Europe he is not.

Who is then and why ? People love an arguement on here rather than a debate....

by fa0019 Thu 17 Jan 2013, 5:01 pm

I heard interestingly that Tom Youngs had a very good game against the Ospreys on the weekend. Didn't catch it myself but people were saying he did very well upfront.

Did Hibbard out perform him?

by Morgannwg Thu 17 Jan 2013, 5:08 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:
Morgannwg wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Morgannwg wrote:He's the best in Wales on form. He is better than all the Scottish hookers on form. Youngs is good, but I don't think he is better yet. I would need to see him become an England regular first. Hartley didn't feature in the autumn and since returning for Northampton has looked to have gone backwards. He has also got himself banned and is behind Youngs in my view. Therefore Hibbs is the best of what England, Wales and Scotland have to offer and a Lions squad member. Please cut out the bitter jealousy.

Not only are you not using any facts or examples to state why you think he is better you also feel more comfortable claiming I am bitter and jealous....

Away from personal insults and fabricated statements I would like to know why you think he is so high in not only the Wales pecking order but also why you think he'll displace far better and far more experienced hookers for the Lions?

Sure enough the acid test will be the 6N and there is a lot of competitive rugby to be played between now and then. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve plaudits, he is playing well but I think chill pills are in order. Wales Line out and Scrum was destroyed in the Autumn series, the lineout barely worked (save for that wonderful 14 man maul against NZ) and the scrum was crushed every time. So please enlighten me as to why he is so highly thought of.

Well what facts have you produced? Obviously jealous to be posting such a bitter article. Get over it ffs.

Secondly, you're wrong about the scrum and lineout being destroyed. Claims such as "the scrum was crushed every time" is a load of unsubstantiated bolox. Plus, Hibbard barely played. He was wrongfully overlooked as a starter for the first test, and got injured in the opening quarter of the second test. So yeah, these mystery lineouts and scrums that were destroyed at every single lineout and scrum were all Hibbards fault....

Typycal of you Morgannwg. Some one says that a (Welsh Player) is not the best in europe and you say they are beiing unfair and Jealous.

Why can't you except that not every body thinks that Hibbard is the best Hooker in europe? Take off those Welsh tinted specs and get some reality in you. Like you say he maybe as you say the best in Wales. But in Europe he is not.

Earth to moron, where have I said he is the best in Europe?

Stop regurgitating nonsense and learn to read. Additionally, watch a damned game of rugby union.

Doh

by Morgannwg Thu 17 Jan 2013, 5:10 pm

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:
Morgannwg wrote:And, I was basing what I said on playing form, domestic league and european cup. Out of the Lions qualified hookers in Wales, England and Scotland I think Hibbard is the best.
Well, there's the rub. It's just opinion. There's no need to get so aggressive if other posters don't agree with you.

But somebody posted their opinion without fact then disagreed with my opinion and asked me to provide fact.

by bluestonevedder Thu 17 Jan 2013, 5:11 pm

fa0019 wrote:I heard interestingly that Tom Youngs had a very good game against the Ospreys on the weekend. Didn't catch it myself but people were saying he did very well upfront.

Did Hibbard out perform him?

Youngs did have a very good game, and had some decent runs with the ball in hand. One in particular stands out. Hibbard unfortunately had to go off with a sore shoulder, but was playing very well also. He was doing some good work on the deck, and think actually that he got injured while poaching a ball...?

by Morgannwg Thu 17 Jan 2013, 5:16 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Morgannwg wrote:Well yeah Samoa have improved in every aspect, in particular the scrum. And it's no surprise, look at the players they have. Oh so Scotland eradicated SA and NZ off the park then? I guess that's the issue of the Lions captian and Lions XV solved.

And, I was basing what I said on playing form, domestic league and european cup. Out of the Lions qualified hookers in Wales, England and Scotland I think Hibbard is the best. I'm looking forward to seeing him play in the 6 Nations but I also have a feeling his dodgy shoulder will get worse midway through the tournament and require surgery.

Under those condtitions you still think him a Lions candidate?

