Ireland's November Series and Beyond...

Right boys, I want you give realistic guess of how Ireland will do in the November tests. I want you to separate your hearts from your heads. How do you predict Ireland will do and how will this set them up for the Six nations based on your poll prediction for the Autumn tests.

Do you believe in Schmidt? Do you believe he is the catalyst for consistent success or will we yet again disappoint by firing hot and cold like recent championships have dictated. Is there cause for quite confidence or should we be holding are cards close to our chest.

Feel free to throw out your wildest aspirations on the table or to throw caution to the wind.

The rest is up to you....


Sat 9th Ireland vs Samoa - Autumn
Sat 16th Ireland vs Australia - Autumn
Sun 24th Ireland vs New Zealand

Honestly, I do believe we will beat Samoa even though it will be a tough task. The tricky question is Australia they will be gunning to beat us after the Lions tough. But I believe we'll just take them by less than 5 points. New Zealand will be beat us by 7 or more but, a close fought match with a few stomach churning moments.

In my long years of watching Rugby Ireland have been a bit of an enigma.
Have had many great players over the years,12 5/6Ns titles won or shared
a respectable record versus the Boks.Two Grand Slams a draw versus an
All Black side in 1972/3 and should have won one versus them last year.
They are always capable of surprises especially when written off the last
RWC proved that.
The last 6Ns they tore Wales apart and I thought hey this could be your
year.Then you tapered off the rest of it.
You should beat Samoa,Australia we will learn more about on Saturday
get stuck into them and you`ll win.
The All Blacks average two losses a year in a 14/15 test year cycle and
are due for one now.
I don`t see why you should fear anyone it is just two teams on the day.
My picture of Ireland matches is a muddy pitch,pouring rain the ball in
the air and 8 Irish forwards descending on the waiting catcher.The
"GaryOwen",the best of luck lads fear nothing play your natural game
like a terrier with a rat:hug:    

Think theyll be more of an enigma this year with Schmidt at the helm as well, particularly vs NZ. He knows the kiwi psyche so he'll have the little things like the haka response and will know we might be off guard if we focus too much on say England.

Interesting days ahead...

I really do believe in Schmidt. I think he will make the right game plan call and ensure that it is crystal clear to all players. I think he can put systems in place where by some of our worst attributes over the last number of seasons are diminished or repaired.

I think the main strands of thought would be....

1) Clarity of gameplan (with the ball more than without it)
2) Ability to adapt that plan and the players who implement it based on opposition and how a game is developing.
3) I don't think we will see static forwards as much.
4) I don't think we'll see such a high error count.
5) I don't think we'll see such indecisiveness or lateral running in our backs.

I also see some players coming to the fore more due to the new coach.

The team I want to see line up against Samoa (who are ahead of us in the world rankings)

Healy-Cronin-Ross
POC-Ryan
McLaughlin-Heaslip-SOB
Murray-Sexton
Marshall-BOD
Earls-Kearney-Bowe

Best-Kilcoyne-Archer-Henderson-POM-Marmion-Jackson-McFadden

We will beat Samoa, we may well beat Australia and we won't beat New Zealand.

Pete, you're generally unbiased but what are McLaughlin and McFadden doing there? Why is Cronin in the team?

Notch wrote:We will beat Samoa, we may well beat Australia and we won't beat New Zealand.

Pete, you're generally unbiased but what are McLaughlin and McFadden doing there? Why is Cronin in the team?

Completely agree, I'd someone offered me Samoa and Australia wins. I'd trade it for a bloody good crack at New Zealand.

I sometimes think we simplify our thoughts when we predict ahead like this.

We don't think we have the right to say three wins - not after the recent years we've endured and the results that have hit us.

So we think a safeish bet might be two wins, given we're at home - and considering Australia seem to be in a weakened state.

But then we have a new coach, who has not coached at International level before, who champions a game style that Irish players have scant experience of (at International level) and players themselves are up in the air, not really knowing which of them will become Schmidt stalwarts.

Whilst I want to be confident, whilst I want to think that we begin Schmidt's tenure with a promising power bang.  I more realistically think that this new Irish set-up might take more than three games to settle into a rhythm.

I think maybe one win and two losses.  But all is not so bleak as I think the losses (to Australia and New Zealand) will be close enough run on the scoreboard and give many glimses of a much more promising future - much more attack orientated gameplan than Kidney's final years.

I just think not enough will be honed enough in the time Schmidt has to get us past Australia and the All Blacks.  Though I'll be delighted to be proved wrong!

