My top 5 weapons list, please give own opinions

Serve:
1. Ivo Karlovic: the huge kick, pace, and angles he generates make his serve so hard to deal with
2. Andy Roddick: Big Mph with a lot of consistency
3. Milos Raonic: Huge mph the fastest I have seen him hit is 150mph, plus is very consitent
4. Roger Federer: the variety, the disguise, the precision also a very good second serve.
5. John Isner: see karlovic

Return:
1. Novak Djokovic: Lead the ATP in 2010 in break percentage, again in 2011 is on top with a 43 percent break percentage that is the highest I ever remember
2. Andy Murray: always at or near the top, especially like when he goes after the second delivery with his backy up the line
3. Rafa Nadal: breaks a lot is one of the toughest guys to ace, but doesn't go after the second serve enough to put that extra fear and tension in the opponent
4. David Ferrer: always top 5 in break percentage
5. Nikolay Davydenko: been hurt alot and playing under usual form but so good at pressing on the second serve

Forehand:
1. Juan Martin Del potro: The fastest forehands in ATP history getting right around 110 mph nobody wants to go toe to toe with Juan in a cross court forehand exchange
2. Roger Federer: Maybe the greatest forehand in history but since he has lost a tiny bit of movement its gotten harder to run around and be in the right position for the forehand, still the majestic forehand has it all and can do it all pace, angle, spin, precision, inside out, down the line
3. Robin Soderling: just hits so many winners off that wing on any surface
4. Rafa Nadal: best clay court forehand in the game, also has added the flat forehand and the up the line in recent years for faster surfaces
5. Novak Djokovic: Last year he had probably a top 15 forehand but since US open last year he has been dialed in, he hits it both hard and heavy and can go up the line, cross court, or inside out with it as well. Occassional bouts of errors and inconsistency keep it from being the absolute best

Note: this was the toughest category because there are so many great forehands on the ATP tour here I gave the benefit of the doubt to higher ranked players who have shown more consistency with that shot. But you could easily put Tsonga, Monfils, Verdasco, and Fernando Gonzalez on the list.

Backhand:

1. Richard Gasquet: the best single hander in the game players on tour try to avoid hitting it like its the plague, nobody has ever gone up the line with a one hander any better
T-2: Novak Djokovic: Nobody hits the backhand much better can return with it, pass with it, go up the line or get tremendous angle with the cross court backhand
T-2. Andy Murray: such a great shot especially on the run and on the return
4. David Nalbandian: Nobody changes direction better than David, lost some points because he has been on and off the tour for the last few years
5. Nikolay Davydenko: Best up the line backhand, but also similarly loses points for his recent drop off

Volleying:
1. Radek Stepanek: great volleyer, maybe one of the last pure s and v ers on tour. Just don't like his goofy antics
2. Michael Llodra: how did I initially forget a player that would place so highly on the list, good eyes Mad for chelsea.
3. JW Tsonga: such supple feel at the net for a big man has one of the prettiest drop volleys in the game
4. Roger Federer: great volleyer as he ages should do it more often as he ages
5. Feli Lopez: again one of the last of the S and V guys

Hey socal,

Good topic and list. The only changes I would make would be the backhand and change Nikolay Davdenko to Rafael Nadal purely because Nadal's passing backhand up the line on the run is phenomominal. And I would change the volleying I would change Murray with Llodra purely because Llodra is great at the net.

Either way it is a good subject.

Good list, socal, and I agree with most of it. They're a few orders I would change, and i'll post my own list when I get around to it.

BUT

How could you forget about Mikael Llodra when doing the list of top volleyers?!?!?! The best backhand volley in the game (and last of a dieing breed), couple with great touch, fantastic net coverage (watch how he makes himself a big target at the net) and a very very good overhead. I'd have him at the top...

Also Fernando Gonzalez is surely worth a mention when talking about forehands (certainly up here with Del Potro with the fastest).

Aha, having just re-read your article I notice that you did mention Gonzalez in the forehands. Still, Llodra is a glaring omission IMO...

