Cena/Rock (Potential spoiler)

Just found this on one of the dirtsheets:

- There has been an ongoing discussion within WWE about how John Cena will defeat The Rock at WrestleMania 29 in New York City without upsetting a lot of fans. There's a feeling among some that Cena must get the win this time. It's already expected that Cena will be booed out of the building.

So a Cena clean win then?

Or does anybody expect Rock to win, or a swerve?

Can't help budge the notion that The Shield are working with Cena and we finally get the heel-turn, but probably more wishful thinking. If WWE know Cena is going to get booed out of the building though then why not make it happen.

because they sell too much merchandise to kids to turn cena heel

There isn't really much point in having the match if Rock is going to go over clean again.

I understand the merchandise sales and all the but if WWE knows that Cena is going to get "booed out of the building" in a Mania main event then why not make it an iconic moment.

I don't expect to see it, i think Cena wins clean and we see a handshake to end but I am throwing a hypothetical around.

Nobody else think The Shield could be involved, hired by Cena to get the job done in the big one?

I just think with Hunter getting more power backstage he might push for more ground-breaking moments.

whats everyones obssession with the handshake? cenas been in wwe for over 10 years now, so its no passing of the torch moment

It isn't supposed to be a "passing of the torch" but it would tie into the whole redemption of Cena storyline that WWE have played in the last year.Rock showing his respect for Cena, considering he never has before. That is why the handshake would be a big deal.

I can see it ending with Rock handing Cena the title ala Hogan/Warrior WM6.

Why does everyone want someone else working with The Sheild? They're fine doing it on their own.

Seems the same idea theres talk of a heel turn. Was the same with Nexus.

Personally (and I know this isn't a popular view), I'll be really annoyed if Cena dosn't win clean, like him or loath him he's been the WWE's top babyface for nearly a decade now and it would be madness to portray him as forever inferior to a man who only wrestles roughly 3 times a year

Cena should win clean because:

a) he is the top guy in the company
b) he needs to move onto something more interesting
c) if he does this will be the peak win of his career and may signal the zenith and end of SuperCena
d) any other finish would necessitate Cena/Rock III at some point in future...

I've been sayong for a while now that I think Cena might be behind The Shield, not that I'm a fan of anyone using them as pawns but I can definitely see it, the whole injustice of The Rock coming back, getting a Main Event spot and a fluke win over the WWE's Golden nugget, I can see that as a storyline that not only makes sense and ties in with a lot of things, it also offers continuity.

I can't stand people who just throw out the whole 'cena sells to much merch' line, we all know that, but in 1996 no-one in the history of the business year in year out for the previous decade sold more merch than Hogan and he turned and it was a stroke of genuis from a business prespective, kids will still want merch, it just won't be Cena merch

Yeah the merch statement is a non statement to be honest, if Cena turns heel wwe will make a new top face, let's say ryback for example and the kids will want 'feed me more' t-shirts instead of 'hustle loyalty respect' ones.

Well there will be rock/cena 3 because rock will have a rematch.

nah wont happen will be rock v some one else at WM30 hopefully

Isn't Rock suppose to be at Extreme Rules, re match could be then.

NickisBHAFC wrote:Isn't Rock suppose to be at Extreme Rules, re match could be then.

Apparently not.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1548059-wwe-news-the-rocks-extreme-rules-status-revealed

their match last year wasn't that bad, not the best match of the night but good nevertheless. As long as there are no botches the rematch has the potential to be even better as they have worked with each other already and Rock has had more matches this year to knock the ring rust off. WWE shouldn't worry about people jeering Cena if he wins, it happens in real sports so if wrestling is supposed to mimic a real sport then the WWE can't control everything. As long as Cena and Rock put on a good match that surprises people (like Cena v Punk at MITB 2011) then fans will respect Cena.

Why not have Cena side with Heyman at Mania thus moving Punk back as top face?

what if punk screws the rock and helps cena win the title, telling cena he deserves the rematch as he couldnt have beaten the rock without punks help, and also punk still claims he didnt lose to the rock fairly so he should still be champion in theory, and demands a rematch.

or how about, punk screwing the rock and building an alliance with cena, similar to what austin and triple h did.