Some games to get you hyped:

2nd Test 2012 New Zealand: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXeOMKpa6CY

RWC 2011 Australia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvr7LmuZL3Y

I think we might beat Samoa, lose comfortably to Australia (10-15 points) and get schooled by the ABs (20-40 points).

Joe is the right man for the job but the playing panel is at its weakest in about 15 years or so, it will take time to rebuild. The quality in the NH is pretty poor generally and we are near the bottom of the pile right now in my opinion.

Wallabies Squad - Autumn Internationals:

Ben Alexander, Sekope Kepu, Benn Robinson, Paddy Ryan, James Slipper, Saia Fainga'a, Stephen Moore, Tatafu Polota-Nau, Kane Douglas, James Horwill (captain), Rob Simmons, Sitaleki Timani, Dave Dennis, Scott Fardy, Liam Gill, Michael Hooper, Ben McCalman, Ben Mowen, Will Genia, Nick Phipps, Nic White, Quade Cooper, Matt Toomua, Adam Ashley-Cooper, Mike Harris, Tevita Kuridrani, Christian Leali'ifano, Nick Cummins, Chris Feauai-Sautia, Joe Tomane, Israel Folau, Bernard Foley.

Injured: David Pocock, Kurtley Beale, Anthony Fainga'a, Kyle Goodwin, Scott Higginbotham, Hugh McMeniman, Jesse Mogg and Hugh Pyle.


Comparing Ireland and Australia...

Front row: Ireland is stronger there
second row: Ireland
Backrow: Ireland
10, 9: Even or Australia
Center: Ireland
Back 3: Even or Australia

Thats a simplistic ranking system but going by what I have seen these last few months and the players Aus are missing I think Ireland need to respect them as always but have nothing to fear.

profitius wrote:Wallabies Squad - Autumn Internationals:

Ben Alexander, Sekope Kepu, Benn Robinson, Paddy Ryan, James Slipper, Saia Fainga'a, Stephen Moore, Tatafu Polota-Nau, Kane Douglas, James Horwill (captain), Rob Simmons, Sitaleki Timani, Dave Dennis, Scott Fardy, Liam Gill, Michael Hooper, Ben McCalman, Ben Mowen, Will Genia, Nick Phipps, Nic White, Quade Cooper, Matt Toomua, Adam Ashley-Cooper, Mike Harris, Tevita Kuridrani, Christian Leali'ifano, Nick Cummins, Chris Feauai-Sautia, Joe Tomane, Israel Folau, Bernard Foley.

Injured: David Pocock, Kurtley Beale, Anthony Fainga'a, Kyle Goodwin, Scott Higginbotham, Hugh McMeniman, Jesse Mogg and Hugh Pyle.


Comparing Ireland and Australia...

Front row: Ireland is stronger there
second row: Ireland
Backrow: Ireland
10, 9: Even or Australia
Center: Ireland
Back 3: Even or Australia

Thats a simplistic ranking system but going by what I have seen these last few months and the players Aus are missing I think Ireland need to respect them as always but have nothing to fear.

Really hope so, bought tickets to see the Aussie game in Dublin. I'll be shaking in my boots during it!!  

How will Ireland do in the AIs?

If they build squad depth, gain experience and play to tailored game plans, they will have done well.

Otoh if they flog key players, revert to Kidney ball, scrape a result at any cost, they will have done badly.

Hmmm, two sides of a dud coin?

Heads and it's Tails (moral victory)
Tails and it's Heads (Third New Zealand test Mark2)

"Kidney Ball" was really 15 players with no clarity on what the gameplan was. Whatever happens results-wise (I'm between 1/2 wins) I think Schmidt will at the very least make sure everyone knows their job.

Interesting that Sexton is already coming out saying that he is tired after playing 10 games already this season. To put that into context, he only played 10 rabo games all last season.

Does not bode well for ireland.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Interesting that Sexton is already coming out saying that he is tired after playing 10 games already this season. To put that into context, he only played 10 rabo games all last season.

Does not bode well for ireland.

Bodes well for France if they can coax even more English, Irish, Welsh and even Scottish players over.

Ruan Pienaar said something similar about his long years of Ulster plus International duties.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Interesting that Sexton is already coming out saying that he is tired after playing 10 games already this season. To put that into context, he only played 10 rabo games all last season.

Does not bode well for ireland.

Nor does the fact he's not playing particularly well either....

rodders wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Interesting that Sexton is already coming out saying that he is tired after playing 10 games already this season. To put that into context, he only played 10 rabo games all last season.

Does not bode well for ireland.

Nor does the fact he's not playing particularly well either....