Gentlemen you are 100 percent correct LLodra should be on the volley list, I will edit immediately. With Nadal I really thought a lot about his backhand I think he does have the best passing shot off the dead run I have ever seen with the backhand whether cross court or up the line. He would definetly be in my top 10 backhands, and arguably he is top 5.

How can we forget the return skills of Roger Federer, the man who consistently makes a mockery of Andy Roddick's serve, even back when he was belting them at an almost consistent rate of 150mph?

Right then my list.

Servers:
1. Karlovic
2. Roddick
3. Federer
4. Raonic
5. Isner

Returners:
1= Murray
1= Djokovic (Djokovic wins 43% of returning games, Murray 42%)
3. Nadal
4. Ferrer
5. Juan Monaco (always seems to be up there on the returning stats)

Forehands:
1. Nadal
2. Del Potro
3. Federer
4. Gonzalez
5. Soderling
Tough calls to make here, and this list would probably change in the next ten minutes or so...

Backhands:
1. Murray (the effectiveness of his slice edges out Djokovic)
2. Djokovic
3. Gasquet (more beautiful, but not quite as effective as the top 2 IMO)
4. Nalbandian
5. Youzhny

Volleyers:
1. Llodra
2. Stepanek
3. Tsonga
4; Stakhovsky (has great feel and touch at the net)
5. Murray (great hands, but should use them more often )

Stealth, Roger is up there, if I had made it a top 10 list he would definetly be on it. Roger has a read on Andy's serve I am convinced that allows him to pick up where it is going. On the other hand 17 breaks in 08 final against Nadal also has to be taken into consideration. I kind of looked at the totality of their returning ability but it is reasonable to put Fed there. Especially, since Davy has been so off form lately.

Stealth Maestro Agro Love wrote:How can we forget the return skills of Roger Federer, the man who consistently makes a mockery of Andy Roddick's serve, even back when he was belting them at an almost consistent rate of 150mph?

Agree with that. So good are his return skills that at the age of 19 it allowed him to reduce Sampras' ace count to the same as his, a mere 25 over 5 sets on fast Wimbledon!.

And let;s take the example of Hewitt being one of the greatest returner too got blasted off court by Karlovic's serve at Wimbledon 2003 as defending champion while Federer played teh Croat 3 times in Wimbledon and holds a 9 sets to love lead!

Federer's return skills are even more impressive that unlike the others on these lists, he stands closer to the baseline and doesn;t rely on the ball slowing down like Nadal who stands 4 meters behind teh baseline.

Davydenko and Nadalbandian are the best returners otherwise.


FH - Nadal? LOL! How many FHs does he need to play in a rally to win a point? A good FH is a FH that allows for a quick win of the point. Federer's is by a mile better cause it has pace and accuracy.

It's amazing looking at everyones lists that Federer was truly in my opinion the best all rounded player the game has ever seen. From the serve, to the forehand, to the return, to the volleying. It's just a shame that his backhand, even in his prime, was not very good, was pretty average, or possibly a bit above average. But it really makes you appreciate the mastery of Federer.

I thought he was backhand was the best shot in his prime. The length and power he was able to generate for a singled handed backhand was amazing. Over the years it has become more inconsistent, but none the less a fantastic shot

Actually his one handed backhand was much worse when he was younger. Plenty of players have better one handers even Gasquet, Youzhny, Almagro, and Wawrinka to name a few. Tenez if Federer is such a great returner how come he has never lead the ATP in break percentage, doesn't facts and results mean anything to you or do you just live off of bold faced opinion and anectodal evidence that isn't much evidence. In the last three years Murray has lead the ATP in break percentage once and Djokovic twice. But regardless of the numbers I guess Fed is a better returner because well like everything else, because you say so.

socal1976 wrote:Actually his one handed backhand was much worse when he was younger. Plenty of players have better one handers even Gasquet, Youzhny, Almagro, and Wawrinka to name a few. Tenez if Federer is such a great returner how come he has never lead the ATP in break percentage, doesn't facts and results mean anything to you or do you just live off of bold faced opinion and anectodal evidence that isn't much evidence. In the last three years Murray has lead the ATP in break percentage once and Djokovic twice. But regardless of the numbers I guess Fed is a better returner because well like everything else, because you say so.

