Aviva Premiership - Round 5 Preview

First topic message reminder :

Well we arrive at the last round before the short break for European matches with Dean Richards self-proclaimed "Top 3" ensconced at the top of the table, while Worcester are the only side yet to win a match:

Table:

Friday 4th October 2013

Sale v Bath 19:45 BT Sports
The round starts with 4th placed Bath facing a Sale team that have been a little bit Jekyl and Hyde this season. Neither side feature in the top Tier European tournament this season, so we can expect them to be naming the best available teams available to them. With Nick McLeod still injured we should expect the latest FH wunderkind, George Ford, to be facing up to a predecessor in Danny Cipriani. Gnarly Bath forwards like Paul James, Dave Attwood and Rob Webber have been in the press this week talking up ford's England potential and talking about how bossy and mature he is as he directs the game. You do wonder sometimes just how much respect the forwards Cips has played with have for him?
Bath have a high profile and very strong front 5, though there are injury worries in the second row - which could see MattGarvey moving from the back row to the position many want to see him play for England. There will also be injury concerns at Full Back, with Anthony Watson leaving early last week.
While Bath have the high profile forwards, the Sale pack are well drilled by Steve Diamond. They certainly have thw wherewithall to make life difficult for Bath.
On top form Bath should win. however if they are even an ounce away from that Sale will push them all the way and would be confident of sneaking the win that would move them even further away from the relegation worries.


Saturday 5th October 2013

London Irish v Harlequins 15:00
Perhaps the last thing a struggling London Irish team needed was the arrival of a wounded animal like the Harlequins. COS was already a touch defensive when asked about Deano's comments and defeat to Sarries will have hurt the whole team. Harlequins cannot afford to even think about the HEC, as defeat in Reading would probably see them move into the bottom half of the table.
So far this season, Quins have struggled to express themselves when they have been roughed up by the physical sides they have faced (Saints and Sarries). London Irish surely have to try and do the same - but I am not sure they have the players to do that. Instead they will be looking to keep the tempo high and let the game flow - usually something that plays right into Quins hands.
I am struggling to see LI getting much from this fixture.


Saracens v London Wasps 15:00
Sarries perfect start to the season was dented, but only slightly, as Quins deprived them of a TBP. This season Sarries have cranked up the physical side of their game (especially with the arrival of Billy Vunipola) but have also started to score tries. They seem to have realised that a strong defence only gets you so far. Will Sarries look at resting some key players before next weeks visit to Western Ireland? They may feel that in the pack they can afford to do so, but having been shocked by Wasps towards the end of last season they will want revenge.
Wasps fans will have been glad to see Elliot Daly playing again, but a little disheartened at Andy Goode's failings from the kicking tee. They surely cannot compete with Sarries up front, so will need to take every chance that comes there way. While goalkicking has been a worry, in Christian Wade they have a man who can create tries from nothing. the pace of Varndell is unlikely to be available on the other wing.
I suspect Sarries will secure another 5pt victory.


Worcester v Newcastle 15:00
While it is still too early in the season for this to be a relegation decider - Worcester simply cannot afford to enter the Euro-break with another defeat. Dean ryan has been talking up Chris Pennell this week and the least exotic member of the Warrior's backline has certainly been their standout performer so far this season. However it is unlikely to be the form of the full-backs that decides this bottom of the table encounter.
Neither side has looked capable of scoring lots of points this season, with just 37pts scored Falcons are the only side to have scored fewer points than the Warriors. This means that defence, discipline and precision will be key. As far as defence goes, Worcester are shipping 30pts per match. As to precision - well it seems that the Falcons hookers could not hit the proverbial barn door.
Worcester simply have to win, and that desire should just see them home.


