Ultimate Warrior pays tribute to Savage

Very Interestin stuff

Warrior also talks about his out look on the business today and various other things.

http://rajah.com/base/node/23014

For all the negative criticism that Warrior gets from WWE especially the Self Destruction video it shows how much of it is WWE propaganda and politics. He comes across as a hugely intelligent bloke, he genuinely looks cut up about Randy and I thought he showed a great amount of humility when he was mentioning people telling him about being kids and pretending to be Macho Man beating up their mates Warrior.

Really gained a huge amount of respect for him for that video and for anyone that is not a fan of Warrior I wholeheartedly advise to watch this video.

Here's the Youtube direct link as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74NjMY5bsnc&feature=player_embedded

Great video thanks for posting. Still cannot believe the news about Macho. hoping for a really nice tribute on Raw tonight or I'll be very disappointed.

Thanks for the link Hero... I wholeheartly agree a class act The Warrior.

It is a great link, I've always held the Warrior in the very highest of regards and for me this video shows why

Just an observation, it seems the Warrior commands a lot of respect from us here yet I get the general impression the rest of the IWC looks down on him and underplays his impact on pro wrestling. Do you think this is largely to do with The Self Destruction of the Warrior film, the ramblings on his blogs about homosexuality etc, or not being a great technical wrestler? He was always one of my favourites as a kid, and I like him now as he speaks sense and is articulate.

I dont think he does get a hard time from the IWC, I think the majority of people who gave him a hard time are fans who didn't see his first run, most fans who like him saw him in his true pomp from 89-91 watch some of his feature matches and you see how fast/strong/mobile/agile he was, Pro Wrestling isn't about actual Wrestling, its about telling a story and through good guidence and a willingness to learn Warrior became very good at that

Gaffer if I recall Warrior has received bashing on 606 V2 and his name came up regularly in conversations of most overrated wrestlers. I agree though that he was a great pro wrestler, his intensity and dedication were inspiring. Although 99% sure it would never happen, would love to see him working backstage at WWE. He could teach a lot to the young talent.

He became a joke on 606 like Tatsu is now with the 606/606v2 posters.

I'll watch the video later. I've heard Warrior speak highly of Savage in the past so it's no surprise to hear this is a classy tribute.

I am surprised that so many people are describing Warrior himself in such glowing terms, given some of the opinions he's stated over the years on politics. Fair enough if you agree with them, but I find it hard to describe a man who has regularly espoused such far right-wing views as a class act, or to hold him in the highest regard.

I'm sure that Al Qaeda could put together an equally heartfelt video about the alleged demise of Osama bin Laden, and I'm sure their pain would be real, but it doesn't make them class acts (before anyone jumps on this, it is a deliberately extreme analogy. Please don't focus on this one comment because if you do you are missing the point. I am not comparing Warrior to Al Qaeda or Savage to bin Laden!).

As for his wrestling legacy, and perception within the IWC, I think there are two distinct groups which remember him fondly: Those who got into wrestling when he was main eventing, and/or British and Irish fans.

I've actually researched this! I asked Wade Keller and Bruce Mitchell of the Pro Wrestling Torch for their opinion, explaining that in the UK Warrior is remembered as just as big a star as Hogan. Their response reflected my own thoughts: When this country was first exposed to WWF wrestling, he was a star. His reign as the champion and top guy in 1990 came in the WWF's infancy in the UK. From 1989 to 1992, when the WWF experienced its first UK boom via satellite TV, Warrior was consistently the number one or two babyface in the company. There was a thread on the Torch website where other UK-based fans agreed that his legacy over here is far greater than in America and in wrestling in general.

Long-standing wrestling fans were unimpressed with Warrior the same way they'd been unimpressed with all the other jacked up wrestlers Vince McMahon had pushed. Let's not kid ourselves here, Warrior had almost zero wrestling ability. He couldn't work a hold, he could execute about four moves (and not all of those safely), and often looked exhausted just running to the ring. Yes, he had great charisma, and he was, um, interesting on the mic. He had a unique look. There was something about him that Ted Arcidi and Hercules and Billy Jack Haynes didn't have, but we shouldn't overlook the fact that without his ridiculously jacked body he wouldn't have had a job.

Casual American fans reacted to him the same way they'd react to anyone who was given such a huge push; they loved him. But if someone is booked to destroy everyone in their path, to give their opponents nothing, the fans will love them. That's what happens. It's not a criticism of Warrior, it's just a fact.

And he wasn't a draw! Warrior's title reign in 1990 bombed. He was given the prized spot as Hogan's successor and it led to a massive downturn in business that wasn't reversed for six or seven years. It wasn't all his fault, but his title reign drove away viewers who never came back. He just wasn't three-dimensional enough to keep them; he was barely two-dimensional. But of course, none of us knew that at the time. To us the WWF was this amazing new thing and he was its most eye-catching star. We didn't care about his ability in the ring, we didn't care whether he drew at house shows. All we cared about was that wrestling was new and Warrior was fun.

I think we have a hugely misleading perception of Warrior's legacy. He was the first memorable star to us, and that will always ensure fond memories. But to most Americans and long time fans, he was a flash in the pan.

