Dragons players confused...

A freind of mine was chatting with Tom Brown recently who was flabergasted by whats happening there, he was told they couldn't afford him, then signed a back rower who cost more...

Brown thinks he never got a fair crack, and is gutted he couldn't show what he thought was his best form, he also thinks the Dragons are a bit of a mess right now and none of the playing staff have any idea what is going on with the club.

All hearsay I know but worrying from a Dragons fan POV don't you think?!

Not surprising though.

Que Stone Motif and Luckless Pedestrian to come on here and blame it all on the WRU.

LordDowlais wrote:Not surprising though.

Que Stone Moitf and Luckless Pedestrian to come on here and blame it all on the WRU.

Well at least half...

Problem is the club is fundamentally confused, the WRU want to set the parameters, the owners want to be competitive etc...

I'd go as far to say that at least 40% of the playing squad are treading water and not fit for pro rugby (although I don't mean fit as in fitness levels, I mean fit as in not good enough)

Dragons need a clear and concise short, mid and long term plan, but they can't set them due to uncertainties of the WRU, PRGB, HC etc... It's just a case of get a squad together on matchday mornings, see who's there and play the game 1 by 1 almost!!!

I thought it seamed that Dragons were getting thier act together for next year.

They have made some good signings and are linked to others.
I was thinking that next season looked to hold more promise than this one.

What sort of job is Darren Edwards doing at the minute?

Kingshu wrote:I thought it seamed that Dragons were getting thier act together for next year.

They have made some good signings and are linked to others.
I was thinking that next season looked to hold more promise than this one.

What sort of job is Darren Edwards doing at the minute?

Darren Edwards, Job, doing it, sorry I cannot fathom a sentence out of those words.

Happens all the time.

Adam D'arcy was told by Ulster couldnot afford to give him a rise and then signed Jared Payne on mega bucks.

Sounds like Tom Brown needs to do what D'Arcy is doing and leave

I have to say the Dragons team I saw on Friday was the worst team to come to Ravenhill all year.
Most players would not look out of place in the AIB/ Welsh National league.

To take one example a guy starting only his 2nd ever game at TH for Ulster absolutely destroyed the 2 LH's Dragons employer - they were embarressingly bad.

Even Lydiate was poor.
If they play to that standard next year they will be bottom of the league - I fear for their future. They have shipped 20 more tries this year than Zebre

Sean Holley as added his two pence worth and slated the dragons signings:

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/dragons/10354673.Prickly_Holley_rubbishes_Dragons____new_recruits/

SEAN Holley has sensationally slammed the Newport Gwent Dragons’ recruitment policy and trashed their new signings, Kristopher Burton and a “South African and Argentinian no-one has ever heard of."
The respected former Ospreys boss launched a scathing attack on the deals bringing Italy fly- half Burton, 32, Cheetahs lock Martin Muller, 25, and Pumas tighthead prop Francisco Nahuel Tetaz Chaparro, 23, from Stade Français, to Rodney Parade.
Holley has praised the Dragons for bringing in Fijian back-row forward Netani Talei, 30, from Edinburgh, but believes his arrival could hint at the imminent exit of prized asset Toby Faletau, whose contract expires at the end of next season.
He also questioned the wisdom of Treviso’s Burton coming to Wales, with talented Scarlets youngster Owen Williams being allowed to leave the country to join Leicester.
Speaking about Burton, Muller and Chaparro, Holley, who helped coach the Scarlets while Mark Jones assisted Wales during their Six Nations triumph, said: “They’re not household names, are they?
“Kristopher Burton when he plays for Italy is there to drop goals, kick goals and he’s not the bravest in defence – he can’t really run an attacking game.
“It makes you wonder where the Dragons are going with it.
“We’ve got young Owen Williams with the Scarlets who can’t get much rugby and is therefore going to Leicester Tigers.
“Where’s the recruitment policy? Where’s the succession planning?”
On Talei’s signing, Holley said: “He is a fine player. He is a reasonable player at number eight and that probably tells you something, more worryingly, about Toby Faletau and where the future lies there. I don’t know.
“As for Cheetahs and Argentinians no-one has ever heard of, then I’m sorry, surely we’ve got young Welshmen who can come and step into the berth and follow the footsteps of Dan Lydiate, Toby Faletau, someone who has come through the system.”
Holley believes the signings of Burton, Muller and Chaparro also pale when compared with some of the big names who played for the Ospreys when he was at the Liberty Stadium.
He thinks foreign imports coming to Wales should only be high-end players.
“Anyone who knows me, I’m keen on having, like a Viv Richards and a Joel Garner, if you like for a cricket analogy, top, top players if they are overseas that will add value and will play all season, bring something to your culture and environment,” he said.
“I just don’t see it with some of these signings. When you sign like a Filo Tiatia or a Stefan Terblanche, even a Jason Spice, Justin Marshall – they add value – a Xavier Rush, people who add value to your environment, then it makes a difference.
“I don’t know, the proof’s in the pudding, as usual, but I don’t hold out much hope.”

