Pro12: any news?

First topic message reminder :

A month to go  until the league season starts......Any news on when the fixtures are out?

Hey. I agree too. Let's blame it on the PRL though. Focking up a whole season of European rugby with their antics.

Whether you believe they had just cause to begin with or not, even when all their demands were met they still would not give in. They just wanted to shag every one up the dundrum and have everyone say thank you and give them a BJ when they were finished.

If the welsh really take their ball away and don't play in the pro 12 the answer is easy. We replace them with 2 more Italian teams, One Romanian and one Georgian. the welsh teams are then left with no one to play with. the rest of us are pretty fed up with the RRW who have behaved disgracefully.

Risca Rev wrote:I'll agree with Chunky, that it is annoying that there aren't set dates to the fixtures yet. It's also a farce if as expected some league games (Ulster v Dragons as an example) make way for a development cup competition.

Even as a season ticket holder, I can't even begin to plan what time off I need to watch Dragons yet, nor things like can I play or watch club rugby on a Saturday and such like. It is a bit of a joke.

Ulster Rugby e-mail to season ticket holders said the first 11 rounds dates and times will be finalised early next week.

I really, really can't see Ulster agreeing to move the Dragons fixture by the way. The Welsh have already agreed to the fixture list, otherwise it wouldn't be announced, and I'm pretty sure both teams need to consent to any move. The Dragons can't unilaterally cancel the fixture without Ulsters co-operation and I see absolutely no reason why Ulster would want to play that game in an international window when they would plan to give the non-internationals a week off.

The thing is, the same rules probably apply to the LV-Cup. There's no reason the English teams would want to budge to accommodate the Welsh either. It's complete omnishambles from the Welsh Union, if that is who has the final say.

It seems that the 'free' weekend from the Pro12 point of view is the 15th/16th Nov. Scarlets are playing the Blues on the weekend so that can be moved easily (in terms of fixture clash). But Ospreys are playing Gloucester and Dragons are playing Exeter. Neither of these teams could play on the 15th/16th due to premiership fixtures. Something's got to give. Dragons' game is at home but the
Ospreys game is in Gloucester so I can't see them being happy to play one mid-week.

It looks like Guinness (as new Pro12 sponsors) are going after the English market with their promotional material. They are making a promotional video to be played in the UK about Munster beating the All Blacks.

The Guinness clip, which has a working title of Munster - Immortality, will be built around centre Seamus Dennison's early-match tackle on Stu Wilson; a shuddering hit credited for inspiring the Munster team.

The voice-over says: "They were just bus drivers and butchers and builders, 15 unlikely lads. All up against a certain truth: You don't beat the All Blacks. Everyone knows this. Every team, every expert, every crowd.

"Everyone except for little Seamus Dennison. With a single tackle he stopped the rampant All Blacks. Dead. And every Irishman grew 12 feet taller."

The one-minute clip will be uploaded to Guinness' official YouTube channel in time for the start of the 2014-15 European rugby season and will also be broadcast as a promotional clip at movie theatres in the UK.

Seems they are going for the plunky underdogs (PRO12) up against the rich French & English clubs imagery for the League.

Everyone loves the underdog.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/10367892/Munster-mash-of-All-Blacks-all-time-low-point

What's this got to do with the English or French? And don't the Provinces, Scottish and Italian teams run player budgets at or above the English cap? It's only the Welsh who are skint. Although they've by hanging on the Irish (pro12 teams winning ERC) coat tails so it's only fair that the Irish hang on their ('our playing budget is a fiver and two turnips') coat tails.

They are playing it in UK cinemas. Why haven't they gone for a narrative of poor English Prem clubs v. the French clubs?

Er...they're sponsors of the Pro12. If anything it's about the underdogs of Wales against the power houses of Ireland.

The Scottish teams run player budgets near to the old English cap, I don't think that has increased this year. The Provinces are difficult to unscramble due to the centrally contracted players thing and Italy produces nice wine and food, other than that it's a mystery to me.

justified sinner wrote:The Scottish teams run player budgets near to the old English cap, I don't think that has increased this year. The Provinces are difficult to unscramble due to the centrally contracted players thing and Italy produces nice wine and food, other than that it's a mystery to me.

Munster is the only team in the Pro 12 to have beaten the All Blacks.

