Aviva Premiership - Round 5 Preview

First topic message reminder :

Well we arrive at the last round before the short break for European matches with Dean Richards self-proclaimed "Top 3" ensconced at the top of the table, while Worcester are the only side yet to win a match:

Table:

Friday 4th October 2013

Sale v Bath 19:45 BT Sports
The round starts with 4th placed Bath facing a Sale team that have been a little bit Jekyl and Hyde this season. Neither side feature in the top Tier European tournament this season, so we can expect them to be naming the best available teams available to them. With Nick McLeod still injured we should expect the latest FH wunderkind, George Ford, to be facing up to a predecessor in Danny Cipriani. Gnarly Bath forwards like Paul James, Dave Attwood and Rob Webber have been in the press this week talking up ford's England potential and talking about how bossy and mature he is as he directs the game. You do wonder sometimes just how much respect the forwards Cips has played with have for him?
Bath have a high profile and very strong front 5, though there are injury worries in the second row - which could see MattGarvey moving from the back row to the position many want to see him play for England. There will also be injury concerns at Full Back, with Anthony Watson leaving early last week.
While Bath have the high profile forwards, the Sale pack are well drilled by Steve Diamond. They certainly have thw wherewithall to make life difficult for Bath.
On top form Bath should win. however if they are even an ounce away from that Sale will push them all the way and would be confident of sneaking the win that would move them even further away from the relegation worries.


Saturday 5th October 2013

London Irish v Harlequins 15:00
Perhaps the last thing a struggling London Irish team needed was the arrival of a wounded animal like the Harlequins. COS was already a touch defensive when asked about Deano's comments and defeat to Sarries will have hurt the whole team. Harlequins cannot afford to even think about the HEC, as defeat in Reading would probably see them move into the bottom half of the table.
So far this season, Quins have struggled to express themselves when they have been roughed up by the physical sides they have faced (Saints and Sarries). London Irish surely have to try and do the same - but I am not sure they have the players to do that. Instead they will be looking to keep the tempo high and let the game flow - usually something that plays right into Quins hands.
I am struggling to see LI getting much from this fixture.


Saracens v London Wasps 15:00
Sarries perfect start to the season was dented, but only slightly, as Quins deprived them of a TBP. This season Sarries have cranked up the physical side of their game (especially with the arrival of Billy Vunipola) but have also started to score tries. They seem to have realised that a strong defence only gets you so far. Will Sarries look at resting some key players before next weeks visit to Western Ireland? They may feel that in the pack they can afford to do so, but having been shocked by Wasps towards the end of last season they will want revenge.
Wasps fans will have been glad to see Elliot Daly playing again, but a little disheartened at Andy Goode's failings from the kicking tee. They surely cannot compete with Sarries up front, so will need to take every chance that comes there way. While goalkicking has been a worry, in Christian Wade they have a man who can create tries from nothing. the pace of Varndell is unlikely to be available on the other wing.
I suspect Sarries will secure another 5pt victory.


Worcester v Newcastle 15:00
While it is still too early in the season for this to be a relegation decider - Worcester simply cannot afford to enter the Euro-break with another defeat. Dean ryan has been talking up Chris Pennell this week and the least exotic member of the Warrior's backline has certainly been their standout performer so far this season. However it is unlikely to be the form of the full-backs that decides this bottom of the table encounter.
Neither side has looked capable of scoring lots of points this season, with just 37pts scored Falcons are the only side to have scored fewer points than the Warriors. This means that defence, discipline and precision will be key. As far as defence goes, Worcester are shipping 30pts per match. As to precision - well it seems that the Falcons hookers could not hit the proverbial barn door.
Worcester simply have to win, and that desire should just see them home.


Leicester v Northampton 15:15   BT Sports
As usual, the East Midlands derby will be on live TV. Saints travel to Welford Rd in good form, but on the back of a long losing streak to their neighbours. The first sell-out crowd will hope to see another intense and exciting match from these two "old friends". Before last season's final, I bemoaned the lack of passion in these fixtures since the Clark/Hawkins incident. That final however shattered any illusions that this is just another fixture. Richard Cockerill is still on the naughty step, as Paul Burke leads Tigers to what I hope will be another convincing win.
The scrum battle will be interesting, and from my seat in the stand I will also be concentrating on what happens to Flood after he has played the ball. He is a very brave young man, but is starting to look a little fragile as teams seek to rough him up. sometimes it is right on the limits of legality, other times players are going well beyond - but the intent is there - opposition are looking to hurt him. Following his 1 match ban following a red card on Monday, Ryan Lamb will be unable to make an appearance against his most recent former team. something Tigers fans will probably be pleased about.
shoudl be a titanic struggle - but I see no reason to believe that Tigers will not do well.




