Scotland squad for the 6 Nations

First topic message reminder :

Edit - Original 1000 or so posts on this thread are here https://www.606v2.com/t38845p950-scotland-squad-for-the-6-nations - KiwiPete

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Been browsing some Rugby news sites...

Regarding the delay in announcing the Scotland captain, Johnson can't really be thinking about playing Stroks at 6 instead of brown can he?

No but there may be other players he feels could be better captains, given the strong representation of Glasgow in the squad, Kellock maybe.

Out of those I'd say Healy is a definite, maybe Jenkins too, but I wouldn't say Court or Sheriden were that much better than Grant, and I think he is better than Corbisiero and James!

I suspect Healy and Jenkins will go with the rest fighting it out for a 3rd spot.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Some staggering optimism here.

My view at present

Good chance - Richie Gray

Small chance - Murray, Ford, Denton, Rennie, Beattie, Scott, Visser, Maitland and Hogg.

Everyone else - no chance. No chance whatsoever.

I think you're being kind there FES. Maitlaind has barely been in the country 10 mins, he's going to have one 6 nations to show he's capable of playing international rugby (I think he'll be fine) but I don't see him having any chance of going on the lions tour. I would say that Brown could probably be added to the small chance pile. The rest I'd agree with, unless someone has an amazing/terrible 6 nations.

I'm not sure I agree RDW. Sheridan is keeping Jenkins out of the 15 at Toulon and has been talked about in the press by Gats.

James and Court are solid performers too and have been for quite a few seasons. Grant has had one, maybe two, good seasons. He'll be lucky to make the squad IMHO.

Personally I'd be happy if he had the summer off, he's played a fair bit this season after Glasgow's front row issues.

Well I disagree - I'd have all those players I named ahead of Grant, all are better (and in most cases more destructive) scrummagers, and most can at least match Grant's workrate (Sheridan aside).

I'm not a big fan of picking players based on experience, but in that department Sheridan and Jenkins are streets ahead.

Obviously a strong 6 Nations will be key, but to be honest I don't see Grant having much fun against Cole, Ross and Jones.

Clearly I'd love to be proven wrong on this!

Don't see him having the summer off if he doesn't get picked - Scotland are off to South Africa in June!

Ooops - you're absolutely right. No rest for the wicked eh...

I'd send Robin Hislop to South Africa. Goes away a boy, comes back a man!

EWT Spoons - I thought about Brown, and then I thought about Wood, Croft, Robshaw (whose ability to cover both sides may be valued), Ferris, SOB and Lydiate, and considered that four of those six would need to be injured in order for Brown to be picked.

I include Maitland purely because of what we know he's capable of. Happy to concede that his selection is less than likely.

I do think Brown will find it tough - he is an excellent all rounder as opposed to someone that stands out in a certain aspect. He's not a rampaging carrier or a destructive tackler, he is just a hard working guy that does all the dirty work and heavy lifting so to speak.

So he doesn't stand out as much as the likes of SoB, Ferris, Croft etc.

I'd take him over Lydiate though- who is very one-dimensional in his skill set(i.e. he just tackles well).

funnyExiledScot wrote: ..
EWT Spoons - I thought about Brown, and then I thought about Wood, Croft, Robshaw (whose ability to cover both sides may be valued), Ferris, SOB and Lydiate, and considered that four of those six would need to be injured in order for Brown to be picked.

Brown must have a good chance. Robshaw will (should) go as a 7. Wood and SOB are going. The other 3 it depends very much on how they come back from injury (Same for Rennie). No guarantees at all.

FES, fair point about Brown. I only included him as he has a slim chance considering his form for Sarries. However, I agree there is a lot of competition ahead of him.

What's happened to the thread?? 19 pages have gone missing!!

Have we broken 606V2??

the rest is here for some reason

https://www.606v2.com/t38845p950-scotland-squad-for-the-6-nations

clearly other nations were getting jealous and sabotaged us

Turns out that threads get shortened when they get between 1000-1300 posts. That's why the virtual pubs keep changing.

We've lost all of our good work!

We got greedy. We should have left it at 1000, started a new thread and left the original as a lasting monument of our tremendous effort.

We should all hang our heads in shame.

