European Play-Off

English and French clubs have responded to demands by the Celtic and Italian unions for eight clubs from the RaboDirect Pro12 to remain in the top competition of European club rugby by proposing a new play-off system, Telegraph Sport has learned.

The move is likely to be viewed as a significant olive branch in the bitter row over the future of European club rugby.

It comes as negotiations intensify to hammer out a deal that will ensure that clubs from all six nations continue to compete in the same tournament next season.

It is understood that the proposal is for clubs from the Aviva Premiership, Top 14 and Pro12 to take part in end-of-season play-offs that might produce two qualifiers for the following season’s Rugby Champions’ Cup, the new European tournament being set-up by the English and French to replace the Heineken Cup.

The weekend of May 17-18 next year has been earmarked for the inaugural European play-offs.

The plan might, for instance, see two matches being staged, with the prize for the winners of each being qualification for the Rugby Champions’ Cup.

The new play-off system is understood to be supported by both the English and French clubs and its details are being considered by the Rugby Football Union, which is playing a central role in attempting to thrash out a deal that its Celtic and Italian counterparts can support.

Supporters of the play-off system are understood to see two major benefits.

First, it is seen as a potentially acceptable compromise between the two sides.

One of the key demands behind the decision by the England and French clubs in June last year to serve the necessary two years’ notice to leave the current European Rugby Cup accord was for the Heineken Cup to be reduced from 24 to 20 clubs, in order to strengthen the second-tier Amlin Challenge Cup.

Coupled with this was the demand that only the top six from the Pro 12 would qualify, in order to remove guaranteed places in the European Cup and make it a truly meritocratic tournament.

The Celtic and Italian unions have stuck by their desire for the status quo to be retained, given their view of the European tournament as key for developing and nourishing professional rugby on as broad a basis as possible.

Premiership Rugby and their French counterparts have already given ground from their original demand by agreeing that each nation should have one guaranteed representative in the new Champions’ Cup, and the play-offs system would be in addition to that pledge.

It would allow the English and French to retain their 20-club model – with six sides from each league qualifying automatically.

But, depending how the play-off participants are decided, it could potentially see two more Pro12 clubs given a chance to qualify, which would broaden the entry to the tournament, but in a merit-based fashion.

The second benefit of the play-off idea is that it is hoped it will bring an extra element of excitement to the end of season for those clubs who are outside the domestic semi-finals in the three leagues but not under threat of relegation.

Much of the detail has yet to be thrashed out, but both the English and French clubs also see it as a priority to boost the second-tier competition of European club rugby, currently the Amlin Challenge Cup.

They see the second competition as crucial to the health of club rugby in Europe.

Average attendances in the first round of the Amlin Challenge Cup were 5,600, even with a 15,000 crowd to see Bath’s victory in Bordeaux.

It is not yet clear whether the play-off proposal will prove acceptable to the Celtic and Italian unions, and there remains considerable ground to be made up in terms of the distribution of revenues, governance of the new competitions and the separate commitments made by each side to rival broadcasters.

Nonetheless, if nothing else it suggests that, while time is now on no one’s side, a deal can yet be struck.

quinsforever wrote:tigers secret is consistent success in AP. it breeds more success on and off the pitch, especially if the youth system is well set up to capitalise on the success. imo anyway.

Appearances: 378, Champions: 7, Wins: 257, Draws: 20, Losses: 100

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:Well I note that Obama's budget has been passed at last.
Sort of gives you hope - if it wasn't for the last minute, nothing would get done it seems.

I just hope that the health care package goes through.

Now there'll be an extended argument as to whether the Franglos represent the Democrats or Tea Party.

Bagsy the Democrats.

SecretFly wrote:

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:Well I note that Obama's budget has been passed at last.
Sort of gives you hope - if it wasn't for the last minute, nothing would get done it seems.

I just hope that the health care package goes through.

Now there'll be an extended argument as to whether the Franglos represent the Democrats or Tea Party.