not sure why he uses Owen Williams as an example. Owen's agent didn't inform the scarlets that he'd received an offer from the tigers until he signed for them. that's why the scarlets were so disappointed with the way he departed - not sure what that's got to do with the Dragons. sometimes I feel if a young talented player leaves the country, the dragons unfairly gets blamed.

Most of the set up at the dragons is still run in an amateur way. The blues and ospreys had released info/ taking payments for next seasons tickets around December. The dragons having a very poor season should of released info about season tickets around this time to generate as much interest as possible.

The region has been treading water for a while now and for us fans the frustration is gaining as there appears to be no plans at all in place. The only achievement this season has been financial. The increase of playing budget etc, but we have let our standards slip so far down that it's difficult to now attract any decent players.

I would love to know what the objectives are to make us competitive again but I have a feeling I will always be second guessing.

Also you need to remember that when someone has basically had their marching orders from a job they very rarely make out like it was the best job in the world, and most often they moan about the management structure (too many cheifs not enough indians etc). So Tom Brown saying the Dragons are a shambles is not really a huge shock.

You should have seen Liam Davies' love letter about the Scarlets when he was no longer required, it was something about the region will fold as its ran by muppets or something

Holley is an idiot if he thinks the dragons can go out and buy superstars. It's fine for him to criticise when he had cuddys millions sat behind him to pay for jerry collins etc. And to say they should look around for young welsh talent, well wake up holley most of the dragons players are young welsh kids as out of necessity.

This is the first time I am going to say this. I agree 100% with what Sean Holley is saying. This is the drum I was banging on another thread, also he seems to agree with me on the Burton issue. These players that the regions are signing offer NOTHING to Welsh rugby.

As a Dragons, Blues, and London Welsh fan it's been a pretty disappointing season for me, hopefully the two regions can fix themselves up and become a solid outfit for NGD and a competitive upper tier side for the Blues.

They should get rid of guys like Sidoli instead, looks competely out of sorts.
The few times i have seen Tom Brown he looked great and very powerfull, one of the few players that gave the Dragons some forward momentum.

LordDowlais wrote:This is the first time I am going to say this. I agree 100% with what Sean Holley is saying. This is the drum I was banging on another thread, also he seems to agree with me on the Burton issue. These players that the regions are signing offer NOTHING to Welsh rugby.

And yet you couldn't name any players you think we should have signed instead.

Holley is an utter clown.

Why on earth would we sign another welsh young 10. We have our own. We are desperate for an experienced 10 to help bring them on. We looked at Stephen jones and nicky Robinson but they wouldn't come here. So we bring in Burton - to me it makes sense.

I'm really annoyed about his comments. Like its already been said.. We can't exactly go out and sign world class players can we?

What experience does Burton actually bring ? What has he achieved, he is not re-known for his skill or swashbuckling playing abilities, he is just a steady eddie no. 10 who was not good enough for Australie, and is now not good enough for Italy, but I tell you what, he will do for the Dragons.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:This is the first time I am going to say this. I agree 100% with what Sean Holley is saying. This is the drum I was banging on another thread, also he seems to agree with me on the Burton issue. These players that the regions are signing offer NOTHING to Welsh rugby.