I personally blame Glas a du for his 18,759 film quotes.

only 885 more posts needed to get back to 1000

I've posted the link to the 1st 1000 posts in the (new) OP - I didn't know until now that you could "find" the old ones, useful to know.

Cheers Pete.

Strange that it splits the thread and puts the old one further down the list.

haha well that was pretty cool, thats my contribution for the year (But I merely created it, its the input that really counts), someone else's turn to start a monster thread!

Better do my starting XV again then I guess

1. Grant
2. MacArthur
3. Murray
4. Gray
5. Hamilton
6. Brown
7. Denton
8. Beattie
9. Pyrgos
10. Jackson
11. Visser
12. Scott
13. Dunbar
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

After some thought on the matter, I like the idea of the 9/10 partnership being an all glasgow affair instead of throwing Heathcote in the deep end again. If they wanna experiment with Laidlaw at 9 I'd prefer that to be done vs Italy, not England. Laidlaw on the bench would be good though as he can cover two positions. Laidlaw/Heathcote for Italy would be an interesting combo perhaps? Then Scotland have two weeks off to consider which options would be best to face Ireland and Wales at home.

This could also be replicated for nearly every other position apart from the 100% solid positions such as Gray, Grant etc. I mean, Scotland should try a few things out and try not to be too conservative. There is no pressure to win, so I'd rather Johnson finishes the 6N feeling like he really knows the potential of all the players. If likes of Horne, Murchie, MacArthur, Dunbar, Heathcote etc, get bugger all game time then its an opportunity wasted in my view.

Solid, sensible team vs England. Experimental changes vs Italy, ie, add Heathcote at 10, Horne at 12, Murchie at 15 etc. Thats what I'd do anyway.

I think we should not be taking Italy lightly and experimenting with players. We simply have to win that game if we stand a chance of beating Ireland and Wales.

If the 22 does well against England, keep them for Italy - it has to be that way.

RDW_Scotland wrote:I think we should not be taking Italy lightly and experimenting with players. We simply have to win that game if we stand a chance of beating Ireland and Wales.

If the 22 does well against England, keep them for Italy - it has to be that way.

Agreed, we can't go experimenting with the team and still expect to win. Italy have beaten us at Murrayfield and they'll be out to do that again. The game is in no way a gimmie. We need to maintain some consistency with the starting XV, unless they all have a shocker and get humped by England.

RDW_Scotland wrote:I personally blame Glas a du for his 18,759 film quotes.

But, but, but...

Scot Abroad wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:I think we should not be taking Italy lightly and experimenting with players. We simply have to win that game if we stand a chance of beating Ireland and Wales.

If the 22 does well against England, keep them for Italy - it has to be that way.

Agreed, we can't go experimenting with the team and still expect to win. Italy have beaten us at Murrayfield and they'll be out to do that again. The game is in no way a gimmie. We need to maintain some consistency with the starting XV, unless they all have a shocker and get humped by England.

Yes the idea that we 'experiment' against Italy is as ludicrous as it is patronising. Who hold the wooden spoon ? Some people just don't get how bad Scotland are obviously.

I think young Mr Heathcoat might benefit from a run out in the A-team.

That's a good idea actually. I like it.

I did some investigating and it appears that Cantebury took over as kit manufacturer in 2000, where we managed 1 win after winning the 5N the previous year. We have since recorded 16 wins and 2 draws in the 6N from 2000 to 2012. In conclusion, Cantebury were obviously bad luck and we should bring back Cotton Oxford!

RDW_Scotland wrote:I think we should not be taking Italy lightly and experimenting with players. We simply have to win that game if we stand a chance of beating Ireland and Wales.

If the 22 does well against England, keep them for Italy - it has to be that way.

I didn't mean Scotland should take Italy lightly. I even wrote a thread a few weeks ago on why every team in the 6N shouldn't take Italy lightly this year. What I meant was it would be good to try out a few different combinations this 6 Nations. If Johnson can do some of that in his first two games then it means he'll have a much better idea of what his players are capable of and he'll have 2 weeks to work with them before Wales game. If we win against England I wouldn't want Johnson to just throw the same team out again and expect to win against Italy. If he's serious about bringing through younger players then he should give them a go in my opinion, whilst rewarding players who perform well.

just has the mispleasure of watching the italy scotland game here in thailand on sentanta.

bloody bad viewing

if we can have a proper line defence and some structured play we can win these games

we are seriously underperforming

RDW_Scotland wrote:Cheers Pete.

