Premiership Player of the Year shortlist

by nathan Fri 25 Apr 2014, 8:23 pm

Cast you votes on who you think should be crowned the Premiership Player of the Year award should go to and a reason for it.

In my completely one eyed biased view im going for Goneva, he's kept the Tigers in the title hunt whilst the rest of our team were fecked or playing crap.

by HongKongCherry Fri 25 Apr 2014, 8:52 pm

For me it has to be Braid. He has been outstanding all season and has typified Sale's guile.

by Portnoy's Complaint Sat 26 Apr 2014, 7:56 am

On what planet would Mike Brown not get it? Apart from Klingon who would vote for their own and go for Burger.

Meanwhile in the Eurovision, Ukraine is tipped to do very well.

by nathan Sat 26 Apr 2014, 12:49 pm

I don't think Brown has been as good as you think Portnoy, He's been brilliant at International level but no way near that same level for his club. Just my opinion of course.

by formerly known as Sam Sat 26 Apr 2014, 1:25 pm

Brown has been top quality for England but only good for Quins. Pennell is my pick as he's been a key factor in Wuss actually earning a few points. Have kick returns, tireless in defence, kicked points and seemingly the only tactical kicker on Wuss team sheet.

Goneva has mixed the sublime with the anonymous this season. Great player but not sure the best player this season.

by HammerofThunor Sat 26 Apr 2014, 2:10 pm

Pennell for me as well. Perhaps it's been a case of standing out in a poor team but stand out he has.

by beshocked Sat 26 Apr 2014, 2:56 pm

Goneva or Pennell for me.

Pennell has performed very well in the bottom team in the AP, it's almost been like a one man battle to keep Worcester from being relegated.

Goneva has been a decisive match winner for Tigers. He's given them a much needed X factor in the backline when Manu has been out of most of the season. Top try scorer too this season in the ap.

Mike Brown should not get it based on the premiership. Missed too many games IMO.

by **Rugby Fan** Sat 26 Apr 2014, 3:04 pm

Is it common for an English player to be short-listed while not featuring in any national squads? I think even the likes of Nick Wood and James Scaysbrook had at least made it to the Saxons when they featured.

by Scrumpy Sat 26 Apr 2014, 10:00 pm

George Ford

by yappysnap Sat 26 Apr 2014, 10:40 pm

Hhmmm if he played like he did today all season then Burger for me.

Not really sure about any on that list though.
Pennell is a good solid fb in a very poor team (the Parisse effect).

Brown is another good fb but had an average season for Quins (honestly Goode at Sarries has been better in the AP and that hurts to say)

I don't know enough of Braid to comment. But at Sale i'd have Cips as the key man.

Burger has been great at tackling but not sure if he's done any more then that (but then what else do Sarries want him to do?!).

Manoa started the season incredibly but has faded since the start of the year, possibly over played.

Goneva is the opposite he's drifted for most of the season and then suddenly woken up (except against Quins and Clermont).

I must just be too fussy though

by nathan Sat 26 Apr 2014, 10:51 pm

Scrumpy wrote:George Ford

Lol

by **LondonTiger** Sun 27 Apr 2014, 3:31 pm

Injury issues mean Jacques Burger has made just 10 starts in the premiership. I have to ignore his performance yesterday as that was a different competition.

Manoa had a good start to the season, but has been quiet recently and a long way from last seasons heroics.

Brown - stunningly good for England, but not the best we have seen from him in a Quins shirt.

Which leaves it to Pennell, Braid or Goneva for me.

Braid is the key man for Sale. Cipriani gets the headlines, but he has been poor when Sale were on the back foot (as to be fair are most 10s) Braid has been consistently excellent.

Pennell has been excellent all season, but perhaps flattered by the poor performances around him.

And our Niki - can be breathtaking but also makes so many mistakes especially dropping the ball or losing it in contact.

