Championship play-off final 2nd Leg

First topic message reminder :

Championship final: Bristol v London Welsh (8-27 agg)

Venue: Memorial Stadium

Wednesday, 4 June

Kick-off: 19:45


Can Brizzle bounce back?

I can't see them doing it, so I guess the next question is can Oxford Welsh stay up next season?

How can I watch tonight's second leg?

I think it's on Sky, the first leg was.

Check Penfro's TV scheduling thread - its all there

Good luck Welsh. They've done it the right way this time (no late fake appeals to ensure no-one else can benefit from it) and Bristol seem to be bringing in the ringers (which might be completely unfair on my part and Welsh have brought in a ton of guys). And Welsh beat Bristol on aggregate during the season and were only down on bonus points (which I don't particularly like in general).

Come on Brizzle, I want a real West Country derby next season!   

London Welsh: 15. Alan Awcock, 14. Seb Stegmann, 13. Tom May* (C), 12. Seb Jewell, 11. Nick Scott, 10. Gordon Ross*, 9. Chris Cook, 1. Nathan Trevett, 2. Nathan Morris, 3. Peter Edwards, 4. Will Spencer, 5, Matt Corker, 6. Mitch Lees, 7. Carl Kirwan, 8. Richard Thorpe.

Replacements: 16. Nathan Vella, 17. Tom Bristow, 18. James Tideswell, 19. Ben West, 20. Ollie Stedman, 21, Rob Lewis, 22. Rhys Crane.

Bristol Rugby
Jack Wallace, Charlie Amesbury, Jack Tovey, Ben Mosses, Andy Short, Nicky Robinson, Ruki Tipuna (c), Kyle Traynor, Ross Johnston, Gaston Cortes, Ben Glynn, Glen Townson, Nick Koster, Marco Mama, Mitch Eadie

Replacements: Rhys Lawrence, James Hall, Jason Hobson, Ben Skirving, James Grindal, Adrian Jarvis, Adam Hughes

Big spenders Bristol get to spend another year in the championship. London Welsh win 20-21 in a thriller. Bristol were good, but Robinson is no place kicker, never has been. Many points were left on the field. LW played smarter, and were consistent in what they did. In the closing minutes it payed off.

I've got to say, these play off matches between welsh and Bristol have been better than any standard of rugby i have watched in the Rabodirect. If half the team (especially the four welsh regions) played with the pure grit, pride and determination that the London Welsh team did today then the Rabo would be a goo advertisement for rugby (but it's not).
Well done Welsh thoroughly deserved
I wonder what will happen to the big Bristol signings now, bit eager with the pen some players were. I hope Ryan Jones, Matthew Morgan and Dwayne Peel come back to the regions.

Got to be happy with that result, Andy Robinson not a happy bunny.

Ouch!

Looks like they'll have to spend more money for next season.

Well done welsh btw

Welsh same budget as Bristol??? Who's he kidding

Welcome back Welsh!

I bet some of those contracts were contingent on Bris going up, will be interesting to see where some of them end up now. Jack Lam for one will be snapped up by someone surely?

Have Welsh made any signings?

Really disappointing that in their return to the Premiership London Welsh still haven't established an academy yet.  They're one of only a couple of clubs even in the Championship that don't have one, and to not have young academy players benefiting from a senior side in one of the Premiership spots is criminal.

London Welsh need to make an academy a priority, for their own sustainability and advancement if nobody else's.

Jhamer25 wrote:I've got to say, these play off matches between welsh and Bristol have been better than any standard of rugby i have watched in the Rabodirect. If half the team (especially the four welsh regions) played with the pure grit, pride and determination that the London Welsh team did today then the Rabo would be a goo advertisement for rugby (but it's not).
Well done Welsh thoroughly deserved
I wonder what will happen to the big Bristol signings now, bit eager with the pen some players were. I hope Ryan Jones, Matthew Morgan and Dwayne Peel come back to the regions.

Bell end

Fair play London Welsh. Played excellent knock out rugby.

Bathman and Jhamer, according to our chairman none of Bristol's signing have such contingency clauses. He says that two of our (as yet unannounced) summer signings have clauses allowing them to be loaned out to top flight teams, but will be back before the 'business end' of the season. How accurate this is I don't know.