Leicester v Northampton 15:15   BT Sports
As usual, the East Midlands derby will be on live TV. Saints travel to Welford Rd in good form, but on the back of a long losing streak to their neighbours. The first sell-out crowd will hope to see another intense and exciting match from these two "old friends". Before last season's final, I bemoaned the lack of passion in these fixtures since the Clark/Hawkins incident. That final however shattered any illusions that this is just another fixture. Richard Cockerill is still on the naughty step, as Paul Burke leads Tigers to what I hope will be another convincing win.
The scrum battle will be interesting, and from my seat in the stand I will also be concentrating on what happens to Flood after he has played the ball. He is a very brave young man, but is starting to look a little fragile as teams seek to rough him up. sometimes it is right on the limits of legality, other times players are going well beyond - but the intent is there - opposition are looking to hurt him. Following his 1 match ban following a red card on Monday, Ryan Lamb will be unable to make an appearance against his most recent former team. something Tigers fans will probably be pleased about.
shoudl be a titanic struggle - but I see no reason to believe that Tigers will not do well.




Sunday 6th October 2013

Gloucester v Exeter 14:00 BT Sports
Gloucester's woes in the front 5 continue with further injuries to key players and now a 4 week suspension for Koree Britton. England fans will be desperate to see Ben Morgan appear and play well, while I am hoping we may actually get a chance to see Kvesic playing at openside. Odd sare though that Kalamafoni will start at 8 and Kvesic will be the 6.
It took Exeter 20 minutes to start playing last Sunday - and that is always a bad idea against the champions. They had some high scoring matches against Glaws last season, and BT will be hoping it is a free flowing game after a couple of more physical showings on their new Sports channel. Exeter have the ability to win, and will surely get a rocket up the arse from rob Baxter. thing is though they were let down by basic skills in the second half last Sunday. so many opportunities wasted by an inability to pass to a man or catch the ball.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Bathman_in_London wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

beshocked wrote:Pack is strong? I suppose it depends who you compare it to.

I thought you said your lineout was appalling - surely that's an integral part of the set piece?


Yappysnap I heard that borthwick was upset he couldn't go this season to the oktoberfest - something about a press shoot for the HC.......

I am sure he went to the special one they had in London last month. (Oktoberfest in September - go figure).

My girls have an au pair from Sweden - who meets all the stereotypes (not sure how my ex-wife trusts her new bloke with her around). Any way she went to the London Oktoberfest in all the right gear, very skimpy lederhosen, blonde plaits etc (yes I do have pictures, courtesy of Daughter 1 ). Apparently she met some very nice professional rugby players.

Never mind the teams for this weekend, lets see the pictures!

+1

+2

LondonTiger wrote:

beshocked wrote:On the other hand it's difficult to keep everyone happy. E.g. look at Tigers losing Ford and 36.

They wanted first team rugby and they are getting that at Bath and Gloucester.

I feel that surely at some time Saracens will have to lose players they don't want to.

 

I guess the problem is with players who want to play for England but are not first choice. Jamie George, Will Fraser and even Owen Farrell may have been a little worried about their status. However they can probably be kept happy.

I still wish we had been able to keep Ford and 36, but they would still be backup players now to other EPS/Saxons squad members.

Sarries could be in a similar position to the Tigers soon though. When the likes of Farrell, Fraser, Tomkins, Barritt, Mako all have to re-sign a new contract, they will all demand way more than they are on now, as they've gone on to be England internationals. I assume Sarries have zero salary cap, so these players could be tempted elsewhere, especially if guaranteed a start.

LondonTiger wrote:

beshocked wrote:Pack is strong? I suppose it depends who you compare it to.

I thought you said your lineout was appalling - surely that's an integral part of the set piece?


Yappysnap I heard that borthwick was upset he couldn't go this season to the oktoberfest - something about a press shoot for the HC.......

I am sure he went to the special one they had in London last month. (Oktoberfest in September - go figure).

My girls have an au pair from Sweden - who meets all the stereotypes (not sure how my ex-wife trusts her new bloke with her around). Any way she went to the London Oktoberfest in all the right gear, very skimpy lederhosen, blonde plaits etc (yes I do have pictures, courtesy of Daughter 1 :D). Apparently she met some very nice professional rugby players.

Oktoberfest has always been in September, even in Munich

Very handy for Sale that Peel is back. Looking at the respective sides and home advantage I think Sale might sneak this one. Sale look to have the better backrow - Braid looked very good vs Saints. Easter and Seymour are also quite handy.

Two biggest clashes in all likelihood will be Stringer and Ford vs Peel and Cipriani.


I think London Irish could well shock Quins if they defend well. London Irish have shown with their points total that they can put some points on the board. In comparison Quins have defended well but haven't created much.

