Lux said the RFU had promised him it would not support a new tournament

Jean Pierre Lux says the RFU will not support a new tournament.

"I went to a meeting last week where the chief executive of the RFU Ian Ritchie and the president Bill Beaumont clearly said they had told their clubs there would be no new competition. All the federations hope that ERC continues to run the [European] competitions."


http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/sep/17/heineken-cup-rugby-union-world-cup

MM, there is a new statement on the Eastern Fail NOW, from RRW showing the Dodger how to go about things, in the same article Bruce Craig refutes your OP, YOU would obviously rather believe Lux, I think most sensible people would not, by the looks of it you have managed to get rid of 2 of the most sensible posters on this Forum within 24 hours.

Sorry Wayne but in that article Craig says no such thing

As I said on a different thread someone is going to look very stupid, be it mccafferty and the PRL or Lux and the erc. So many conflicting statements. If lux is right however (and I have no reason to believe he is) then the RCC is dead in the water

geoff999rugby wrote:Sorry Wayne but in that article Craig says no such thing

Sorry Geoff, what part of the 4th paragraph below the Dodger spinning a ball, where it says Craig claims the RFU has given its backing to the new event don't you understand and is in direct opposition to what Lux is supposed to have said and is quoted in MM article

I read that Wayne which is why someone is going to look very stupid. Craig then qualifies it by saying "they can't not with the RWC in 2015".

That qualification in the next sentence is either bad journalism or means he is supposing. I don't know.

wayne wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Sorry Wayne but in that article Craig says no such thing

Sorry Geoff, what part of the 4th paragraph below the Dodger spinning a ball, where it says Craig claims the RFU has given its backing to the new event don't you understand and is in direct opposition to what Lux is supposed to have said and is quoted in MM article

Bruce Craig's comments are almost a week old and yes they certainly contradict both what Lux and RWW are saying. I definitely would prefer that Lux's comments are both true and to take effect for the good of the game as a whole worldwide.

We have little knowledge of what the RFU will do this is a possible rare insight. I know Bill Beaumont said last year that he was trying to talk to club owners, we have heard little more on his progress since.

As pointed out in the RRW statement the quandary caused by the PRL is unfairly effecting us all and the RFUs silence is not assisting the matter.

I would believe that the RFU will side with the other unions and IRB on this and not with the PRL. If they don't, I believe the consequences will be disastrous for rugby worldwide.

Can I also add that there is a new message on the Ospreys Forum that the 4 Welsh Regions are leaving the auspices of the WRU very soon.
If anybody can go on that site and download it here I would much appreciate it as I'm an old fogie (sp) and cannot do it, it was supposedly picked up on Twitter, it is a very interesting read I think it would interest many on here. Thanks

The Ospreys and the other regions have not said they are leaving the WRU on the ospreys forum or on their website.

Andrew Hore was present at the RRW meeting earlier today where they agreed to be happy to let the WRU sort this out for them.

Wayne if you can use one forum surely you can use another...?

Standulstermen wrote:As I said on a different thread someone is going to look very stupid, be it mccafferty and the PRL or Lux and the erc. So many conflicting statements. If lux is right however (and I have no reason to believe he is) then the RCC is dead in the water

Someone? Mate, when this is over half of everyone in our islands and in France will look stupid. The other half will look constipated.

maestegmafia wrote:

wayne wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Sorry Wayne but in that article Craig says no such thing

Sorry Geoff, what part of the 4th paragraph below the Dodger spinning a ball, where it says Craig claims the RFU has given its backing to the new event don't you understand and is in direct opposition to what Lux is supposed to have said and is quoted in MM article

Bruce Craig's comments are almost a week old and yes they certainly contradict both what Lux and RWW are saying. I definitely would prefer that Lux's comments are both true and to take effect for the good of the game as a whole worldwide.

We have little knowledge of what the RFU will do this is a possible rare insight. I know Bill Beaumont said last year that he was trying to talk to club owners, we have heard little more on his progress since.

As pointed out in the RRW statement the quandary caused by the PRL is unfairly effecting us all and the RFUs silence is not assisting the matter.

I would believe that the RFU will side with the other unions and IRB on this and not with the PRL. If they don't, I believe the consequences will be disastrous for rugby worldwide.