Don't know why there appears to have been some antipathy toward Bristol on this (and other threads). By all means call them for choking, not having good game management or not knowing how to play knock out rugby - its all true, but some of the other stuff written on this and other threads is simply, flat out, wrong.

Some posters mentioned ringers - there were none. The player I assume was being referred to was Ryan Jones. He was correctly signed and registered in February before being loaned back to Ospreys until the end of their season (i.e. would they reach their own play-offs) - I appreciate that few will bother to check out press releases/the local rag for tier two teams - but this was announced at the time, it simply didn't appear on the BBC website until the play offs. There were threads on Bristol's unofficial forum following Ospreys progress to see if he would be available for the Championship.

Other posters have bemoaned Bristol for not following the Exeter, i.e. 'right' way. I went to University in Exeter and have plenty of good will for them. There is another poster on this site who can confirm that I said in person, before the Bristol v Exeter play off that I hoped that they'd get in the Premiership. I write this to hopefully show I'm not motivated by bitterness. However... Whilst I'm not going to attempt to debunk the myths that have arise around Exeter's rise, I am going go raise a few points about what Bristol should have done according to this model:

Got a stadium - done;
Got a respectable fan base with scope for growth - done;
Got some money - done;
Got an academy which has produced players for all four home unions for almost 100 years and continues to do so - done;
Got plenty of (mostly unglorious) history - done.
The only thing Exeter have that we have not (apart from a good team) is a geographically inappropriate nickname.

Bristolian, I think the issue is one of perception.  Because Bristol announced all of these big signings pretty early, most peoples perception of them is that they were being flash and believed that promotion was a given.  People see that as arrogant, and will always jump to take what they believe is the moral high ground.  I am sure that within the Bristol squad nobody believed that they just had to turn up to be promoted, and my opinion having watched the final is that they froze under the weight of expectation.  I think that had they delayed the announcement of signings then people would have, rightly or wrongly, had more goodwill towards them.

For what it's worth I thin it's a shame they've not made it, more for the fact that i think they had a better chance of survival in the Premiership next season than Welsh do.  Getting up next year will be a big ask also, as Worcester have recruited well, and Leeds young side will be a year more experienced.

Watched some of this last night.

Thought Bristol were going to do it at one stage.

What did Welsh make in the first half, 88 tackles. Battled hard.
Bristol started strong in the second half, like I said, thought they would go on to sneak it.

Wasn't to be, fair play Welsh.

Bristol 11 looks decent, took his try well.

For what it's worth I thin it's a shame they've not made it, more for the fact that i think they had a better chance of survival in the Premiership next season than Welsh do. Getting up next year will be a big ask also, as Worcester have recruited well, and Leeds young side will be a year more experienced.

Hmm..not sure about this, the Bristol forwards would be smashed and their defence is poor

Nicky Robinson will be kicking himself(pardon the pun) for missing those kicks.

Good luck next season Bristol.

Bristol are a poor team without their big name signings. The way they're set up this season would not work in the AP.

Yea they've signed some good players but they may not have gelled together. Welsh look hard to breakdown, they won't be a pushover in the AP

munkian wrote:

For what it's worth I thin it's a shame they've not made it, more for the fact that i think they had a better chance of survival in the Premiership next season than Welsh do.  Getting up next year will be a big ask also, as Worcester have recruited well, and Leeds young side will be a year more experienced.

Hmm..not sure about this, the Bristol forwards would be smashed and their defence is poor

The Bristol forwards next year would include Perenise, Ryan Jones, Ross Rennie and Jack Lam amongst others so would most definitely not get 'smashed'.

I feel so sorry for Morgan, Jones and Peel who went to Bristol (Jones early and messed his SA chances up) thinking they were going to be playing Premiership rugby next season.

No I really really do honestly

westisbest wrote:Nicky Robinson will be kicking himself(pardon the pun) for missing those kicks.

Good luck next season Bristol.

No he wouldn't, he'd miss !!!

westisbest wrote:Nicky Robinson will be kicking himself(pardon the pun) for missing those kicks.

Good luck next season Bristol.

