Singapore Gp Thread - Contains Race/Qualifying Spoilers

[Fernando]

First topic message reminder :

The bright lights of the Marina Bay circuit provide the welcome this week as F1 heads east for the Singapore Grand Prix, the 13th round of the 2013 FIA Formula One World Championship. After the high-speed demands of Monza, the streets of Singapore offer a very different challenge.

With 23 corners, unforgiving walls and a lap time longer than at any other current grand prix, Marina Bay demands ultimate concentration from drivers – but Singapore does everything it can to shake that concentration. Between the abundant undulations of the city boulevards, the glare of the lights, the high temperatures and the humidity, Singapore presents perhaps the sternest challenge of the racing year.

Since joining the World Championship calendar in 2008, the Singapore Grand Prix has been won by just three drivers, who are also the three men leading the chase for the 2013 drivers’ title. Fernando Alonso won in 2008 and 2010, bracketing a win for Lewis Hamilton in 2009. The last two runnings of the race have seen Sebastian Vettel victorious.

In 2012 Singapore marked the start of a four-race winning sequence for Vettel that saw him steadily diminish Alonso’s lead in the drivers’ championship. Vettel comes to Singapore this year in much better shape, off the back of wins in Belgium and Italy, both executed in imperious fashion. In doing so the reigning World Champion has established a lead of 53 points over Alonso and 81 over Hamilton.

Vettel isn’t expected to have it quite so easy on the streets of Marina Bay. The strategic significance of track position, the ever-present threat of safety cars and forecast thunderstorms all contribute to make this grand prix potentially more complicated that those that have preceded it.

► The Singapore Grand Prix has always ran close to the two-hour maximum race time. The shortest Singapore Grand Prix to date was the 2009 race, won by Lewis Hamilton for McLaren in a time of 1:56:06.337. Fernando Alonso’s victories in 2008 and 2010 were both completed in 1h57m and Sebastian Vettel’s triumph in 2011 pushed that out to 1h59m. The 2012 race was the slowest to date with Vettel’s winning time recorded as 2:00:26.144. Having gone beyond the two-hour cut-off point, the chequered flag was waved after 59 laps on this occasion instead of the scheduled 61. This was the first time since 2008 a grand prix had been completed by duration rather than distance.
► The above statistic paints a slightly false picture, as the Singapore Grand Prix has never been allowed to go the distance at racing speeds. The safety car has appeared every year to slow down proceedings. The proximity of barriers and the difficulty in accessing the circuit to clear wreckage make this circuit a high-probability candidate for a safety car deployment – something race strategists have to factor into their calculations. ► Despite being the grand prix that takes the longest to complete, Singapore has a higher average speed than Monaco. The disparity is explained by the Monaco Grand Prix running over a shorter distance than the rest of the calendar.
► In common with Monaco, Singapore is a maximum downforce circuit (and therefore sits at the opposite end of the scale to Monza). Other notable setup factors are necessitated by the uneven nature of the street surfaces and the need to attack kerbs through the tight right-angle street junctions. To address these issues, teams raise their ride-height and also set up with maximum suspension travel.
► The Formula One race is the second iteration of the Singapore Grand Prix. Its predecessor is a Formula Libre race which, having previously been called the Malaysian Grand Prix, became the Singapore Grand Prix after the city-state gained independence. The original incarnation of the Singapore Grand Prix ran from 1966-1973. ► Over the five-race history of the modern Singapore Grand Prix, Sebastian Vettel, Fernando Alonso and Jenson Button are the only drivers to have completed every lap of every race.
► Despite the ever-present threat of rain in the tropics, and the frequent showers and thunderstorms that have preceded and followed the race, the Singapore Grand Prix has, to date, always been a dry race.
► Pirelli is bringing its Supersoft and Medium compounds to Singapore. This combination has been used in 2013 at the Australian and Canadian Grands Prix. As was the case in Montreal, Singapore is nominally going a step harder this year, Pirelli having allocated the Supersoft and Soft compounds in 2012 and 2011.

Weather Forecast:http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/1880252
Source: FIA

[Guest]

Vettel 2 seconds quicker than Rosberg after the restart. I don't buy that was solely down to rubber in Nico`s wing. Difficult to watch & comprehend. Both Championships done & dusted.

[bogbrush]

The nagging second places by Alonso mean it stays alive, but the real problem now is the countdown of races to go. Massive reliability or shunt problems now needed to stop Vettel.