Would you care to expand on your reasoning for this apocalyptic scenario?

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:
Would you care to expand on your reasoning for this apocalyptic scenario?

Does it need to be said again? The same point has been made by many many posters on several threads.

maestegmafia wrote:

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:
Would you care to expand on your reasoning for this apocalyptic scenario?

Does it need to be said again? The same point has been made by many many posters on several threads.

I'm interested in your reeasoning - indulge me. For example, how is Georgian Rugby going to implode?

doctor_grey wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:As I said on a different thread someone is going to look very stupid, be it mccafferty and the PRL or Lux and the erc. So many conflicting statements. If lux is right however (and I have no reason to believe he is) then the RCC is dead in the water

Someone?  Mate, when this is over half of everyone in our islands and in France will look stupid.  The other half will look constipated.  

You have no reason to believe he is not either.

Of those who have been recently vocal in the press there are those who will re-coup/make a great deal of personal wealth out of the BT money on offer.

Then there are those that will not. I am inclined to trust those not influenced by potential earnings as being more genuine than the other that seeks to gain a lot of cash.

Well Maes, that put us on very different sides in this case.  I trust none of these people.  I understand why you want to, but I don't get it. This is a high stakes and emotional business negotiation.  Trust nobody.  

In fact the only group who seems to be talking sense at this moment is the RRW in this portion of their press release:  

RRW wrote:"The Welsh regions are united in their view that the PRGB, which the WRU has established, is the right forum for these issues to be discussed and worked through professionally under an independent chairman.

“Our views and contributions as regions will be given fully and clearly at these meetings.

“Until there is any agreed detail to release on the topics currently being discussed, we will continue to maintain our position that we wish to conduct our conversations and give our views in private, as laid out by PRGB policies.”

 Clearly the only people talking with cool(er) heads at the moment.  Though to be fair, their whole press release was hardly a ringing endorsement of the WRU.  

Mate. amongst things people treasure most is not always money.  Rather entrenched positions and functionaries.  Lux is one of the old guard, as entrenched as one can be and most likely happy with the status quo.  The status quo protects his position.  Has anyone come out to agree with his assertion?  Probably won't either.

To my sides article I have to add the old guard left over from the amateur era (in terms critical of the RFU, we call them the the Suits or the Blazers).  And I have to add the new, younger owners and admins.  Actually, these might be the biggest adversaries of all.  Action v. Reaction. Old v. New.

Irrespective of what happens regarding the survival/destruction of the ERC I think it's pretty much guaranteed that Lux is going to be out of a job sooner rather than later and he's unlikely to shy away from constructing comments that might complicate things for those that facilitated his downfall.

maestegmafia wrote:The Ospreys and the other regions have not said they are leaving the WRU on the ospreys forum or on their website.

Andrew Hore was present at the RRW meeting earlier today where they agreed to be happy to let the WRU sort this out for them.

Wayne if you can use one forum surely you can use another...?

MM, obviously it is not on the Ospreys website as they said in their statement, it will only be discussed at the PRGB meeting on Saturday, it is on the Forum, put there by Rich from Bristol, it was a copy of a French translation of Craigs twitter to somebody in France.
I can use many forums, but sorry I do not know how to download a link, in order to download an article onto another Forum
As for Andrew Hore being at the meeting, perhaps he was, maybe not, this is just the preamble before the fireworks, obviously the RRW contacted Craig, who used his Twitter account to contact somebody in France which was picked up by a third party, OR it could all be a negotiating ploy

wayne wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:The Ospreys and the other regions have not said they are leaving the WRU on the ospreys forum or on their website.

Andrew Hore was present at the RRW meeting earlier today where they agreed to be happy to let the WRU sort this out for them.

Wayne if you can use one forum surely you can use another...?

MM, obviously it is not on the Ospreys website as they said in their statement, it will only be discussed at the PRGB meeting on Saturday, it is on the Forum, put there by Rich from Bristol, it was a copy of a French translation of Craigs twitter to somebody in France.
I can use many forums, but sorry I do not know how to download a link, in order to download an article onto another Forum
As for Andrew Hore being at the meeting, perhaps he was, maybe not, this is just the preamble before the fireworks, obviously the RRW contacted Craig, who used his Twitter account to contact somebody in France which was picked up by a third party, OR it could all be a negotiating ploy    

Sounds incredibly unlikely and a little far fetched mate...