Also I didn't say anything like the Scottish Scrum eradicated NZ or SA. Again a bizzare fabrication.

In truth (although off topic) I think Scotland will produce only a handful of Lions players, however I think some of them will be likely starters. Gray and Hines being 2 of them, Visser another, Brown and Beattie being the others.

It's speculation. It hasn't happened yet, and it may not happen. Did that really need explaining to you?

I'm actually not sure why you brought the Scottish Scrum into this in the first place.

by fa0019 Thu 17 Jan 2013, 5:19 pm

Personally I think Youngs is moving up fast in the rankings.

I was a serious doubter at the beginning... mainly because I thought he was too much like Lee Mears (i.e. a pocket dynamo).. whereas Youngs looks a lot more impressive.

My one critic of him in the AIs was that he was carrying the ball to much. He should be clearing out rucks not taking the ball up. His body is perfect for rucks.. small and powerful. Yet it seemed Tuilagi was clearing up his drives for much of the series. A crazy role reversal.

Just needs to get more test matches under his belt. He's proving a lot of us wrong thus far.

by majesticimperialman Thu 17 Jan 2013, 5:32 pm

Morgannwg wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:
Morgannwg wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Morgannwg wrote:He's the best in Wales on form. He is better than all the Scottish hookers on form. Youngs is good, but I don't think he is better yet. I would need to see him become an England regular first. Hartley didn't feature in the autumn and since returning for Northampton has looked to have gone backwards. He has also got himself banned and is behind Youngs in my view. Therefore Hibbs is the best of what England, Wales and Scotland have to offer and a Lions squad member. Please cut out the bitter jealousy.

Not only are you not using any facts or examples to state why you think he is better you also feel more comfortable claiming I am bitter and jealous....

Away from personal insults and fabricated statements I would like to know why you think he is so high in not only the Wales pecking order but also why you think he'll displace far better and far more experienced hookers for the Lions?

Sure enough the acid test will be the 6N and there is a lot of competitive rugby to be played between now and then. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve plaudits, he is playing well but I think chill pills are in order. Wales Line out and Scrum was destroyed in the Autumn series, the lineout barely worked (save for that wonderful 14 man maul against NZ) and the scrum was crushed every time. So please enlighten me as to why he is so highly thought of.

Well what facts have you produced? Obviously jealous to be posting such a bitter article. Get over it ffs.

Secondly, you're wrong about the scrum and lineout being destroyed. Claims such as "the scrum was crushed every time" is a load of unsubstantiated bolox. Plus, Hibbard barely played. He was wrongfully overlooked as a starter for the first test, and got injured in the opening quarter of the second test. So yeah, these mystery lineouts and scrums that were destroyed at every single lineout and scrum were all Hibbards fault....

Typycal of you Morgannwg. Some one says that a (Welsh Player) is not the best in europe and you say they are beiing unfair and Jealous.

Why can't you except that not every body thinks that Hibbard is the best Hooker in europe? Take off those Welsh tinted specs and get some reality in you. Like you say he maybe as you say the best in Wales. But in Europe he is not.

Earth to moron, where have I said he is the best in Europe?

Stop regurgitating nonsense and learn to read. Additionally, watch a damned game of rugby union.

Earth or moron picard

You did say the Hibbard was the best of what England , Scotland and Wales have to offer and a Lions squad member.Please cut out the bitter jealousy. Doh

What Jealousy Morgannwg?

by Morgannwg Thu 17 Jan 2013, 5:58 pm

What the fudge are you going on about now?

Earth, being the rest of us, getting in touch with moron... Yes I did say that. Therefore I did not claim he was the best in Europe. Here is an idea, pull out a map and you'll find that the continent of Europe is made up of more than 3 countries.

Doh

Not sure why I waste my time with somebody so insignificant picard

by formerly known as Sam Thu 17 Jan 2013, 8:35 pm

I heard interestingly that Tom Youngs had a very good game against the Ospreys on the weekend. Didn't catch it myself but people were saying he did very well upfront.

Did Hibbard out perform him?