2nd worst tries conceded and highest points conceded but a higher try count than Quins,Sale,Exeter,Worcester,Newcastle and Gloucester for London Irish.


Should be a fascinating encounter.

beshocked wrote:Very handy for Sale that Peel is back. Looking at the respective sides and home advantage I think Sale might sneak this one. Sale look to have the better backrow - Braid looked very good vs Saints. Easter and Seymour are also quite handy.

Two biggest clashes in all likelihood will be Stringer and Ford vs Peel and Cipriani.

Looking forward to proving you wrong again on Friday! ;) Braid is class though, agreed

Braid would surely get more praise if he was at Leicester or similar, I've always rated Seymour too. As I said above, I've got a nasty feeling Sale might nick this.

From a Bath perspective, its nice to see 5 academy graduates in the squad, bringing them through has been an area of weakness in recent times. Also good to see Fearns back, him and Garvey would be a huge flank combo.

Bathite wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

beshocked wrote:On the other hand it's difficult to keep everyone happy. E.g. look at Tigers losing Ford and 36.

They wanted first team rugby and they are getting that at Bath and Gloucester.

I feel that surely at some time Saracens will have to lose players they don't want to.

 

I guess the problem is with players who want to play for England but are not first choice. Jamie George, Will Fraser and even Owen Farrell may have been a little worried about their status. However they can probably be kept happy.

I still wish we had been able to keep Ford and 36, but they would still be backup players now to other EPS/Saxons squad members.

Sarries could be in a similar position to the Tigers soon though. When the likes of Farrell, Fraser, Tomkins, Barritt, Mako all have to re-sign a new contract, they will all demand way more than they are on now, as they've gone on to be England internationals. I assume Sarries have zero salary cap, so these players could be tempted elsewhere, especially if guaranteed a start.

Very true Bathite. We'll have to see how that goes though players like Borthwick,De Kock and Joubert are going to retire quite soon I would expect.

Croft, Mafi, Tait, Benjamin and Manu all confirmed as missing this weekend by Cockers. Mafi being the only one we hoped might return. I expect an identical team to last week to be named.

Sam when does Cockerill finish his ban?

Poor Tait - the bloke puts in a good run of form for Tigers then gets injured again! Will Benjamin ever play for you?

Cockers will be back after the HEC games Beshocked. Though I hear some fans intend to be wearing Cockerill masks to the game on Saturday.

Tait had surgery on a bone spur on his ankle, should be back soon. Benjamin played in the A League (and scored on Monday) and will do so again on the coming Monday, he apparently just needs match fitness now.

We can expect to see both Tait and Benjamin as part of the warm-ups this week. We can expect to see Benjamin feature in the A-team again on monday and then in the LV fixtures, once match fit it opens up a whole new set of options - especially with Tait returning as well.

Still really worried about the visit to Belfast though.

London Irish team to face Harlequins:

15. Topsy Ojo*; 14. Marland Yarde*; 13.Fergus Mulchrone; 12. Eamonn Sheridan; 11. Alex Lewington; 10. Shane Geraghty*; 9. Tomás O’Leary*; 1. John Yapp*; 2. David Paice*; 3. Leo Halavatau; 4. George Skivington (Captain); 5. Kieran Low; 6. Blair Cowan; 7. Ofisa Treviranus*; 8. Chris Hala’ufia*

Replacements: 16. Jimmy Stevens; 17 Matt Parr; 18. Jamie Hagan*; 19.Ian Gough*; 20. Jebb Sinclair*; 21. Sailosi Tagicakibau* 22. Myles Dorrian; 23. Darren Allinson

Happy enough with that. Fairly beefy pack we have out there. If they can get on the front foot I fancy us.