Sunday 6th October 2013

Gloucester v Exeter 14:00 BT Sports
Gloucester's woes in the front 5 continue with further injuries to key players and now a 4 week suspension for Koree Britton. England fans will be desperate to see Ben Morgan appear and play well, while I am hoping we may actually get a chance to see Kvesic playing at openside. Odd sare though that Kalamafoni will start at 8 and Kvesic will be the 6.
It took Exeter 20 minutes to start playing last Sunday - and that is always a bad idea against the champions. They had some high scoring matches against Glaws last season, and BT will be hoping it is a free flowing game after a couple of more physical showings on their new Sports channel. Exeter have the ability to win, and will surely get a rocket up the arse from rob Baxter. thing is though they were let down by basic skills in the second half last Sunday. so many opportunities wasted by an inability to pass to a man or catch the ball.

Bathite wrote:Well played sale. Deserved the win, but we've had enough time in their 22 and goal kicks to win it. Not good enough.

I'll 2nd that, well played Sale you were simple up for it more than Bath.

We missed Attwood, Webber and Banahan tonight.

Threw far too much to front jumper tonight. Very safe option, but without the bulk in the pack, sale outmaulled us by not competing. Slowed up attackin ball and didn't create space out wide, good tactics from them, no variation from us

http://www.premiershiprugby.com/news/29175.php#.Uk858TK9KK1

They are still doing some FTA games anyway. Big games too

Ford and Eastmond looked alright but with no quick ball to work with, due to their forwards being mullered at the breakdown, they didn't have much to work with. Biggs looks disinterested, is he off at the end of the season? I had heard the rumours of him going to League. Devoto isn't a fullback but I understand there was little option.

Sale were a cohesive team that had a reliable set piece and a tactical kicking game that work. At no point were they looking capable of setting the world alight but they were workmanlike and efficient and are no longer easy to break down. If they can inject some spark into that backline and keep all 8 forwards on the pitch for 80 mins they could be a real threat.

HammerofThunor wrote:http://www.premiershiprugby.com/news/29175.php#.Uk858TK9KK1

They are still doing some FTA games anyway. Big games too

Probably needs it's own thread - you know for those posters who continue to insist that BR/PRL lied when they said there would be free to air matches.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Interesting Quins team Obviously resting rotating Williams and Lowe as well as Care. I'm a little surprised NEV is starting too as I'd have thought he'd get rested. Really hoping we give Botica a lot more gametime.

I'm a little worried now, the pack just doesn't look right and might struggle to get us good ball.

Erm, young Mr Yappster, pls stick with the agreed language!!

Of course,of course, take it as read that all mention of resting in this league means rotation... We are after all a far tougher league without a single rest in there.

I was pleasantly surprised with Cipriani's game yesterday. Even when he was playing well in the past, a controlled, tight performance was not his style. I was very surprised Sale took that approach with him in the pivot and more so that he executed the plan so well. Was certainly a good sign for him and for Sale.

Bathite wrote:Threw far too much to front jumper tonight. Very safe option, but without the bulk in the pack, sale outmaulled us by not competing. Slowed up attackin ball and didn't create space out wide, good tactics from them, no variation from us

Despite all the criticism Diamond gets (rightly in the sense of him being a tool) I think this was a good example of his ability as a forward's coach. Gold did some decent stuff at Falcons, but i suspect that was partly players responding to a new coach, I just don't think he's up to much. That Bath pack should have had far too much for Sale's small pack

I would say that no matter what you think of Diamond as a person he's probably one of the smartest forward coaches in the Prem. His ability to get the Sale pack to play so well to their strengths and hide their weaknesses is amazing.

Perhaps in a season or two we'll see him coaching the England Saxons boys.