Got to say that was part of the difference, if they'd had a kicker who could have slotted the pens they would have gone through. Also fearsome defence by LW, they might just spring a few shocks next season.

Only watched the first 30 mins but from what I could see was for all their huff and puff Bristol didn't have a clue how to break down a well organized defence.

Jhamer25 wrote:I've got to say, these play off matches between Welsh and Bristol have been better than any standard of Welsh Regional rugby I have watched in the Rabodirect. If the four Welsh regions played with the pure grit, pride and determination that the London Welsh team did today then the Rabo would be a lot more competitive (but they're not).

Fixed that for you  

Well it makes a complete mockery of the championship.

Isnt that the second time in a few years that bristol have fallen at the playoffs after dominating the league.

Time to get rid of it.

And do Formerly known as Oxford Welsh have a ground for next season?

Not sure they dominated the league GF.  Welsh won the same amount of games as them, and lost fewer, having drawn one.  They also had a better head to head record over Bristol in the regular season.  Bristol only finished above them courtesy of securing more bonus points.  Hardly what I would call domination.

Similarly when the Chiefs beat them, the only reason they finished so far ahead in the regular season was because the Chiefs, once they knew they were in the play offs, basically did another pre-season in order to allow themselves to peak for the play offs, which effectively meant they threw a few games.

They still were champions of the league and didnt go up.

Complete mockery.

The championship should not be about end of season entertainment...its about promotion pure and simple.

Leave the showbiz to the Prem Play offs.

I also think this sums it up pretty well.

One thing that is manifestly unfair is that London Welsh players will be waking up this morning battered & bruised, finally ready to go on a well earned holiday. We are well into June, our players & those of other clubs will be already refreshed & ready to start pre-season training.

Meanwhile the LW management will need to find some more players to add depth to the squad, but it is a bit late for that. I am sure they will have some agreed already on condition that they win promotion, but it hardly puts them on an equal footing with the 11 other clubs that they will have to compete against.

It is ironic that the play-off system that allowed them promotion is also the biggest single obstacle to them making a success of that promotion. If the play-offs have to stay, then surely the Championship season could be changed so that the play-offs are completed around the same time as the Premiership regular season.

No they weren't champions of the league GF.  They finished top of the log, which entitles them to a semi final place, that is all.  Welsh are the champions.

I do agree though that the play offs should be brought forward, to give them ample time to get themselves ready over the summer for next seasons campaign.

Congrats to Welsh, they've done what they needed to do.

Very mixed feelings about Bristol but overall see it as an injustice. Top team should be promoted on merit. Time for a potential 2 up 2 down with only the 2nd spot subject to play offs.

The top of the Championship is going to be an even tougher place to get to next season.

Some of the other Championship clubs are already in pre-season, but the playoffs could have been completed two weeks ago if the season start hadn't been delayed for a week, and if the double-header 23rd games hadn't been shoehorned in.

The expanded B&I Cup takes up a lot of fixture weekends too - it should be dumped or perhaps played in a single block at the end of season without the top 4, while the playoffs are on.

The play offs should be like the Pro12 - 1 game with home advantage given to the team higher up the league.

So some reward for gaining more points during the course of a season.

Ozzy3213 wrote:No they weren't champions of the league GF. They finished top of the log, which entitles them to a semi final place, that is all. Welsh are the champions.
I do agree though that the play offs should be brought forward, to give them ample time to get themselves ready over the summer for next seasons campaign.

You are correct of course, however in my eyes they finished the regular season top of the tree thus should be champions.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:No they weren't champions of the league GF.  They finished top of the log, which entitles them to a semi final place, that is all.  Welsh are the champions.
I do agree though that the play offs should be brought forward, to give them ample time to get themselves ready over the summer for next seasons campaign.

You are correct of course, however in my eyes they finished the regular season top of the tree thus should be champions.

Hey Geordie, London Welsh are up, that must be a relief - that's at least one team in the AP Falcons may win against next season...   

I thought the whole reason for a play off system in the AP was so that the teams that provide international players during the AI and 6 nations would have a chance to come good at the end of the year.

So why does the Championship need a play off system?

Surely the best team over the course of the season should be the team that goes up as in theory they have the best chance of staying up?