Surely it can't be so hard to copy and paste the text???

Wayne do us a favour when you quote other text please provide a link.

Thats what threw me at the beginning.
Very hard to debate when someone makes reference to something others do not

Thanks

maestegmafia wrote:

wayne wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:The Ospreys and the other regions have not said they are leaving the WRU on the ospreys forum or on their website.

Andrew Hore was present at the RRW meeting earlier today where they agreed to be happy to let the WRU sort this out for them.

Wayne if you can use one forum surely you can use another...?

MM, obviously it is not on the Ospreys website as they said in their statement, it will only be discussed at the PRGB meeting on Saturday, it is on the Forum, put there by Rich from Bristol, it was a copy of a French translation of Craigs twitter to somebody in France.
I can use many forums, but sorry I do not know how to download a link, in order to download an article onto another Forum
As for Andrew Hore being at the meeting, perhaps he was, maybe not, this is just the preamble before the fireworks, obviously the RRW contacted Craig, who used his Twitter account to contact somebody in France which was picked up by a third party, OR it could all be a negotiating ploy    

Sounds incredibly unlikely and a little far fetched mate...

Surely it can't be so hard to copy and paste the text???

Why don't you teach him Maes, your the master at it. Although your a little selective in what you copy/paste so i might have to teach you on the old select all trick...

nathan wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

wayne wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:The Ospreys and the other regions have not said they are leaving the WRU on the ospreys forum or on their website.

Andrew Hore was present at the RRW meeting earlier today where they agreed to be happy to let the WRU sort this out for them.

Wayne if you can use one forum surely you can use another...?

MM, obviously it is not on the Ospreys website as they said in their statement, it will only be discussed at the PRGB meeting on Saturday, it is on the Forum, put there by Rich from Bristol, it was a copy of a French translation of Craigs twitter to somebody in France.
I can use many forums, but sorry I do not know how to download a link, in order to download an article onto another Forum
As for Andrew Hore being at the meeting, perhaps he was, maybe not, this is just the preamble before the fireworks, obviously the RRW contacted Craig, who used his Twitter account to contact somebody in France which was picked up by a third party, OR it could all be a negotiating ploy    

Sounds incredibly unlikely and a little far fetched mate...

Surely it can't be so hard to copy and paste the text???

Why don't you teach him Maes, your the master at it. Although your a little selective in what you copy/paste so i might have to teach you on the old select all trick...

Nathan quit trolling..!

maestegmafia wrote:

nathan wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

wayne wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:The Ospreys and the other regions have not said they are leaving the WRU on the ospreys forum or on their website.

Andrew Hore was present at the RRW meeting earlier today where they agreed to be happy to let the WRU sort this out for them.

Wayne if you can use one forum surely you can use another...?

MM, obviously it is not on the Ospreys website as they said in their statement, it will only be discussed at the PRGB meeting on Saturday, it is on the Forum, put there by Rich from Bristol, it was a copy of a French translation of Craigs twitter to somebody in France.
I can use many forums, but sorry I do not know how to download a link, in order to download an article onto another Forum
As for Andrew Hore being at the meeting, perhaps he was, maybe not, this is just the preamble before the fireworks, obviously the RRW contacted Craig, who used his Twitter account to contact somebody in France which was picked up by a third party, OR it could all be a negotiating ploy    

Sounds incredibly unlikely and a little far fetched mate...

Surely it can't be so hard to copy and paste the text???

Why don't you teach him Maes, your the master at it. Although your a little selective in what you copy/paste so i might have to teach you on the old select all trick...

Nathan quit trolling..!

 

I'm interested in reading this link he has, so are you. Why don't you help him out with copying and pasting the link on here...

geoff998rugby wrote:Wayne do us a favour when you quote other text please provide a link.

Thats what threw me at the beginning.
Very hard to debate when someone makes reference to something others do not

Thanks

I do understand that the link he is trying to find is difficult to reference. All rather tenuous. Links that are direct quotes in the press rather than here say on a forum from a translation are more reliable sources to reference.

