Playing Rafa Is Different To Playing Anybody Else

Up until his semi final loss to Nadal Federer had been playing some great tennis. He was asked at his press conference after the loss if he thought that it was due to him being slower than on other days or if his backhand returns had let him down. Federer replied that what many don't appear to understand is that playing Rafa is totally different to playing any other player

It's a totally different match.  I don't know how to explain you guys.  It's totally different playing Rafa over anybody else.  Playing Murray or Rafa is day and night.

It's not because of the level necessarily, but it's just every point is played in a completely different fashion and I have to totally change my game.

No excuse.  It's just a fact of what it is.  I try to fight that today, and he    yeah, it's a different match   very different.

http://www.ausopen.com/en_AU/news/interviews/2014-01-24/201401241390567322232.html

...like this should be a surprise to Federer after 33 matches? Geez.

He's basically admitting he simply has no idea how to play the guy.

That's a bit dismissive Lydian - it obviously was no surprise to Fed. He was asked a question, so had to reply. At no point did he say it was a surprise to him.

Q. Did you feel a bit slower today than the other days? Was the reason because of your backhand didn't work today very well on the return maybe?

Only Djokovic can make a competitive match with Nadal when Nadal is in this form. I would have liked to have seen a Murray v Nadal semi-final but Murray didn't seem to have that tournament mind set to go all the way. When he lost to Federer he was reported to have said something like it was stupid to have thought he could have won this tournament ... and I suppose that was an indication of where he was mentally (according to Lendl he had completely recovered from the back surgery - so it was just a question of being match and tournament fit)

Maybe JHM but its also such a typically lazy answer from him. He says nothing in interviews to give you any sense he really thinks about his matches.

Like I said he's basically saying he can't his game against Nadal...but then it never seems like he tries to. I actually wonder for all his talent how tactical Federer is...I think most of the time he just goes out there and plays natural aggressive tennis, but when he has to revert to or create Plan B he doesn't seem particularly able. Like Rafa said, nothing about Fed...for all his hiring of Edberg...seemed any different from the 2012 match. I got the sense Nadal wasn't overly worried or taxed by the match and is probably bewildered that Fed has never tried anything radical over the years in facing him. He just presents Nadal with the same approach so Rafa just serves and hits to the BH, moves him around then waits for the error after 5-10 shots and its game over.

Sampras said it was the first time he had seen Rafa play live (the Rafa - Fed match). He says he has never seen anything like it, he is the complete package, his ability to adjust his shots on the run, his movement, he is tough, he is mentally tough, he hits a heavy ball, he serves pretty well, he does everything, he is a credit to the sport. Sampras declares himself a fan of Nadal.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/25893638

lydian wrote:Maybe JHM but its also such a typically lazy answer from him. He says nothing in interviews to give you any sense he really thinks about his matches.

Like I said he's basically saying he can't his game against Nadal...but then it never seems like he tries to. I actually wonder for all his talent how tactical Federer is...I think most of the time he just goes out there and plays natural aggressive tennis, but when he has to revert to or create Plan B he doesn't seem particularly able. Like Rafa said, nothing about Fed...for all his hiring of Edberg...seemed any different from the 2012 match. I got the sense Nadal wasn't overly worried or taxed by the match and is probably bewildered that Fed has never tried anything radical over the years in facing him. He just presents Nadal with the same approach so Rafa just serves and hits to the BH, moves him around then waits for the error after 5-10 shots and its game over.

Which players do give any sense about what they really think? If anything Fed gets criticised more than most for doing just that.
Personally, given the SHBH I don't think there are any tactics Fed can adopt that will consistently get results against Rafa, and if there are Fed is probably 4 or 5 years beyond having the skills to execute them at the required level.

lydian wrote:Like I said he's basically saying he can't his game against Nadal...but then it never seems like he tries to.

I agree with that.  The match-up is horrible for Fed, plus by now Rafa is also clearly a better player than Roger, so there might not be anything that would work, but there is no point doing the same thing all over again.  It is worth trying something else even if it ends up leading to a worse demolition still - at least he will have tried.  I was watching a bit of their 2012 match before this match and when this match started it struck me that Fed was playing exactly the same tactics - just the execution was less sharp this time.

summerblues wrote:

lydian wrote:Like I said he's basically saying he can't his game against Nadal...but then it never seems like he tries to.