Torn.

by yappysnap Mon 28 Apr 2014, 6:32 am

Wait a second is Braid Sale's flanker or winger? As I'm thinking of the wing but now realise they may mean the no7?

by **LondonTiger** Mon 28 Apr 2014, 6:40 am

Braid is the kiwi back rower.

Brady the winger.

by yappysnap Mon 28 Apr 2014, 8:01 am

Ahhhhh I thought I may have been a little confused. Braid when I saw him played very well, held the team together and reminded me of Louw for Bath. But isn't he another who's been out for a while?

by **LondonTiger** Mon 28 Apr 2014, 8:18 am

He missed two matches recently, both televised, which would give that impression.

However has started 17 of 20 AP matches this season

by Cyril Mon 28 Apr 2014, 8:21 am

I'm a little surprised not to see Myler in there.

by Welly Mon 28 Apr 2014, 11:53 am

went potato and posted in wrong thread.

Gotta be Goneva imo, Slater must have been close to the shortlist imo.

But goneva has kept Tigers in the hunt.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 28 Apr 2014, 2:55 pm

wrong thread Welly?

by **LondonTiger** Mon 28 Apr 2014, 3:50 pm

McCall, Cockerill and Diamond nominated for the Guinness Director of Rugby of the Season award.

McCall must be a very short odds favourite.

by nathan Mon 28 Apr 2014, 6:56 pm

LondonTiger wrote:McCall, Cockerill and Diamond nominated for the Guinness Director of Rugby of the Season award.

McCall must be a very short odds favourite.

It's got to be Diamond for me, Sale haven't the resources of Saracens yet they've done brilliantly this year. It's been an average season for cockers (so far) so i don't think he should get that either.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 28 Apr 2014, 7:01 pm

Sale will probably come 6th - same as they did two seasons ago.

Saracens have a decent chance of winning the AP and HEC. Hence why atm I say McCall is favourite.

Can all change, though i think the awards are handed out before the HEC final

by yappysnap Tue 29 Apr 2014, 6:28 am

To be fair I think a lot more credit has to go to Gustard at Sarries for their success, what does McCall do specifically? Gustard's defence is what the whole Sarries team and gameplan are based around and it's the most effective in Europe.

Diamond has done stirling work with Sale. In a league where it's all about a packs size the small forwards that he has at hand are having to play so smartly to succeed. His resources are far smaller as well and he has nothing like the money that Sarries can throw at problems. And he has Redpath...

by **George Carlin** Tue 29 Apr 2014, 6:55 am

nathan wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:McCall, Cockerill and Diamond nominated for the Guinness Director of Rugby of the Season award.

McCall must be a very short odds favourite.

It's got to be Diamond for me, Sale haven't the resources of Saracens yet they've done brilliantly this year. It's been an average season for cockers (so far) so i don't think he should get that either.

Totally agree. Amazing to think what Diamond could do with a larger budget. Bringing in Cusiter and Hines this year is going to prove to be a great piece of business next season.

by **LondonTiger** Tue 29 Apr 2014, 7:50 am

Blow the budget on Richie Gray again?

by HammerofThunor Tue 29 Apr 2014, 7:52 am

Doesn't Kennady pump in the money? Are Sale at the cap?

by yappysnap Tue 29 Apr 2014, 7:09 pm

Looking at that list again i'm baffled by Cockerills inclusion, Tigers have struggled this year, have just made it to the play offs but aren't a certain, were knocked out of the HC play offs and all this with one of the biggest and best squads around.

I can only assume there was a place to fill and alphabetically Cockerill was first on the list...

by Welly Tue 29 Apr 2014, 8:47 pm

yappysnap wrote:Looking at that list again i'm baffled by Cockerills inclusion, Tigers have struggled this year, have just made it to the play offs but aren't a certain, were knocked out of the HC play offs and all this with one of the biggest and best squads around.

I can only assume there was a place to fill and alphabetically Cockerill was first on the list...

Well considering cockers was out for the first 8 weeks (I think).