Putting dislike of Cena to one side, am I the only person who thinks that Cena failing to beat The Rock cleanly is a really bad move?

I'm not a fan of screwy finishes in main events of a ppv especially Wrestlemania but if it meant something huge like a full on Cena heel turn and association with The Shield then i'd be all for it because a) it delivers a shock factor and gets people talking, b) it gives Cena a new direction and probably more importantly c) it gives the WWE a new direction.

If it was a screwy finish where Cena wins the title but maintains his character and usual schtick then no, i'd be dead against it. It would have to be something titanic which would change the landscape of the company and the only person who can deliver that is Cena.

That being said i cant see anything other than a clean Cena win. It makes perfect booking sense. I do fear a cringeworthy embrace at the end of the match though, that would just be plain horrible.

Undertake comes down, gets Cena the win, Rock v Taker next year, thats a way to keep Undertaker involved at Wrestlemania weithout wrestling

I've got to admit, I'm not all clued up on the rules regarding losing the title, doesn't Punk still have his title rematch clause? So, could we still see Punk enter into this and create a triple threat?

Punk lost the title at The Rumble Jammy and invoked his rematch clause at Elimination Chamber.

Antlord, I take it you’re joking about the Undertaker thing, right?

Mr H wrote:Punk lost the title at The Rumble Jammy and invoked his rematch clause at Elimination Chamber.

Antlord, I take it you’re joking about the Undertaker thing, right?

yes

Cena should win clean.

And the heel turn can wait. I just don't get the urge for it to happen.
Vince isn't gonna change one his most enduring characters just to briefly please a few thousand internet marks that can't move on from wrestling. It's always been entertainment primarily for kids and always will be. They love Cena, he's their superman. Our supermen weren't taken away from us, why do so many want him taken away from this generation of youngsters?

Most of the readers here had Austin. Heel or face they kept him the same throughout his WWF/E tenure. My generation had Hogan/Warrior and Vince didn't turn either of them. As much as I preferred Warrior, I'd have been devastated if Hogan had heel turned at WM6. The older fans would've loved it, but that's not what wrestling is about.

History shows us that Vince rarely turns the top guy. It's only when the young fans start to root for someone else that it happens. Rybotch has potential, but he hasn't got there yet..

I was 7 nearly 8 at Mania 6 but I wouldn't have gave a damn if Hogan became a bad guy, my main concern was Warrior winning the big one, I'd probably have been davastated if Warrior turned

I wouldn't say Austin played the same character heel or face, maybe at the start but the heel that Austin became in 2001 was far removed from the DTA Badass he was that got him so hugely over in 97/98

Kid Vicious wrote:Cena should win clean.

And the heel turn can wait. I just don't get the urge for it to happen.
Vince isn't gonna change one his most enduring characters just to briefly please a few thousand internet marks that can't move on from wrestling. It's always been entertainment primarily for kids and always will be. They love Cena, he's their superman. Our supermen weren't taken away from us, why do so many want him taken away from this generation of youngsters?

Most of the readers here had Austin. Heel or face they kept him the same throughout his WWF/E tenure. My generation had Hogan/Warrior and Vince didn't turn either of them. As much as I preferred Warrior, I'd have been devastated if Hogan had heel turned at WM6. The older fans would've loved it, but that's not what wrestling is about.

History shows us that Vince rarely turns the top guy. It's only when the young fans start to root for someone else that it happens. Rybotch has potential, but he hasn't got there yet..

This is an extremely good point.As far as the Internet fans are concerned,Cena is already a heel as they boo the hell out of him...if they turned him heel,internet fans will cheer him and kids will boo him and wont want to buy the shirts/figures/sweatbands...his character is already the perfect heel for adults,who will passionately react to him and that creates good atmosphere with the opposing views,I don't know about anyone else but I love hearing
"Lets go Cena"
"CENA SUCKS"

Granted he is a bit stale,I think he should have taken a bit of time off after Extreme Rules.

Kid Vicious wrote:Cena should win clean.

