Lions team announced - AWJ captain & BOD dropped

by GLove39 Wed 03 Jul 2013, 3:28 am

First topic message reminder :

Given the whole Horwill incident that adds another interesting edge to Saturdays game!

Gatland names 10 Welshman in his starting XV.
And Richie Gray becomes this weeks token Scot...

1. Corbisiero,
2. Hibbard,
3. A Jones,
4. A W Jones (c),
5. Parling,
6. Lydiate,
7. O'Brien,
8. Faletau

9. Phillips
10. Sexton
11. North
12. Roberts
13. Davis
14. Bowe
15. Halfpenny

Bench - T Youngs, Vunipola, Cole, Gray, Tipuric, Murray, Farrell, Tuilagi.

by red_stag Wed 03 Jul 2013, 8:47 am

GloriousEmpire wrote:"If we can bosh our way into Aussie territory and force penalties for Halfpenny to kick I'm happy enough once we win."

Sigh. Sir Clive! Welcome to the site. Update for you: it's not 2002 any more. A coalition in invaded Iraq Nd Afghanistan, there were no WMDs, Obama was elected as first black president of the USA, riots broke out in London, Arab nation populations rose up against their western sponsored state oppressors and there was a big tsunami. Right you're up to date.

Sexton at 10 = too much ball for Aussie back three = Lions lose.

Ah GE the key word is "If" Very Happy

by Redrage Wed 03 Jul 2013, 8:50 am

Essentially 3 6's in the back row and no proper fetcher - Faletau is a modest carrier but grafts continuously. I'd have preferred to see...

6. O'Brien
7. Tipuric
8. Faletau

I feel that is a hard working back row with balance.

I'd rather have seen Gray in alongside AWJ and Connor Murray at 9. No complaints with BOD not starting Davies is the form centre and if we are looking for a line breaker at 12 then BOD had to go. He hasn't done well enough in the first two tests to be immune from a reshuffle. The back row and Phillips worry me.

by **RDW** Wed 03 Jul 2013, 8:52 am

Apart from the obvious, there are a few key points here:

What the hell has been Gatland’s tactics with Croft? Picked for the first game to give lienout ability, dropped for the 2nd game and told to cover 2nd row, then dropped completely for the 3rd. In some way his dealing with Croft have been a microcosm of this tour as a whole.

There seems to be no clear plan here about how he has wanted the team to play. First test was fairly open with lots of lien breaks and attacking flair. 2nd test he tightened everything up and aimed to play conservative rugby, but picked a lightweight, non-scrummaging pack to do so. 3rd test he’s gone for Gatlandball and picked a big strong, Welsh team to go for route one rugby. You’d think having had a year to prepare he would know what tactics he wants to play.

There is now a real lack of leaders on the pitch. If AWJ goes off who will take over as captain? Parling? He’s no Johnson, Wood, O’connol, BOD or Warbuton. Corbs, Hibbard, Jones, Lydiate, SoB, Faletau, Phillips, Roberts, JD2, North, Bowe and 1/2P are all good players, but leaders they are not.

I can’t help but feel that dropping BoD has handed physiological advantage to Australia. This will be a blow to the Lions players, and Aus will be delighted to not see him there. Yes you could question his playing prowess but the man is an absolute legend and has an aura about him that will be a big loss to the Lions.

I really feel for him – you can imagine him getting pulled aside before the team announcement and expecting to be told he had been appointed captain – instead he was told he has been dropped.

I really want the Lions to win, but I am suddenly not so disappointed I am missing most of the game because I am moving house on Saturday!

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 03 Jul 2013, 8:56 am

RDW, this 'aura' you talk about didn't seem to do us much good last Saturday.

by ME-109 Wed 03 Jul 2013, 8:57 am

Big calls by Gatland. If he pulls it off he will get the kudos even if it is only Australia. No real surprise in his reaction in terms of making big calls but more importantly picking players he knows. It is his limitations as a coach which he has shown in the past , sometimes they work for him sometimes they don't. Shows the necessity of having a non national coaching team for the lions

by RubyGuby Wed 03 Jul 2013, 8:57 am

My only issue is with Parling, not sure what he adds to the team and IMO both Grey and Ian Evans would offer a lot lot more. I like the look of the team but am concerned about the lineouts. I also think AWJ is not a great leader, however that team is not blessed with great leaders but it's good enough to win if they believe! Unfortunately I'm not convinced that they do BELIEVE!

by Guest Wed 03 Jul 2013, 8:58 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Ozzy3213 wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:Wales v australia. Hopefully 9th time lucky for Gatland. Its the Lions and I will be supporting them but of course but Gatlands tactics and selections have been frustrating.