And yet you couldn't name any players you think we should have signed instead.

There is one mentioned on this thread, Tom Brown.

Connacht attracted Craig Clarke
Have Fetu'u Vainikolo, Dan Parks (not everyone cup of tea, but is doing a good job for Connacht, and no longer has international call ups) and fan favourite George Naoupu

Surley Dragons could be competing for signings like these. Richie Rees is a good signing, Holley doesn't mention him. Muller and Chaparro coould be very good players.

Overall I think that Dragons have recuited decent within thier budget, so far. However they could do with a Craig Clarke type signing, just to make us all go , How'd they get him? Someone to give supports a lift and give a bit of hope for next season.

Gavin Henson is going to be free soon, will Dragons be looking at him?

Dowlais, I've been impressed by Tom Brown when he's played for us. Then again, I'm just a fan and I'm sure there's a valid reason that we've let him go.

Kingshu, we could have been competing for the players you mention, for all I know. But you have to ask yourself: if you were a professional rugby player looking to move, would the Dragons be an attractive prospect? We can't force players to come here, and we're not minted either.

Also, it peeves me off when people ask me to name players they should sign from Wales instead. It is not my job to go looking for decent young Welsh talent, but past experiences have proved that the talent is there, the Dragons have pulled numerous rabbits out of the hat in the last few years so the talent is there.

LordDowlais wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:This is the first time I am going to say this. I agree 100% with what Sean Holley is saying. This is the drum I was banging on another thread, also he seems to agree with me on the Burton issue. These players that the regions are signing offer NOTHING to Welsh rugby.

And yet you couldn't name any players you think we should have signed instead.

There is one mentioned on this thread, Tom Brown.

Hmmm, an honest trier or a player who has captained his country at international level...

You come up with any more yet or are you just running your mouth again?

LordDowlais wrote:Also, it peeves me off when people ask me to name players they should sign from Wales instead. It is not my job to go looking for decent young Welsh talent, but past experiences have proved that the talent is there, the Dragons have pulled numerous rabbits out of the hat in the last few years so the talent is there.

Just taking the 6/8 slots for example you mean like academy starlet Ieuan Jones, Dragons captain Lewis Evans, or players who have worked their way up from the Prem like Jevon Groves or Hywel Stoddart? Which one of those are we not utilising exactly? It peeves you because you're making yourself look a tool banging this drum, and rightly so.

LordDowlais wrote:This is the first time I am going to say this. I agree 100% with what Sean Holley is saying. This is the drum I was banging on another thread, also he seems to agree with me on the Burton issue. These players that the regions are signing offer NOTHING to Welsh rugby.

And Holley sums up by saying;
“I don’t know, the proof’s in the pudding, as usual, but I don’t hold out much hope.” In other words he's not sure and appears to know as much as we do on here ie naff all basically.
Also he seems to suggest that the Drags should've signed Owen Williams who is off to Leicester, but maybe like North, Owen wouldn't want to join the Drags even if he was given the choice. Just a thought like and it does make me wonder whether they have enquired about players in the past only to be turned down.

Stone, I cannot discuss anything with a person who will not take any reasonability in an argument and just see that one side is in the wrong and you are always right. Look I am no lover of the hierarchy at the WRU but for you to keep constantly blaming them for your sides lack of ability is just one eyed, thirty to fifty point drubbings were not the norm when Paul Turner was in charge, the way the Dragons are run is a joke, ok the WRU do not help, but if you were in a position to hand out more money would you throw it at the shambles that is the Dragons ? The owners of all our regions have one thing in common, they were all in charge when the game was still more or less amateur, and they think they can still run things that way. You are just blinkered to the fact that it is all everyone else's fault and not that of our regions, if you ask me the regions AND the WRU are all as bad as each other, and until you can see this then your arguments to me on this forum are futile.