Great link Hero

I'll just add that Keller and Mitchell - one of whom has been a full-time wrestling journalist for 25 years, the other has been a wrestling journalist since 1990, the year Warrior held the world title - seemed genuinely confused by the question.

I don't think it had even ever crossed their minds that Warrior was held in such high esteem by anyone or thought of as anything other than a short-term failed main event experiment. That for me sums up how unique our British perspective is.

Always love Reading your views Crips....

I'm from the camp who admittedly discovered wrestling when Warrior was at his peak & I always thought the self destruction of the Warrior was WWE propoganda. Bret Hart was going to get similar treatment until he agreed to work with Vince on a DVD regarding his legacy. When you own the entire video library I suppose you can paint whomever however you like.

I haven't followed Warriors career post 92 really as he wasn't an all time favourite. Could you please enlighten me as to why you describe him as having 'far right wing views?'

That was a fantastic insight into the British psyche Davies, and not one I had considered before . Thanks.

Brady, don't think for a second that I agree with WWE's portrayal of Warrior! You're totally right, it was complete propaganda. If they have such a low opinion of him why did they ask him to headline the 2010 Hall of Fame?!

It is true that very few wrestlers and ex-wrestlers have good things to say about Warrior. He's generally considered to have been a talentless steroid freak who had no respect for the industry or his peers. I'm not going to agree or disagree with this perception, but that is how most of his former colleagues feel about him.

As for Warrior's political views, he has made many prejudiced comments, both in speeches and on his website, regarding race, religion and homosexuality. His views are so ridiculous as to not even offend. They are also completely incoherent, much like his wrestling promos. He has so much hatred but cannot articulate why he hates people so much. For example Warrior's reason for hating Jews is because "they throw rocks". You might be wondering what wise metaphor he is employing here. There is no metaphor. He literally hates them because they throw rocks.

He has also compared gays to paedophiles, and accuses Barack Obama of being a Muslim and not being an American. These are the sort of far right wing ideas that have gained the Tea Party movement such momentum in the US; preying on the worst fears of ignorant people. I'm not sure if Warrior is the predator or the ignoramus. Probably both.

I think he's a very bitter man and I also think he clearly has a mental imbalance. The only outlet he has for all his bitterness and mental problems is to hate. Whatever's going on in his head, I don't think he's a nice man at all.

Thanks Demon, I know you're a difficult man to impress!

I’ve posted your first comments regarding the British perception compared to the US one up on Twitter if that’s ok, great read.

Yeah no problem Hero. I don't really know much about Twitter to be honest.

I'm not going to get into all this again because its been done to death but to say Warrior could only do about four moves is just a blatent lie, I would say it was uninformed but coming from you I know that not to be the case so a complete mis-truth is the only possible way of describing that statement, one 20 minute viewing of his SummerSlam 89 match would rubbish thore claims

What I would say though is that I can definitely agree with you're reasons why Warrior was/is so popular and I also consider Wade Keller to be the best Wrestling journalist out there

Fair enough gaffer, but off the top of my head I can only think of clothesline, kick, punch, bearhug, press slam, flying shoulderpress and big splash.

Ok, that's seven, I did lie!

Snap Suplex, Power Slam, Double Axe handle off the top rope and a body slam are another four and on the bigger matches he would use a shoulder breaker

I maintain that he had almost zero wrestling ability. The moves he performed were largely the most basic and rudimentary power that any wrestler of almost any mobility could perform. Indeed almost all of the wrestlers who have been pushed for their muscle mass rather than their in-ring talent have had similar movesets, whether The Warlord and The Barbarian in the 80s, or Mason Ryan today.

I will say this, I think you can be a very successful wrestler without being technically outstanding, as Hulk Hogan, The Rock and to an extent John Cena have proved. I will also credit Warrior for his incredible charisma, and for playing the part very, very well. But nonetheless, the wrestling ability helps, as does having a defined multi-dimensional character.

Davieswasacrippledtart wrote:Thanks Demon, I know you're a difficult man to impress!

Am I?

Where did you get that from?

I'd agree that for pure wrestling ability he'd be near the end of the cue but since when has actual Wrestling ability been a main factor of pro Wrestling? He had unbelieable energy that was infectious, he was second only to Savage for his flamboyance, he had shed loads of charisma and with it a brilliant look and body, add his speed, agility, aggression and strength and you had a guy that ticked every box bar actual wrestling and in Pro Wrestling that is a great ratio

the-gaffer wrote:I'd agree that for pure wrestling ability he'd be near the end of the cue but since when has actual Wrestling ability been a main factor of pro Wrestling? He had unbelieable energy that was infectious, he was second only to Savage for his flamboyance, he had shed loads of charisma and with it a brilliant look and body, add his speed, agility, aggression and strength and you had a guy that ticked every box bar actual wrestling and in Pro Wrestling that is a great ratio

I agree, as I said earlier. But I don't think he ticked every box bar wrestling skills. I consider him a poor promo guy, for a start. I just don't think he was someone who fitted the role of number one babyface.

