Dragons players confused...

First topic message reminder :

A freind of mine was chatting with Tom Brown recently who was flabergasted by whats happening there, he was told they couldn't afford him, then signed a back rower who cost more...

Brown thinks he never got a fair crack, and is gutted he couldn't show what he thought was his best form, he also thinks the Dragons are a bit of a mess right now and none of the playing staff have any idea what is going on with the club.

All hearsay I know but worrying from a Dragons fan POV don't you think?!

LordDowlais wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Ok, just to make you lot happy I will concede that the regions are doing nothing wrong and it is all the fault of the WRU.

Translation: It's been proved I don't know what I'm talking about, so when presented with facts I am unable to argue against, I'm going to shift goalposts and start banging on about something else.

So that's your list of players the Dragons should be looking at is it? ? Well done, bet that took you all lunch time to think up.

LordDowlais wrote:Cheers Nic, I do not think that the WRU are innocent though, not by a long stretch, but they cannot be blamed for everything that is wrong with the regions.

They can because if the WRU hadn't have been formed then there would be no rugby, therefore they are responsible for everything. Although thinking about it don't get me started on that Webb Ellis chap.

Stone Motif wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Ok, just to make you lot happy I will concede that the regions are doing nothing wrong and it is all the fault of the WRU.

Translation: It's been proved I don't know what I'm talking about, so when presented with facts I am unable to argue against, I'm going to shift goalposts and start banging on about something else.

So that's your list of players the Dragons should be looking at is it? ? Well done, bet that took you all lunch time to think up.

Stone, it is not my job to go scouting around Wales for decent players, there are people employed at the Dragons to do that, oh hang on, they just go on holiday and hope to see somebody in South Africa. On a serious note though, I asked you on another thread, what the players I listed brought to Welsh rugby and you declined to answer me on that one.

LordDowlais wrote:Stone, it is not my job to go scouting around Wales for decent players, there are people employed at the Dragons to do that, oh hang on, they just go on holiday and hope to see somebody in South Africa.

Yes, that's why I can name 3 or 4 young Welsh players in the Dragons squad in each position we have signed a new foreign player, bar lock, as I've stated, where we have two old Welsh qualified warhorses and a current Welsh international. So, no problem there then, correct?

Lord Dowlais wrote: On a serious note though, I asked you on another thread, what the players I listed brought to Welsh rugby and you declined to answer me on that one.

No I didn't, I simply stated they were affordable, and that that was enough. I could have added that they are experienced, available year-round, and arguably better in each case than the incumbent in the squad, but being as I can't put it in crayon on t'internet I doubt very much you'll get it this time either.

So you are saying Campese Ma'aufu who has played about a dozen times for the Blues this season is all what you have said above ? Can you please cayon your justifycation of playes of that ilk swelling up our squads.

Can you say that he is not?

I take it you agree the players signed by the Dragons are given the latest goalpost-shifting?

Stone Motif wrote:Can you say that he is not?

I take it you agree the players signed by the Dragons are given the latest goalpost-shifting?

WTF are you on about ? I am talking about all our regions and the crap they sign, you have just taken it upon yourself to take it as a personal attack at the Dragons, you need to take the chip off your shoulder. By the way, I still think signing Burton is ridiculous. He is rubbish, that is why he went to Italy, and that is why the Italian club he was contracted to let him go.

LordDowlais wrote:What experience does Burton actually bring ? What has he achieved, he is not re-known for his skill or swashbuckling playing abilities, he is just a steady eddie no. 10 who was not good enough for Australie, and is now not good enough for Italy, but I tell you what, he will do for the Dragons.

Dragons got Kris Burton?

Thats a good signing for them. He'll get them playing in the right areas of the park and kick his goals.

Notch wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:What experience does Burton actually bring ? What has he achieved, he is not re-known for his skill or swashbuckling playing abilities, he is just a steady eddie no. 10 who was not good enough for Australie, and is now not good enough for Italy, but I tell you what, he will do for the Dragons.

Dragons got Kris Burton?

Thats a good signing for them. He'll get them playing in the right areas of the park and kick his goals.

They could have signed Ceri Sweeney to do that.

LordDowlais wrote:

Notch wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:What experience does Burton actually bring ? What has he achieved, he is not re-known for his skill or swashbuckling playing abilities, he is just a steady eddie no. 10 who was not good enough for Australie, and is now not good enough for Italy, but I tell you what, he will do for the Dragons.

Dragons got Kris Burton?

Thats a good signing for them. He'll get them playing in the right areas of the park and kick his goals.