Kinda highlights what a great job Turner was doing don't we all think, I only had the pleasure of meeting him once or twice when I started, and he seemed very knowledgable and respected pretty heavily.

He was signing no mark players from the other regions and turning a few into real quality.

I feel for Edwards, his tenure started on a high, but it coincided with Frances money boom, he lost a few of his best players to them and the O's, and from then on in focus'd on youth, the problem with this is that he really does justt coach by numbers from what Ive seen and heard.

From my POV, the Dragons are bottom of the pile, are underfunded, undersupported and offer the least to Welsh rugby, it's time for a game changer, putting out fires and plugging gaps aren't going to change the Dragons fortunes, the first thing I would do is sort the junior system, it isn't showing returns like the other 3 regions have in recent seasons, then work from the top, if your going to spend spen in the right places, trim the squad back as much as humanly possible (more I know!!) spend on a top level coaching team and give them the parameters and budget to the job however they see fit, to try new things and to experiment with a 2 year no quibble contract, or if not revamp the side with the best of the prem.

Pre season the Dragons played a first squad v prem squad, that didn't go well for them at all but they refused to learn lessons.

PS what happened to that hooker of a wrecking ball for Keys, didn't he just sign in England??

In short..saying 'we can't afford you' means 'we don't want you'. Unless you are Sexton - Leinster were honest when they said they couldn't afford him.

They'll get him back though..when he finally decides to come back..................... *evil laugh*

thebluesmancometh wrote:Kinda highlights what a great job Turner was doing don't we all think, I only had the pleasure of meeting him once or twice when I started, and he seemed very knowledgable and respected pretty heavily.

He was signing no mark players from the other regions and turning a few into real quality.

I feel for Edwards, his tenure started on a high, but it coincided with Frances money boom, he lost a few of his best players to them and the O's, and from then on in focus'd on youth, the problem with this is that he really does justt coach by numbers from what Ive seen and heard.

From my POV, the Dragons are bottom of the pile, are underfunded, undersupported and offer the least to Welsh rugby, it's time for a game changer, putting out fires and plugging gaps aren't going to change the Dragons fortunes, the first thing I would do is sort the junior system, it isn't showing returns like the other 3 regions have in recent seasons, then work from the top, if your going to spend spen in the right places, trim the squad back as much as humanly possible (more I know!!) spend on a top level coaching team and give them the parameters and budget to the job however they see fit, to try new things and to experiment with a 2 year no quibble contract, or if not revamp the side with the best of the prem.

Pre season the Dragons played a first squad v prem squad, that didn't go well for them at all but they refused to learn lessons.

PS what happened to that hooker of a wrecking ball for Keys, didn't he just sign in England??

Gerwyn Price, he has signed for Glasgow.

Though gerwyn is back with keys. Although he's been invited back to train with Glasgow this summer.

Price thats it...

Ye he needs a real pre season to see if he can cut it, shame Dragons didn't want to take the shot on him like they did with Burns.

LordDowlais wrote:Stone, I cannot discuss anything with a person who will not take any reasonability in an argument and just see that one side is in the wrong and you are always right.

Except I haven't said anything of the sort. Your argument is that the Dragons should not be signing these players as it is to the detriment of as good or if not better players available in Wales. I have stated the financial issues in another thread which went over the top of your head, on this one I simply took one position as an example (6/8, new signing is Talei in place of Tom Brown). Now leaving aside the fact that Talei is a better player than Brown, who I do rate, I listed four other Welsh players in those positions (leaving out our Team Wales no 8 and Andrew Coombes, who I still believe is a better blindside), one of whom is an academy graduate who has already played 15 times for the Dragons (including a SoG performance away in France), and two of which came up from Cross Keys/Newport. The other player, of course, is a Newport-born Captain of the region who has been on the fringes of the national team

I can do the same for fly half and prop but probably not second row if you like.

I am simply asking you what your point is here. Are we not developing players, is that your claim? Having Tom Brown didn't stop the others getting into the squad and achieving regular game time.