In all fairness, most brands would run a hundred miles before having anything to do with any of the Welsh Regions.

justified sinner wrote:The Scottish teams run player budgets near to the old English cap, I don't think that has increased this year. The Provinces are difficult to unscramble due to the centrally contracted players thing and Italy produces nice wine and food, other than that it's a mystery to me.

What have they achieved though?

Sin é wrote:

justified sinner wrote:The Scottish teams run player budgets near to the old English cap, I don't think that has increased this year. The Provinces are difficult to unscramble due to the centrally contracted players thing and Italy produces nice wine and food, other than that it's a mystery to me.

Munster is the only team in the Pro 12 to have beaten the All Blacks.

In all fairness, most brands would run a hundred miles before having anything to do with any of the Welsh Regions.

The Scarlets (when they were just a club side) beat the All Blacks the same season as Munster. The Blues (as Cardiff) and Dragons (as Newport) have also beaten New Zealand and have Swansea, who when they and Neath went bankrupt put their playing resources together to form the Ospreys. Ironicly the Regions or super club concept was designed to concentrate talent and create stronger playing sides, the Scarlets side that beat the All Blacks had 9 players who played for the Lions, the current Scarlets squad has none!

No team called Scarlets, Blues, Dragons or Ospreys have beaten the All Blacks. Why would you use them when there actually is a Province/Club who has and is now still achieving (the Munster academy with a few experienced players gave the ABs a decent run in 2008) - like winning the Heineken Cup in recent times and making Top 4 in Europe over the last couple of years.

Welsh rugby is a mess. No sane brand would have anything to do with them.

Oh for god's sake...   

Sin é wrote:

justified sinner wrote:The Scottish teams run player budgets near to the old English cap, I don't think that has increased this year. The Provinces are difficult to unscramble due to the centrally contracted players thing and Italy produces nice wine and food, other than that it's a mystery to me.

Munster is the only team in the Pro 12 to have beaten the All Blacks.

In all fairness, most brands would run a hundred miles before having anything to do with any of the Welsh Regions.

Not in the Professional era have they, 1978

Looks like this is going to digress...

wayne wrote:

Sin é wrote:

justified sinner wrote:The Scottish teams run player budgets near to the old English cap, I don't think that has increased this year. The Provinces are difficult to unscramble due to the centrally contracted players thing and Italy produces nice wine and food, other than that it's a mystery to me.

Munster is the only team in the Pro 12 to have beaten the All Blacks.

In all fairness, most brands would run a hundred miles before having anything to do with any of the Welsh Regions.

Not in the Professional era have they,   1978

Not many clubs get the chance to play the ABs in the Pro era (most can't afford to pay to play against them). Munster ran them close recently (the ABs were lucky with a reffing decision).

Guinness is a premium brand - all about tradition etc. I can only guess why they would choose to promote their brand using the Munster tradition in the UK.

Leinster would also be an obvious choice for Guinness (Irish and good achievers). But it would seem their narrative isn't as interesting as the Munster one.

You're sitting here patting yourself on the back over an ad campaign.

Notch wrote:You're sitting here patting yourself on the back over an ad campaign.

Yea, you should be as well. With the backing of Guinness, the Pro12 is going to be promoted heavily in the UK.

It also helps that Guinness does fairly class promotion.

Sin é wrote:

wayne wrote:

Sin é wrote:

justified sinner wrote:The Scottish teams run player budgets near to the old English cap, I don't think that has increased this year. The Provinces are difficult to unscramble due to the centrally contracted players thing and Italy produces nice wine and food, other than that it's a mystery to me.

Munster is the only team in the Pro 12 to have beaten the All Blacks.

In all fairness, most brands would run a hundred miles before having anything to do with any of the Welsh Regions.

Not in the Professional era have they,   1978

Not many clubs get the chance to play the ABs in the Pro era (most can't afford to pay to play against them). Munster ran them close recently (the ABs were lucky with a reffing decision).

Guinness is a premium brand - all about tradition etc. I can only guess why they would choose to promote their brand using the Munster tradition in the U

Leinster would also be an obvious choice for Guinness (Irish and good achievers). But it would seem their narrative isn't as interesting as the Munster one.

The Ospreys beat the Aussies in the Professional era

I'm happy, Guinness has always been known for their great advertising campaigns and unlike RaboBank or Turkish Airlines they are a world famous brand so they'll help bring the league on a lot, but if they do a film about Ulster beating Australia I'm not going to go onto internet forums boasting about it!

Notch wrote:You're sitting here patting yourself on the back over an ad campaign.

I'm fairly sure it will be good for the Munster brand as well.   