Harlequins team

15. Mike Brown
14. Sam Smith
13. Matt Hopper
12. Tom Casson
11. Ugo Monye
10. Nick Evans
9. Karl Dickson

1. Joe Marler
2. Rob Buchanan
3. Will Collier
4. Nick Easter
5. George Robson
6. Maurie Fa'asavalu
7. Chris Robshaw (C)
8. Tom Guest

16. Dave Ward
17. Mark Lambert
18. Kyle Sinckler
19. George Merrick
20. Luke Wallace
21. Danny Care
22. Ben Botica
23. Charlie Walker

Danny Care rested rotated

Mark McCall has one eye on Europe:

1.Rhys Gill, 2. Jamie George, 3. James Johnston, 4. Alastair Hargreaves, 5. George Kruis, 6. Jackson Wray, 7. Will Fraser, 8. Ernst Joubert ©; 9. Neil de Kock, 10. Alex Goode; 11. Michael Tagicakibau, 12. Chris Wyles, 13. Joel Tomkins, 14. Chris Ashton; 15. Ben Ransom.
Replacements;
16. Schalk Brits, 17. Mako Vunipola, 18. Petrus Du Plessis, 19. Mouritz Botha, 20. Kelly Brown, 21. Richard Wigglesworth, 22. Owen Farrell, 23. David Strettle.

im reasonably confident too. like to think that we can match that quins pack. hopefully anyway. glad care is on the bench for Quins as he ruined us last season on both occasions.

As far as I can tell 7 changes in the pack, and 6 (including positional changes) in the backs

Wasps afflicted by injuries though:

London Wasps side to face Saracens
1 Matt Mullan
2 Carlo Festuccia
3 Jake Cooper-Woolley
4 Joe Launchbury
5 Kearnan Myall
6 Ed Jackson
7 Ashley Johnson
8 Nathan Hughes
9 Charlie Davies
10 Joe Carlisle
11 Josh Bassett
12 Charlie Hayter
13 Chris Bell (captain)
14 Christian Wade
15 Elliot Daly
Replacements
16 Tom Lindsay
17 Simon MIntyre
18 Will Taylor
19 James Cannon
20 Guy Thompson
21 Jack Moates
22 Andy Goode
23 Ben Jacobs

Worcester Warriors vs. Newcastle Falcons
15 Chris Pennell
14 Josh Drauniniu
13 Ravai Fatiaki
12 Josh Matavesi
11 David Lemi
10 Ignacio Mieres
9 Paul Hodgson

1 Jeremy Becasseau
2 Ed Shervington
3 Euan Murray
4 Mike Williams
5 Chris Jones
6 Jonathan Thomas (C)
7 Jake Abbott
8 Semisi Taulava

Replacements
16 Chris Brooker
17 George Porter
18 John Andress
19 Dean Schofield
20 Cam Goodhue
21 Jeremy Su'a
22 Paul Warwick
23 Alex Grove

Newcastle Falcons: 15 Alex Tait, 14 Noah Cato, 13 Adam Powell, 12 James Fitzpatrick, 11 Tom Catterick, 10 Rory Clegg, 9 Mike Blair, 1 Rob Vickers, 2 Matt Thompson, 3 Oliver Tomaszczyk, 4 Carlo del Fava, 5 Dom Barrow, 6 Mark Wilson, 7 Will Welch (c), 8 Ally Hogg

Replacements: 16 George McGuigan, 17 Franck Montanella, 18 Scott Wilson, 19 Sean Tomes, 20 Chris York, 21 Warren Fury, 22 Phil Godman, 23 Ryan Shortland



Rob Vickers at LH!!!!!!!!!

For me Worcester look appreciably stronger - with some talent on the bench.

15 Ben FODEN
14 Jamie ELLIOTT
13 George PISI
12 Luther BURRELL
11 George NORTH
10 Stephen MYLER
9 Lee DICKSON
1 Alex CORBISIERO
2 Dylan HARTLEY (capt)
3 Tom MERCEY
4 Samu MANOA
5 Courtney LAWES
6 Tom WOOD
7 Phil DOWSON
8 Sam DICKINSON

Replacements
16 Mike HAYWOOD
17 Alex WALLER
18 Gareth DENMAN
19 GJ VAN VELZE
20 Calum CLARK
21 Kahn FOTUALI’I
22 James WILSON
23 Ken PISI

Glaws team - just two backs on the bench?