I agree with that.  The match-up is horrible for Fed, plus by now Rafa is also clearly a better player than Roger, so there might not be anything that would work, but there is no point doing the same thing all over again.  It is worth trying something else even if it ends up leading to a worse demolition still - at least he will have tried.  I was watching a bit of their 2012 match before this match and when this match started it struck me that Fed was playing exactly the same tactics - just the execution was less sharp this time.

summerblues. You were not the only one studying the 2012 match prior to this years semi. This is from Nadal's post match semi

RAFAEL NADAL:  I don't know.  I think he tried to play very aggressive, taking the ball very early.  But if you go to YouTube and you see the video of 2012 match, you will see that he was playing very, very aggressive, too.  Especially the beginning of the match.  So is nothing completely new.

I saw that video today, the morning.  I see the way that he will try to play again.  But important thing for me is serve well, resist the beginning.  I know he will try to go on court going for the winners, taking the ball very early.

So when the match is coming and the match is longer, then that's more difficult.  Because physically is very difficult for me, for him, for everybody to play with that intensity of trying to play that aggressive during a few hours, no, because mentally and physically is very tough.

So when the match is going on, I know that I will have the chance to hit a little bit more rallies.  That's the position that I want to be.  So is very important to resist the score at the beginning.

http://www.ausopen.com/en_AU/news/interviews/2014-01-24/201401241390566025489.html

I wonder if Federer is so diligent with his homework?

My God, another thread conjured from nothing to make posters feel happy.

Exactly SB, and clearly not HE. Federer has always had a stubbornness to change things...including even his 90inch racquet.
He's never tried changing his return position radically, slicing DTL on returns, or CC short angles, he plays far too much CC stuff and dives into the net on a hope & prayer. He's never tried to really hone a returning game vs Rafa, just expects different results from the same approach....the definition of madness!

To be fair BB there are tactical things to discuss that Federer refuses to adopt down the years which come out of his admission that Rafa plays different to everyone else (...he's comfortable with).

what? sampras had not seen rafa play on court in this 10 years?
cant believe that

lydian wrote:To be fair BB there are tactical things to discuss that Federer refuses to adopt down the years which come out of his admission that Rafa plays different to everyone else (...he's comfortable with).

No, it says nothing of the sort. It says the left handed guy with the mega topspin ball that jumps miles off the court and gets out of the SHBH hitting zone is different to everyone else. I think we know that. There's nothing else going on.

If a guy came along with a shot that went 1in over the net, flat as a pancake and hard as Hell, that stuck to the floor because the courts are super slidey, Rafa would be giving the same interview.

Disagree BB but there we are.

I think it is obvious that playing Nadal is different than playing anyone his style is different and he is just better than other players. But I do agree with one thing that Lydian has brought up that federer really doesn't make changes to his style or tactics and does not make any adjustments. He basically plays the same against every opponent. Where Nadal has changed his game since the shock of 2011 and really since the start of his career and Djokovic as well has shown a desire to change his game around and to try a different approach tactically and technically.

I can't believe that Federer doesn't have a plan when he steps out to face Nadal. I think the greater problem is, like Mike Tyson once said, "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth". I've seen Federer hang back, try get to the net, use the slice more, Go for winners earlier, try out rally Rafa, but it's generally not worked. Why? Match-ups are a horrible thing sometimes. South Africa averages a one-goal loss vs Brazil a game, and yet we average around 4-0.25 against Nigeria. The reason is quite simple, technically we arent too far behind Brazil, but Nigeria is simply too strong, especially in African conditions.

Similarly, I think, outside of putting a second-hand on that backhand - the primary deficit which Federer gives up against Nadal can't be overcome through planning.

That's correct kingraf.

I wrote on another thread that 2006 was illuminating: Federer was obviously a better player than Rafa back then, Nadal only making 5 finals and losing to many players who couldn't take a set off Roger but he still dominated the h2h 4-1 (3 on clay admittedly). Federer lost 5 matches all year and made all but one final.

If that isn't match up evidence I don't know what is.

Nore Staat wrote:Only Djokovic can make a competitive match with Nadal when Nadal is in this form.  I would have liked to have seen a Murray v Nadal semi-final but Murray didn't seem to have that tournament mind set to go all the way.  When he lost to Federer he was reported to have said something like it was stupid to have thought he could have won this tournament ... and I suppose that was an indication of where he was mentally (according to Lendl he had completely recovered from the back surgery - so it was just a question of being match and tournament fit)

Off topic - but let's put this one to bed. Anyone thinking that Murray has any chance winning this event, given his woeful lack of matches - was either a very optimistic Murray fan or is underestimates what is needed to win a Slam

No Murray fans on these boards thought he would win and all thought he would lose to Fed

It's been perfect for him, some 'easier' early rounds, so he's shaken some of the cobwebs off