Bagsy the Democrats.

To make such presumptions assumes Democrats are on the side of natural right and those Tea baggers are the natural Evil guys.  It's all relative, and how evil the other guy is depends on what camp you're in.
Ironically, I think the Pro12ers are the Tea baggers  Standing up to 'Big Government', standing up for the 'decent ordinary folk and small businesses that are getting screwed by the heavy taxes '.

lostinwales wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:Well I note that Obama's budget has been passed at last.
Sort of gives you hope - if it wasn't for the last minute, nothing would get done it seems.

I just hope that the health care package goes through.

Now there'll be an extended argument as to whether the Franglos represent the Democrats or Tea Party.

Bagsy the Democrats.

To make such presumptions assumes Democrats are on the side of natural right and those Tea baggers are the natural Evil guys.  It's all relative, and how evil the other guy is depends on what camp you're in.
Ironically, I think the Pro12ers are the Tea baggers  Standing up to 'Big Government', standing up for the 'decent ordinary folk and small businesses that are getting screwed by the heavy taxes '.

Would that make the ERC the Republican party? Big,pompous and loosing support at an increasing rate?

andyi wrote:

quinsforever wrote:tigers secret is consistent success in AP. it breeds more success on and off the pitch, especially if the youth system is well set up to capitalise on the success. imo anyway.

Appearances: 378, Champions: 7, Wins: 257, Draws: 20, Losses: 100

378-257-20-100 = 1

What happened to other game????

quinsforever wrote:Washington was built in a swamp that appealed to no-one. Washington itself was a compromise seat of government location after the civil war.

if we get a washington (no-one loves it but no-one completely hates it) that will mean we get to watch euro rugby next year. My fear is the winners of the war (the North = The Union not unions = prl/lnr) are going to want the new capital to be close to New York, and hence the losing side (the South = Confederates = celtalian unions) would decline peace and any settlement.

my favourite quote about washington was from JFK who described it as a city of Southern efficiency and Northern charm.

quinsforever wrote:france?

quinsforever wrote:

quinsforever wrote:france?

twas the Irish of course  under the orders of a few aristo english i imagine

quinsforever wrote:they were hedged...

lostinwales wrote:Hopefully thats ironic - British army in 1814 as part of the 1812 war.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

lostinwales wrote:Hopefully thats ironic - British army in 1814 as part of the 1812 war.

Did they got lost on the way over?

lostinwales wrote:

quinsforever wrote:they were hedged...

Commanding officer was Anglo Irish. Off the top of my head not sure where the British troops were from (although a bunch were royal marines).

SecretFly wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

quinsforever wrote:they were hedged...

Commanding officer was Anglo Irish. Off the top of my head not sure where the British troops were from (although a bunch were royal marines).

An Anglo-Irish lad burns down a House (White) designed by an Irish lad.

Like I say, fighting both sides of an argument is always the best way of ensuring a win.  

McCafferty's just gotta have some rebel Confederate Celtic blood in him somewheres.  He's secretly telling the IRFU every move the PRL are going to make in advance.

"We're bluffin'... yiz are in lads...all four Provinces...just pretend yiz don't know until we get the other Pro12 chaps to agree to hari-kari"

SecretFly wrote:I like the idea of being a Texas rebel.  Yes sir, that do suit me fine.  Thank'ya kindly sir.

quinsforever wrote:

Metal Tiger wrote:Doc,

In my 20's I knew everthing. FACT

In my 30's I suspected that I didn't know everthing.

In my 40's I realised I knew sod all and started to listen to other people.

The art of compromise comes with experiance & wisdom so thank your lucky stars that half the idiots on here are not involved in the negotiations!

so wise old man (i am also 42 ) in view what you have heard from other people (not here obviously) where do you think the current bid-offer in negotiations is and what do you think will happen.

because i couldnt agree more that most other people are either deluding themselves (20s) or bluffing (30s) rather than listening to the flow of information and feeling the currents....