That was predictable given the style Racing and indeed most French teams in general tend to play. Its why I thought he should have taken a slight pay cut and went to Clermont (he confirmed he had offers from them.)

Few things I'm hoping for:

POM at 8

Not Ross at 3

Madigan and Hendo and Marmion on the bench as well used impact subs

Someone other than BOD or Earls to get game time at 13.

Anyone see BODs interview on the late late show last night?.... apparently he gave Gatland a Christmas card there at a lions reception at downing street. Sounds like he'll be out for another week at least.

The ozzies look pretty good to me based on this mornings game.

gleesonisgod wrote:Few things I'm hoping for:

POM at 8

Not Ross at 3

Madigan and Hendo and Marmion on the bench as well used impact subs

Someone other than BOD or Earls to get game time at 13.

Well 13 is Payne next year - this year????
Cave is the best fill in but not sure Schmidt sees that.
To be honest Cave is slightly below International class but there is no one else even remotely good enough

POM at 8 - I assume you are thinking SOB, POM, Henry

Anyone but Ross - bit of a cop out who do you think can cut it - Archer?, Fitzpatrick?, someone else? - the alternative aren't great either

Jackson is out performing Madigan at the present time

Of course Sexton is tired. He had about a week between the Lions tour and starting at Racing, and something like three weeks before he started into pre-season friendlies. He'll not produce his best form this season as a result, he'll be a bit jaded.

I have a heard a rumour that one of the reason Pienaer turned down the mega bucks of France was the fact they flog their players and don't give them a break.

Thats not exactly a hard rumour to think up Geoff. Sure he's already said in interviews that his commitments with Ulster and South Africa have left him jaded at times. Boudjellal had his Saffer internationals fly back in a rest week of the Rugby Championship to sit on the bench!

It's strange the way this forum goes quiet around X factor time haha!

Of the matches I saw today Marmion and Henshaw had good games for Connacht. Murray had a poor game for Munster. Earls and POM were good for Munster. For Leinster Moore, SOB, Dave Kearney, Jack McGrath were good. Luke Fitz came off the bench and looked very sharp. Didn't get the see the Ulster match yet.

RugbyFan182 wrote:It's strange the way this forum goes quiet around X factor time haha!

Some posters dirty little secret!  

Paddy Jackson has just given 2 heino back to back master classes in fly half play - along the way pulling off the finest try saving cover tackle since Gregan nailed Jeff Wilson to win the bledisoe cup back in the late 90s.

Touhy, Henry, Wilson and Best all fronted up against a massive Montpellier pack. Bowe and Trimble still a bit rusty but getting there. Marshall was solid at 12 but Olding, who looks a bit special, is pushing him.

O'Mahoney, Jonny Murphy, Keatley, Murray,Downey and Kilcoyne all looked good in a fairly average Munster performance.

O'Connell starting to look his age a bit now, I'm sorry to say. Earls was pretty rubbish too I thought, bar one good line break were he ran away from his support.

Missed the Leinster game but heard SOB had another stormer?

Keith Earls poor? Downey good game?

    

Donners had a great game though. The form lock at the moment.

Sin é wrote:Keith Earls poor? Downey good game?

    

Donners had a great game though. The form lock at the moment.

Donners is your form winger too .....  

Well Tuohy is playing very very well at the moment.
Jackson is absolutely class - 3 near perfect performances in a row.
Henry, Bowe, Best all top of their game. I don't agree Bowe looks rusty.

They all deserve to be serious contenders and L. Marshall is the best available at 12. although Olding is pushing hard.

Roger Wilson is also putting some great performances at both 6 and 8 but age no doubt will count against him but on current form he should be there - he wont be.

Rusty is bit harsh maybe Geoff - I just don't think he's 100% yet - still missing a few tackles and making handling errors that he wouldn't on top form.

2 tries and an assist in 3 games shows how classy he is - his work rate is high too. No question he's a starter on the wing.

Sin é wrote:Keith Earls poor? Downey good game?

    

Donners had a great game though. The form lock at the moment.

oh jebus rodders in what parallel universe were you watching the game

Fair enough Rodders - safe to say Bowe at 90% is still the class winger in Ireland

From Ulster I think Tuohy is playing very well and could be rewarded with an Ireland call up. Henderson will likely be a bench option for Ireland too.

Jackson is the number 2 now. Madigan has been poorly treated by MOC. Gopperth got the MOTM award from Shane Horgan yesterday despite and error filled performance from him. Don't know what game Horgan was watching because SOB was thee stand out player.