And the heel turn can wait. I just don't get the urge for it to happen.
Vince isn't gonna change one his most enduring characters just to briefly please a few thousand internet marks that can't move on from wrestling. It's always been entertainment primarily for kids and always will be. They love Cena, he's their superman. Our supermen weren't taken away from us, why do so many want him taken away from this generation of youngsters?

Most of the readers here had Austin. Heel or face they kept him the same throughout his WWF/E tenure. My generation had Hogan/Warrior and Vince didn't turn either of them. As much as I preferred Warrior, I'd have been devastated if Hogan had heel turned at WM6. The older fans would've loved it, but that's not what wrestling is about.

History shows us that Vince rarely turns the top guy. It's only when the young fans start to root for someone else that it happens. Rybotch has potential, but he hasn't got there yet..

When Austin turned heel his gimmick did a 180. He tapped to Rock the next night on Raw. He then went mental for a couple of months before turning into comedy no confrontation Austin for a few weeks while he was injured.

I believe unless Cena really pushed for his heel turn, we just won't see it until it's too late to make any sort of impact it could have.

It's always been entertainment primarily for kids and always will be. They love Cena, he's their superman. Our supermen weren't taken away from us, why do so many want him taken away from this generation of youngsters?

Look at Bret Hart in the 90's. The kids loved him. The whole shades thing before matches. He took time out after WM12 and his character took on a whole new dimension when he started to become whingey the WWE is screwing me and the fans don't care and turned heel. The kids will find a new hero. Hell HBK became the kids new favourite.

It's not all doom and gloom turning the top guy heel and it could work. Like with Hart you had Austin who had the whole momentum behind him. Cena has that with Punk who has the whole momentum behind him. Let Cena go heel.

Cena turning heel will revoltionise the WWE and the way they look at things in my opinion, the problem is the money they're making, they're doing great business World Wide, they need to seriously believe that it will actually be good for business for the Heel turn, no-one will ever be a bigger face than Cena in the WWE, that's the problem, no-one else has a chance, turn Cena heel for 3/4 years you could build at least two new top faces then when its time for Cena to see the light the WWE would have plenty of go-to faces.

Cena shouldn't turn heel because smarks want him too, he should turn because the guys writing the material in WWE think its the best way forward for the forseeable future, I also think Cena turning would be a fantatic way to finally put a story in place that could unify the World Titles

Savage turned heel when he was the World Champion, Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels both turned heel at the peak of their characters in 97, Taker turned heel a few times while at the top and Austin and Rock both turned Heel while they where top of the tree not forgetting Triple H's turn in 2002 when he was probably the biggest face they had that was active

Kay Fabe wrote:Cena shouldn't turn heel because smarks want him too, he should turn because the guys writing the material in WWE think its the best way forward for the forseeable future, I also think Cena turning would be a fantatic way to finally put a story in place that could unify the World Titles

Nail on head. Totally agree about the title unification point too.

Speaking of the unification, how would you want to see it go down? Can’t decide if I’d have WHC and WWE title matches at Wrestlemania 30 with the winners of each match facing each other later in the night to unify the titles. Have a blockbuster couple of matches of Lesnar v Rock WHC and Punk v Cena WWE then a Punk v Lesnar Unification with Punk getting the huge win. Or even have Taker involved and win his first match to win the title and retain the streak then lose to Cena later in the night to lose the title and the streak. Then the mark in me wakes up.

I’d probably prefer both champions to go into Mania and face eachother than a tournament though. Gives it a better build.

I'm not saying Vince doesn't turn people at the top of the card, but there's a difference between being the Champ and the Number 1 guy. It's the Company Face he rarely turns.

When a character becomes stale and there's a ready replacement for him, it has happened. Hart had Austin, and when Austin turned he was already near the end and was part of a saturated roster with which to build a new face. Cena has neither.

I’d argue that in CM Punk you have a number 1 guy waiting to happen. In 2011 he arguably WAS the number 1 guy. His popularity and merch sales put even John Cena in the shade. Unfortunately he was terribly booked with the whole HHH/Nash angle. If Punk returned to that character, less the shoot references, and received the creative backing and high profile push I believe he could easily get over as the number 1 company guy.

