England v Barbarians, 26 May

First topic message reminder :

England v Barbarians
26 May 2013
Kick off: 13:00 local
Twickenham Stadium

Match officials to be announced.

Might get a thread started about this now that the full Ba-bas squad has been announced.

1. Teams:
Barbarians:
Elliot Daly
Takudzwa Ngwenya
Casey Laulala
Mike Tindall (captain)
Timoci Nagusa
James Hook
Dwayne Peel
Andrea Lo Cicero
Matthew Rees
James Johnston
Jim Hamilton
Marco Wentzel
Alessandro Zanni
Jonathan Poff
Imanol Harinordoquy

Replacements:
Schalk Brits
Duncan Jones
Paul James
Dean Mumm
Sam Jones
Dimitri Yachvili
Nick Evans
Rowan Varty

England
15. Mike Brown (Harlequins)
14. Christian Wade (Wasps)
13. Jonathan Joseph (London Irish)
12. Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby)
11. Marland Yarde (London Irish)
10. Freddie Burns (Gloucester Rugby)
9. Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens)
1. Alex Corbisiero (London Irish)
2. Rob Webber (Bath Rugby, captain)
3. David Wilson (Bath Rugby)
4. Joe Launchbury (London Wasps)
5. Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby)
6. Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs)
7. Matt Kvesic (Worcester Warriors)
8. Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby)

Replacements
16. David Paice (London Irish)
17. Joe Marler (Harlequins)
18. Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks)
19. Kearnan Myall (Unattached)
20. Billy Vunipola (London Wasps)
21. Haydn Thomas (Exeter Chiefs)
22. Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby)
23. Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby)

2. England squad

Forwards

Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby), Rob Buchanan (Harlequins), Alex Corbisiero (London Irish), Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs), Matt Kvesic (Worcester Warriors), Joe Launchbury (London Wasps), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby), Kearnan Myall (Sale Sharks), David Paice (London Irish), Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks), Billy Vunipola (London Wasps), Rob Webber (Bath Rugby), David Wilson (Bath Rugby).

Backs

Mike Brown (Harlequins), Freddie Burns (Gloucester Rugby), Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby), Jonathan Joseph (London Irish), Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby), David Strettle (Saracens), Haydn Thomas (Exeter Chiefs), Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby), Christian Wade (London Wasps), Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens), Marland Yarde (London Irish).

3. Barbarians squad

Backs

Jared Payne (Ulster), Rowan Varty (DeA Tigers & Hong Kong), Takudzwa Ngwenya (Biarritz Olympique & USA), Timoci Nagusa (Montpellier & Fiji), Joe Rokocoko (Bayonne & New Zealand), Elliot Daly (London Wasps), James Hook (Perpignan & Wales), Nick Evans (Harlequins & New Zealand), Kahn Fotuali'i (Ospreys & Samoa), Dwayne Peel (Sale Sharks & Wales), Dimitri Yachvili (Biarritz Olympique & France).

Forwards

Duncan Jones (Ospreys & Wales), BJ Botha (Munster & South Africa), Paul James (Bath Rugby & Wales), Martin Castrogiovanni (Leicester & Italy), Andrea Lo Cicero (Racing Metro 92 & Italy), Matthew Rees (Scarlets & Wales), Leonardo Ghiraldini (Benetton Treviso & Italy), Schalk Brits (Saracens & South Africa), Marco Wentzel (London Wasps & South Africa), Jim Hamilton (Gloucester Rugby & Scotland), Dean Mumm (Exeter Chiefs & Australia), Samu Manoa (Northampton & USA), Francois Louw (Bath Rugby & South Africa), Sam Jones (London Wasps), Alessandro Zanni (Benetton Treviso & Italy), Sergio Parisse (Stade Francais & Italy), Imanol Harinordoquy (Biarritz Olympique & France).

I can understand what you mean, but to be fair to Kearnan Myall he has had a very good season too. He has been one of Sale's few bright spots and I reckon he will show up very well for Wasps next season. I could see him having a delayed tilt at full England honours too a la Geoff Parling. (although he is a better carrier than Parling from what I remember.)

Myall. Really? Well his line-out work can't be disputed but I can't see what he offers over and above Robson in that regard. If you're going to pick a line-out option why not just stick to Robson given that he's already in the Saxons squad?

Haydn Thomas is a good, quick SH and offers something a bit different to Wigg or Dickson. If he comes on and has a stormer I could see him going on tour. He is not young mind.

Ok I'm sold on the idea

Oh dear, just seen the news. Goode could probably have done with a rest anyway but it's a shame to see Tomkins miss out.

I can understand the Myler point not that I think George Ford will like it much but he needs a full pre-season with a new club. Myler brings some experience and frankly who else is there to go?