The text in the OP is from the Guardian newspaper. A direct quote from Jean Pierre Lux saying that the RFU will not support a new tournament.

"I went to a meeting last week where the chief executive of the RFU Ian Ritchie and the president Bill Beaumont clearly said they had told their clubs there would be no new competition. All the federations hope that ERC continues to run the [European] competitions."


http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/sep/17/heineken-cup-rugby-union-world-cup

Who in their right mind would believe Bruce "europe is dead" Craig???

Go through my posting history and if you can find a link from another forum, I will admit that your scenario in the whole HC is correct, I posted where each of the items could be found, sorry but have never copied and pasted in my life.
MM as for the information supplied, it is a lot more plausible than anything that has come out of Lux's mouth, no wonder they wanted rid of him a few years ago.

Looks like it might end up a "take it or leave it" offer from the unions on the cards. If they play it right they could suggest a compromise structure and leave the PRL with no where to go and nothing to complain about. Isolate them. Unmask the true agenda of control

geoff998rugby wrote:Wayne do us a favour when you quote other text please provide a link.

Thats what threw me at the beginning.
Very hard to debate when someone makes reference to something others do not

Thanks

Geoff, look at my posting at 1.56 that tells you where you can find the information referred to. (Ospreys Forum)

To all on here I've had a computer from the time of Sinclair and have never found the need to Copy and Paste and even if somebody had the presumption to teach me, I still wouldn't use it.

The Saint wrote:Who in their right mind would believe Bruce "europe is dead" Craig???

Agree 100%


Of course who in their right mind would believe anything uttered by Jean-Pierre "may I wipe your arse please Mr Murdoch" Lux either?

Of course who in their right mind would believe anything uttered by Jean-Pierre "may I wipe your arse please Mr Murdoch" Lux either?

That's one thing that has bothered me, whether you agree/disagree with the Franglos, they seem to have been able to get a whole lot more money than the ERC/Sky 'partnership' was offering.

I'm not implying anything wayward was happening, but it does make you wonder about how 'comfortable' the ERC was with Sky, there must have been some other considerations other than money.

wayne wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:The Ospreys and the other regions have not said they are leaving the WRU on the ospreys forum or on their website.

Andrew Hore was present at the RRW meeting earlier today where they agreed to be happy to let the WRU sort this out for them.

Wayne if you can use one forum surely you can use another...?

MM, obviously it is not on the Ospreys website as they said in their statement, it will only be discussed at the PRGB meeting on Saturday, it is on the Forum, put there by Rich from Bristol, it was a copy of a French translation of Craigs twitter to somebody in France.
I can use many forums, but sorry I do not know how to download a link, in order to download an article onto another Forum
As for Andrew Hore being at the meeting, perhaps he was, maybe not, this is just the preamble before the fireworks, obviously the RRW contacted Craig, who used his Twitter account to contact somebody in France which was picked up by a third party, OR it could all be a negotiating ploy    

Andrew Hore was at the meeting for sure. He is even in the front of the photo taken at the press release. As well as on the list of attendees at the meeting.

So I would find it unfathomable for the regions to u-turn as you suggest.

I am looking on the ospreys forum again for what you are referring to and I still can't find it...???

Any clues as to where it is????

Maestegmafia do you believe everything you read in the media?

Ultimately there is so much smoke and mirrors that it's quite difficult to know what is really going on.

You can use quotations from the media if you want but until there is a concrete statement from the RFU I think you should stop trying to stir the pot of rumours and hearsay.

beshocked wrote:Maestegmafia do you believe everything you read in the media?

Ultimately there is so much smoke and mirrors that it's quite difficult to know what is really going on.

You can use quotations from the media if you want but until there is a concrete statement from the RFU I think you should stop trying to stir the pot of rumours and hearsay.

This is the closest anyone has seen to what the RFU are thinking. If the chair of the ERC has confirmed that the RFU are with him, that is huge news and will hopefully get this resolved quickly.

Hardly stirring the pot. The Guardian newspaper quoted Lux...!


Though if the RFU had of made a public decision a year ago we would likely not be in this mess...!

Closest to what the RFU is thinking?