It also doesn’t matter one bit that he’s currently heel. You could easily do a double turn. Maybe have The Shield assist Cena in beating The Rock and it turns out Paul Heyman ordered it and Cena didn’t reject the chance. Next night on Raw you have Punk asking Heyman what the hell is he doing etc, only for The Shield and Cena to come out. Punk receives a beatdown and Cena takes his shirt off to reveal a ‘Im a Paul Heyman Guy’ t-shirt. You instantly have the fans on Punk’s side and he grows from there.

Yeah, Punk is always on the precipice of getting face reactions and I think his natural charisma and talent means that it's only because he's so good of a heel that he can keep the fans booing him, unlike a certain Mr. Orton. I think it would take very little for the fans to start cheering Punk again, particularly against a heel Cena.

Mr H wrote:

Kay Fabe wrote:Cena shouldn't turn heel because smarks want him too, he should turn because the guys writing the material in WWE think its the best way forward for the forseeable future, I also think Cena turning would be a fantatic way to finally put a story in place that could unify the World Titles

Nail on head. Totally agree about the title unification point too.

Speaking of the unification, how would you want to see it go down? Can’t decide if I’d have WHC and WWE title matches at Wrestlemania 30 with the winners of each match facing each other later in the night to unify the titles. Have a blockbuster couple of matches of Lesnar v Rock WHC and Punk v Cena WWE then a Punk v Lesnar Unification with Punk getting the huge win. Or even have Taker involved and win his first match to win the title and retain the streak then lose to Cena later in the night to lose the title and the streak. Then the mark in me wakes up.

I’d probably prefer both champions to go into Mania and face eachother than a tournament though. Gives it a better build.

Right, when I first mentioned this I was just kinda thinking out loud but the more I thought about it the more I really do think it could work.

If Cena turned heel at WrestleMania with Vince and possibly The Shield on board and won the Title I'd love to see him become so infatuated with the belt and beating Punks 434 day record that he has total control over his opponents, Cena would still in kayfabe terms be a World Class performer so I would at least in the beginning of his reign give him credible opponents, guys like Kofi Kingston and R-Truth, guys he should beat even if he was off his game, after a few months of Cena monopolising the WWE Title I could see a dressing room revolt when guys like CM Punk & Randy Orton and maybe even Ryback or Sheamus try and fail to get a title shot, so every big name decide that no-one will touch the WWE Title and all decide to focus on the WHC Title, we then see Vince McMahon like the great political promoter he truly is by offering guys in the midcard, guys like Cody Rhodes/Santino possibly even Daniel Bryan a better contract, offer them greater opportunities if they sign a contract to face Cena.

After a while and a very strong Main Event Division for the WHC I'd have CM Punk win the title around Survivor Series time, after retaining the Titles at TLC and The Rumble I'd have the Rumble winner get his Title match at the Elimination Chamber, this would Bastardise the Rumble slightly but I feel its been devalued over the years anyway and this wouldn't be such a big deal...all the while Cena would be beating these nobodies that Vince has managed to feed him, it allows him to delude himself into believing he's the Best in the World while maintaining that he'll beat Punks 434 day reign...this delusion that he's the best in the World due to his winning streak from Mania 29 allows him to be goaded into accepting the Challange from CM Punk, Title vs Title - World Title Unification bout at WrestleMania 30

What way the result goes would be up to whatever way they want to take the storyline, they might feel it would be a perfect time to dethrone Cena or they may want to at least make a heel Cena get to within days of Punks record before stopping him but that's the way I think I'd like to see it.

Some might say it devalues the WWE Title, they could be right but I'm a believer of having a means to an end and I think it could really work, the WHC Title scene would need to play out on both RAW and SD even more so than it does now, I think this kind of story also allows the WWE to prepare for the eventuality of having one World Title

Kid Vicious wrote:I'm not saying Vince doesn't turn people at the top of the card, but there's a difference between being the Champ and the Number 1 guy. It's the Company Face he rarely turns.