My sentiments exactly.

At least you have players on the pitch. You can feel your players have contributed.

Well I'm very happy - I have 15 of my players in the team and 23 in the squad. Happy days.

by Ulster12 Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:00 am

Tuilagi to the wing if any of the back three get injured!

by Standulstermen Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:01 am

Cardiff Taffy wrote:Disappointment is understandable but someone always has to miss out. None of the calls seem wild or reckless to me.

I don't think any of the calls are ludicrous given that they paint a picture of how Gatland sees the game and he has been successful with it (admittedly not against the SH though). He is the coach and to my mind he has the right and the duty to pick the 23 he thinks will best deliver the series win without worrying about offending BOD, Scotland or England etc. Personally I'm gutted for BOD and I think this snub will drive him in his last year for Ireland but that's professional sport. No room for sentiment. Look at how O'Gara bowed out for Ireland. The longer you play on the more chance of an end in this fashion.

Whilst I agree in the context of Gatlands game plan there are no ludicrous calls here's how it will go should we lose

Hibbard- youngs easily the best performing hooker dropped for dodgy throwing Hibbard
Lydiate- retained for tackling when he doesn't offer anything else and was out tackled by a 34 yr old centre in 2nd test
Faletau- not as controversial but what has Heaslip done wrong?
Phillips- worst performing lion in the first test and injured but parachuted in
Roberts- hast played in 3weeks and done nothing on tour
Davies- responsible for Oz try in the 2nd test and missed multiple tackles but retained over a legend whose defence was perfect

And should we lose the media will be all over the BOD decision and AWJ will be scrutinised mercilessly as our only real leader. I so hope we pull off the win. It's been far too long! Come on Lions!!!

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:03 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5prwhtF9po

by Hookisms and Hyperbole Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:03 am

If I were an Aussie (Heaven forbid) I would be absolutely delighted with this team. Gatland has paniced and gone with what his knows and a few of his personal favourites, form be damned. The players being Welsh isn't really an issue- if Declan Kidney, who Gatland is clearly trying to rip off in terms of selection policies and tactical astuteness, picked this team the story would be out of form selections and players who do not fit the tactical masterplan.

And where there are apparently unity issues, the IRB case against Horwell will only unite them.

The right:
Falateau deserves his opportunity at 8 and would have even my choice for the first test.

SOB has been the standout backrow of the tour so far and should have been in the team before now.

Emmmmm, that's it.

Problems:
BOD, though certainly below his best, outperformed Davies in both tests. Watching the second test again Davies' performance was worse on second inspection, missing nearly 50% of his tackles and he was caught ball watching and flat footed for the try. Now it may well have come after that passage anyway, but it was a poor error. Both centres have been seriously hampered by Gatlands tactics and Davies was excellent leading to the first test so hopefully he can lift his levels. Neithet has offerened anythin in attack in eithet test so to single BOD out in this respect is bizarre. It is a strange call based on test performance and the need for leadership.

Roberts being brought in despite being injured and is a massive risk, especially now that Tuilagi is fit.

Hibbard has had a poor tour, ineffective in the loose and his throwing abject. His form certainly improved when he came on in the second test but when the pressure came on his missed his man in the lineout- a costly, costly error.

AWJ as captain- the Lions are now leaderless and rudderless. Just like four years ago he has come in with a big reputation and again flattered to deceive. Looking at his performances he is a solid, hard working player, but not in the same league as POC or Horwell.

Lydiate- a reductive, negative player who offers little to a team chasing a match. Aside from tackling he offers the team nothing. His breakdown work is also non existent as he stands around the fringes tackling, or in the case of the second test, occasionally making his tackle. Tipuric can do what Lydiate does and so much more.

Phillips- one of the worst individual performances I have seen in any international, possibly only marginally better than Bergamasco against England. He should be nowhere near the side.

Sexton- cannot execute the Gatlanf gameplan. He doesn't have the kicking game and he can't play from deep. Farrell is better placed to play to this style.