Martyn Thomas; Charlie Sharples, Mike Tindall, Billy Twelvetrees, James Simpson-Daniel; Freddie Burns, Tavis Knoyle; Yann Thomas, Darren Dawidiuk, Rupert Harden; Tom Savage (capt), James Hudson; Sione Kalamafoni, Matt Kvesic, Ben Morgan

CHIEFS SIDE TO FACE GLOUCESTER 15 Phil Dollman 14 Matt Jess 13 Ian Whitten 12 Sam Hill 11 Tom James 10 Gareth Steenson 9 Dave Lewis 1 Brett Sturgess 2 Chris Whitehead 3 Hoani Tui 4 Dean Mumm (capt) 5 Damian Welch 6 Tom Johnson 7 Ben White 8 Dave Ewers 16 Jack Yeandle 17 Ben Moon 18 Carl Rimmer 19 Don Armand 20 Kai Horstmann 21 Haydn Thomas 22 Henry Slade 23 Fetu’u Vainikolo

Leicester Tigers (v Northampton Saints, Welford Road, Saturday 3.15pm)
15 Niall Morris
14 Blaine Scully
13 Vereniki Goneva
12 Anthony Allen
11 Adam Thompstone
10 Toby Flood (c)
9 Ben Youngs
1 Logovi'i Mulipola
2 Tom Youngs
3 Dan Cole
4 Louis Deacon
5 Graham Kitchener
6 Ed Slater
7 Julian Salvi
8 Jordan Crane

Replacements
16 Neil Briggs
17 Boris Stankovich
18 Fraser Balmain
19 Geoff Parling
20 Thomas Waldrom
21 David Mele
22 Owen Williams
23 Dan Bowden

Limited changes for tigers, as they cannot afford to rest anyone.

Kitchener steps up from the bench, swopping with Parling. Mele takes bench duties from Sam Harrison

Saracens Team to face London Wasps;
1.Rhys Gill, 2. Jamie George, 3. James Johnston, 4. Alastair Hargreaves, 5. George Kruis, 6. Jackson Wray, 7. Will Fraser, 8. Ernst Joubert ©; 9. Neil de Kock, 10. Alex Goode; 11. Michael Tagicakibau, 12. Chris Wyles, 13. Joel Tomkins, 14. Chris Ashton; 15. Ben Ransom.
Replacements;
16. Schalk Brits, 17. Mako Vunipola, 18. Petrus Du Plessis, 19. Mouritz Botha, 20. Kelly Brown, 21. Richard Wigglesworth, 22. Owen Farrell, 23. David Strettle.


One of the most interesting Saracens line ups I have seen for some time! Goode at 10 and utility maestro Wyles at 12.

Love the look of the pack. Nice to see quite a few of the academy boys like Ransom,George and Wray getting a run out.

6 of the 15 came from the academy.

Bench is strong too.

As I said when I posted the team earlier looks like McCall has one eye on Europe. I may have miscounted but with positional changes I make that 13 changes from last week for Sarries.

Not sure why Deanos persuing this experiment of Vickers at LH. Montanella has been quality in the games he's played.

Fitzy continues at 12. Curious how he couldnt buy a game in the championship yet suddenly is starting 12 in the prem...he did have a good game last run out mind...

EDIT: And i really dont think this game is one we should be experimenting in...surely this is one we should be going all guns blazing to win!

Cant work Deano out sometimes....

Sorry Londontiger I didn't see that until after I posted.

An injury ravaged Wasps side at home is as good as any to give some guys a week off.

Good opportunity to give some players much needed game time.

The biggest changes are 10 and 12.

I like the look of the team. Plus there is plenty of support on the bench if they are needed.

LondonTiger wrote:As I said when I posted the team earlier ;)looks like McCall has one eye on Europe. I may have miscounted but with positional changes I make that 13 changes from last week for Sarries.

Resting rotation, I'm sure

LondonTiger wrote:CHIEFS SIDE TO FACE GLOUCESTER 15 Phil Dollman 14 Matt Jess 13 Ian Whitten 12 Sam Hill 11 Tom James 10 Gareth Steenson 9 Dave Lewis 1 Brett Sturgess 2 Chris Whitehead 3 Hoani Tui 4 Dean Mumm (capt) 5 Damian Welch 6 Tom Johnson 7 Ben White 8 Dave Ewers 16 Jack Yeandle 17 Ben Moon 18 Carl Rimmer 19 Don Armand 20 Kai Horstmann 21 Haydn Thomas 22 Henry Slade 23 Fetu’u Vainikolo

Looks like Jason Shoemark and James Scaysbrook are the two main casualties from last week's defeat to Tigers - no place on the bench for either. First time to see new signings Don Armand and Fetu'u Vainikolo in Chiefs colours

Can't wait for this game now. Am working tonight, hopefully finish on time at 7 tomorrow morning, home and in bed by 8, then up at 1 to head to the MadStad.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:As I said when I posted the team earlier ;)looks like McCall has one eye on Europe. I may have miscounted but with positional changes I make that 13 changes from last week for Sarries.

