Over rated Lions contenders

Quite simple, players who's reputation far exceeds their deeds:

15 Stuart "flat track" Hogg
14 Tim "Mac" Visser
13 Jonathan "Not a natural passer of the ball" Davies
12 Jamie "3 yards" Roberts
11 Mike "glory hunter" Brown
10 Toby "go it alone" Flood
9 Danny "Slice" Care

1 Gethin "Too long in Toulon" Jenkins (although "Chapel" Healy deserves a special mention...)
2 Rory "Yellow Card machine" Best
3 Mike "scrummages in his sleep" Ross
4 Jim "BFG" Hamilton
5 Geoff "SCW doesn't like my beard" Parling
6 Sean "penalty machine" O'Brien
8
7 Sam "Hates Justin" Warburton







Jamie Heaslip

Heaslip at 8 has to be. Don't know about Parling but agree with the rest

Can anybody tell me what Parling does to get all this praise? O'Mahoney is another who is very lucky as well. Not that he plays closer to his rep, but the hype about SOB is stratospheric...

P.S. lost - Heaslip is at 8. It's a visual joke, see?

Apologies browsing this site while doing a course in finite element analysis probably isnt too smart

Have to disagree with most there mate, firstly because a lot of them aren't that highly rated on here.

Warbs been out of the reckoning for a while, and is now just on the fringes.

Parling similarly is a fringe man.

When did Ross become any sort of comp for the big 2?

Jenkins has no reputation to ruin right now.

Flood hasn't played for England, who said he was a lion?

The likes of Hogg, Visser, JD2, Brown, and even SOB are not armwrestle bogmen they are having to play right now.


But...

The players that worry me are:

Best - Head and shoulders before 6N, but now looking vulnerable against a better class of opposition.

Roberts - Again certain to tour but has looked like he's running in custard recently!

Danny Care - hailed as England and Lion saviour at 9 has been awfull, the speed demon has proved readable and very one dimensional!!!

On the plus side there are players who's rep was good and have cemented a seat on the plain...

1/2p - If he doesn't go I'll eat my hat!!!

Farell - As above!

Phillips - hailed by some, hated by others, has risen IMHO to be Wales most important player!

Laidlaw - the 9/10 experiment over with he has been excellent in every department and would be my test 9 right now (even without his goal kicking)

Robshaw - has been superb and the heart beat of England forward dominance!!!

Cole/Jones - WOWSER, we have the perfect combo of Scrum destruction and mobile dog!!!

Ian Evans - Anyone still think he won't go?

I think Visser is a tad unlucky to be on the list. Yes he can't tackle but he's one of the best wingers in Europe and had he played for any other home nation he'd be ringing in the tries.

Maitland and Visser get no service and thus are only really seen in a defensive capacity.... had Cuthbert been in the same position I think he'd be rated a worse lions contender then Peter Wright in 93.

I'd swap Ross for Euan Murray. Held up as a world class player for years but in the clutch matches he's often quiet.

I think you have the 8 spot on as Heaslip has been anonomous for most of the 6 Nations

I dont see why SOB is there. How many tackles has he had to make? Always up there as a top carrier and top metres gained.

Its not his fault Ireland dont have a clue how to use him. Wait until you see him for Leinster.

Do you want me to swap SOB for POM then LF4L?

Id put Wood in there

I reckon Hogg is a good player, especially as an attacking full back. Certainly if we want to play a counter attacking game against the Ozzies he should be the test starter with Halfpenny on the wing.

Let me be clear that I think Halfpenny has been the best player in the 6N of all the home nations. He is utterly brilliant, but as Jiffy touched on in Scrum V when he came under some criticism he has regressed in his attacking ability. Probably because Cuthbert and North are such destructive strike runners.

Wales miss a trick by nt bringing Halfpenny into the line more. I certainly think he'll be key to beating England this weekend, his elusive running offers something different from North and Cuthbert's route 1 stuff.

For me an over rated Lion contender would be Care, I certainly can't see Visser touring, especially since Maitland offers a lot more as a link man.

Hamilton has never really been a contender for me, even after making a mess of Rory Best's lineout when Ireland played Scotland.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Id put Wood in there

Thats hardly fair, he has no lions reputation and at 6 he's probably the best around, 8 is not his position!!!

In a list of overrated players SOB and Wood wouldn't be in there, but SOB would be far closer to the list than Wood

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Id put Wood in there

Can we keep this one clean please, there may be children reading

I see this thread as a bit tongue in cheek, Heaslip, Hogg etc have all shown that they have Lions talent, it's been a difficult 6 nations often in difficult conditions. To ignore those facts is to miss the point in all honesty.

Agree with a lot of the original selections. Only a few that I'd question:

Stuart Hogg has been great, his name shouldn't be anywhere near this team. Far superior to Goode whose name has also been mentioned in Lions discussions.

Danny Care looked fairly dangerous given very limited opportunities over the first 3 games. Wasn't brilliant against Italy but no one was. Box kick aside (yes it was terrible, but we're all allowed occasional mistakes) he was not one of the worst performers, despite being stuck inside a useless 10. Definitely still one of the top 3 SHs if club form is also taken into consideration.