Notch wrote:I'm happy, Guinness has always been known for their great advertising campaigns and unlike RaboBank or Turkish Airlines they are a world famous brand so they'll help bring the league on a lot, but if they do a film about Ulster beating Australia I'm not going to go onto internet forums boasting about it!

They are not doing any films about anyone beating Australia.  

I'm beginning to warm to you Sin. Reading your recent posts it's clear to me that you're lampooning yourself.

I can only assume you took on board criticisms that your posts were becoming increasingly tedious as you struggle to suppress your rampaging nationalism. I applaud you for not only recognizing this, but also being big enough to take the urine out of yourself

Sin é wrote:

justified sinner wrote:The Scottish teams run player budgets near to the old English cap, I don't think that has increased this year. The Provinces are difficult to unscramble due to the centrally contracted players thing and Italy produces nice wine and food, other than that it's a mystery to me.

What have they achieved though?

Yeah...what have the romans ever done for us............

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:I'm beginning to warm to you Sin. Reading your recent posts it's clear to me that you're lampooning yourself.

I can only assume you took on board criticisms that your posts were becoming increasingly tedious as you struggle to suppress your rampaging nationalism. I applaud you for not only recognizing this, but also being big enough to take the urine out of yourself

I don't get where you get the connection of any of my posts to nationalism. Whats your beef with nationalism and why in the name of all that is good would I want to 'suppress' it?

Knackeredknees wrote:

Sin é wrote:

justified sinner wrote:The Scottish teams run player budgets near to the old English cap, I don't think that has increased this year. The Provinces are difficult to unscramble due to the centrally contracted players thing and Italy produces nice wine and food, other than that it's a mystery to me.

What have they achieved though?

Yeah...what have the romans ever done for us............

The theme is David and Goliath. The story doesn't work if David doesn't win   

How much do Guinness sponsor the pro12 again?

Six pints 

 

Fixtures out at 2:30 today. we can all book our away trips. Finally!

Chunky Norwich wrote:How much do Guinness sponsor the pro12 again?

With the carry-on from the Welsh Clubs, the Pro12 probably have to pay Guinness to be associated with it.   

Sin é wrote:the Pro12 probably have to pay Guinness to be associated with it.   

Wouldn't be surprised in the slightest.[/quote]

Does anybody (other than American tourists) actually drink Guinness? It's 'orrible stuff.

They have a history of some good adverts but it wouldn't tempt me to drink any of their product.

Cyril wrote:Does anybody (other than American tourists) actually drink Guinness? It's 'orrible stuff.

They have a history of some good adverts but it wouldn't tempt me to drink any of their product.

More of a Carlsberg, Fosters, Carling, Strongbow man are you?

Guinness has a huge client base, most people I know myself drink nothing but the stuff and I doubt that it's not just an Irish thing, the locals in Barbados love the stuff too. Personally I prefer a proper ale, you English have extreme luxury when it comes to beers and ales.

Good to hear he fixtures are finally out and lets hope there can be some sanity in Wales for the sake of the fans.

Welsh posters complaining about the pro 12 is like chavs destroying their council house and then complaining about the state of it to the council.

(Joke OK. Don't get too excited about it)

One of the main reasons for the delay is the return of Setanta to the fold as far as screening games go; thats for the overseas market I think.

http://www.setanta.com/asia/Our-Sports/Rugby/RaboDirect-Pro12/

Notch wrote:One of the main reasons for the delay is the return of Setanta to the fold as far as screening games go; thats for the overseas market I think.

http://www.setanta.com/asia/Our-Sports/Rugby/RaboDirect-Pro12/

Setanta have always screened the pro12 overseas. Their "return" to the fold might be in Ireland.

St John The Enforcer wrote:Welsh posters complaining about the pro 12 is like chavs destroying their council house and then complaining about the state of it to the council.

(Joke OK. Don't get too excited about it)

I'm confused, havn't the Welsh media basically supplemented the league for years?

Also little known fact, possibly, but there are 5 guinness factories worldwide, 3 of which are in Africa, 1 in Nigeria that only supplies Nigeria! They have become the worlds leading consumer of the stuff, consuming more than Ireland, and apparently the UK recently.

Cameroon are due to overtake Ireland in Guinness consumption soon, and nearly 50% (somewhere between 45% and 47%)of Guinness sales are to the Nigerian public!

Found that out when there, was amazed, and had to take the tour!!!