No, both had good games though which is good news for the international coaches and Lions selectors. The hookers both got stuck in, threw well at the lineout but the difference was Youngs explosive carries and massive hits (James King went back 10m after making an error in who to run at). The big eyecatching break from Tom was a great line at pace, bursting through two Ospreys tacklers and would have been a certain try had he had any support.

Looking forward to seeing round 2 in the 6N though it may be off the bench.

by thebluesmancometh Thu 17 Jan 2013, 8:45 pm

Everyone is talking about Best as a standout, and where it's hard to argue I don't think that it's that much down to his performance, he has been as he has been all his career, solid, dogged and has the hunger for a scrap.

I think it's that a lot of hookers at the minute are generally flawed in some way, but do we really want a solid but unspectacular player on the tour as Best is, or go for the potentially great with the likes of Hibbard, Youngs and Ford?

I'd personally go for Best, Ford and Hibbard right now, although Ford has been dire he has such great ability that may take a winning team to bring him out of.

I honestly think Best is buoyed by his very good tight 5 at Ulster a touch, but for all my slating I'd take him!

Strauss I wouldn't purely to not being Irish or Brit but thats a whole other argument...

by UlstermaninGlasgow Thu 17 Jan 2013, 10:57 pm

Bluesman

Best only solid and unspectacular? He doesn't carry as much as the others named, mainly as he has Healy at international level and Afoa at Club, both of whom love to bust through tacklers. But he has some of the softest hands you'll see from a forward, see Heaslip's try in the 6N last year, lovely thing! And he is a demon on the floor too, one of Ireland's key men in the ruck situation. And of course he does what every hooker should be able to do, i.e. throw straight at the lineout and compete in the scrums. I will admit he is buoyed by the strong Ulster crew but his lineout work is still pretty good, considering he has been missing his usual targer for both club and country recently!

by Standulstermen Fri 18 Jan 2013, 12:12 am

Triangulation wrote:
Standulstermen wrote:Coach in talking up his own player shock! It's like Humphreys thinks this praise might have a positive effect on his game! How very dare he!

Is that what he was doing is it Standulstermen?

It read more like he was pushing him forwards for Wales and Lions selection.

Frankly if Hibbard needed his tyres to be pumped up in this fashione in order to up his game then that would be a little odd for a 29 year old "kid" would it not?

No Stand, i think you're wrong.

I think RubyGuby is right.

He's entitled to. Mark anscombe said something like it would be ridiculous if Tom court didn't make the Ireland squad given what he had done to every TH he had come up against. Humphreys gave an opinion that will boost his players confidence. Every player thrives on confidence.they perform better when they have it, they don't quite hit the heights when they don't.

I don't think he is the best hooker in europe and i think Humphreys needs his head read but he is entitled to state his opinion. Much ado about nothing

by RubyGuby Fri 18 Jan 2013, 9:55 am

Talking to Gatland last week he currently has Best, Rees and Youngs pencilled in, however that is likely to change during thre 6 nations thumbsup

by thebluesmancometh Fri 18 Jan 2013, 11:45 am

Ulsterman

Don't get me wrong I like him, but if Ford picks up and sorts a few weaknesses out, Hibbards sorts out his lineout throwing and the likes of Youngs and Hartley/Strauss hit form I personally think Best is droppable.

My point was that he is good in every department, not spectacular, whereas some of the other candidates can be very very good in some departments. For me Best leads the way by default, because his all round game is the best at present, he his solid and dependable.

Very good traits to have in a hooker, but if he was put in that Lions 2009 tests series he wouldve struggled IMHO, I expect the Aus tour to be on of the highest quality and brutal tours ever and hopefully outdo SA (god knows how) so I want spectacular in every position.

by fa0019 Fri 18 Jan 2013, 11:51 am

thebluesmancometh

I agree. Best isn't undroppable. He's not stand out like Wood was in 97-01 (i.e. because he was an awesome world class player)... the reason why Best is up there is because he's deemed to be the top of an average bunch.

Its the same with a lot of positions this season.... Loosehead, No.5 jumping Lock, openside, No8, Flyhalf & inside centre I'd put in the same category.