I fear for the Lions on Saturday as a team and an entity. But rest assured it will be Gatland's fault and not the players. Fingers crossed they can pull it off. I'm not hopeful

by Taffineastbourne Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:04 am

Not too bad a selection.Would have gone with Murray at 9 and Evans instead of Parling..Very brave to drop BoD ,fairplay.
Cannot wait.

by tigertattie Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:06 am

Trying to barge through Oz to kick penalties???

Andy robinson would be so proud!

If the Ozzies figure out the gameplan (which should not be hard) then I can see them ending the series with a 15+ point win!

by BigTrevsbigmac Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:07 am

Keith Wood - 'A terrible mistake'

Gareth Edwards - ' A side picked to bash the opposition'

Ian Robertson - 'catastrophic ''

Happy days eh?

Jonathon Davies - ' a one dimensional squad'

by jimmyinthewell68 Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:08 am

just been on face book on official lions site . boy there some hatred going on there . bod supporters going mental . thought i come back on here where its safe and they dont know my name censored

by doctor_grey Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:09 am

Hooks,
Agree down the line.
Shocking the number of negative posts.
I know we will all be watching, but the not many people are feeling good about this one. Hoping, of course.
Makes one wonder the thought process behind this entire tour.
Naming players already injured, playing a regressive game plan, no real plan b, just reactive selections, IN a way, as bad as Woodwards.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:10 am

doctor_grey wrote:Naming players already injured, playing a regressive game plan, no real plan b, just reactive selections, IN a way, as bad as Woodwards.

by nathan Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:10 am

Some good and bad calls;

Hibbard in for T. Youngs
Hibbard is the better scrummager, but i think (strange to be saying this) i think T. Youngs is better at the lineout and in the loose. I would of kept him inonly if he was liniing up alongside corbs and jones.

Phillips for Youngs
Hopefully Phillips is fully fit and raring to go, personally i don't think any of the 9's have played brilliant this tour. Last test i think Murrey played better than Youngs so i would of started with him and had phillips on the bench.

Parling
I agree with the Parling selection as AWJ is captain, so Parling will be calling the lineout so it's one less thing for AWJ to think about. If Parling is calling the lineout i think it would made more sense to have T. Youngs instead of hibbard.

Centres
Centres were always going to see a few players dissapointed and i do feel sorry for BOD, but i'm sure he understands. I'm not sure why but i have a sneaky feeling that Roberts isn't 100%, i would of prefered to see a BOD/Roberts or a BOD/Tuilagi centre pairing

by RubyGuby Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:11 am

Hibbard- Offers far more power in the scrum and the loose where we are set to dominate to get the team on the front foot
Lydiate- To see him as one dimensional is not to understnad rugby - He has nullified the much "vaunted" Irish back throw on his last 3 appearances against them, winning each time. His presence will allow the 2 other ball carriers in the back row to take it up. Much better balance
Faletau- What has Heaslip done wrong? or should that be What exactly has Heaslip done as he has been anonomous in both Tests and Toby has a far more physical presence
Phillips- Front foot ball with a much more supportive back row is the right choice - Youngs showed how effective he was last week before being taken off for Murray who's just there to make the numbers up
Roberts- Lions man of the series - Class is permanent and he's not 34
Davies- The form centre of the tour who suffered like everyone else last week due to a lightweight selection - Has the intelligence and power and will be playing alongside his international partner - Perfect.

Now Parlings inclusion - That is a different matter and a weak link IMO

by fa0019 Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:12 am

How often has Gatlands power game worked when at Wales vs. SH opposition??? the answer is frightening. It didn't even work vs. Samoa and Argentina last year.

We have no leaders in this team... no BOD, no POC, no Warburton. When you're away from home and under the cosh you need leaders... not just chaps who have led their team in the Rabo.

You drop the centre who tackled his heart out and never missed one.... and has been impotent in attack due to Davies being unable to pass a ball. Give him a platform and BOD is as deadly as anyone out there. Selecting Davies is a joke.

by nathan Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:15 am

RubyGuby wrote: Hibbard- Offers far more power in the scrum and the loose where we are set to dominate to get the team on the front foot
Lydiate- To see him as one dimensional is not to understnad rugby - He has nullified the much "vaunted" Irish back throw on his last 3 appearances against them, winning each time. His presence will allow the 2 other ball carriers in the back row to take it up. Much better balance
Faletau- What has Heaslip done wrong? or should that be What exactly has Heaslip done as he has been anonomous in both Tests and Toby has a far more physical presence
Phillips- Front foot ball with a much more supportive back row is the right choice - Youngs showed how effective he was last week before being taken off for Murray who's just there to make the numbers up
Roberts- Lions man of the series - Class is permanent and he's not 34
Davies- The form centre of the tour who suffered like everyone else last week due to a lightweight selection - Has the intelligence and power and will be playing alongside his international partner - Perfect.