Gold has done a heck of a lot for Bath. Your style of play has been a lot better these first games. A lot will now be down to the players on the pitch and how well they adapt and keep working hard.

Welford rd and surrounds heaving

Big matches today. Hope that we exorcise all our frustrations vs Irish, need to be in good nick vs Scarlets next week

LondonTiger wrote:Welford rd and surrounds heaving

Wish I was there today. These kinds of matches are special.

yappysnap wrote:I would say that no matter what you think of Diamond as a person he's probably one of the smartest forward coaches in the Prem. His ability to get the Sale pack to play so well to their strengths and hide their weaknesses is amazing.

Perhaps in a season or two we'll see him coaching the England Saxons boys.

Gold has done a heck of a lot for Bath. Your style of play has been a lot better these first games. A lot will now be down to the players on the pitch and how well they adapt and keep working hard.

Sorry, should say I'm a Falcons fan if you were responding to me. I'm not sure Gold has when you compare him to Meehan. He has a MASSIVE pack, pretty well drilled in the scrum but technically where else have they improved? Their rucking is poorer than Sale's, less aggressive, more upright (fair enough their players are big lumps but still). Despite having some big carriers now they are less effective because the off-loading game Meehan developed has been completely dismantled. There is little visible interaction between forwards and backs etc etc.

Gold has done a good job bringing players in, I can't see anything else he's brought to Bath.

Absolutely ridiculous yellow for Barrell.

I love regional radio rugby coverage, it's so hilariously biased!

Or the equally histrionic Quins Twitter Feed...

SLoppy fist half
Burrell behaving like a petulant bully with off the ball stuff
Always targeting the smallest man he can find
Crowd in good voice
Especially the saints minority a good bunch

Tigers attack hasn't even got moving yet. But they are competing well. Tigers need to starting making ground or they aren't going to win this.

I'm so Frak peed off

Falcons get a vital win away at Worcester.  

I'm in wales so couldn't watch the game, can anyone tell me how the saints tigers game went?

Yet again Wasps outscore a team on tries but lose.

9-19 nathan.

Well that was a lucky draw for us. Only played in the last quarter

Sorry nathan - the '1' didn't type. 19-19 at Welford Road.

Bloody hell what a finish at Welford Road! Tigers not in it for 65 minutes, but very nearly sneaked it. Still looking for an 80 minute performance. Saints will be gutted.

Injuries starting to rack up for England though. Burrell looks like he has screwed his arm/shoulder, and Robshaw went off apparently. Could be a very interesting England team for the AI's.

IRISH  IRISH  IRISH  

What a game. The atmosphere at the MadStad was electric today. David Rose had an absolute shocker. Both sets of fans in the area that I was sitting were utterly bemused by most of his decisions today.

Cheers guys, I'll have a Guinness in wales to celebrate not losing but drawing.

Enjoy. Though I would be tempted by some of the excellent beers from some of the smaller Welsh breweries like Tomos Watkins or Purple Moose.

None of those are available in this pub according to the bar man. Why are hotels in wales so bad! £90 a night and we have bunk beds! Lol

Bunk beds...in a hotel!!

Anyway, congrats to the winners today and commiserations to the losers.

Just when I thought Saints might be transcending their quirks from previous seasons, they do it again today.  One of the big gaps in the Saints psyche has been going flat for periods of time and not holding leads.  This happened again today.  

Now granted, today was against one of the most clutch and hard-nosed clubs in memory, but still.  Very frustrating.  Saints will end up taking nothing from a match in Welford Road when a draw might have been considered well-done before kick-off.  10 points and 10 minutes between clubs pretty close in talent is not acceptable.  

Obviously, this was a great job by a club who knows exactly what it takes to pull out these kinds of matches.  And both squads had other opportunities.  But this is something Saints will need to learn, and Leicester is the club to learn it from.

Until today the loudest stadium I have been in was MS, HEC final Munster v Biarritz. Todays game beat that, and the last 10 minutes was louder than a Motorhead Concert.

We got out of jail as for so much of the game Saints offered the power, pace and invention. As usual we tackled for our life - and some of Tom Youngs hits on George North's calves were truly brutal.

Jordan Crane made more mistakes, I reckon, in this match than in the whole of last season. His control at the base of the scrum, and area we dominated was woeful.