I look at the 09 tour and would say at the moment its far superior than the potential '13 class... yet strength of a side is not the most important factor... its relative strength to its opposition which really counts.

by thebluesmancometh Fri 18 Jan 2013, 11:58 am

Well I wouldn't say hook was average in terms of quality, I think it's more a case of a few standouts have lost form and new guys are entering the mix.

But as it stands Best is definately number 1 or 2 if you want to be snippy!

by RubyGuby Fri 18 Jan 2013, 12:25 pm

He's Best, end of thumbsup

by Guest Fri 18 Jan 2013, 4:49 pm

I bet a few Ladies in Amsterdam would disagree with Humps comments laughing

by BlueNote Mon 18 Mar 2013, 3:42 pm

Interesting re-reading some of this - Humps may not have been so far off the mark after all...

by glamorganalun Mon 18 Mar 2013, 3:56 pm

Yep, interesting to compare him now that some on here have actually seen him play against the so called best hookers.

by t1000advancedprototype Mon 18 Mar 2013, 3:58 pm

I wouldn't say Hibbard's the best, but he's in the top 1.

by Morgannwg Mon 18 Mar 2013, 5:12 pm

I said he was the best in Wales and would be going on the Lions tour. I was disagreed with and called a WUM. Now Morg is the one laughing. Just like Hibbard is laughing... Laughing all the way to Australia! Who the eff is Ford? All bow down to Hibbard you bitter bunch!

by Guest Mon 18 Mar 2013, 5:20 pm

Reading back on this article just shows how clueless most people on here are with a mix of arrogance

by SecretFly Mon 18 Mar 2013, 5:29 pm

Well kind of a pointless exercise. You are what you play...and therefore, based on the 6N, quite a few of the Welsh players are the best in their positions...for now - not just Hibbard. And that's all you really can say for now as you have to keep proving yourself in Europe to keep the hat Wink

And that means Welsh players have to start proving (without the excuses) that they are the best in other conpetitions other than 6N.... they should now, and should have been proving worth in HC.

The pressure is on to be best in totality, without question-marks. No more excuses for such players that lack of crowds are keeping their regional exploits at lukewarm level.

by Aelandor Mon 18 Mar 2013, 5:31 pm

I'm amazed how Hartley still gets mentioned in the same terms as most of the others. He should go the way of Ashton.

by Ospreydragon Tue 19 Mar 2013, 12:00 am

Yes, Hibbard is so bad that Phil Vickery thought he was MOM. He is the form hooker in Wales.

by flyhalffactory Tue 19 Mar 2013, 12:21 am

Ospreydragon wrote:Yes, Hibbard is so bad that Phil Vickery thought he was MOM. He is the form hooker in Wales.

Do you think that Hibbard had a better game than Owens who came on after the 50 minute?

Wales were only 9-3 up at that point and weren't that dominant in the loose, lineout or scrum, and on the 55 min Owen started the try to start by ripping the ball off the English lock in the loose and started the second half rout

by Ospreydragon Tue 19 Mar 2013, 12:27 am

I think Owens is a better lineout thrower and he has been excellent every time he has come on as a sub. Hibbard, as Vickery rightly described him, is a tank, has been excellent in defence coupled with a very high work rate. Hibbard has clearly improved his fitness and conditioning too, which he's let slip in the past. Hibbard is the better player at the moment -- he offers a physical presence and has contributed a lot to a dominant Wales front row/front 5. I still think Hibbard needs to improve on his throwing though, which is his biggest weakness, and where Owens is better. Owens also has a bit more pace in the loose, but this is Hibbard's time and I think he's earned it.

by flyhalffactory Tue 19 Mar 2013, 12:37 am

Ospreydragon wrote:I think Owens is a better lineout thrower and he has been excellent every time he has come on as a sub. Hibbard, as Vickery rightly described him, is a tank, has been excellent in defence coupled with a very high work rate. Hibbard has clearly improved his fitness and conditioning too, which he's let slip in the past. Hibbard is the better player at the moment -- he offers a physical presence and has contributed a lot to a dominant Wales front row/front 5. I still think Hibbard needs to improve on his throwing though, which is his biggest weakness, and where Owens is better. Owens also has a bit more pace in the loose, but this is Hibbard's time and I think he's earned it.