He said he was a great returner, but not the best. Anyway he is a great returner although nowadays it seems he doesn't break as often, but still up there in the top 6 I'd say.

Tenez if Federer is such a great returner how come he has never lead the ATP in break percentage,
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Can you prove that? I actually remember Federer being often second in return stats behind Davydenko.

I have seen many top players live at Wimbledon and nothing came close to be as impressive as Federer returning Karlo, Roddick and Ancic's serve on grass.

There you see really the extent of the genius. More so as I said as he takes the ball earlier than anybody else.

It might just be too fast for some to really appreciate the feat.

Look at the current return numbers Tenez Djokovic and Murray are way ahead of Federer. And last year I remember Djokovic lead the ATP in break percentage. Those are the hardfacts, you can just check the ATP website if you like. Funny I don't see you providing citations and proof for any of your statements although you want to require it from me. Go to atpworldtour.com, there is your citation.

Well - You are clearly omitting Fed's best years where he was indeed top or very close to be top of the list.

Anyway, no one is better than Federer when it comes to eye/hand coordination and that in itself puts him in a good position to be the best returner (and volleyer).

I woudl not go as far to say he is the best volleyer cause he had other safer weapons which, in this current slow-conds era, made him use volleying more sparsely than he would have on faster conds. But when it comes to play a difficult volley at an important point, I would maybe put him above Stepanek.

No tenez I am not omitting Fed's best years, I am not taking them into consideration at all for this list. This is not the best returner list over the course of the career, this is for right now. And clearly Federer by the numbers is well behind Novak, Murray, and Nadal for that matter and has been for some years at least in the return department. That is why on this list I had a problem with rating Gonzalez among the best forehands because he has been hurt so much and although I included Davy and Nalby for backhands and returns, I did knock them down a peg or two for their lack of recent form. 3 or 4 years ago I would probably rate Nalby's backhand as the best in the game and Fernando would definetly be top 5 in terms of forehand.

But the OP 5 top weapons doesn;t mention the last 2 years only. Of course Davy and Nalby aren't going to show well there as they have been, like Federer, in and out of form in the last 2 years.

And breaking games, involves more than returns so your stats are biased there. I don;t find Nadal's returns great at all. He is way far back but it is true that when when those players bring the ball back and engage in rallies, they make life tougher for their opponent for now.

That's all this return game stat says!

There are other return statistics to take into consideration. Percentage of points won on second serve being another. But the big statistic to judge a player by how well he returns is how well often he breaks. That is principally how they judge the servers, invariably part of the calculation of a good serve or a good return is how well you back it up. Personal opinion can come into play but we must have some grounding in facts. Also on the ATP tour the vast majority of points are won and lost on the serve. Once these guys on the ATP get on top of a point and get ahead in a rally they don't lose it very often. Even in today's game with the great retrievers we have. If you hit a good return that handcuffs your opponent you will usually win that point. Same thing with if you get a short ball back off your serve.

Stastics for Return:

Points won returning 1st serve
1. Nadal
2. Murray
3. Djoko
13. Roger Federer

Points won returning second serve
1. Nadal
2. Djoko
3. Murray
25. Roger Federer


Return Games won: (%)
1. Djoko
2. Murray
3. Nadal
20. Roger Federer

Break points converted (%)
1. Murray
2. Djokovic
10. Nadal
50. Roger Federer

Anyway you slice it he isn't a top 5 returner anymore

James Blake remains the holder of the greatest forehand in living memory. Please amend accordingly.

AND WHAT ABOUT MAHUT FOR VOLLEYING, HUH?!

Stealth, James Blake has a great forehand best one on the challenger circuit by far. And Mahut is a good volleyer as well I wouldn't rate him better than any of the 5 I have above him.