They could have signed Ceri Sweeney to do that.

Assuming that he would want to go back to the Drags, but I doubt it somehow and I what are Exeter going to pay him?

Lord Straw-Clutcher wrote:
WTF are you on about ? I am talking about all our regions and the crap they sign, you have just taken it upon yourself to take it as a personal attack at the Dragons, you need to take the chip off your shoulder. By the way, I still think signing Burton is ridiculous. He is rubbish, that is why he went to Italy, and that is why the Italian club he was contracted to let him go.

Yes massive chip on my shoulder - the temerity of it, commenting on the Dragons in a thread entitled 'Dragons Players Confused'. You are entitled to your opinion on Burton as ever. I have agreed elsewhere he is someway short of international level but is a proven operator at the level we need to be concentrating on (the league). We also have only one out-and-out ten in the whole squad, you know, the flaky young WQ one we fought off English interest to retain but is clearly in need of an old hand to guide him.

So average squad player doesn't get offered a new contract & he slags off his former employer - Well there's a surprise.
People who know absolutely nothing about the Dragons come on here & post rubbish - Well there's a surprise

Stone, you seriously have a problem, but I'll tell you what, you just keep on blaming the WRU for the short comings of your region, I will admit that the WRU are far from squeaky clean and perhaps they could do more and Roger Lewis is a bit of a merchant banker, but it is not the fault of the WRU that the Dragons are having thirty to fifty point tunings week in week out. You go on about the WRU not letting the Dragons operate as a proper business but if you ask me without the WRU the Dragons would cease to exist, if it were up to the Dragons to sell their own t.v rights and the what not you would be gone by next christmas. You have to admit that the owners of ALL FOUR REGIONS are as much to blame as the WRU are themselves, you cannot keep finger pointing without looking at your problems within, the WRU did not appoint the coaches at your region ans the WRU did not pick the players you have either, also the WRU are not the reason why you are not making money, perhaps a region in Gwent was a bad idea from the start.

Perhaps they should have based a region in Merthyr - That would have been good wouldn't it?

LordDowlais wrote:Stone, you seriously have a problem, but I'll tell you what, you just keep on blaming the WRU for the short comings of your region, I will admit that the WRU are far from squeaky clean and perhaps they could do more and Roger Lewis is a bit of a merchant banker, but it is not the fault of the WRU that the Dragons are having thirty to fifty point tunings week in week out.

WTF? You made a post about a player and I responded - about a player. Where did I mention the WRU? You've just gone off in a cretinous rant there haven't you?

Lord Dowlais wrote: You go on about the WRU not letting the Dragons operate as a proper business but if you ask me without the WRU the Dragons would cease to exist, if it were up to the Dragons to sell their own t.v rights and the what not you would be gone by next christmas.

We're all but self funding, reportedly at a slight profit, you took. Yet the board who have accomplished this with the worst team in Europe can't sell tv rights? What's the weather like on your planet? The WRU give us nothing so if they walked away we'd lose nothing.

Lord Dowlais wrote: You have to admit that the owners of ALL FOUR REGIONS are as much to blame as the WRU are themselves,

why? Please provide some evidence if you can? Or are you just spouting second hand dog's business from the Western Fail?

Lord Dowlais wrote: you cannot keep finger pointing without looking at your problems within, the WRU did not appoint the coaches at your region ans the WRU did not pick the players you have either,

Don't they? It's been reported in the press numerous times the Dragons seeking approval over shinings, let alone the terms of the PA. Nonsense remark.

Lord Dowlais wrote: also the WRU are not the reason why you are not making money, perhaps a region in Gwent was a bad idea from the start.

Who said we aren't making money? We've just rented our ground out for ten years and built a well-used conference centre. We need to make more, and that involves the WRU relinquishing the stranglehold they have on the regions in general and the 50 per cent ownership they leave rot in relation to the Dragons in particular.

I've always liked brown when he has played, but that has been the issue. Is second choice to faletau, and when he should be playing he has been injured. It's rare that anyone is left go from a job and has great things to say about their employer!!

dragon999 wrote:Perhaps they should have based a region in Merthyr - That would have been good wouldn't it?

And what is that supposed to mean ?