Demon, I thought we'd had some strong disagreements before. Might have been someone else, I lose track of all the people I p1$$ off!

I thought he was a great promo guy, he wasn't a Piper Hogan or Jake but like Savage he just went into a World of his own and in his own way got his point across, I suspect we could talk about him all day and not change each others mind

He was a top class promo guy - just not in the traditional sense.

You cant deny that you would be hooked by his promos. The intensity, the randomness - just incredible.

The one he did to Hogan about pulling off the cockpit door was genius.

Yes he was an average wrestler but the intensity of his presence outweighed all of that.

So what if he has far out views in real life? People like Randy Orton and he dumps in peoples bags (apparently)

"So what if he has far out views in real life?"

That was a response to people saying he was a class act and talking about the respect they had for him, in relation to his Savage tribute. I only stated that, while it may be a nice tribute, I personally found these comments about his character strange and I find it hard to respect him as a person. Wouldn't have mentioned it otherwise. I'd find it strange if people said the same about Orton!

Re the promos, if you enjoyed them I'm not going to disagree. I enjoyed them too and still do. But taking a step back I don't think they were ticket-selling promos. There's a huge difference between being entertaining and being productive (look at how WWE and TNA use every trick in the book to keep us hooked to their TV programmes, yet ratings remain poor and buyrates continue to drop). Hogan, for all his flaws, had a defined character, clear objectives, and perhaps most importantly a reason to get behind him (I say that as someone who even at the age of 11 hated him!). When I think back to Hogan promos from that era I almost always remember who the promo was directed to. With Warrior, I mostly only remember the crazy things he said. Hogan and Savage also showed traits of being human in their promos; Warrior never did. He was like something from another planet, and he was wildly entertaining, but I don't personally think that's enough to sell tickets, you need more substance to do that.

Davieswasacrippledtart wrote:Demon, I thought we'd had some strong disagreements before. Might have been someone else, I lose track of all the people I p1$$ off!

If we did I don't remember it.

I have the occassional lapse in tolerance for random people though

I like your posts because they always have interesting, thought-provoking content. I like to challenge them now and again, just to create debate rather than through disagreement - maybe that got out of hand one day. I don't remember though.

I think I was slightly too young for Warrior, though I loved Hogan I think I always found Warrior unnerving as a youngster.
Since growing up I don't get the feeling of nostalgia watching him, the charisma is undeniable as is the tremendous reaction he gets from the audience.
However, I feel the flaws are far too obvious to be considered one of the all time greats.
Re: Warrior personality. I can't really add much more than Daviescrippletart as said but from reading his blogs out of curiosity earlier I don't think I've ever read such reprehensible bigotry. Man's a lunatic. Flatters to deceive with his articulation and is incredibly condescending towards measured arguments presented to him. So I find people holding him in high regard quite suprising to say the least.
Didn't intend for this post to be a character assasination but I suppose that's the thing with Warrior, you can guarantee everyone has something to say about him. Which as a performer in such a flamboyant industry I suppose is all you can ask

Davies, I'd confidently argue that Warrior never relied on promos to sell tickets, Piper, Jake, DiBiase and Heenan would rely on promos to sell tickets

Brady12, that's the first I've heard about a Bret Hart dvd in that mould. Can you give us a bit more info on it?
It'd be interesting to see what wrestlers they'd get in as talking heads to slam Bret

Bonesaw's ready wrote:Brady12, that's the first I've heard about a Bret Hart dvd in that mould. Can you give us a bit more info on it?
It'd be interesting to see what wrestlers they'd get in as talking heads to slam Bret

Bonesaw, there's more knowledgable guys on here (feel free to jump in) but I'll give you what I know. The working title originally was 'Screwed... The Bret Hart Story'... A series of sit down interviews were done with guys who weren't Harts biggest fans at the time Shawn, Hunter etc basically bashing Hart. Kind of The Hitmans own version of Warriors Self destruction DVD. It's only when Hart agreed to endorse the DVD that this idea was scrapped & Hart was given more creative license over the content

the-gaffer wrote:Davies, I'd confidently argue that Warrior never relied on promos to sell tickets, Piper, Jake, DiBiase and Heenan would rely on promos to sell tickets

But isn't that the job of a wrestler? Especially a main eventer? Obviously Warrior had a curiosity factor, ie people wanted to see him up close just because he was so high-energy, but to be a serious draw (especially in the personality-driven WWF/WWE) you need to be able to cut a promo.

Is what the job of a wrestler? If you're asking is it to sell tickets then yes definitely, all I'm saying is that anyone who bought tickets to see the Warrior (and for 3 years he was one of two main draws) didn't buy those tickets off the back of promos, it was the same with Hogan who WAS a good promo, he could sell out a building without saying a word because like Warrior, people just wanted to see him

Gaffer I feel like we could talk about this for a week. I disagree with so much of what you're saying but then you'll just disagree with just as much of what I say, so let's knock this one on the head eh?!

No worries

Thanks Brady, what might have been eh? I'd have been very interested to see that DVD see the light of day. I can imagine it being quite the hatchet job