Resting rotation, I'm sure

To be fair, that Sarries team should still win fairly comfortably.

Things look very different at Welford Rd, where both sides are about as full strength as injuries will allow.

Mind you I see the fixtures secretary in the Pro12 has dealt Munster/Leinster a bad hand - with the pair meeting this weekend and like the East Midlands derby at full available strength.

Munster and Leinster always meet the week before a European fixture. They like it that way as they rest players before and then use this to get battle hardened and be at the right intensity for next week.

Interesting Quins team Obviously resting Williams and Lowe as well as Care. I'm a little surprised NEV is starting too as I'd have thought he'd get rested. Really hoping we give Botica a lot more gametime.

I'm a little worried now, the pack just doesn't look right and might struggle to get us good ball.

yappysnap wrote:Interesting Quins team Obviously resting rotating Williams and Lowe as well as Care. I'm a little surprised NEV is starting too as I'd have thought he'd get rested. Really hoping we give Botica a lot more gametime.

I'm a little worried now, the pack just doesn't look right and might struggle to get us good ball.

Erm, young Mr Yappster, pls stick with the agreed language!!

Going to be watching the Tigers vs Saints game on record as I'm playing in my first league game of the season and then we are our celebrating our win/commiserating each other over our loss. Not sure how I'm going to avoid the score for that long. Not sure the wife will appreciate a half cut, AP on record watch at 3am again either.

Looking forward to it, so many match ups that draw the eye. In particular Allen vs Burrell with England midfield shirts on offer that's a big match up. Youngs vs Hartley will be one not for the faint hearted.

Agree about the match-ups. We have good ones all across the pitch. So many good story lines, too. Makes for great sport.

I agree about Allen-Burrell. Since they offer something a bit different from each other, it makes it even more compelling. I also think the halfback match-up is also going to be good. Flood is clearly far ahead of Myler, but it will be interesting to see how Stevie gets on.

A couple of knock-ons but Cipriani is playing really well.

Speaking of half backs, Cips is having a good game. Big try saving tackle on a marauding Bath flanker, kicking intelligent and a big miss pass for a try. Not perfect but so much more committed and consistent play from him.

Bath are being given the run around at the breakdown by Bath. Some big breaks off the back of the scrum by Easter as well, Bath's flankers must get off the scrum and cut him down.

Is it just me who thinks Eastmond and Joseph have been invisible so far?

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Interesting Quins team Obviously resting rotating Williams and Lowe as well as Care. I'm a little surprised NEV is starting too as I'd have thought he'd get rested. Really hoping we give Botica a lot more gametime.

I'm a little worried now, the pack just doesn't look right and might struggle to get us good ball.

Erm, young Mr Yappster, pls stick with the agreed language!!

Lowe was concussed last week, think he can't play this week due to protocol

stnick88 wrote:im reasonably confident too. like to think that we can match that quins pack. hopefully anyway. glad care is on the bench for Quins as he ruined us last season on both occasions.

He will just have to do it from the bench now

Good decision that,  Joseph threw himself down like a footballer. Don't like to see it.  

Are Cips and JOC the same person, out of interest?

Ford needs to control the brain farts from the kicking tee if he wants to overtake the other contenders for the England jersey.

Sadly looking like I won't prove be shocked right, we've lost the breakdown tonight. Stringer really p issuing me off with his winging!

beshocked wrote:Is it just me who thinks Eastmond and Joseph have been invisible so far?

Eastmond played at first receiver a lot and been solid. Joseph been poor, butchered overlap in left hand corner earlier

Well played sale. Deserved the win, but we've had enough time in their 22 and goal kicks to win it. Not good enough.