Lord Dowlais wrote:

Look I am no lover of the hierarchy at the WRU but for you to keep constantly blaming them for your sides lack of ability is just one eyed, thirty to fifty point drubbings were not the norm when Paul Turner was in charge, the way the Dragons are run is a joke, ok the WRU do not help, but if you were in a position to hand out more money would you throw it at the shambles that is the Dragons ?

Then was then and now is now, Turner didn't lose all his best players for one reason or another, did he? Again, unless you can accept that the WRu have directly conspired to create market conditions under which it is impossible for the regions to operate, you clearly don't have a grasp of the situation at all. This particularly effects the Dragons, 50% of which the WRU own in a sense. You admit this is the case yourself.

Lord Dowlais wrote: The owners of all our regions have one thing in common, they were all in charge when the game was still more or less amateur, and they think they can still run things that way. You are just blinkered to the fact that it is all everyone else's fault and not that of our regions, if you ask me the regions AND the WRU are all as bad as each other, and until you can see this then your arguments to me on this forum are futile.

You are either illiterate or an apologist for the WRU. You are incapable of answering points, just ranting and raving about the regions like Srumdown after a long night out in Llanelli. On this thread, I have critiqued your posts and asked you to put your money where your mouth is and explain why the Dragons should not have signed Talei. You responded with 'they should be looking in the Premiership', and I named two Prem players who have gone on to become full squad members. If you cannot keep to the thread and the facts then what is the point?

For the record, the Dragons board and Executive have changed significantly in the last few years, they are generating extra revenue and reinvesting in the squad and playing facilities, and are expected to break even this year. By all means cite any examples you can of the region being run in an amateur way if you can and I'll discuss them, but your main one seems to be that we have signed an experienced Italian international to assist the young 10's within the region (that we beat off external competition to retain by the way), after an experienced Welsh international turned us down because the wages on offer in the English Championship are greater.

As I say, I'm all ears - if you can stick to the point.

LordDowlais wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:Kinda highlights what a great job Turner was doing don't we all think, I only had the pleasure of meeting him once or twice when I started, and he seemed very knowledgable and respected pretty heavily.

He was signing no mark players from the other regions and turning a few into real quality.

I feel for Edwards, his tenure started on a high, but it coincided with Frances money boom, he lost a few of his best players to them and the O's, and from then on in focus'd on youth, the problem with this is that he really does justt coach by numbers from what Ive seen and heard.

From my POV, the Dragons are bottom of the pile, are underfunded, undersupported and offer the least to Welsh rugby, it's time for a game changer, putting out fires and plugging gaps aren't going to change the Dragons fortunes, the first thing I would do is sort the junior system, it isn't showing returns like the other 3 regions have in recent seasons, then work from the top, if your going to spend spen in the right places, trim the squad back as much as humanly possible (more I know!!) spend on a top level coaching team and give them the parameters and budget to the job however they see fit, to try new things and to experiment with a 2 year no quibble contract, or if not revamp the side with the best of the prem.

Pre season the Dragons played a first squad v prem squad, that didn't go well for them at all but they refused to learn lessons.

PS what happened to that hooker of a wrecking ball for Keys, didn't he just sign in England??

Gerwyn Price, he has signed for Glasgow.

He signed for a month and was released by Glasgow when they didn't need him. Now playing semi-pro again.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Price thats it...

Ye he needs a real pre season to see if he can cut it, shame Dragons didn't want to take the shot on him like they did with Burns.

Blues looked at him as well and didn't like the look of that wrist, deemed too much of a gamble by the medical staff at two regions so must be iffy.

How dare the Dragons persevere with Welsh Qualified Sam Parry, Huw Gustafson, and Under-20s Hooker Elliot Dee to the detriment of Welsh Rugby. It's a national disgrace that the regions can spend their own money without help from the WRU developing players in this amateur way.

Stone Motif wrote:
......an experienced Welsh international turned us down because the wages on offer in the English Championship are greater.

Blimey. Didn't realise that.
Nicky Robinson yeah?