Stone, I am banging my head against a brick wall with you, as far as your concerned it is everbody else's fault and not you. The regions have not done anything wrong what so ever and the big bad WRU are robbing you all blind. You do realise that if this was the case the regions would have the WRU over a barrel. Look, if each region were to negotiate their own t.v rights who in the hell would ant to buy the Dragons games ? You do realise that the other regions are probably losing out as they have to subsidise you lot because lets be honest, who is going to pay for the t.v rights for a side that are getting their arses shown to them week in week out. I am not defending the WRU not by a long shot, but your one eyed, self indulgent points of view on here are just irritable, you then go on to disect my post and pick out the bits that you can use to strenthen what you would have us all believe, remind me though, why did the WRU have to buy fifty percent of your region in the first place ?

Because the chuckle brothers couldn't afford their share - they wanted to call the shots & have Tony Brown pay for it

LordDowlais wrote:Stone, I am banging my head against a brick wall with you, as far as your concerned it is everbody else's fault and not you.

By all means, quote where I have said this then.

LordDowlais wrote: The regions have not done anything wrong what so ever and the big bad WRU are robbing you all blind. You do realise that if this was the case the regions would have the WRU over a barrel.

Er, yes - this is one of those 'facts' I was talking about.

LordDowlais wrote:Look, if each region were to negotiate their own t.v rights who in the hell would ant to buy the Dragons games ? You do realise that the other regions are probably losing out as they have to subsidise you lot because lets be honest, who is going to pay for the t.v rights for a side that are getting their arses shown to them week in week out.

Somebody pays for it now? It would be a collective settlement between RRW and the league ideally. Even more ideally, with Sky or BT for an improved Anglo-Welsh competition post-HC. You can be the Poopie team on the planet if you are selling sponsorships to a decent tv audience. Who knows, with a decent media rights settlement in lieu of any union support we might actually get somewhere.

LordSpanglyCowboyHat wrote:
I am not defending the WRU not by a long shot,

Oh yes you are

LordDowlais wrote:
but your factually-based, well-argued points of view on here are just irritable, because I can't think of anything sensible to say in response

Fixed

LordDowlais wrote: you then go on to disect my post and pick out the bits that you can use to strenthen what you would have us all believe,

Those pesky facts again eh? By all means, show me some evidence I'm incorrect. At the end of the day you can believe what you want, I'm just a well-intentioned soul who is trying to set you on the path to enlightenment.

LordDowlias wrote: remind me though, why did the WRU have to buy fifty percent of your region in the first place ?

You tell me Lord D, you're the expert on the running of the Dragons, why did the WRUin 'buy' the 50% share? Why are they keeping hold of it? Quite a lot of people would like to know that as it goes. If you can shed some light on that you never know you might actually contribute something to this thread?

LordDowlais wrote:Perhaps a region in Gwent was a bad idea from the start.

You're right, it was a ridiculous idea. No one plays rugby in Gwent:

http://www.newportgwentdragons.com/ClubDirectory

'District A contains 47 clubs in the east of Wales – the biggest in the country – and it was agreed at a meeting last week to express their concerns to the chief executive.'

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/rugby/latest/10190315.Gwent_clubs_rise_up_to_express_discontent_over_state_of_Welsh_rugby/

Does the WRU own RGC1404?

If so and they own 50% of Dragons, do people see it as WRU looking to buy the other 50% of Dragons that way they will have complete control over 2 regions, and have 2/3 more as private regions?

Stone the reason why the WRU has 50% of your region is because, your region was in massive debt after Ebbw Vale pulled and the only way out was for the WRU to come along and purchase half of your region so that you would not go to the wall. So the big administrative bully who you are for ever condemning actually has done more for your region than you would like to admit.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Dragons+call+on+WRU+to+back+debt-ridden+region's+survival+bid.-a0110133926

Kingshu wrote:Does the WRU own RGC1404?

If so and they own 50% of Dragons, do people see it as WRU looking to buy the other 50% of Dragons that way they will have complete control over 2 regions, and have 2/3 more as private regions?

No, they've had the 50% share in the Dragons for years, since Ebbw Vale pulled out of their half of the 'merger' I guess (2004). If they'd wanted to buy up the other half they would have done it by now. Plus, I doubt they'd want to incur the running costs!

LordDowlais wrote:Stone the reason why the WRU has 50% of your region is because, your region was in massive debt after Ebbw Vale pulled and the only way out was for the WRU to come along and purchase half of your region so that you would not go to the wall. So the big administrative bully who you are for ever condemning actually has done more for your region than you would like to admit.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Dragons+call+on+WRU+to+back+debt-ridden+region's+survival+bid.-a0110133926

Lord, it was not because of no other buyer though. Tony Brown wanted to buy up the other 50%, but after the Celtic Warriors debacle the WRU stipulated that there were to be no single owners. Therefore, with no-one else showing interest in coming in, the WRU did. Essentially they didn't allow us to buy the other half, bought it themselves, and have sat on it for 8 years.