[bogbrush]

haha, Vettel on radio celebrating how the car was perfect.. meanwhile, Webber's engine is in flames. I know it is just bad luck, but you have to wonder just how much of a coincidence it really is, it seems to happen so much. Will be interesting to see if the same continues when Riccardo is in the team.

Nice to see Alonso return the favour by giving Mark a lift back.

What do you think? They sabotaged him?

[SteveG]

Boring race until the safety car - Ferrari got their strategy spot on.
Then the odd battle here and there, Hamilton being held up by Rossberg and thats about it.

As for the Bulls nothing much to say except for the sake of the championship the wrong one blew up. But TBH it doesnt really matter anymore.

So where next? Who cares.

[GSC]

If you don't like it, don't watch it is my suggestion.

[GSC]

Vettel booed on the podium again, it's all a bit sad really.

[dyrewolfe]

haha, Vettel on radio celebrating how the car was perfect.. meanwhile, Webber's engine is in flames. I know it is just bad luck, but you have to wonder just how much of a coincidence it really is, it seems to happen so much. Will be interesting to see if the same continues when Riccardo is in the team.

Nice to see Alonso return the favour by giving Mark a lift back.

What do you think? They sabotaged him?

Possibly. Vettel is sewing up the drivers' and constructor's titles single-handed and Mark is leaving at the end of the season anyway.

Not that I'm suggesting it was deliberate sabotage, but they probably picked out the dodgiest gearbox/engine combo they had left and stuck it in Webber's car, giving Seb the best one...naturally...

[GSC]

Tbf both gearboxes fell apart at Monza and Seb had brake problems here

[SteveG]

Seb had brake problems???. He was lapping 2 seconds a lap faster than anyone else - what brake problems were those. The usual radio bo***cks so Horner can come on at the end of the race and say there were some 'challenges'. lol.

[GSC]

Just like at Monza when RB rearranged his gearbox overnight for fun.

This is getting more than a bit sad now guys.

[GSC]

His car was actually fine at Silverstone, he just stopped to make the Championship more interesting for himself

[dyrewolfe]

Vettel booed on the podium again, it's all a bit sad really.

Vettel seems to find it amusing, so don't feel too bad for him.

While I agree its a bit undignified, you can't help but feel he's brought it on himself to an extent.

Anyway, back to the race. Pretty pedestrian for the most part, it only really came alive in the last 10 laps or so.

A brief moment of hope when Rosberg passed Vettel into the first corner but after that it was just a fight over 2nd and 3rd place. Another big disappointment for Webber who was running in 4th when he began having engine issues, eventually forced to retire on the last lap.

A trademark blinding start for Alonso got him into podium contention early on, eventually getting 2nd when Rosberg fell away. Massa unable to improve from his qualifying position finished a fairly distant 6th.

Drive of the day for me has to be Raikkonen. Qualified a pretty miserable 13th but some great driving (hampered by a bad back) and good team strategy saw him finish 3rd. Grosjean was looking good for a decent points finish but had to retire while running in 6th due to engine airflow issues.

Pretty decent race for Mercedes. While Rosberg was unable to hold on to his 2nd place, he finished a very respectable 4th, while Hamilton, like Massa, finished where he started in 5th.

McLaren looked as though they had found a clever strategy to get them well up in the points finishes (trying a 2-stop). Button looked on for a podium, running 3rd, going into the final 10 laps or so, but his tyres fell off the proverbial cliff and he ended up losing several places in the space of 3-4 laps. Still finished ahead of where he qualified, ending up 7th, with Perez right on his tail in 8th. Think they possibly should have tried to stretch their first stint another 5 laps or so (easy to say with hindsight).

[dyrewolfe]

His car was actually fine at Silverstone, he just stopped to make the Championship more interesting for himself

I could almost, very nearly believe that...if it weren't for his obsession with collecting stats...  

[GSC]

His car was actually fine at Silverstone, he just stopped to make the Championship more interesting for himself

I could almost, very nearly believe that...if it weren't for his obsession with collecting stats...  

Anyone seen Rush btw. Good movie.

[bogbrush]

haha, Vettel on radio celebrating how the car was perfect.. meanwhile, Webber's engine is in flames. I know it is just bad luck, but you have to wonder just how much of a coincidence it really is, it seems to happen so much. Will be interesting to see if the same continues when Riccardo is in the team.

Nice to see Alonso return the favour by giving Mark a lift back.

What do you think? They sabotaged him?

Possibly. Vettel is sewing up the drivers' and constructor's titles single-handed and Mark is leaving at the end of the season anyway.