Deccie Fitz is playing well and staying injury free! He must have had a word with Johnny Wilkinson. He'll be in the Ireland squad along with Moore ( early days yet but he is looking the real deal) and Ross. Courts days with Ireland look numbered. With a host of young looseheads coming through who are more mobile than Court I don't think Schmidt will pick him again unless theres an injury crisis.

I like Cave as a player and think he'll make the squad. He looks like a Schmidt type player! Trimble on the other hand does not. His skills are not the best. I'd like to see Olding and Marshall ahead of D'Arcy and used like Ulster use them but I think Schmidt might start Olding in one of the games.


For Leinster, Luke Fitz looked sharp yesterday and will be included in the Ireland squad I think. Maybe they might want to take things really slow with him and wait until the 6 nations. Dave Kearney is playing well, Rob Kearney is his usual self... Reliable but nothing special. Macken has been solid for Leinster but thats all. He hardly ever attempts to pass the ball and looks like a player who is afraid of making a mistake.

Toner is playing well but I'm not sure he would be able to make the step up to international rugby. Sean Cronin was flying but the old crooked throw syndrome hit him yesterday again. He has improved his throwing though and will be in the Ireland squad.

Moore I've spoken about. Ross looks under par this season. Jack McGrath looks like a quality loosehead who is going to get better and he might have jumped ahead of Kilcoyne in the queue.

Not sure about McLaughlin making the squad. SOB, Heaslip, Henry and POM look nailed on. Theres a few others who are thereabouts. Jake Heenan would make the squad if he was Irish qualified. He has been very good.


For Connacht I think Henshaw has a lot to prove but hes playing well, is very young and looks like a solid player who can cover more than 1 position. Not sure about his skill level but if its not good enough he won't be picked. Marmion is playing very well and should make the squad. He is young but no problem making decisions and giving his pack orders.

Not sure about McSharry or Griffin. Havn't seen much of McSharry and Griffin is injured but I think Griffin is a quality player.

I can see Schmidt being very biased towards Leinster players eg Toner over Tuohy, Ross over Fitzpatrick, Reddan/Boss over Marshall and Marmion, Rob Kearney over Earls, Locky and Heaslip over POM and Henry.


I'd like to see :

Healy
Best
Fitz
POC
Tuohy
SOB
Henry
POM
Murray
Sexton
Fitz
Marshall
BOD
Bowe
Kearney (Just about)

Bench: McGrath, Cronin, Archer,Henderson, Heaslip, Marshall, Madigan, Earls.

23 for Samoa after the Heineken Cup;

1. Cian Healy 2. Rory Best 3. Declan Fitzpatrick 4. Dan Tuohy 5. Paul O'Connell (c) 6. Peter O'Mahony 7. Sean O'Brien 8. Jamie Heaslip 9. Conor Murray 10. Johnny Sexton 11. Keith Earls 12. Luke Marshall 13. Brian O'Driscoll 14. Tommy Bowe 15. Rob Kearney

16. Sean Cronin 17. Jack McGrath 18. Mike Ross 19. Donnacha Ryan 20. Chris Henry 21. Eoin Reddan 22. Paddy Jackson 23. Andrew Trimble

Notch wrote:23 for Samoa after the Heineken Cup;

1. Cian Healy 2. Rory Best 3. Declan Fitzpatrick 4. Dan Tuohy 5. Paul O'Connell (c) 6. Peter O'Mahony 7. Sean O'Brien 8. Jamie Heaslip 9. Conor Murray 10. Johnny Sexton 11. Keith Earls 12. Luke Marshall 13. Brian O'Driscoll 14. Tommy Bowe 15. Rob Kearney

16. Sean Cronin 17. Jack McGrath 18. Mike Ross 19. Donnacha Ryan 20. Chris Henry 21. Eoin Reddan 22. Paddy Jackson 23. Andrew Trimble

Very good side Notch. I'd have Paul Marshall in place of Reddan and McFadden ahead of Earls. Earls maybe in the 23 jersey. Hopefully Gilroy and Fitzgerald still have time to put their hand up. Other than that I think that's pretty close to the strongest and most balanced side available.

rodders wrote:

Notch wrote:23 for Samoa after the Heineken Cup;

1. Cian Healy 2. Rory Best 3. Declan Fitzpatrick 4. Dan Tuohy 5. Paul O'Connell (c) 6. Peter O'Mahony 7. Sean O'Brien 8. Jamie Heaslip 9. Conor Murray 10. Johnny Sexton 11. Keith Earls 12. Luke Marshall 13. Brian O'Driscoll 14. Tommy Bowe 15. Rob Kearney

16. Sean Cronin 17. Jack McGrath 18. Mike Ross 19. Donnacha Ryan 20. Chris Henry 21. Eoin Reddan 22. Paddy Jackson 23. Andrew Trimble

Very good side Notch. I'd have Paul Marshall in place of Reddan and McFadden ahead of Earls. Earls maybe in the 23 jersey. Hopefully Gilroy and Fitzgerald still have time to put their hand up. Other than that I think that's pretty close to the strongest and most balanced side available.