Griff wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Stone the reason why the WRU has 50% of your region is because, your region was in massive debt after Ebbw Vale pulled and the only way out was for the WRU to come along and purchase half of your region so that you would not go to the wall. So the big administrative bully who you are for ever condemning actually has done more for your region than you would like to admit.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Dragons+call+on+WRU+to+back+debt-ridden+region's+survival+bid.-a0110133926

Lord, it was not because of no other buyer though. Tony Brown wanted to buy up the other 50%, but after the Celtic Warriors debacle the WRU stipulated that there were to be no single owners. Therefore, with no-one else showing interest in coming in, the WRU did. Essentially they didn't allow us to buy the other half, bought it themselves, and have sat on it for 8 years.

After forcing an unworkable merger in the first place...

I dont see how saving a once great club from extinction can be seen as a bad move.

Allty wrote:I dont see how saving a once great club from extinction can be seen as a bad move.

It isnt. I was actually very glad that the Newport Gwent Dragons did not go to the wall, the more pro rugby in Wales, the better.

To be fair though the other clubs in Gwent have had over 10 years to save plan or borrow to purchase the 50% from the WRU.

You may say they are poor but 10 years is more than enough time for Newport push the idea (or even help organise) that the other clubs band together and put together a plan to purchase the other 50% from the WRU.

Because this hasn't happened within 10 years the only conclusion is that Newport and the other clubs in Gwent are happy with the WRU owning 50% of the Dragons, even if the fans are not. And that the other clubs in Gwent are happy with Newports running of the region. Because if they weren't they've had the option to purchase the WRU's share to have greater input, for 10 years, yet haven't put together any sort od plan to become involved.

Allty wrote:I dont see how saving a once great club from extinction can be seen as a bad move.

They didn't save the club (Newport RFC), they saved the region from being stillborn - pushing midwife Tony Brown out of the way because they didn't want him to do it.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Allty wrote:I dont see how saving a once great club from extinction can be seen as a bad move.

They didn't save the club (Newport RFC), they saved the region from being stillborn - pushing midwife Tony Brown out of the way because they didn't want him to do it.

Sorry LP in the eyes of many Cardiff Newport and Llanelli remain as clubs.

They do remain as clubs. They play in the Principality premiership.

Oh no, there is a new argument developing on this thread now. I'm out.

LordDowlais wrote:Oh no, there is a new argument developing on this thread now. I'm out.

Very wise LD

LordDowlais wrote:Oh no, there is a new argument developing on this thread now. I'm out.

Been raging for years hasn't it? Must be its hundred and eleventh birthday soon.

Allty wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Allty wrote:I dont see how saving a once great club from extinction can be seen as a bad move.

They didn't save the club (Newport RFC), they saved the region from being stillborn - pushing midwife Tony Brown out of the way because they didn't want him to do it.

Sorry LP in the eyes of many Cardiff Newport and Llanelli remain as clubs.

Sssshh mun.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Allty wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Allty wrote:I dont see how saving a once great club from extinction can be seen as a bad move.

They didn't save the club (Newport RFC), they saved the region from being stillborn - pushing midwife Tony Brown out of the way because they didn't want him to do it.

Sorry LP in the eyes of many Cardiff Newport and Llanelli remain as clubs.

Sssshh mun.

OK CD I'll keep very quiet about the clubs and things

Kingshu wrote:What sort of job is Darren Edwards doing at the minute?

A bad one I have to be honest, most of these Dragons players are ones hes signed, and nearly all of them have been bloody awful.

Shifty wrote:

Kingshu wrote:What sort of job is Darren Edwards doing at the minute?

A bad one I have to be honest, most of these Dragons players are ones hes signed, and nearly all of them have been bloody awful.

Any of 'em Welsh?

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Shifty wrote:

Kingshu wrote:What sort of job is Darren Edwards doing at the minute?

A bad one I have to be honest, most of these Dragons players are ones hes signed, and nearly all of them have been bloody awful.

Any of 'em Welsh?

The Welsh one's are Tom Prydie and Dan Evans. The others, off the top of my head Chavanga, Tuilagi, Nimmo i cannot think of any others, then there has been a few he has brought through the academy like Allen Amos and Lewis Evans. To be honest his signings are not awful, they just offer bugger all, it's his tactics and team spirit that's the issue, Paul Turner had his players tackling like men possessed and it looked as though they would die for their region, now though, it just looks as though they cannot wait to get to the club house.