Thats a fair assessment

I personally disagree and I think if the match was reviewed, the Welsh performance cranked up from the time Owens joined the front row, he deffo was instrumental in getting into the ruck quicker but also winning the ball which he did for the first try. I personally think that Owens will be much more effective in Oz against the Australian pack

But its a close call I agree

by 100%beefy Tue 19 Mar 2013, 2:48 am

viewtothegym wrote:Reading back on this article just shows how clueless most people on here are with a mix of arrogance

Every other word you use is arrogance...take at look at your sen view...

by 100%beefy Tue 19 Mar 2013, 2:49 am

Hibberd would be if not for Hartley

by **George Carlin** Tue 19 Mar 2013, 7:19 am

Hibbard is a good player but I'm getting tired of reading these screaming tabloid headlines. When you read down for more than a line, you see that it's their mate or coach that thinks they should be knighted/dipped in bronze/be the Lions captain.

I read the other day on the Beeb that AW Jones was going to be Lions captain. After one line it became clear that this was entirely on the back of a comment made by his mate Shane Williams.

by Ospreydragon Tue 19 Mar 2013, 12:34 pm

"he deffo was instrumental in getting into the ruck quicker but also winning the ball which he did for the first try" -- I certainly agree with you and suggested that as one of Owens' strengths. However, Wales would not have had the same scrum power with him starting. Wales' great win and dominance was based a lot on their set piece performance at scrum time in the first half and it woudl not have been as effective if Owens had started. Further, by the time Owens had come on, Eng were already wilting under all the pressure that had been exerted by Wales. Subs can often look good, but it doesn't always mean they would have been as effective if they'd started instead.

by mckay1402 Tue 19 Mar 2013, 12:37 pm

Hibbard and Owens are the two best hookers in Britain and Ireland. They should both go with the Lions with Best as backup.

by LordDowlais Tue 19 Mar 2013, 12:53 pm

Well, I was trying to stay away from this article and others with the same type's of titles, but when I found out when it was first published I had to have a peruse through it, and looking at the comments from a few months ago and to today I could not help but laugh, I have always thought that Hibbard was a decent player and he would either show in spells during a game that he has got something or he would have a stormer of a game one week and a nightmare the next, also when Wales decided to have that bright yellow top a few years back it did not do him any favours, but what we all need to realise is that props and hookers do not hit their prime until their early thirties late twenties and this is what Hibbard is doing now, he is hitting his prime, he has lost a lot of weight and he has learned the dark arts of the front row, he got picked a lot early on in his career because his throwing in at the line out was better than Matthew Rees, but he was so unfit he could not last the full eighty minutes, people go on about his hard tackling but he as always tackled like a train but now he has learned how to scrummage and he does not give penalties away, unlike Rory Best, if I were to pick the Lions front three today, they would all be Welsh, I cannot decide over Paul James and Gethin Jenkins though, but the fact we are talking about this just speaks volumes about how far Richard Hibbard has come on in the last few seasons, I bet the Leinster fans remember him for his winning try at the RDS last year as well. Whistle

by BlueNote Tue 19 Mar 2013, 12:56 pm

"Welsh players have to start proving (without the excuses) that they are the best in other conpetitions other than 6N.... they should now, and should have been proving worth in HC."

When you think that Adam Jones, Hibbard, AWJ, Ian Evans and Tipuric are all Ospreys, it makes you wonder quite how Ospreys have managed to muck it up year after year in the HC.

by mikey_philVIII Tue 19 Mar 2013, 7:55 pm

BlueNote wrote:"Welsh players have to start proving (without the excuses) that they are the best in other conpetitions other than 6N.... they should now, and should have been proving worth in HC."

When you think that Adam Jones, Hibbard, AWJ, Ian Evans and Tipuric are all Ospreys, it makes you wonder quite how Ospreys have managed to muck it up year after year in the HC.

It is probably the best pack in Europe. But tries, lots of tries are what wins you games in Europe and Ospreys don't get many as they start with 4 average scrum halves in their backline.

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