Best hasn't been at the top of his game since the first round, but he's still the outstanding candidate for the test shirt.

Roberts hasn't had an eye catching tournament but has been a key cog in a strong defence and given previous performances and overall ability he's probably still likely to tour.

As mentioned on another thread, Warburton has only started 2 matches including a MOTM performance! Not at his best throughout but harsh listing him here.

jeffwinger wrote:Agree with a lot of the original selections. Only a few that I'd question:

Stuart Hogg has been great, his name shouldn't be anywhere near this team. Far superior to Goode whose name has also been mentioned in Lions discussions.

Danny Care looked fairly dangerous given very limited opportunities over the first 3 games. Wasn't brilliant against Italy but no one was. Box kick aside (yes it was terrible, but we're all allowed occasional mistakes) he was not one of the worst performers, despite being stuck inside a useless 10. Definitely still one of the top 3 SHs if club form is also taken into consideration.

Best hasn't been at the top of his game since the first round, but he's still the outstanding candidate for the test shirt.

Roberts hasn't had an eye catching tournament but has been a key cog in a strong defence and given previous performances and overall ability he's probably still likely to tour.

As mentioned on another thread, Warburton has only started 2 matches including a MOTM performance! Not at his best throughout but harsh listing him here.

Hogg has been very good with ball in hand and has a decent boot, but for me lacks a little under the high ball compared to some of the full backs, and is certainly not as good a tackler as 1/2p. However, I reckon he's very good chance to tour and could be devastaing on hard grounds.

Care: Failed to really shine given his chance to start, although his performance overall (bar the horror kick) wasn't as bad as some are making out (indeed, having finally got round to watching the Italy game, I think the team performance was better than the scoreline indicated - on another day we could easily have run in 3 or 4 tries with a little more coolness. In fact, it was a bit like watching Scotland of the last few seasons in that regard). Definitely slipped back below Youngs in the pecking order, but could still be a viable bench option SH.

Best: Has dropped a bit from being a shoo-in for the Test start to being in competition with Tom Youngs. Still a certain Lion and probable starter, but has regressed a bit.

Roberts: For me, he has definitely lost something in the last couple of years. Maybe it's fitness, maybe a bit of confidence in his off-loading game or maybe its simply that the Wales game plan is making him look entirely one-dimensional.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I reckon Hogg is a good player, especially as an attacking full back. Certainly if we want to play a counter attacking game against the Ozzies he should be the test starter with Halfpenny on the wing.

Agree. He's a strong runner and will get good traction here. I can see him really taking to our tracks.

Visser could get caught out on defence here - it would probably be too Biggar step up for him - but he'd enjoy the speed of the game when in attack and could be a dark horse option. I'd definitely take him for the mid-week games though.

Giving Hogg the moniker "flat track" is not the greatest idea because that's exactly the type of hard fast surface on which he excels and which he'll find in Aus. He came off second best in his "head-to-head" with Halfpenny last weekend, but I'd be very surprised if he doesn't tour.

Care still offers something different to the other contenders. Yes he had a poor game including a horror moment last weekend, but with Philips a shoo in (for the squad) and Youngs a highly likely, I think it's a straight fight between Care and Laidlaw for the last SH berth.

Roberts has not had a good tournament but he has some medical exams on his mind. He does look one paced, but if that can be harnessed then boy it's a destructive one pace. Again, given his previous, I'd be amazed if he doesn't tour.

Best - still the most likely test starter, but a bit unfair to piuck on him as all hooker candidates have had a bad game during this tournament.

I don't rate ROG's chances of being on the tour!

Glas a du wrote:P.S. lost - Heaslip is at 8. It's a visual joke, see?

Tough crowd! ......

Agreed on Heaslip - he's had an extremely disappointing 6 Nations. Other than a few touches against France, he's barely registered any positive contribution of note, and some of his early captaincy decisions (particularly at Murrayfield) have been at best naive.

A shame, but he's playing himself out of contention for a touring spot.

Robshaw
Farrell
Wood
Roberts
Hibbard
LAIDLAW
Visser
Zebo
Murray
Mahoney

Ashton is probably the most over rated Lions contender at the moment. Bet he will still travel though.

Agree on POM, Murray and Farrell too though..

GunsGerms wrote:Ashton is probably the most over rated Lions contender at the moment. Bet he will still travel though.

Agree on POM, Murray and Farrell too though..

I didn't mention Ashton as I don't think anyone outside England actualy thinks he is any good

dragonbreath wrote:
I didn't mention Ashton as I don't think anyone outside England actualy thinks he is any good

Have you not been reading the England threads? Most of us don't rate him at the moment either (more about a complete absence of form than a lack of quality though)

Sorry Ashton, although highly over rated, didn't qualify under the "Lions Contender" heading

Glas a du wrote:Sorry Ashton, although highly over rated, didn't qualify under the "Lions Contender" heading

I don't like it when you post something funnier than me, thank god it s not too often

Phillips - most over rated player

Cost us the second test in SA by not passing and running into contact (Again) 1 meter out when we had 3 men over lap

Slow ball, ends up at bottom of rucks (so a number 8 has to cover his position as scrum half) and generally wastes opportunities by trying to be a big bad flanker

GunsGerms wrote:Ashton is probably the most over rated Lions contender at the moment. Bet he will still travel though.