I thought JP Doyle did pretty well, but got no help from his TJs. At times we expect refs to see everything, but they cannot and need help from their assistants. I assume Burrell was sinbinned on recommendation of the TMO? (we have no big screen). Can anyone tell me why Deacon and Lawes got yellows?


As to England - I thought Flood was poor, BYoungs average. On the plus side Tom Wood was often prominent, Tom Youngs was excellent and showed some gret strikes in the scrum - did better than Hartley I felt and Cole and Corbs had a great battle, with the LEicester man gaining the ascendancy but Corbs the try. Did not see much of Foden.

Burrell was yellowed on JP Doyle on his own. He asked the TMO where he landed (looking for red IMO). It was ridiculous. Not even a dangerous tackle.

Lawes was yellowed for not rolling away in the tackle and Deacon was yellowed for running over and screaming at Doyle to card him.

Ozzy3213 wrote:London Irish team to face Harlequins:

15. Topsy Ojo*; 14. Marland Yarde*; 13.Fergus Mulchrone; 12. Eamonn Sheridan; 11. Alex Lewington; 10. Shane Geraghty*; 9. Tomás O’Leary*; 1. John Yapp*; 2. David Paice*; 3. Leo Halavatau; 4. George Skivington (Captain); 5. Kieran Low; 6. Blair Cowan; 7. Ofisa Treviranus*; 8. Chris Hala’ufia*

Replacements: 16. Jimmy Stevens; 17 Matt Parr; 18. Jamie Hagan*; 19.Ian Gough*; 20. Jebb Sinclair*; 21. Sailosi Tagicakibau* 22. Myles Dorrian; 23. Darren Allinson

Happy enough with that. Fairly beefy pack we have out there. If they can get on the front foot I fancy us.

 
And so it came to pass, even with the loss of Hala'ufia pre match and then Kieran Low after to rib injury 2 minutes in.  Skivs, Gough and Cowan were all absolutely immense out there.

So fans yesterday got a free Cockerill mask with their programme.

Amusing little jape or a mockery of the disciplinary system ?

I don't see a problem with it to be honest LT, it would be pretty funny actually.

I found it amusing, and there were plenty of Saints fans wearing them as the teams ran out, so seemed to be taken in the right spirit.

However my viewpoint is not impartial.

Any way Glaws/Exeter about to start. Hoping for a good match and big games from EPS members.

Ozzy3213 wrote:IRISH  IRISH  IRISH  

What a game.  The atmosphere at the MadStad was electric today.  David Rose had an absolute shocker.  Both sets of fans in the area that I was sitting were utterly bemused by most of his decisions today.

I've never seen Rose have a good game, awful ref.

The only way to play him is to hope his incompetence is spread between the teams.

It was, although first half it did appear that he was only reffing us. Quins got away with murder, but sort of evened out when he failed to yellow card Skivs for a cynical pull back on Danny Care as he took a quick tap. That said, Dickson should have had a yellow or possibly even red for a stamp in the first two minutes, where we were given a penalty and all he got was a talking to.

I've just switched on and found Exeter leading Gloucester 5-16 early in the second half.

The Glaws front 5 just can't secure enough ball. Exe dominating possession and are battering through a flimsy Glaws defence.

Dave Ewers is some player, been swatting Gloucester defenders off all game

To me, he seems like a dark horse for the Saxons (assuming he'd accept the call of course).

I don't see why not Cumbrian, he's completely outplayed Morgan

5-23 now. Exe lethal from a yard out.

Glos absolutely butchered about a hundred man overlap there because 36 threw a Hollywood pass.  Good thing Jonny May was able to pick a good line in the resulting play

And Glaws hit back immediately. 12-23.

Ozzy3213 wrote:It was, although first half it did appear that he was only reffing us.  Quins got away with murder, but sort of evened out when he failed to yellow card Skivs for a cynical pull back on Danny Care as he took a quick tap.  That said, Dickson should have had a yellow or possibly even red for a stamp in the first two minutes, where we were given a penalty and all he got was a talking to.

Agreed that we got some calls but he also invented knock one for both sides, gave you a lineout that was blatantly ours to the extent that the London Irish player on the radio commentary thought it was dubious and yeah, was generally terrible. Kind of like we were.