Oh and Mike Poole and Coombes.

It's Hallam Amos - Are you saying that Edwards signed Mike Poole & Andrew Coombes?

dragon999 wrote:It's Hallam Amos - Are you saying that Edwards signed Mike Poole & Andrew Coombes?

Didn't he ?

No, both came through from Newport RFC

doctornickolas wrote:towards an academy that that in 10 years has barely produced a player of note let alone an international. I bow to thee and they greater knowledge.

I don't get why you and other supporters of other regions use this stick to beat us with all the time. There's always been a bit of anti Dragon in Gatland's thinking. Even players like Faletau, Lydiate and Coombs were stumbled across by accident, as Lydiate and Faletau should really have been capped sooner and Coombs was a pure last resort pick. It also isn't really our fault if players choose to follow the "culture" in France after they've been capped whilst they were with us or are forced to retire early (like Burner). Care to explain how a player like Jon Evans can play well enough all season and more importantly, outplay the current incumbent of the Welsh 9 shirt at least once doesn't get a look in? How players like Turnbull and McCusker warrant constant selection over Lewis Evans? For an academy that is doing pretty gash, we seem to have a few players in the U18s and 20s squads nowadays.

I would be disappointed if Tom Brown was saying this, but you can bet your bottom dollar if he was offered a contract with us in the summer, he'd snap the Dragons hand off. That's why any sane person would dismiss it as bitter ramblings.

I did like the way that we played under Turner, but I honestly think I would credit Charvis for our dog more than Turner. Appleyard is a joke. I'd liken it to a bloke in the military who thinks he's the mutts nuts, but when they're barking at you, you either try stifling your laughter or completely switch off.

dragon999 wrote:No, both came through from Newport RFC

Yes, but he gave them their chances.

Risca Rev wrote:

doctornickolas wrote:towards an academy that that in 10 years has barely produced a player of note let alone an international. I bow to thee and they greater knowledge.

I don't get why you and other supporters of other regions use this stick to beat us with all the time. There's always been a bit of anti Dragon in Gatland's thinking. Even players like Faletau, Lydiate and Coombs were stumbled across by accident, as Lydiate and Faletau should really have been capped sooner and Coombs was a pure last resort pick. It also isn't really our fault if players choose to follow the "culture" in France after they've been capped whilst they were with us or are forced to retire early (like Burner). Care to explain how a player like Jon Evans can play well enough all season and more importantly, outplay the current incumbent of the Welsh 9 shirt at least once doesn't get a look in? How players like Turnbull and McCusker warrant constant selection over Lewis Evans? For an academy that is doing pretty gash, we seem to have a few players in the U18s and 20s squads nowadays.

I would be disappointed if Tom Brown was saying this, but you can bet your bottom dollar if he was offered a contract with us in the summer, he'd snap the Dragons hand off. That's why any sane person would dismiss it as bitter ramblings.

I did like the way that we played under Turner, but I honestly think I would credit Charvis for our dog more than Turner. Appleyard is a joke. I'd liken it to a bloke in the military who thinks he's the mutts nuts, but when they're barking at you, you either try stifling your laughter or completely switch off.

I agree I am a big fan of Lewis Evans.

I was a big fan of Lewis Evans, he produced some real quality first half of the season, but fell apart after not making the Wales squad (how he didn't make it I do not know!!!)

He has this tendancy when describing players in his junior teams he coaches, or even other pro's to mention their psych state, 'their heads gone' 'his heads not in it' 'he isn't thinking straight' I got the feeling that he was subconsciously talking about his own perceived mental weakness.

Anyway since the rejection from Wales he has been lacklustre, lacking motivation and darn right awfull at times. He just doesn't get stuck in or off the floor as quick as he was first half of the season.

I agree about Jon Evans too, but said the same about Wayne when he was on form, they both do great jobs behind a constantly beaten pack. Rees isn't that great a signing in reality, but he is experienced and will help the others come on.

To be fair to him, he doesn't have to scrap on the floor so much now, as Cudd is doing everything. I wouldn't be surprised if his head is a bit gone after our season and the fact he's a captain, but a quick fix for that is Coombs for captain next season and let him just play.

Got to feel for Lewis Evans. I think he's been outstanding for the past two seasons. He plays his heart out and plays exceptionally might I add, only to end up seeing names like Turnbull, McCusker, Pretorious on the autumn and 6N squad sheets. I guess there is only so much he can take. He'll probably be good again at the beginning of next season.