Not that I'm suggesting it was deliberate sabotage, but they probably picked out the dodgiest gearbox/engine combo they had left and stuck it in Webber's car, giving Seb the best one...naturally...

Bizarre.

I tried reading this post three times to find the logic but I'm coming up short.

[bogbrush]

Just like at Monza when RB rearranged his gearbox overnight for fun.

This is getting more than a bit sad now guys.

Don't say that, I find it hilarious.

Now we've got the theory that they accidentally sabotaged (????) Webbers car by putting a dodgy gearbox in because Vettel is winning the Championship and Webber is leaving.    

[GSC]

I heard they're taking away Vergnes steering wheel in Japan because Ricciardo is going to RB

[Bull]

His car was actually fine at Silverstone, he just stopped to make the Championship more interesting for himself

I could almost, very nearly believe that...if it weren't for his obsession with collecting stats...  

Anyone seen Rush btw. Good movie.

Yes saw it at opening day. Very good.

[GSC]

Even Alonso is in on the Webber conspiracy, after Webber received a 10 place grid penalty for his ride back to the pits

[bsando]

Just when Webber thought his day couldn't get any worse haha, what an unlucky guy. Shame on the FIA, bunch of miserable c***s!

[GSC]

He and Alonso both got reprimanded, its Webbers 3rd of the season so he gets a penalty

[Steffan]

Get in there Vettel

[bogbrush]

Even Alonso is in on the Webber conspiracy, after Webber received a 10 place grid penalty for his ride back to the pits

Oh boy........ the lengths Christian Horner will go to to stuff Mark.

Seriously though, I was thinking watching it how dodgy it looked. In today's safety culture I was wondering if it was allowed.

[bsando]

Surely the FIA should let both drivers off, what kind of sad society d owe live in these days? Governed by petty rules and regulations. Alonso picking up Webber after he had had a bad day in the office brought a lot of smiles to fans faces. Many have even said it was the most exciting thing that happened in what was a pretty average Singapore GP (usually my fav GP). Now pretty much every F1 fan is writing comments of abuse on social networking sites. The right thing for FIA to do would be to let them both off for a nothing incident. No harm done, no penalty, unlike Marks other two infringements that were potentially dangerous racing incidents.

[GSC]

Eh, rules are rules and its his 3rd reprimand

[bsando]

 

[Guest]

FIA & its rules are a joke, this is just embarrassing in what has turned out to be a dire season. No wonder Webber wants to leave the sport, it was such a nice moment to see between drivers, yet cruelly ruined. As for the race, how can you call what Vettel is doing actual racing. It was ridiculous watching him two seconds quicker than Rosberg & the field after the restart. Newey`s modified upgrade has blown the field away. Agree with SteveG, again embarrassing listening to Roque trying to fool us into thinking Vettel has issues.

Shocking season, both Championships are won. Alonso can keep achieving podiums but it won't be anywhere near enough. Roll on 2014.

[bogbrush]

I had 100% sympathy for Mark until I read what Rosberg and Hamilton had to do to avoid crashing into them.

No problem on a normal circuit but a bit silly on a street circuit at night.

John, if you don't call thrashing away at incredible speed racing, then I don't know what word is appropriate.

I thought Nikki Lauda said it well after the race; the people criticising Vettel just don't understand what is happening out there. He said he was hugely impressed and would award him the Championship for that display alone. I just can't bring myself to think Lauda doesn't understand the sport.

[GSC]

Theres something wrong with being 2 seconds a lap faster than the field?

These attempts to discredit Vettel are getting better and better.

[Guest]

Bogbrush, there conserving for the majority of the race, will be worse next year with 40% less fuel usage. These drivers aren't pushing at flat out speeds & anyway I was referring to Vettel & stating that this domination isn't racing, its a Sunday stroll of no competition, embarrassing for the pinnacle of Motorsport. That leads onto GSC. Of course there's nothing wrong with being two seconds quicker than your rivals but for the good of F1 its ridiculous. Not taking anything away from Vettel. He gets in, drives the car & dominates for four years. Bravo. However, as Brundle said, people know its not Vettel`s ability n speed, its Newey who is the difference maker.

[Fernando]

If it's the car why can't Webber do it? There's a clear lack of talent compared to Seb on his part.

Also going back through the last 13 years how many world champions didn't have the best car? Id say Raikkonen in 2007 at a push and that's it, Ferrari dominated with Schumi, Renault fought back with their Mass Damper car, Mclaren were top dogs in 2008, 2009 Brawn dominated 75% of the season and now Seb and his RB

I guess this means Schumacher/Alonso/Hamilton/Button/Vettel are now terrible drivers who never had a competitive teammate.