When a character becomes stale and there's a ready replacement for him, it has happened. Hart had Austin, and when Austin turned he was already near the end and was part of a saturated roster with which to build a new face. Cena has neither.

I do agree with what you're saying, Vince doesn't usually turn the face of the company, I do often wonder though if he had the benefit of hindsight if he would have turned Hogan in 93...by 92 the fans had become bored of him, turning him heel when he returned in 93 could have gave the WWF the boost they needed through 93, 94 and 95

Vince surely knows he made a mistake with Hogan, I wonder if he can see the same signs with Cena, Cena could still have his best years ahead of him from a storyline prespective.

Also, its only with hindsight now that we know Austin was on his way down in 2001, I think he'd have had years left in him had they used him properly

Mr H wrote:Punk lost the title at The Rumble Jammy and invoked his rematch clause at Elimination Chamber.

Antlord, I take it you’re joking about the Undertaker thing, right?

Oh yeah! Hahaha, I completely forgot that was the re-match! My bad. Thanks for clearing that up

Kay Fabe wrote:

Kid Vicious wrote:I'm not saying Vince doesn't turn people at the top of the card, but there's a difference between being the Champ and the Number 1 guy. It's the Company Face he rarely turns.

When a character becomes stale and there's a ready replacement for him, it has happened. Hart had Austin, and when Austin turned he was already near the end and was part of a saturated roster with which to build a new face. Cena has neither.

I do agree with what you're saying, Vince doesn't usually turn the face of the company, I do often wonder though if he had the benefit of hindsight if he would have turned Hogan in 93...by 92 the fans had become bored of him, turning him heel when he returned in 93 could have gave the WWF the boost they needed through 93, 94 and 95

Vince surely knows he made a mistake with Hogan, I wonder if he can see the same signs with Cena, Cena could still have his best years ahead of him from a storyline prespective.

Also, its only with hindsight now that we know Austin was on his way down in 2001, I think he'd have had years left in him had they used him properly

We came blame Owen for that.

nasisillmatic wrote:

Kay Fabe wrote:

Kid Vicious wrote:I'm not saying Vince doesn't turn people at the top of the card, but there's a difference between being the Champ and the Number 1 guy. It's the Company Face he rarely turns.

When a character becomes stale and there's a ready replacement for him, it has happened. Hart had Austin, and when Austin turned he was already near the end and was part of a saturated roster with which to build a new face. Cena has neither.

I do agree with what you're saying, Vince doesn't usually turn the face of the company, I do often wonder though if he had the benefit of hindsight if he would have turned Hogan in 93...by 92 the fans had become bored of him, turning him heel when he returned in 93 could have gave the WWF the boost they needed through 93, 94 and 95

Vince surely knows he made a mistake with Hogan, I wonder if he can see the same signs with Cena, Cena could still have his best years ahead of him from a storyline prespective.

Also, its only with hindsight now that we know Austin was on his way down in 2001, I think he'd have had years left in him had they used him properly

We came blame Owen for that.

I blame Primo Francis

I'm pretty sure that it was The Miz's fault.

Crimey wrote:I'm pretty sure that it was The Miz's fault.

You're right. How could I have missed that.

Apparently now Rock is confirmed for the Extreme Rules PPV and some Raw episodes in the buildup to it.

Does this change any opinions on the outcome at Mania?

Still think Cena will win and maybe an angle at Extreme Rules where Rock is taken out of action so he can go to do movies. Leaves a storyline open for when he returns, perhaps around Summerslam or later in the year.

JJJohnson wrote:Apparently now Rock is confirmed for the Extreme Rules PPV and some Raw episodes in the buildup to it.

Does this change any opinions on the outcome at Mania?

Still think Cena will win and maybe an angle at Extreme Rules where Rock is taken out of action so he can go to do movies. Leaves a storyline open for when he returns, perhaps around Summerslam or later in the year.

My money would be on that.

Could we have Cena, Rock & Ryback vs The Sheild?

Smark-gasam

On reflection I probably shouldn't have used the words Cena, Ryback and Smark-gasam in the same post, would still be a quality match though IMO