Strange that it splits the thread and puts the old one further down the list.

It's logical in hindsight - I like that it doesn't actually delete the old thread, and it's down the list because the most recent post on the thread is the 1000th so could be a day or 2 earlier

why do the good threads die young?

A name not mentioned above, I also think Hines has a fair chance of touring, especially if Clermont get to the HK final, which I fully expect them to.

I haven't seen much chat on the board about this but what do people think of the SRU ending its Scotland shirt deal with Canterbury?

Over here, I've never actually bought a replica shirt so I have no idea what the quality of them is actually like but as a traditional shirtmaker, I will certainly miss seeing the three Kiwis on the front. That said, the scoopy collar thing always did my head in.

Who will get the job? I quite like the Addidas efforts for the Pumas and the All Blacks but there's chat of Macron getting the job. What do Edinburgh fans think of the quality of their shirts? They look very stylish but I've no idea if they fall to bits as quickly as the Edinburgh team has done this season...

RDW_Scotland wrote:Turns out that threads get shortened when they get between 1000-1300 posts. That's why the virtual pubs keep changing.

We've lost all of our good work!

We got greedy. We should have left it at 1000, started a new thread and left the original as a lasting monument of our tremendous effort.

We should all hang our heads in shame.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaa

George C,

You're a wee bit behind mate. Macron have already been announced as sponsoring the national team along with both pro teams.

george carlin

you are typical old boy with old ideas

what we need is new ideas ! and your are way way off the mark

which is this

front row

there are 2 games to play here

1. safe ford as hooker
2. macurthur as hooker

we need to take option 2

why ?

cause we cant afford to give the ball away - we will with ford throwing the darts

everyone knows this. there is nothing more to discuss here. macarthur in ford out.

second second row

1. hamiltion
2. kellock

this is a non discussion if any you have actually watched us play in any of the last 3 years . hamilton off. scrum in reverese

its ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

thats the start ill get onto stage 2 later..but the posters here appear to be blinded either by ignorance or stupidity

alive555 wrote:the posters here appear to be blinded either by ignorance or stupidity

I can't speak for everyone else, but I am really stupid.

ian bru

definitley u are

shall i start ?

EWT Spoons wrote:George C,

You're a wee bit behind mate. Macron have already been announced as sponsoring the national team along with both pro teams.

Fair do's. Can Macron now safely be re-named as 'Macaroon' in that case?

Mmmmmm. Macaroon.

"It's quiet chief"

"Too quiet, I don't like it"

"Nobody puts Glas in a corner..."

http://m.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/top-rugby-stories/scotland-s-richie-gray-rested-ahead-of-six-nations-1-2760274

Looks like all our key players are being rested this weekend, which is great news.

worrying that the sru asked for max Evans to be tested though...

Players would want to play though wouldn't they, keep their hand in?

It's only the lv cup so not exactly worth missing out on the 6n over!

plus it's only one week off, they're not exactly gonna suddenly become rusty because of it.

plus all the other home nations players are rested.

Fair enough, but Parra, Rougerie and Fofana played in France last night. This obsession with not allowing players to play is a feature of the modern game, yet they NEVER MISS TRAINING. It's as if training is the now the end, not the means to an end. In the 60's Llanelli used to play a game on Christmas Day AND Boxing Day. In the 90's the Welsh Cup used to be played in the weeks between 5 Nations matches and the national squad would play for their clubs. Coaches should coach not nanny.

alive555 wrote:george carlin

you are typical old boy with old ideas

what we need is new ideas ! and your are way way off the mark

which is this

front row

there are 2 games to play here

1. safe ford as hooker
2. macurthur as hooker

we need to take option 2

why ?

cause we cant afford to give the ball away - we will with ford throwing the darts

everyone knows this. there is nothing more to discuss here. macarthur in ford out.

second second row

1. hamiltion
2. kellock

this is a non discussion if any you have actually watched us play in any of the last 3 years . hamilton off. scrum in reverese

its ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

thats the start ill get onto stage 2 later..but the posters here appear to be blinded either by ignorance or stupidity

Nihilist !