Agree on POM, Murray and Farrell too though..

Who over rates POM? I haven't heard anyone say anything good about him. All people do is moan about him being in the team. I haven't seen anyone mention him in connection with the Lions.
(except for Jerry Guscett who says he is the most underated player of the 6Ns!)

I agree with Sin here. I can't understand at all the critiscism POM is getting.

(except for Jerry Guscett who says he is the most underated player of the 6Ns!)

That's the prosecution case Your Honour...

I agree, i think Ashton has played himself out of contention..he had the stage to show his skills and has played pisss poor rugby. There are numerous better options

How many yellows has Best actually got this season? I thought it was just one.

He should have had two against Wales.

He's had one yellow card this season against Wales, his last yellow card before that was in 2010 playing for Ulster against the Dragons ..

Not sure that constitutes being a yellow card machine somehow. Still light years ahead of his competition for the Lions 2 shirt.

So in arguing he's not over rated you've just over rated him

I didn't argue he wasn't over rated I argued he wasn't a yellow card machine and proved it I think.....

I don't think he's over rated as nobody in Wales seems to rate him. Everybody else seems to think he is the best 2 at the minute. I think some of the Welsh fans have got a bit carried away with one of the Welsh coaches saying Hibbard is the best hooker in the home nations, which is pretty laughable to me. Thats what I would consider being over rated....

Actually scratch that, the Welsh are saying that Hibbard is the "best hooker in Europe".

You want over rated, look no further than this.....

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2012/12/29/ospreys-star-richard-hibbard-hailed-as-best-hooker-in-europe-91466-32509550/

Artful_Dodger wrote:Actually scratch that, the Welsh are saying that Hibbard is the "best hooker in Europe".

You want over rated, look no further than this.....

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2012/12/29/ospreys-star-richard-hibbard-hailed-as-best-hooker-in-europe-91466-32509550/

i agree that is nuts, it's Hartley

Overrated contenders? all the wingers! none of them have shone even considering how little ball they have got.

Denton - lions certainty to dropped in one tournament

North and Brown have looked good on the wing, though I don't see Brown going with the Lions as anything other than a full back.

Yes think Denton could push Heaslip out of the No8 shirt in this team.

Getting away with it is the point!

I don't know about that, I think you should attack Rory Best (well attack is an overly aggressive choice of words, question) over his performance against Scotland. He was as poor that day as he has been in a while. Then good again against France but Jim Hamilton showed what can happen when a team figures out the calls and gets inside his head.

It just shows how people view things differently. He killed Wales at the breakdown. Killed the ball and killed them, and kept on the right side of the refs interpretation of the law. He's had far from a perfect championship, his throwing has creaked at times, but for me you've highlighted his best feature as the problem and his best performance as proof

I also think it's a team thing really. How you approach the breakdown and it's tailored to the opposition, but more especially tailored to the referee. Best is playing a specific tactical role and Gatland will probably ask whoever is picked at hooker to do something completely different. Throwing is something every hooker has to get right no matter what tactics.

I don't know if Australia have as good a defensive lineout as Scotland, and certainly we'll have more options in terms of lineout forwards but his Lions chances took a hit in Edinburgh for sure.

I think somebody's told him - you're doing really well, if only you could bag some turnovers. Excellent. He has no rep for that so is off the refs radar. He is reaping the rewards, but if refs start debriefing about him that will be very different. Getting away with it is fine as long as it works. And yes, I do know I'm splitting hairs.

Glas a du wrote:I think somebody's told him - you're doing really well, if only you could bag some turnovers. Excellent. He has no rep for that so is off the refs radar. He is reaping the rewards, but if refs start debriefing about him that will be very different. Getting away with it is fine as long as it works. And yes, I do know I'm splitting hairs.

Nah I disagree. It's always been a big part of his game since he came into Ulster. Most turnovers of any forward in the group stages of the Heineken Cup I think. And by and large, legal turnovers.

I dunno whether that'll be useful for the Lions or not as I don't know the refs, and especially the SH-NH difference on this. Best specialises in three things; scrum, breakdown and tackle. He's useful in the tight. We should probably pick him plus a hooker who likes to carry and a hooker who consistently stands out at lineout time.

Him Hibbard and Youngs then.

This is a silly thread, its insulting to players and its antagonistic to the core.

Glas a du wrote:Him Hibbard and Youngs then.

profitius wrote:This is a silly thread, its insulting to players and its antagonistic to the core.

Yes but it antagonises everybody equally, without fear or favour. You get honest responses when you provoke people into defending their favourites negatively, as opposed to eulogising if you seek a positive response.

I've learnt a lot anyway.

I don't know whether scrummages in his sleep is a good thing or a bad thing, just that it probably annoys Mike Ross' significant other.