Burrell puzzles me greatly. I take it Eastmond is now the 13 which is absolutely fine by me. Joseph has been a bit out of sorts this season so far not helped by injury.

I just don't think Burrell has done enough and if it's an OC you want to replace I would say Lowe and Trinder can count themselves very unlucky.

Banahan must be completely off the radar now.
Does lancs see daly as just a fullback now and not a centre?

Could have been worse, Gaskell could have been called up...

So we have the pretty out of sorts Joseph as the only true 13 in the squad now then? Brilliant.

I really don't know if Burrell has enough about him yet to trouble Int sides, and as mentioned he's a 12 where we have a couple of other players already.

My issue with Burrell is that he is too similar style of player to Tuilagi. Could you imagine the two of them playing together? The outside backs might as well set up deck chairs and relax (when we are attacking at least).

OP updated to reflect Elliot Daly's inclusion in the Babas and England's strange additions.

Myler isn't a bad addition, I think it makes sense given the lack of 10s. But why not Trinder/Lowe to replace Tomkins?!

I'm really dissapointed that Tompkins isnt going! I think he was in most peoples starting team (even for the BaaBaa's).

Perhaps now we a likely to see the Twelvetrees-Eastmond combination or the Twelvetrees-Joseph link up. I'd be happy with both to be honest.
Again, its a shame that Daly didnt get the call.

Goode out is no bad thing - rest and a full pre-season will do him good.
Great that its now a straight dog fight for the 15 shirt between Foden and Brown. (hopefully Brown gets that shirt).

Myler is solid backup for Burns - well deserved, may feature off the bench or start against the Montevideo combo side.

Burrell in there to get exposure to the setup - He's had a solid season so deserves recognition. I'm looking forward to seeing how he does in the Final. If he has a really good game he could force his way into the test side somewhere.

He has this reputation for being a bit of a bosh player, a la JTH - but I think he's got a bit more to his game than that. We shall see.

Damn shame about Tomkins, but I'm really not down and out about Goode. Like people have said, now it's a shoot-out between Brown and Foden, who are the only two I think should be competing for it at the moment anyway.

I'd like to see Twelvetrees and Joseph in the centres to be honest, with Eastmond on the bench covering wing and centre.

Id put money on it being

11 Foden
14 Wade / May
15 Brown

So with Hayden Thomas and Myall in the squad for cover we could see something like this -

Corbis, Webber, Wilson
Attwood, Launchbury
Johnston, Kvesik, Morgan
Wigglesworth
Burns
Foden
Twelvetrees
Joseph
Wade
Brown

Bench-
Marler, Buchanan, Thomas, Hayden-Thomas,Myall, Eastmond, May


Guys not used would be -
Strettle, Yarde, Pace, B.Vaunipola,

I would love Billy Vaunipola to be in there but Myall may get the nod on bench as he covers the 2nd row too.

Id be delighted to see that team take the pitch on Sunday. Physical pack with attacking backs....a refreshing change from the current England 1st team...

I still think though that Lancs has realised that he needs a bit more muscle in the pack...that athletic is essential but so is a mix with power and bulk.

Foden won't be in it though. Premiership final this weekend.

More than anyone else on this tour, I am looking forward to getting a glimpse of Kvesic in an England senior shirt.

I really think if he can bring his carrying game to the international scene, we could uncover a real gem.

I'm very pleased to see Hayden Thomas get a call up, he is precisely the sort of hard working player who deserves to be rewarded.

Could be a really interesting tour this one...

I want to see how Kvesic goes as an "out and out 7". How is his break down work compared to the much maligned "non out and out 7" Chris Robshaw.

thomh wrote:Foden won't be in it though. Premiership final this weekend.

woops, well spotted - May or Strettle will get drafted in then.

Well Strettle has not been the player i thought he was going to be...however if this team can get him some decent ball then he could be very dangerous...likewise May.

GeordieFalcon wrote:I want to see how Kvesic goes as an "out and out 7". How is his break down work compared to the much maligned "non out and out 7" Chris Robshaw.

The out and out 7 going on an 8....

Yeah he has played 8 aswell so i guess unfair to call him an out and out 7...but him fraser and wallace are those touted as the real deal 7's...as opposed to Robshaw who didnt make the lions trip due to not being a proper 7 apparently...
So ill be really interested to see how he goes. If he happens to be a real 7 with the added bonus of good carrying then all the better....

yappysnap wrote:Could have been worse, Gaskell could have been called up...

Him and Clarke in the backrow... shudder...

Barbarians by 20.

Bathman_in_London wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Could have been worse, Gaskell could have been called up...

Him and Clarke in the backrow... shudder...