He had away on internationals during the season Ayerza, Youngs, Cole, Mulipola, Parling, Matera, Youngs, Flood, Scully.
Then he had injured (more than 2 weeks) Mulipola, Youngs, Hawkins, Cole, Parling, Kitchener, Deacon, Croft, Mafi, Matera, Crane, Youngs, Flood, Allen, Bowden, Heptema, tualigi, Smith, Goneva, Benjmain, Camacho, Morris, Hamilton, Tait .

The fact that Tigers managed to get into the HC 1/4 and get the closet any team has this season to beating them at home. (same as Toulon), and that we are 4th despite being 8th earlier in the season.

by yappysnap Wed 30 Apr 2014, 6:37 am

Every year Tigers have an "injury crises" which then suddenly fades away at the tail end of the season allowing them a good run in the AP and to get to the play offs in Europe. I don't see anything special about this season, sorry.

by beshocked Wed 30 Apr 2014, 11:25 am

Every team gets injuries. Just some clubs talk up the injuries more than others.

Diamond has gone from 6th to 10th (I think) to 6th. Diamond has done well sure but getting to mid table is hardly going to go in the historical books as a monumental achievement. If he got his side to the playoffs..... 12 wins, 8 losses is mediocre.

Mccall in comparison's side look to be set to get the highest ever points total in an AP season.

18 wins, 2 losses is impressive. 8 try bonuses too.

Remember Saracens have had to deal with fighting on a lot more fronts than Sale - being involved in a LV semi finals, dealing with much more international commitments and fighting it out in the HC.

Saracens may have more resources than Sale but they have had to manage those resources just as carefully.

Sale have had basically just the AP to focus upon, okay there was an Amlin 1/4 final but that's not comparable to a HC final!

by formerly known as Sam Wed 30 Apr 2014, 11:40 am

Dunno Yappy the injuries this season pretty much decimated us. Losing Mulipola for two months and the Cole for three months was a blow. Croft and Parling for late portions of the season. Going to Ulster with Thompstone and Benjamin on the wings because they were literally the only wings we had left bar the academy. Not what we wanted when Ulster love the up and under and Benjamin hadn't played for over a year. It goes on and on after that, Mafi injured then in Australia with his ill son for two months. Quins have had injury problems yet dropped out of the HTC earlier and are lower in the league.

Cockers has survived well. Not sure he's anywhere close to DOR of the season mind. Probably just in there to round out the selection list.

by beshocked Wed 30 Apr 2014, 12:09 pm

Sam didn't have too many players in the England side this season though.

Every team has suffered from injuries/absentees. I feel that sometimes the injuries/absentees are an over used excuse.

by **LondonTiger** Wed 30 Apr 2014, 12:16 pm

TBH cockers is lucky to be there, probably Malliner should be on the list, but no great 3rd choices among the league.

by HongKongCherry Wed 30 Apr 2014, 12:18 pm

beshocked wrote:Every team gets injuries. Just some clubs talk up the injuries more than others.

Diamond has gone from 6th to 10th (I think) to 6th. Diamond has done well sure but getting to mid table is hardly going to go in the historical books as a monumental achievement. If he got his side to the playoffs..... 12 wins, 8 losses is mediocre.

Mccall in comparison's side look to be set to get the highest ever points total in an AP season.

18 wins, 2 losses is impressive. 8 try bonuses too.

Remember Saracens have had to deal with fighting on a lot more fronts than Sale - being involved in a LV semi finals, dealing with much more international commitments and fighting it out in the HC.

Saracens may have more resources than Sale but they have had to manage those resources just as carefully.

Sale have had basically just the AP to focus upon, okay there was an Amlin 1/4 final but that's not comparable to a HC final!