"What are nihilists Walter?"
"Nothing to worry about Donnie"

Glas a du wrote:Fair enough, but Parra, Rougerie and Fofana played in France last night. This obsession with not allowing players to play is a feature of the modern game, yet they NEVER MISS TRAINING. It's as if training is the now the end, not the means to an end. In the 60's Llanelli used to play a game on Christmas Day AND Boxing Day. In the 90's the Welsh Cup used to be played in the weeks between 5 Nations matches and the national squad would play for their clubs. Coaches should coach not nanny.

It is a fair point, but the difference between France and Scotland is if one of their players gets injured the week before the 6N there are at least 2 or 3 top class players that can step up and not have a massive affect on the team.

If Gray and Brown played and got injured in a crappy LV cup game(chances will be higher because subconsciously they would be trying to avoid injury - which inversely would increase the chances!) then we would have at a push 1 top class player to replace them, and it would have a large affect on the team.

I agree that players never miss training, but at least training is a lot more controlled than games.

Alive555

Agree with your ideas about hooker and second row. Not only has Ford endured an appalling season, particularly with his darts, but he has also not played for more than a month and cant be match fit. Has to be either hall (for his experience) or MacArthur ( better all round game) to start. Ford should not be in the 23.
In the second row Gray has been anonymous in a poor Sale pack so why should he be considered as a starter? Hamilton has added a lot to his game in terms of offloading at Gloucester and brings good power to the scrum.

Kellock is the best middle jumper we have, is on form, and has great leadership skills.

Gray off the bench when defences are tiring seems a good option.

We simply cannot keep selecting players on their reputation, even young and talented ones if they are not currently producing the goods, week in week out.

Which means i would pick Harley ahead of Denton at 7. He has enjoyed better form this season than Denton and he is proabably the best tackler availabe for our back row. His work rate is insane and he reads the game really well. He isnt a 7 but he makes an better approximation than Denton who's main stength is as an attacker rather than a defender. He has also played the last couple of games for Warriors at 7.

Harley also adds another lineout option to help put pressure on one of England's strongest facets of play.

I would pick 6. Brown 7. Harley and 8. Beattie (back on form at Montpellier)

Remember that Gray was awesome in the AIs (especially against nz) despite being in a poor sale team.

He's never really had a bad game for Scotland and he's gonna be going out there with a point to prove for the lions

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Glas a du wrote:Fair enough, but Parra, Rougerie and Fofana played in France last night. This obsession with not allowing players to play is a feature of the modern game, yet they NEVER MISS TRAINING. It's as if training is the now the end, not the means to an end. In the 60's Llanelli used to play a game on Christmas Day AND Boxing Day. In the 90's the Welsh Cup used to be played in the weeks between 5 Nations matches and the national squad would play for their clubs. Coaches should coach not nanny.

It is a fair point, but the difference between France and Scotland is if one of their players gets injured the week before the 6N there are at least 2 or 3 top class players that can step up and not have a massive affect on the team.

If Gray and Brown played and got injured in a crappy LV cup game(chances will be higher because subconsciously they would be trying to avoid injury - which inversely would increase the chances!) then we would have at a push 1 top class player to replace them, and it would have a large affect on the team.

I agree that players never miss training, but at least training is a lot more controlled than games.

Yes, I wouldn't play Gray and Brown. Perhaps this isn't the best context, but this cotton wool wrapping of players has a lot to do with superstition and has gone too far in my view, especially in the Rabo.

Richie Vernon doing his best to put his hand up for selection with a try against the Scarlets.

Aye but Glove in a fairly low key game tbh. He did play very well though and I thought he was MoM

At the risk of being ostracised, I'm not convinced that Ritchie Gary deserves his place in the current team. Al Kellock and Jim Hamilton are playing well at club level whereas Gray has been fairly anonymous in a struggling team.
Gray is constantly touted as our one true world class player but he doesn't compare to Sergio Parrise who is a constant stand out in a similarly poorly performing international side and is truly world class.(I know they play different positions)
I don't doubt that he has the potential to be world class but other than his stand out game against France in Paris a few years ago,he hasn't won me over or done enough to justify the constant praise he receives.