Calum clarke? you may not like him re the hawkins incident but he has the potential to be a good player in my opinion.

I havent seen much sign of potential mind HQ...and i would have him way behind Robshaw, Kevsic, Fraser and Wallace for that 7 shirt.

I think lancaster will almost certainly select strettle to start and he probably deserves it with his end of season form. Looking forward to may and wade getting some game time though!

The rest of the team really picks its self from that squad, shame there is quite so many missing, makes england as much of a scratch side as the baba's.

agreed geordie, id have him behind all those players as he hasnt played enough rugby. But whenever I have seen him he just seems to have a little bit of everything about his game but particularly his tight work, this is what i think lancaster see's in him.

England losing to the Barbarians would be a good thing to witness on my birthday

I see you're back Gareth.

The Saint wrote:England losing to the Barbarians would be a good thing to witness on my birthday

Then may I wish you a happy birthday

propdavid_london wrote:So with Hayden Thomas and Myall in the squad for cover we could see something like this -

Corbis, Webber, Wilson
Attwood, Launchbury
Johnston, Kvesik, Morgan
Wigglesworth
Burns
Foden
Twelvetrees
Joseph
Wade
Brown

Bench-
Marler, Buchanan, Thomas, Hayden-Thomas,Myall, Eastmond, May


Guys not used would be -
Strettle, Yarde, Pace, B.Vaunipola,

I would love Billy Vaunipola to be in there but Myall may get the nod on bench as he covers the 2nd row too.

It's an 8 man bench these days PD so I would fully expect to see Billy V in there as BR cover.

I think one of Lancaster's priorities in these games is bring on competition at number 8 following the dearth of serious talent there if Morgan's not available. I think at the very leat B Vunipola will make the bench and wouldn't be surprised at all if he started.

To be fair his priorities are:

Find an attack
Find some serious muscle / bulk not just "athletic willows"...
Find some ball carrying
Continue improvement at the breakdown
Find a FH who can pass and run with the ball
Pick players in their correct positions
etc etc

Welsh front row to smash England again, no Walsh as an 'excuse' this time either

Geordie - you've co-incidentally just described Edinburgh's problems this season in one horrible, horrible nutshell.

Don't think I see it quite as bad as you do Geordie! A lot of good stuff has come since Lancaster took over. One of the things I think thats held him back is his reluctance to throw too many people in to an already inexperienced side during the 6N. Things would have looked a lot better had Morgan made it through 5 games or Vunipola not got injured pre France.

That Baabaa side could have been a lot worse for England, though the addition of Laulala and Brits makes it better. Reckon tehy aren't starting their best players in almost every position, though it's still tasty and could still turn us over

Barbarians team:

Elliot Daly (London Wasps), Taku Ngwenya (Biarritz), Casey Laulala (Munster), Mike Tindall (Gloucester, captain), Timoci Nagusa (Montpellier), James Hook (Perpignan), Dwayne Peel (Sale Sharks); Andrea Lo Cicero (Racing Metro), Matthew Rees (Scarlets), James Johnston (Harlequins), Jim Hamilton (Gloucester), Marco Wentzel (Wasps), Alessandro Zanni (Treviso), Jonathan Poff (Wasps), Imanol Harinordoquay (Biarritz)

Bench: Schalk Brits (Saracens), Paul James (Bath Rugby), Duncan Jones (Ospreys), Dean Mumm (Exeter Chiefs), Sam Jones (Wasps), Dimitri Yachvili (Biarritz), Stephen Jones (Wasps), Rowan Varty (DeA Tigers)

OP updated. Lovely moment for Jon Poff, ex-Crusader.

It'll be a good test for this young England squad...still think Elliot Daly should be in the opposite squad though..

I agree that if we'd had Vunipola or Morgan fit things may have looked a little better as they would have given us some go forward ball...but im not sure they would have donw much more in the Wales game...we were just walked over.

Hook and Peel could still be the halfbacks for Wales. Both class performers - Be intersting to see how they go

RubyGuby wrote:Hook and Peel could still be the halfbacks for Wales. Both class performers - Be intersting to see how they go

Yeah, and they'll make a good combo but I am glad we aren't facing Fotui'ali or Evans or Jones tbh.

Fotuali out of that lot is a complete menace and he would love a game of this type.

No Nick Evans for this one? That's a shame.

Whens the Baa Baas v Lions game?

Are they saving players for that one. After all this is basically the England saxons...and wont be the same challenge as the Lions.

George Carlin wrote:OP updated. Lovely moment for Jon Poff, ex-Crusader.

So he's the uncapped player?

Not bad for a bloke who's name wasn't allowed on BBC 606 (took me ages to figure out why I couldn't post one time when putting up a Crusaders playing XV in a match preview)