I don't think you can make such a simplistic comparison though. I'm not going to start a whole salary cap discussion, but McCall has at his disposal a lot more resources than Diamond be it analysts, training facilities, etc. This doesn't demean McCall's achievement in the slightest, but you have to look at what Diamond has achieved in comparison with the resources available. I think it will be a very close call between the two. As this is meant to focus purely on the Jeff we can't factor in HC performance, but I would give the edge to McCall. I would add a caveat to that though; there is no doubt Sarries have underachieved in the league in recent years when it comes to the important stage. I personally would rather wait to see who wins the Jeff before making the award and victory would give it to McCall, otherwise it goes to Diamond; as we can't do that though McCall shades it for me.

Like Yappy, I'm surprised that Cockerill is in the mix and would suggest Mallinder is more worthy of a spot on the shortlist. Tigers have had an injury crisis, but that shouldn't ever count. There has been some pretty dire rugby played by Tigers this season. In fairness to him, Tigers are still the side you can never write off, but I've far more enjoyed watching Sarries and Sale play. As much as it pains me to say it Ford is also more deserving of a spot than Cockers.

If I had total free rein I would give it to Nigel Davies. He has done very well for Glaws and has saved us from relegation... Rolling Eyes

by beshocked Wed 30 Apr 2014, 12:29 pm

Londontiger as you say there is no standout 3rd nominee.

HKC this is Diamond's 3rd season (I believe) with this Sale team. 6th is a big improvement from last season but it's just back to where Sale were 2 years ago. Diamond went down the high profile players last season and it backfired spectacularly.

6th is middle table. If Sale make the playoffs I would hand Diamond the award now. It's not remarkable to get 6th. I wouldn't say Sale are punching above their weight. Realistically there have been 4 teams fighting for 6th to 10th. Sale are one of them.

In comparison Saracens would break the highest amount of points for an AP season despite having many challenges to face.

by HammerofThunor Wed 30 Apr 2014, 12:31 pm

beshocked wrote:Londontiger as you say there is no standout 3rd nominee.

HKC this is Diamond's 3rd season (I believe) with this Sale team. 6th is a big improvement from last season but it's just back to where Sale were 2 years ago. Diamond went down the high profile players last season and it backfired spectacularly.

6th is middle table. If Sale make the playoffs I would hand Diamond the award now. It's not remarkable to get 6th. I wouldn't say Sale are punching above their weight. Realistically there have been 4 teams fighting for 6th to 10th. Sale are one of them.

In comparison Saracens would break the highest amount of points for an AP season despite having many challenges to face.

Diamond wasn't director of rugby last year. He was CEO or something like that. He took over the rugby side towards the end of the season and pulled them out of relegation.

Didn't Saracens come 1st last year? So they haven't improved at all this year then.

by **LondonTiger** Wed 30 Apr 2014, 12:33 pm

Of course Cockerill is the only DoR who can win the AP title in the time period between last year's award and this.

In the end, with the way Sarries capitulated at the end of the season it could be argued that McCall should not have received it last year. however it was handed out before the semi-finals were lost so badly. I suspect this is the only reason cockers is nominated - should be Mallinder though.

HKC, disagree about Ford. With the resources available to Bath they should have done even better than they have - and they are still at risk of missing the play-offs.

by **LondonTiger** Wed 30 Apr 2014, 12:34 pm

HoT,

There has been a clear improvement at Sarries in that they did not choke in the HEC semi this time round Run

by beshocked Wed 30 Apr 2014, 12:46 pm

Hammerofthunor Diamond was still at the club and should have surely been able to influence proceedings.

I do think Sale have done well this season to come 6th but it's generally seen as a bigger achievement because of their poor run of form last season.

Well they should end the table with a higher points total than last season.

When is the award given out?

Londontiger true. Saracens didn't choke in the HC semi this time round. I think no Rolland helped too.

Award shouldn't be handed out till the AP final has been played.