Ok Stone, where did the Dragons get the foresight to sign a South African and an Argentinian, are they sending their scouts that far afield ? Please do not tell me they are just taking a "PUNT" on these players as they could have done that with Welsh one's from one of our acadamies or any side in the Welsh prem.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:
......an experienced Welsh international turned us down because the wages on offer in the English Championship are greater.

Blimey. Didn't realise that.
Nicky Robinson yeah?

Or King Nicky as he's know down aroun your way (you do the accent)

Stone Motif wrote:
Blues looked at him as well and didn't like the look of that wrist, deemed too much of a gamble by the medical staff at two regions so must be iffy.

Didn't realise that either.

LordDowlais wrote:Ok Stone, where did the Dragons get the foresight to sign a South African and an Argentinian, are they sending their scouts that far afield ? Please do not tell me they are just taking a "PUNT" on these players as they could have done that with Welsh one's from one of our acadamies or any side in the Welsh prem.

Darren is a bloody South African, maybe he saw them hoofing around in the Transvaal on his holidays.

By "PUNT" do you mean like they have done (just in these two positions for example) in Aaron Coundley, Nathan Buck, Owen Evans, Josh Taylor, Phil Price just to name current squad members?

Obviously they have looked at these players, who both have experience of playing at a level of rugby above the Pro 12, and decided they add something to the squad. I'm at a loss to explain why you do not, by all means enlighten me.

LordDowlais wrote:Stone, I cannot discuss anything with a person who will not take any reasonability in an argument and just see that one side is in the wrong and you are always right. Look I am no lover of the hierarchy at the WRU but for you to keep constantly blaming them for your sides lack of ability is just one eyed, thirty to fifty point drubbings were not the norm when Paul Turner was in charge, the way the Dragons are run is a joke, ok the WRU do not help, but if you were in a position to hand out more money would you throw it at the shambles that is the Dragons ? The owners of all our regions have one thing in common, they were all in charge when the game was still more or less amateur, and they think they can still run things that way. You are just blinkered to the fact that it is all everyone else's fault and not that of our regions, if you ask me the regions AND the WRU are all as bad as each other, and until you can see this then your arguments to me on this forum are futile.

This is the bit that cracks me up. Who do you think was on the receiving end of the 30-50 point drubbings? THE CURRENT PLAYERS! Why then would we not look to replace them and get others in who can do a better job, or at least help to push competition up? Where is the logic in saying that replacing Lydiate, Faletau, Brown et al., with semi-pros yet to prove themselves, i.e. 'promote from within', 'give local lads the chance', will help in any way to reduce the 30-50 point drubbings??? Is there a motley crew of grand slam winning standard players kicking about in the Welsh Prem or lower leagues? Highly unlikely. Therefore we need to get in players currently playing in the top flight. Yes, welsh ones would be better, but do they want to come? Name me top flight players in wales at the other regions who we should entice? I could name a huge list. But ask yourself, will they come?

We do well to promote from within - take a look at the 30-50 point drubbing team sheets and you'll see plenty of youngsters given their chance. FFS we capped the two youngest players ever in the last couple of years - Hallam Amos at 17 and then Jack Dixon beat him when I think he was 16! That's verging on child abuse! However, promoting from within is not enough to get results on the pitch. The league table shows you that. We need players in addition to the local youngsters. Players who can challenge them, because let's be honest Jack Dixon and Hallam Amos are not there because they're awesome (yet). They're there because they're the best we have in the squad/region. They've got little or no competition. But they're not ready yet.

Ok, just to make you lot happy I will concede that the regions are doing nothing wrong and it is all the fault of the WRU.