Lux is not part of the RFU. The Guardian paper are not the RFU.

You can't take what either said as gospel. You might well turn out to be correct but as of now there's no evidence.

I am not going to trust everything that the guardian newspaper says or any newspaper for that matter until there is official confirmation!

Oh right maestegmafia so you're blaming the RFU now?

You are hoping this is correct because your rabid anti-English stance needs to be maintained.

maestegmafia wrote:

wayne wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:The Ospreys and the other regions have not said they are leaving the WRU on the ospreys forum or on their website.

Andrew Hore was present at the RRW meeting earlier today where they agreed to be happy to let the WRU sort this out for them.

Wayne if you can use one forum surely you can use another...?

MM, obviously it is not on the Ospreys website as they said in their statement, it will only be discussed at the PRGB meeting on Saturday, it is on the Forum, put there by Rich from Bristol, it was a copy of a French translation of Craigs twitter to somebody in France.
I can use many forums, but sorry I do not know how to download a link, in order to download an article onto another Forum
As for Andrew Hore being at the meeting, perhaps he was, maybe not, this is just the preamble before the fireworks, obviously the RRW contacted Craig, who used his Twitter account to contact somebody in France which was picked up by a third party, OR it could all be a negotiating ploy    

Andrew Hore was at the meeting for sure. He is even in the front of the photo taken at the press release. As well as on the list of attendees at the meeting.

So I would find it unfathomable for the regions to u-turn as you suggest.

I am looking on the ospreys forum again for what you are referring to and I still can't find it...???

Any clues as to where it is????

MM, if you are referring to the Twitter message, it is on the Ospreys Forum under topic A Halloween Deadline and is the first message on page 3, given by somebody called Rich from Bristol, obviously if you can post the whole link I would appreciate it, also if you read the replies you can see where MOST Ospreys supporters stand on this issue

beshocked wrote:Closest to what the RFU is thinking?

Lux is not part of the RFU. The Guardian paper are not the RFU.

You can't take what either said as gospel. You might well turn out to be correct but as of now there's no evidence.

I am not going to trust everything that the guardian newspaper says or any newspaper for that matter until there is official confirmation!

Oh right maestegmafia so you're blaming the RFU now?

You are hoping this is correct because your rabid anti-English stance needs to be maintained.

I think most people, English included wish that this matter were resolved, the RFUs decision is the key to predominantly what will happen.


Cut out the insults. It just makes whatever points you have look unimportant to you.

wayne wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

wayne wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:The Ospreys and the other regions have not said they are leaving the WRU on the ospreys forum or on their website.

Andrew Hore was present at the RRW meeting earlier today where they agreed to be happy to let the WRU sort this out for them.

Wayne if you can use one forum surely you can use another...?

MM, obviously it is not on the Ospreys website as they said in their statement, it will only be discussed at the PRGB meeting on Saturday, it is on the Forum, put there by Rich from Bristol, it was a copy of a French translation of Craigs twitter to somebody in France.
I can use many forums, but sorry I do not know how to download a link, in order to download an article onto another Forum
As for Andrew Hore being at the meeting, perhaps he was, maybe not, this is just the preamble before the fireworks, obviously the RRW contacted Craig, who used his Twitter account to contact somebody in France which was picked up by a third party, OR it could all be a negotiating ploy    

Andrew Hore was at the meeting for sure. He is even in the front of the photo taken at the press release. As well as on the list of attendees at the meeting.

So I would find it unfathomable for the regions to u-turn as you suggest.

I am looking on the ospreys forum again for what you are referring to and I still can't find it...???

Any clues as to where it is????

MM, if you are referring to the Twitter message, it is on the Ospreys Forum under topic A Halloween Deadline and is the first message on page 3, given by somebody called Rich from Bristol, obviously if you can post the whole link I would appreciate it, also if you read the replies you can see where MOST Ospreys supporters stand on this issue  

I am on a mobile at the moment and can not access the forum as the Os new mobile friendly site doesn't seen to have a link.

I don't understand why you can't just post this yourself...?

Though to be honest Wayne what I did read on that thread it is in reference to Bruce Craig's press release last week and he is not in discussion with the regions he is just wishful thinking.

maestegmafia you talk about resolving it.