Schumi - Rubens
Alonso - Trulli/Fisichella
Kimi - Massa 
Hamilton - Kovalainen
Button - Rubens
Vettel - Webber.

[GSC]

Vettels won a race in a Toro Rosso.

[bogbrush]

Bogbrush, there conserving for the majority of the race, will be worse next year with 40% less fuel usage. These drivers aren't pushing at flat out speeds & anyway I was referring to Vettel & stating that this domination isn't racing, its a Sunday stroll of no competition, embarrassing for the pinnacle of Motorsport. That leads onto GSC. Of course there's nothing wrong with being two seconds quicker than your rivals but for the good of F1 its ridiculous. Not taking anything away from Vettel. He gets in, drives the car & dominates for four years. Bravo. However, as Brundle said, people know its not Vettel`s ability n speed, its Newey who is the difference maker.

You do know a Brundle was taking the p1$$ when he said that don't you? Brundle is a big admirer of Vettel and very much not a member of the 'it's just the car' brigade. His words were similar to "and you know, there are people who say this isn't him, it's just the car....." Then he was cut off by events.

[Fernando]

Vettels won a race in a Toro Rosso.

Did you know Vettel beat Hamilton in the 1st to use a potty race. He had a hybrid to speed up pooping at age 2. 

#BestCarBestPotty

[bogbrush]

Vettels won a race in a Toro Rosso.

And he's done a lot more on top before RB. youngest ever point winner, won that race off pole, numerous fastest practice times in the Toro Rosso.

I don't run Hamilton down for having no pedigree before McLaren because I use my eyes and judgement to tell me he's a great driver, but that rule to run Vettel down (which us wrong on the facts) doesn't count against Lewis on here for anyone. Double standards.

[Guest]

No pedigree before McLaren? Formula 3 Champion/GP2 Champion.....etc. I don't go on about Vettel being beaten by Di Resta prior to F1. Vettel is a good driver & he's destroyed Webber, however his achievements are nothing that Alonso or another top driver couldn't of achieved. If Alonso joined RB back in 2010, he'd be a six time world champion by now.

You can interpret what Brundle said, however he can`t rate him too highly seeing as he constantly blogs stating Hamilton is the fastest man in F1 & Alonso the most complete. F1 is about luck & timing & he's taking full advantage, which is credit to him. I still won`t judge Vettel, like alot of people, until at least 2015/16, when hopefully he decides to take on a worthy team-mate in a non-newey car. Will he take that risk & challenge himself or put his reputation on the line is the big question. If he does, my respect for him will grow & then we will witness how `great` Vettel really is. That's how I see it.

[beninho]

People that complain that vetell doesn't get enough credit then seem to go over the top about how good he is. He is clearly a very good driver and no one disputes that. He has got lucky that the car he has got is the best car around and consistently the best for a few years. He is also helped by having the car built for him. What he did before though makes no difference as previously mentioned maldonado won in a Williams last year so these things show it can just be your day no matter the car.

Is f1 a bit dull at the moment though?? In my view yes.

Did red bull moan about the tyres until they got changed and now suit there car..again yes.

Is vetell likeable? In my view not very. But he is obviously a spoiled kid who got everything in his pursuit of greatness. A lot of young sportsmen are similar.

[GSC]

When have Alonso or Hamilton ever chosen to take on a top driver to prove their greatness?

Its all about winning. As Nando said, Hamilton and Alonso also won their titles in the best car. Does that make them decent drivers who lucked into a good car?

[GSC]

Scratch that, Hamilton clearly went to Mercedes to pit his wits against the mighty Nico Rosberg.

And we all remember that touching interview when Alonso joined Ferrari when he said it was an honour to be on the same team as the 30 second WC

[bogbrush]

People that complain that vetell doesn't get enough credit then seem to go over the top about how good he is. He is clearly a very good driver and no one disputes that. He has got lucky that the car he has got is the best car around and consistently the best for a few years. He is also helped by having the car built for him.  What he did before though makes no difference as previously mentioned maldonado won in a Williams last year so these things show it can just be your day no matter the car.

Is f1 a bit dull at the moment though?? In my view yes.

Did red bull moan about the tyres until they got changed and now suit there car..again yes.

Is vetell likeable? In my view not very. But he is obviously a spoiled kid who got everything in his pursuit of greatness. A lot of young sportsmen are similar.