I've got nothing against any of these signings personally, as I see them as all upgrades or additional squad depth.

only thing I question is who identified these players? Edwards & Appleyard? Just that Hazzell stated that he would review his coaching team this summer. If he has any uncertainty of his coaching team. Then it would make more sense to get a new coaching team in 1st, and let them recruit their own players rather one that they inherit off Edwards (that is if Edwards does go)

Just to add - an Ulster poster earlier said that the Dragons props where munched in the scrum by a debutant (or 2nd game to be exact). The props were Coundley and Buck. The replacements were Way and Williams. What are we meant to do? Promote players below them? Surely they'd be worse?!

pioden gorllewin wrote:I've got nothing against any of these signings personally, as I see them as all upgrades or additional squad depth.

only thing I question is who identified these players? Edwards & Appleyard? Just that Hazzell stated that he would review his coaching team this summer. If he has any uncertainty of his coaching team. Then it would make more sense to get a new coaching team in 1st, and let them recruit their own players rather one that they inherit off Edwards (that is if Edwards does go)

And I guess he will have the contact details of Lyn Jones still from when he did his stint there before.

I can kinda see both points of the arguments, the Dragons pack is lightweight, and doesn't give the potential talents such as Evan, Jones, Prydie, Dixon and Evans to show what they can do.

If they have searched their region and south Wales then they already have the best they can afford, and a punt on foreign players who's nations are renowned for their big abbrassive tight 5's isn't the worst idea.

The likes of Buck, Way, Gus, Nimmo, and others just aren't professional standards IMHO, they have been conditioned as far as possible with no results, if the Dragons are getting mullered up front they have 2 options, buy in (with the pennies they can afford) or recruit from the academies.

I don't think there are any real prospects in the acadcemy in the tight 5, or at least none you would want to throw in for a few more seasons minimum.

The issues are if players like Brown are openly commenting about others in the playing squad looking elsewhere, noone knows whats going on and the club is in a bit of a shambles is worrying, and I don't think it's just a case of a bitter former employee, as Ive heard grumblings from other players.

I don't think anyone would claim everything's rosy in the Dave Parade garden.

LordDowlais wrote:Ok, just to make you lot happy I will concede that the regions are doing nothing wrong and it is all the fault of the WRU.

Translation: It's been proved I don't know what I'm talking about, so when presented with facts I am unable to argue against, I'm going to shift goalposts and start banging on about something else.

Stone Motif wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Ok, just to make you lot happy I will concede that the regions are doing nothing wrong and it is all the fault of the WRU.

Translation: It's been proved I don't know what I'm talking about, so when presented with facts I am unable to argue against, I'm going to shift goalposts and start banging on about something else.

thebluesmancometh wrote:I can kinda see both points of the arguments, the Dragons pack is lightweight, and doesn't give the potential talents such as Evan, Jones, Prydie, Dixon and Evans to show what they can do.

If they have searched their region and south Wales then they already have the best they can afford, and a punt on foreign players who's nations are renowned for their big abbrassive tight 5's isn't the worst idea.

The likes of Buck, Way, Gus, Nimmo, and others just aren't professional standards IMHO, they have been conditioned as far as possible with no results, if the Dragons are getting mullered up front they have 2 options, buy in (with the pennies they can afford) or recruit from the academies.

I don't think there are any real prospects in the acadcemy in the tight 5, or at least none you would want to throw in for a few more seasons minimum.

The issues are if players like Brown are openly commenting about others in the playing squad looking elsewhere, noone knows whats going on and the club is in a bit of a shambles is worrying, and I don't think it's just a case of a bitter former employee, as Ive heard grumblings from other players.

I think there's going to be quite a clear out at the Dragons this close season.

LordDowlais wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Ok, just to make you lot happy I will concede that the regions are doing nothing wrong and it is all the fault of the WRU.

Translation: It's been proved I don't know what I'm talking about, so when presented with facts I am unable to argue against, I'm going to shift goalposts and start banging on about something else.

+1

The +1 is for LordDowlais not StoneMotif <personal attack removed>. So I shall go with Lord Dowlais and agree that all the regions are great but none so great as the mighty Dragons and the WRU are the root of all evil despite the fact that they give his region £1.5m to support the 3 (soon 2) Welsh internationals they have and also pay £250k per annum towards an academy that that in 10 years has barely produced a player of note let alone an international. I bow to thee and they greater knowledge.

Cheers Nic, I do not think that the WRU are innocent though, not by a long stretch, but they cannot be blamed for everything that is wrong with the regions.