Yes you we want it resolved but on our terms not on yours. You would love it if the RFU turned on the English clubs because that's the kind of thing that gets you uncontrollably excited.

My points unimportant? Perhaps but no more so than someone writing a thread based up on speculation of what a body like the RFU might do or not do.

Believe the guardian and LUX if you want. I will wait for more substantial evidence like a comment from an actual RFU representative.

Beshocked - thats the issue - the PRL want something that cannot ever work. Tehy will need to compromise adn are looking increasingly isolated. I would like to see the unions offer a revamped tournament that is acceptable to the Pro 12 unions and has some compromises the way the PRL want it. Then the PRL get a take it or leave it ultimatum

beshocked wrote:maestegmafia you talk about resolving it.

Yes you we want it resolved but on our terms not on yours. You would love it if the RFU turned on the English clubs because that's the kind of thing that gets you uncontrollably excited.

My points unimportant? Perhaps but no more so than someone writing a thread based up on speculation of what a body like the RFU might do or not do.

Believe the guardian and LUX if you want. I will wait for more substantial evidence like a comment from an actual RFU representative.

Excited that rugby may not be run by fat cat businessmen and rather by passionate supporters.

TJ wrote:Beshocked - thats the issue - the PRL want something that cannot ever work.  Tehy will need to compromise adn are looking increasingly isolated.  I would like to see the unions offer a revamped tournament that is acceptable to the Pro 12 unions and has some compromises the way the PRL want it. Then the PRL get a take it or leave it ultimatum

I wholeheartedly agree, from the start I have said how much I would like to see anything that makes the RP12 a tougher competition. I don't think all the PRL and LNRs demands are wrong, far from it.

I want to see a fair competition displaying the best of rugby, inclusive of all the countries. Run by the unions.

I think you will find that those "fat cat businessmen" are passionate supporters to the extent that they are willing to put their money into clubs with very little chance of a return,at least not as much as they could get if invested in other business'.

Wayne adding a link is simple.

If you cant be bothered to provide I cant be bothered to read

broadlandboy wrote:I think you will find that those "fat cat businessmen" are passionate supporters to the extent that they are willing to put their money into clubs with very little chance of a return,at least not as much as they could get if invested in other business'.

Doesnt work - much easier to imagine them all wearing black hats and plotting to bring down Rugby instead  

geoff998rugby wrote:Wayne adding a link is simple.

If you cant be bothered to provide I cant be bothered to read

Well you ought to, because other Regions are involved.

TJ you say the PRL want something that cannot ever work - what exactly is that?

Would you guys continue to work with a company that refused to enter negotiations about grievances that you have had for years,after you giving notice(legally) kept saying that they were unwilling to negotiate,called a meeting but did not invite you having invited another party with similar grievances,having been told for years that they were underselling & stated no one else could do better but you managed to with their response being to sell again at less than you could get for less of what they are offering? Well would you?

Maestegmafia fat cat businessmen like those in the WRU? That's the biggest obstacle. You want the unions to rule the roost.

The Welsh care about the Welsh. The Irish care about the Irish. The Scottish care about the Scottish.... you get the picture... you paint the unions as the heroes but they are far from that.

beshocked wrote:TJ you say the PRL want something that cannot ever work - what exactly is that?

Only 6 rabo unions teams in the HC and club control. Neither is possible. The six rabo clubs is an afterthought anyway to fit in with the french - the PRL orginally proposed 8/8/8.

Both are unnacceptable.

In the same way that lux and co aren't squeaky clean you can't say they are all to blame either. Yes the PRL wanted change but between the English and French they have the majority vote to change it. The fact that they haven't shows that there is disharmony between union and clubs (moreso in the FFR/LNR case) so it isn't all aoutthem big bad Celt vote.

I don't see why anyone is down on the guardian. They just quoted the head of erc directly with a pretty big quote in terms of changing the face of Europe. Now, lux may well have been bullsh1tt1ng but we won't know until the end of the month if even then

TJ I didn't know you were part of the negiotations. Didn't realise that you know exactly what the PRL would be willing to accept or not.

Like maestegmafia you live off scraps and rumours.

I know it's tough but don't believe everything you hear from the media.