Ah the tired old Madonado argument. Yeah, let's match one fluke win against a young career loaded with promise.  

I don't say Vettel is some kind of all time great. I don't do hyperbole over him, but I do see an exceptional driver who accepts competition (Silverstone 2012 reaction, you guys pretend that never happened but it did).

Alonso is deeply flawed: ran away from Hamilton at McLaren, won't accept a co #1 anywhere (until LDeM slapped him round the other week). Hammy is a speedy driver but has screwed up more races than Vettel probably ever will. They're all super drivers, but only one gets all his ability denied.

Nikki Lauda called it right today.

[bogbrush]

No pedigree before McLaren? Formula 3 Champion/GP2 Champion.....etc. I don't go on about Vettel being beaten by Di Resta prior to F1. Vettel is a good driver & he's destroyed Webber, however his achievements are nothing that Alonso or another top driver couldn't of achieved. If Alonso joined RB back in 2010, he'd be a six time world champion by now.

You can interpret what Brundle said, however he can`t rate him too highly seeing as he constantly blogs stating Hamilton is the fastest man in F1 & Alonso the most complete. F1 is about luck & timing & he's taking full advantage, which is credit to him. I still won`t judge Vettel, like alot of people, until at least 2015/16, when hopefully he decides to take on a worthy team-mate in a non-newey car. Will he take that risk & challenge himself or put his reputation on the line is the big question. If he does, my respect for him will grow & then we will witness how `great` Vettel really is. That's how I see it.

Like I say, I rate Hamilton, but he's never raced a lowly car like Vettel has. As for Vettel pre-F1, well he was a child so lets not get too excited about that.

Alonso has a great and well cultivated reputation, yet he fled a rookie. Blackest of black marks.

[CaledonianCraig]

Vettels won a race in a Toro Rosso.

And Maldonado won a race in a Williams. So?

As for why Webber can't match Vettel I would say there is several reasons. Firstly, he is not and never has been one of the quickest drivers around. Consistent but unspectacular is how I'd describe him. Secondly, by his own admission for the last year or two he has fallen out of love with F1 and boy does it show. Thirdly, it is far harder to impress stuck in the main pack than if you start pole and nip off into the distance. Fourthly, even Vettel fans cannot deny Webber has had much worse luck than their man. Look at his seemingly endless KERS issues and other niggling faults. That being said Vettel if a far faster driver than Webber.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Think Vettel could win the next 5 world titles and he'd still be considered average by people on here

[GSC]

Vettels also wasn't a complete fluke, and wasn't the standout moment of an otherwise mediocre career

[CaledonianCraig]

Vettels also wasn't a complete fluke, and wasn't the standout moment of an otherwise mediocre career

I know. Likewise it wouldn't have been for Maldonado if he'd joined Red Bull but instead he is stuck in a Williams.

[bogbrush]

Vettels also wasn't a complete fluke, and wasn't the standout moment of an otherwise mediocre career

I know. Likewise it wouldn't have been for Maldonado if he'd joined Red Bull but instead he is stuck in a Williams.

Jeez Craig, read the mans post.

He's referring to Vettel BEFORE Red Bull.

[bogbrush]

Think Vettel could win the next 5 world titles and he'd still be considered average by people on here

Daniel Riccardo better stand by to be dismissed as utter cr@p next year, when Vettel leaves him standing.

Everything is fluid for these guys; only one thing is solid - Vettel is average.

[CaledonianCraig]

Vettels also wasn't a complete fluke, and wasn't the standout moment of an otherwise mediocre career

I know. Likewise it wouldn't have been for Maldonado if he'd joined Red Bull but instead he is stuck in a Williams.

Jeez Craig, read the mans post.

He's referring to Vettel BEFORE Red Bull.

And shall we look at Vettel before Red Bull? Okay then:-

Vettel at Torro Rosso and his big season there was 2008:- 1 Win and 35 Points scored. (Torro Rosso good enough to finish 6th in the Manufacturers Championship.)

Maldonado at Williams and his big season was 2012:- 1 Win and 45 Points scored. (Williams good enough to finish 8th in the Manufacturers Championship.)

[GSC]

You do realise the points system was changed to give far less points right. Maldonados win was over half his total. Vettels was less than a third.

I hope you do.

[CaledonianCraig]

The point here is that it proves that Vettel's season has happened for other drivers before at lesser teams and will happen again. Look at Di Resta for example (not lately) but he picked up many points finishes in a mid-division team and could list plenty of others but they never got (or have yet to get) a Red Bull-esque drive.

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