Now Parlings inclusion - That is a different matter and a weak link IMO

is it not obvious? Parling is there to call the lineout so AWJ doesnt have to and can focus on making the captain decisions.

by fa0019 Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:19 am

RubyGuby wrote: Hibbard- Offers far more power in the scrum and the loose where we are set to dominate to get the team on the front foot
Lydiate- To see him as one dimensional is not to understnad rugby - He has nullified the much "vaunted" Irish back throw on his last 3 appearances against them, winning each time. His presence will allow the 2 other ball carriers in the back row to take it up. Much better balance
Faletau- What has Heaslip done wrong? or should that be What exactly has Heaslip done as he has been anonomous in both Tests and Toby has a far more physical presence
Phillips- Front foot ball with a much more supportive back row is the right choice - Youngs showed how effective he was last week before being taken off for Murray who's just there to make the numbers up
Roberts- Lions man of the series - Class is permanent and he's not 34
Davies- The form centre of the tour who suffered like everyone else last week due to a lightweight selection - Has the intelligence and power and will be playing alongside his international partner - Perfect.

Now Parlings inclusion - That is a different matter and a weak link IMO

Ruby... how does Lydiate tackling allow the others to ball carry more? One is defence, one is attack. Perhaps you mean his ruck clearing abilities.... he's certainly not prolific, both Faletau & O'Brien are much more so and I think you may find them competing rucks more than Lydiate.. which is not what you want since they will be our 2 strongest ball carriers in the tight. Balance is not right.

So much for Gatland saying that he needs a genuine openside (as to why he ignored Robshaw). O'Brien for all his merits is not one of them, he's not even close. If Smith is chosen, we're done for.... could AUS play Mowen at 8 and Smith and Hooper together??? That would destroy us.

by Cardiff Taffy Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:19 am

BOD is class act both on and off the field. He is possibly the best player of his generation and I expect he will handle the disappointment well. He will be rallying round his team-mates and ensuring that they are all prepared for what comes on Saturday. Just hope he doesn't write a book about it!

by Standulstermen Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:19 am

I'm surprised the knives are out this early. Read the Iain Robertson comment on the beeb article and while I agree, he shouldn't have dropped BOD, if we win the match and awful lot of people will look very silly

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:22 am

red_stag wrote:
Gray simply put isn't playing well enough. Two years ago he was a guarantee on everyones fantasy Lions selections but he hasn't delivered this year.

Never heard such PISH in all my days. Just because he isn't selling dummies to Kearney or any other full back doesn't mean he isn't playing well enough.

I would like to know in what games he has played poorly on tour. He has been a consistant top tackler, top carrier in the pack and done his job in the scrum and lineout.

What more is expected of an international lock?

by debaters1 Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:23 am

I'd imagine that Sexton is Vice Captain should AWJ have to leave at any point. You could argue now that AWJ is now the Lions most important player.

Sexton and the whole backline really need to up their game with ball in hand. Seek out space and be hung for Lions as lambs. 15 or 18 points from the boot will not be good enough this week.

Corbs back and hopefully fit enough for 80 should give us the scrum edge again and if we get a scrum with in 15 metres and win a penalty, we go for the jugular and keep rescrumming until the ref walks under the posts.

Our tactics now have to be such as to make the Wallibies bleed before the win. Hurt them in every facet of the game, make it a helter skelter affair. As Anthony Foley would call it "Controlled Fury".

by Standulstermen Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:23 am

RubyGuby wrote: Hibbard- Offers far more power in the scrum and the loose where we are set to dominate to get the team on the front foot
Lydiate- To see him as one dimensional is not to understnad rugby - He has nullified the much "vaunted" Irish back throw on his last 3 appearances against them, winning each time. His presence will allow the 2 other ball carriers in the back row to take it up. Much better balance
Faletau- What has Heaslip done wrong? or should that be What exactly has Heaslip done as he has been anonomous in both Tests and Toby has a far more physical presence
Phillips- Front foot ball with a much more supportive back row is the right choice - Youngs showed how effective he was last week before being taken off for Murray who's just there to make the numbers up
Roberts- Lions man of the series - Class is permanent and he's not 34
Davies- The form centre of the tour who suffered like everyone else last week due to a lightweight selection - Has the intelligence and power and will be playing alongside his international partner - Perfect.