I think the 2nd bottom team in the jeff should play the runner up in the Championship.

Jimpy wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:No they weren't champions of the league GF.  They finished top of the log, which entitles them to a semi final place, that is all.  Welsh are the champions.
I do agree though that the play offs should be brought forward, to give them ample time to get themselves ready over the summer for next seasons campaign.

You are correct of course, however in my eyes they finished the regular season top of the tree thus should be champions.

Hey Geordie, London Welsh are up, that must be a relief - that's at least one team in the AP Falcons may win against next season...   

You like putting us down dont you....

I hope all the Prem teams underestimate us next season like you are. We'll be a different proposition next season...trust me.

GeordieFalcon wrote:They still were champions of the league and didnt go up.

Complete mockery.

The championship should not be about end of season entertainment...its about promotion pure and simple.Leave the showbiz to the Prem Play offs.

I also think this sums it up pretty well.

One thing that is manifestly unfair is that London Welsh players will be waking up this morning battered & bruised, finally ready to go on a well earned holiday. We are well into June, our players & those of other clubs will be already refreshed & ready to start pre-season training.

Meanwhile the LW management will need to find some more players to add depth to the squad, but it is a bit late for that. I am sure they will have some agreed already on condition that they win promotion, but it hardly puts them on an equal footing with the 11 other clubs that they will have to compete against.

It is ironic that the play-off system that allowed them promotion is also the biggest single obstacle to them making a success of that promotion. If the play-offs have to stay, then surely the Championship season could be changed so that the play-offs are completed around the same time as the Premiership regular season.

Agree 100%

Not a fan of the play offs in the prem, let alone in the championship.

geoff998rugby wrote:The play offs should be like the Pro12 - 1 game with home advantage given to the team higher up the league.So some reward for gaining more points during the course of a season.

That would be better.

Bristolian wrote:The only thing Exeter have that we have not (apart from a good team) is a geographically inappropriate nickname.

Bristol Shoguns?

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:No they weren't champions of the league GF.  They finished top of the log, which entitles them to a semi final place, that is all.  Welsh are the champions.
I do agree though that the play offs should be brought forward, to give them ample time to get themselves ready over the summer for next seasons campaign.

You are correct of course, however in my eyes they finished the regular season top of the tree thus should be champions.

Hey Geordie, London Welsh are up, that must be a relief - that's at least one team in the AP Falcons may win against next season...   

You like putting us down dont you....

I hope all the Prem teams underestimate us next season like you are. We'll be a different proposition next season...trust me.

How will Falcons be any different from their last 10 Premiership seasons when they've been rubbish? Has big Dean suddenly recruited the entire Leicester team in a bizarre case of reverse osmosis?

This season was simply about survival. The Play Offs screw up any kind of professional forward planning.

We have recruited very sensibly whilst brining through several of top class youngsters (with more on the way through). We'll not be the team that stuttered to survival this season.

GeordieFalcon wrote:This season was simply about survival. The Play Offs screw up any kind of professional forward planning.

We have recruited very sensibly whilst brining through several of top class youngsters (with more on the way through). We'll not be the team that stuttered to survival this season.

I can't see anything spectacular, the other teams have been recruiting and bringing players through too - it's all relative. Realistically, the top six from last season will be viewing Falcons as a nailed on 5 points and Falcons will be hard pushed to get out of the bottom four next season I reckon...

Jimpy....I think you'll find it's Tigers who normally poach from the Falcons.

We had a difficult season but will improve next without doubt. Do you think Tigers will?

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Jimpy....I think you'll find it's Tigers who normally poach from the Falcons.

We had a difficult season but will improve next without doubt. Do you think Tigers will?

Hence my use of the term 'reverse osmosis'....

I didn't get that far in your post tbh

Coleman, Bristol Shoguns was certainly cringe worthy. It was a while ago and thankfully it didn't last long! It was due to Mitsubishi being our major sponsor at the time...so unless Exeter are sponsored by a Native American business it is not quite the same thing. Certainly don't recall any casinos in Exeter during my time there, the nightlife seemed to be clubs with 1980s décor and signs outside saying 'no Royal Marines'