    

They'll beat Samoa. Just. Probably some contestable yellow cards and scrum calls in there.

Australia by 20+. NZ by 30.

Not Schmit's fault. He just doesn't have the players currently.

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:

Notch wrote:23 for Samoa after the Heineken Cup;

1. Cian Healy 2. Rory Best 3. Declan Fitzpatrick 4. Dan Tuohy 5. Paul O'Connell (c) 6. Peter O'Mahony 7. Sean O'Brien 8. Jamie Heaslip 9. Conor Murray 10. Johnny Sexton 11. Keith Earls 12. Luke Marshall 13. Brian O'Driscoll 14. Tommy Bowe 15. Rob Kearney

16. Sean Cronin 17. Jack McGrath 18. Mike Ross 19. Donnacha Ryan 20. Chris Henry 21. Eoin Reddan 22. Paddy Jackson 23. Andrew Trimble

Very good side Notch. I'd have Paul Marshall in place of Reddan and McFadden ahead of Earls. Earls maybe in the 23 jersey. Hopefully Gilroy and Fitzgerald still have time to put their hand up. Other than that I think that's pretty close to the strongest and most balanced side available.

    

Feic off Sin, I even kept Earls ahead of Johne Murphy to keep you happy .... 

Wouldnt have Reddan on current from, Marshall, Boss or Marmion on the bench. Think I'd still have Ryan starting with Tuohy on the bench (didnt see the Montpellier game though). Other than that I'd go with Notches team.

How did Felix Jones look at the yesterday because Kearney really isnt playing the best at the moment. Who will be the second choice fullback? Jones, Gilroy maybe even Earls?

GloriousEmpire wrote:They'll beat Samoa. Just. Probably some contestable yellow cards and scrum calls in there.

Australia by 20+. NZ by 30.

Not Schmit's fault. He just doesn't have the players currently.

Don't get too complacent there GE ....we have the norovirus in Ireland too you know ....   

As an Ulsterman I have say the selection of Trimble or McFadden in place of Earls would be a travesty based upon form this year.

He is a decent winger and currently playing well - just don't let him anywhere near the 13 shirt.
It seems to me the Penny (see what I did there) has droped at Munster on this matter

GloriousEmpire wrote:They'll beat Samoa. Just. Probably some contestable yellow cards and scrum calls in there.

Australia by 20+. NZ by 30.

Not Schmit's fault. He just doesn't have the players currently.

Australia by +20 in your dreams GE - it will be a close one

rodders wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:They'll beat Samoa. Just. Probably some contestable yellow cards and scrum calls in there.

Australia by 20+. NZ by 30.

Not Schmit's fault. He just doesn't have the players currently.

Don't get too complacent there GE ....we have the norovirus in Ireland too you know ....   

Better get a new batch brewing! You'll need it!

Does anyone know why has Tommy Bowe been moved to the left wing (and Earls to the right). I can understand why Earls has been left on the right as Johne Murphy plays both (Zebo has a left boot so its best to play him on the left wing), but its a bit odd for Bowe to move to 11 at this stage of his career.

Sin é wrote:Does anyone know why has Tommy Bowe been moved to the left wing (and Earls to the right).

Trimble is first choice wing at Ulster and Tommy and Gilroy have been fighting it out for the other slot. Trimble is more comfortable on the right, whereas Bowe can play either.

That said Bowe and Trimbs had actually swapped on Saturday - not sure why, maybe because of Trimble's familiarity with Nagusa?

Doesn't really matter as both Trimble and Bowe are at their best coming in field - although both prefer to pass right to left.

Actually.... is Trimble carrying a hand problem? Seems to be fumbling the ball a lot.

I'd imagine its the same with Munster were Johne Murphy is first choice and Earls has to make do.

Trimble may prefer the right, but he has played an awful lot of rugby on the left.

    

rodders wrote: Trimble is first choice wing at Ulster and Tommy and Gilroy have been fighting it out for the other slot.  

Rodders no idea where you get that idea from. Tommy is first choice at Ulster no question.
In fact unless Trimble ups his game, when Gilroy is fit, he will find himself on the bench