Now Parlings inclusion - That is a different matter and a weak link IMO

Was that directed at me ruby? I'm not having a go at Gatland. While I wouldn't have made some of his calls as I said I think he has a duty to himself to do what he believes to be best for the lions. My point was that he has made the rod for his back if things don't go our way this weekend. I admire the guts it takes but if the end result is losing what should have been a series win then he will get hammered. Look at some of the media comment already!

by RubyGuby Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:24 am

nathan wrote:
RubyGuby wrote: Hibbard- Offers far more power in the scrum and the loose where we are set to dominate to get the team on the front foot
Lydiate- To see him as one dimensional is not to understnad rugby - He has nullified the much "vaunted" Irish back throw on his last 3 appearances against them, winning each time. His presence will allow the 2 other ball carriers in the back row to take it up. Much better balance
Faletau- What has Heaslip done wrong? or should that be What exactly has Heaslip done as he has been anonomous in both Tests and Toby has a far more physical presence
Phillips- Front foot ball with a much more supportive back row is the right choice - Youngs showed how effective he was last week before being taken off for Murray who's just there to make the numbers up
Roberts- Lions man of the series - Class is permanent and he's not 34
Davies- The form centre of the tour who suffered like everyone else last week due to a lightweight selection - Has the intelligence and power and will be playing alongside his international partner - Perfect.

Now Parlings inclusion - That is a different matter and a weak link IMO

is it not obvious? Parling is there to call the lineout so AWJ doesnt have to and can focus on making the captain decisions.

So that would be Parling who was part of the team with the worse line out stats in the 6 Nations then - Quality - He was non existent last week and as many have stated his inclusion is perhaps the only baffling one

by Redrage Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:25 am

nathan wrote:

is it not obvious? Parling is there to call the lineout so AWJ doesnt have to and can focus on making the captain decisions.

Pure tosh... You may be right that he has been picked to run the line out but he hasn't been picked to unburden AWJ from it. A hooker can make that call, so could AWJ, it is totally irrelevant who makes it if they know what they are doing or if they are the captain. Does Horwell call the Aussie line? Did Johnno call it when he captained the lions? You can either do you your job as captain and do the rest of your positional work or you shouldn't be in the test side. Who will call the line out if Parling goes off?

by tigerleghorn Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:25 am

Really feel for Bod, what a way to end a stellar career. I think a Bod/Tuilagi combo would have been very productive.

Not sure why Croft was selected to tour, Gat's clearly doesn't get him. Poor Croft must be v confused.

by **rodders** Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:27 am

Not surprised at all by the selection.

Feel for BOD but he's given Gats enough ammunition to do what he always planned and get one back on the IRFU.

The fact that he has been imperious in defence and offerered more in attack than the mythical Davies,whos become the new Lydiate (i.e. the best player in the world when no one is looking), is easy to airbrush over if you hilight the poor kick and intercept pass from last week....as is the fact that Davies has had one (One more than Roberts at least) good game on tour and was all over the place in defence last week.

Also for BOD to lead the Lions to a series victory would be a real sickner for Gats given that Warburton has been the worst Lions captain in living memory. At least AWJ, whos had a great tour in fairness, taking up the reigns keeps it in the family.

Any hoo - Faletau and O'Brien are well deserving of the call up, despite the backrow balance going out the window. Parling was anonomous last week but given that the lineout has been a disaster all tour there wasn't much option.

Ben Youngs is unlucky but was played off the park by Genia, but then the Lions have generally - he's had Lydiate/Croft and Warbs eating out off his hands. Corbiesero will make the big difference as Vainapolo's selection over Grant probably cost us the game last week.

Phillips and Roberts will give us more go forward but if we don't dominate the set piece and possession I think they could cut us up down the left hand side, where Davies and North have been exposed time and time again this series, something ignored by skysports.