I would say this award would very much be dependent on whether Sarries win the AP or not - win and Mccall is the clear winner, don't and Diamond should get it.

by **LondonTiger** Wed 30 Apr 2014, 1:06 pm

the award is handed out on 15th May - before the finals - but this year at lkeast after the AP semi.

by formerly known as Sam Wed 30 Apr 2014, 1:18 pm

Considering Mallinder went of with a war chest last summer you'd expect his new star names would help him out this season. Not convinced by the showing in the HEC. They have been brutally effective in the AP so I suppose on that basis I suppose he does deserve recognition. Probably more than Cockers who has been more focused on just get to into the play offs.

by HongKongCherry Wed 30 Apr 2014, 1:22 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Of course Cockerill is the only DoR who can win the AP title in the time period between last year's award and this.

In the end, with the way Sarries capitulated at the end of the season it could be argued that McCall should not have received it last year. however it was handed out before the semi-finals were lost so badly. I suspect this is the only reason cockers is nominated - should be Mallinder though.

HKC, disagree about Ford. With the resources available to Bath they should have done even better than they have - and they are still at risk of missing the play-offs.

To an extent I agree with that, but you also have to look at where they were last year and this season has seen a vast improvement.

Why am I defending vomit

he's been the worst DoR of the lot!! Wink

by **LondonTiger** Wed 30 Apr 2014, 2:30 pm

Young player of the year shortlist:

Jamie Elliott - Northampton Saints
George Ford - Bath Rugby
Elliott Stooke - Gloucester Rugby
Billy Vunipola - Saracens
Anthony Watson - Bath Rugby
Owen Williams - Leicester Tigers

Previous winners include: Joe Launchbury, Owen Farrell, Manu Tuilagi, Ben Youngs, Tom Varndell and Ollie Smith.

by beshocked Wed 30 Apr 2014, 2:47 pm

Don't think Jamie Elliott and Billy should win.

Jamie Elliott was better last season. Not been the best winger by a long shot.

Billy simply hasn't played enough AP games despite arguably being the best player of the nominees.

Ford would be a decent contender if he didn't have a dip in form in the last few matches. Not been the best player in his position.

Watson and Williams have not been the best players in their position either.

Would probably go for the underdog - Elliott Stooke.

by yappysnap Wed 30 Apr 2014, 5:23 pm

Williams for me, although I know nothing about Stooke

by GunsGerms Wed 30 Apr 2014, 5:31 pm

Andy Goode is my player of the year. Legend.

by **LondonTiger** Wed 30 Apr 2014, 5:34 pm

GunsGerms wrote:Andy Goode is my player of the year. Legend.

Ah but is he a mercenary?

An embarrassing selection.

by GunsGerms Wed 30 Apr 2014, 5:39 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:Andy Goode is my player of the year. Legend.

Ah but is he a mercenary?

An embarrassing selection.

Id say he would play for food so I dont see him as a mercenary at all. He is a decent player too.

Have always been a Goode fan. Andy that is.

by **LondonTiger** Thu 01 May 2014, 7:24 am

Premiership Rugby wrote:The boffins at Opta were asked to analyse every match in this season's Aviva Premiership Rugby competition studying a number of areas including tackles made, performance at the breakdown, penalties conceded, line outs won, metres gained and carries by all members of the 12 Aviva Premiership Rugby packs.

Only forwards who played 13 or more matches in the Aviva Premiership Rugby season were eligible and the following shorlist was created:
Schalk Brits - Saracens
Nick Easter - Harlequins
Sione Kalamafoni - Gloucester Rugby
Samu Manoa - Northampton Saints
Michael Paterson - Sale Sharks
Tom Youngs - Leicester Tigers

"Forwards don't always get the recognition they deserve so we thought it was important to add this category to the list of Awards this year," said the Rugby Director at Premiership Rugby, Phil Winstanley.

"These six have made a huge impact this season and I am grateful to the team at Opta for the work they put in every week analysing every moment of every match in Aviva Premiership Rugby."

by beshocked Thu 01 May 2014, 12:20 pm

I would vote for Michael Paterson.

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