Guinness do not promote that much do they, considering they were originated as a human rights organization.

Neutralee wrote:

I'm confused, havn't the Welsh media basically supplemented the league for years?

Shhhhh. The Irish don't like to talk about the Welsh subsidising their rugby.

Pete330v2 wrote:Guinness has a huge client base, most people I know myself drink nothing but the stuff and I doubt that it's not just an Irish thing, the locals in Barbados love the stuff too. Personally I prefer a proper ale, you English have extreme luxury when it comes to beers and ales.

Good to hear he fixtures are finally out and lets hope there can be some sanity in Wales for the sake of the fans.

If it's anything like the shoite they brew under licence in Grenada and 'call' Guinness, then it's absolutely foul, and doesn't actually resemble Guinness in any way shape or form..

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Neutralee wrote:

I'm confused, havn't the Welsh media basically supplemented the league for years?

Shhhhh. The Irish don't like to talk about the Welsh subsidising their rugby.

Not sure if your being sarcastic, but an article I read was that 60% of league funding was from S4C and BBCW.

Jimpy wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:Guinness has a huge client base, most people I know myself drink nothing but the stuff and I doubt that it's not just an Irish thing, the locals in Barbados love the stuff too. Personally I prefer a proper ale, you English have extreme luxury when it comes to beers and ales.

Good to hear he fixtures are finally out and lets hope there can be some sanity in Wales for the sake of the fans.

If it's anything like the shoite they brew under licence in Grenada and 'call' Guinness, then it's absolutely foul, and doesn't actually resemble Guinness in any way shape or form..

True, it was Guinness by name only, tasted like they had added a mound of sugar to each bottle.

Neutralee wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Neutralee wrote:

I'm confused, havn't the Welsh media basically supplemented the league for years?

Shhhhh. The Irish don't like to talk about the Welsh subsidising their rugby.

Not sure if your being sarcastic, but an article I read was that 60% of league funding was from S4C and BBCW.

Yes. That's my point.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Cyril wrote:Does anybody (other than American tourists) actually drink Guinness? It's 'orrible stuff.

They have a history of some good adverts but it wouldn't tempt me to drink any of their product.

More of a Carlsberg, Fosters, Carling, Strongbow man are you?

God no! I don't drink lager or cider.

Proper ale is the way forward. Preferably local micro-breweries. Being a Yorkshireman means there's a cracking choice round here. None of your mass-produced tourist muck

Neutralee wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Neutralee wrote:

I'm confused, havn't the Welsh media basically supplemented the league for years?

Shhhhh. The Irish don't like to talk about the Welsh subsidising their rugby.

Not sure if your being sarcastic, but an article I read was that 60% of league funding was from S4C and BBCW.

The league's accounts showed a profit /turnover of 12m last year for the last 2 years. Is someone claiming that BBC Wales were paying 7.2m per annum for the media rights?

The most I've heard is that it was BBC Wales were paying about 4m.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Neutralee wrote:

I'm confused, havn't the Welsh media basically supplemented the league for years?

Shhhhh. The Irish don't like to talk about the Welsh subsidising their rugby.

If anyone is subsidising the PRO12, its the BBC Licence fee's, most of which could from English people, not Welsh, Scottish or N Irish.

Sin é wrote:

Neutralee wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Neutralee wrote:

I'm confused, havn't the Welsh media basically supplemented the league for years?

Shhhhh. The Irish don't like to talk about the Welsh subsidising their rugby.

Not sure if your being sarcastic, but an article I read was that 60% of league funding was from S4C and BBCW.

The league's accounts showed a profit /turnover of 12m last year for the last 2 years. Is someone claiming that BBC Wales were paying 7.2m per annum for the media rights?

The most I've heard is that it was BBC Wales were paying about 4m.

Not sure about the numbers, just read that they were heavily subsidising the league. Weren't the Italians paying in too, and then some minor sponsors such as alba, BBC NI, RTE etc... weren't Setanta Ireland showing games delayed too at one point to avoid paying out?

So why did you post 60% if you were not sure of the numbers?

Yes, and the Italians did contribute 3m per annum.

Why would Setanta pay for something that is already being broadcast on FTA tv?

There was talk that the 'new' BBC deal was going to be about half what it was before due to Sky getting the primary rights. The new BBCW deal (which includes S4C) is supposed to be about £3.5M. So if you double that then previous the Welsh TV was worth about £7M. Not far off 60%.

That's just a rough guess though.