Australia by 12-15 I fear. Momentum was with Australia anyways but Gats has thrown the baby out with the bath water with this one.

by fa0019 Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:28 am

Parlings inclusion... I think he needs someone who isn't Welsh to blame for the forthcoming storm after the defeat... choose every Welshman available and he has no where to turn.

Taking Evans (probably up their with Best as the poorest tourist in the squad) would have been too much to stomach even Gatland. Andy Irvine would have choked on his Coco Pops in the morning meeting when Gatland said he was thinking about bringing in Evans for Parling.

by nathan Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:28 am

Redrage wrote:
nathan wrote:

is it not obvious? Parling is there to call the lineout so AWJ doesnt have to and can focus on making the captain decisions.

Pure tosh... You may be right that he has been picked to run the line out but he hasn't been picked to unburden AWJ from it. A hooker can make that call, so could AWJ, it is totally irrelevant who makes it if they know what they are doing or if they are the captain. Does Horwell call the Aussie line? Did Johnno call it when he captained the lions? You can either do you your job as captain and do the rest of your positional work or you shouldn't be in the test side. Who will call the line out if Parling goes off?

You should go read the lions press quotes as Gatland gives that EXACT reason.

by Standulstermen Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:30 am

tigerleghorn wrote:Really feel for Bod, what a way to end a stellar career. I think a Bod/Tuilagi combo would have been very productive.

Not sure why Croft was selected to tour, Gat's clearly doesn't get him. Poor Croft must be v confused.

He isn't done yet tiger! I suspect this will drive him next season and he still has a crack at NZ and the 6N left under Schmidt!

by nathan Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:31 am

RubyGuby wrote:
nathan wrote:
RubyGuby wrote: Hibbard- Offers far more power in the scrum and the loose where we are set to dominate to get the team on the front foot
Lydiate- To see him as one dimensional is not to understnad rugby - He has nullified the much "vaunted" Irish back throw on his last 3 appearances against them, winning each time. His presence will allow the 2 other ball carriers in the back row to take it up. Much better balance
Faletau- What has Heaslip done wrong? or should that be What exactly has Heaslip done as he has been anonomous in both Tests and Toby has a far more physical presence
Phillips- Front foot ball with a much more supportive back row is the right choice - Youngs showed how effective he was last week before being taken off for Murray who's just there to make the numbers up
Roberts- Lions man of the series - Class is permanent and he's not 34
Davies- The form centre of the tour who suffered like everyone else last week due to a lightweight selection - Has the intelligence and power and will be playing alongside his international partner - Perfect.

Now Parlings inclusion - That is a different matter and a weak link IMO

is it not obvious? Parling is there to call the lineout so AWJ doesnt have to and can focus on making the captain decisions.

So that would be Parling who was part of the team with the worse line out stats in the 6 Nations then - Quality - He was non existent last week and as many have stated his inclusion is perhaps the only baffling one

and hibbard has some of the worst stats for throwing in this tour... The reason our lineout was poop was because of T. Youngs throwing.

by Redrage Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:33 am

nathan wrote:
Redrage wrote:
nathan wrote:

is it not obvious? Parling is there to call the lineout so AWJ doesnt have to and can focus on making the captain decisions.

Pure tosh... You may be right that he has been picked to run the line out but he hasn't been picked to unburden AWJ from it. A hooker can make that call, so could AWJ, it is totally irrelevant who makes it if they know what they are doing or if they are the captain. Does Horwell call the Aussie line? Did Johnno call it when he captained the lions? You can either do you your job as captain and do the rest of your positional work or you shouldn't be in the test side. Who will call the line out if Parling goes off?

You should go read the lions press quotes as Gatland gives that EXACT reason.

So what was he picked for last week? Comments like that are 10 a penny. They don't have to mean them.

by marty2086 Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:34 am

Gatlands going all out with the physical game that has yet to work for him, Sexton made the most yards last week by moving the ball and trying to be creative thats by BOD should have been in the team for as hes perfect for that

by nathan Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:36 am

Redrage wrote:
nathan wrote:
Redrage wrote:
nathan wrote:

is it not obvious? Parling is there to call the lineout so AWJ doesnt have to and can focus on making the captain decisions.

Pure tosh... You may be right that he has been picked to run the line out but he hasn't been picked to unburden AWJ from it. A hooker can make that call, so could AWJ, it is totally irrelevant who makes it if they know what they are doing or if they are the captain. Does Horwell call the Aussie line? Did Johnno call it when he captained the lions? You can either do you your job as captain and do the rest of your positional work or you shouldn't be in the test side. Who will call the line out if Parling goes off?

You should go read the lions press quotes as Gatland gives that EXACT reason.

So what was he picked for last week? Comments like that are 10 a penny. They don't have to mean them.

maybe, but if the guy that picked the team gives a reason for picking a player over another i'm prettly inclined to believe thats the real reason.

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:41 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
red_stag wrote:
Gray simply put isn't playing well enough. Two years ago he was a guarantee on everyones fantasy Lions selections but he hasn't delivered this year.

Never heard such PISH in all my days. Just because he isn't selling dummies to Kearney or any other full back doesn't mean he isn't playing well enough.

I would like to know in what games he has played poorly on tour. He has been a consistant top tackler, top carrier in the pack and done his job in the scrum and lineout.

What more is expected of an international lock?

In addition what has AWJ done so well to be named Lions captain? From my knowlege (and I have watched every game) I can only recall him being outstanding in one match.

by beshocked Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:42 am

redrage I agree I would rather see that backrow but Gatland wasn't going to drop his son.

Robshaw and Brown should have probably toured instead of Croft and Lydiate but Gatland has to make the best with what he's got now.

I agree with your other suggestions too but it's not bad.

RDW Scotland dealing with the enigma Croft is difficult for everyone! Croft is a good player but difficult to gel comfortably into a team in my opinion.

At least there is a good bench no?

by Redrage Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:42 am

nathan wrote:

maybe, but if the guy that picked the team gives a reason for picking a player over another i'm prettly inclined to believe thats the real reason.

He never gave that as a reason though. He stated a fact....

"There's a little bit of pressure taken off him with the fact that Geoff Parling will be calling the lineout'

That is not the same as 'we picked Parling because AWJ can't captain and call a lineout' because that would be a load of rot.

by Redrage Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:43 am

beshocked wrote:

At least there is a good bench no?

Very true there is a bit of impact this week.

by R!skysports Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:44 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
red_stag wrote:
Gray simply put isn't playing well enough. Two years ago he was a guarantee on everyones fantasy Lions selections but he hasn't delivered this year.

Never heard such PISH in all my days. Just because he isn't selling dummies to Kearney or any other full back doesn't mean he isn't playing well enough.

I would like to know in what games he has played poorly on tour. He has been a consistant top tackler, top carrier in the pack and done his job in the scrum and lineout.

What more is expected of an international lock?

Totally agree

Gray has been on great form. The only one to blot his copy book was the loss, but even in that he was one of the shining lights

by fa0019 Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:44 am

If you don't use Croft wisely then he's a wasted commodity. Use his skills and you reap benefits. Its like BOD.... don't set him up and he's toothless in attack. Give him the platform and he's deadly.

by nathan Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:46 am

Redrage wrote:
nathan wrote:

maybe, but if the guy that picked the team gives a reason for picking a player over another i'm prettly inclined to believe thats the real reason.

He never gave that as a reason though. He stated a fact....

"There's a little bit of pressure taken off him with the fact that Geoff Parling will be calling the lineout'

That is not the same as 'we picked Parling because AWJ can't captain and call a lineout' because that would be a load of rot.

when did anyone say he picked parling becuase AWJ can't captain and call a lineout?

by Scrumpy Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:47 am

This has all become rather dull and predictable, the Lions may very well go on and win but imo Gatland has failed to blend the cream of the home nations together and has reverted to type.

Go Lions. Crying or Very sad

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:47 am

It actually looks like a WUM team.

by **rodders** Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:47 am

Redrage wrote:
beshocked wrote:

At least there is a good bench no?

Very true there is a bit of impact this week.

fantastic indeed.

If Roberts isn't able to run through the Ozzies we can bring on Manu to try instead and if Phillips service is too fast we can bring on Murray to slow it down.

by Scrumpy Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:48 am

Redrage wrote:
beshocked wrote:

At least there is a good bench no?

Very true there is a bit of impact this week.

If Gatland uses it!

by The Bachelor Wed 03 Jul 2013, 9:49 am

I'm glad Faletau gets a chance. Quick question to Irish fans - in your games vs NZ last year wasn't SOB really good on the floor? I seem to remember him excelling in at least one of the tests.

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