Belgian GP Thread - Containing Spoilers of Race & Qualifying

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Post by Fernando on Tue 19 Aug 2014, 3:04 pm

First topic message reminder :

The 2014 Belgian GP preview: Everything you need to know about this weekend's race!
The F1 action resumes after the summer break at the legendary Spa-Francorchamps circuit.
So read on below as Sky Sports Online provides your one-stop shop for everything you need to know about the grand prix weekend.

The 2014 Belgian GP in a nutshell
Track: Circuit de Spa-Francorchamps. Permanent circuit.
Race start time: 1pm UK time Sunday (2pm local).
Laps: 44.
Track length: 7.004 km.
Tyre allocation: Medium (white) and soft (yellow). 
DRS Zones: Two with separate detection points – pit straight and Kemmel Straight.
Driver steward: TBA.
Lap record: Sebastian Vettel - 1:47.263 (Red Bull; 2009).
2013 pole: Lewis Hamilton - 2:01.012 (Mercedes).
Form guide
Kimi Raikkonen is the most successful of the current drivers in Belgium, having won the race on four occasions. However, he still trails Michael Schumacher who is out in front with six victories.
Sebastian Vettel is the only other multiple winner amongst those on the 2014 grid having stood atop the podium in 2011 and 2013.
2013 result: 1. Sebastian Vettel (Red Bull); 2. Fernando Alonso (Ferrari); 3. Lewis Hamilton (Mercedes); 4. Nico Rosberg (Mercedes); 5. Mark Webber (Red Bull); 6. Jenson Button (McLaren); 7. Felipe Massa (Ferrari); 8. Romain Grosjean (Lotus); 9. Adrian Sutil (Force India); 10. Daniel Ricciardo (Toro Rosso).
Last five winners in Belgium: 2013: Sebastian Vettel (Red Bull); 2012: Jenson Button (McLaren); 2011: Sebastian Vettel (Red Bull); 2010: Lewis Hamilton (McLaren); 2009: Kimi Raikkonen (Ferrari).
Pirelli will bring the white-marked medium and yellow-banded soft tyres to Spa-Francorchamps – a step softer with both compounds than last year.
“Spa is one of the most epic circuits of the year, and a track we know well from our experience of GT racing at the Spa 24 Hours too,” Pirelli Motorsport Director Paul Hembery said. 
“This is because of the length of the lap, meaning also that strategy is a very big factor in Spa: there is more time to be won and lost by being on the right tyre at the right time than at many other venues. It’s the sort of race where, under the right circumstances, it’s absolutely possible to go from last to first – and that always makes for a very exciting grand prix.”“An adaptable tyre is the key element, able to work equally well within the very wide range of track and weather conditions that we often see in Belgium. Despite the fact that tyre wear and degradation is traditionally high at Spa – the result of the multiple energy loadings put through the tyres – we have been able to nominate the soft tyres here as well as the medium for the first time since 2011, with the softer option liable to be the preferred choice in qualifying due to a significant time gap. 

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Post by bogbrush on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 8:24 pm

Why didn't he back out, Calder? Well two options are

- To pop his tyre without damaging his own car?

- Or to push his elbows out to make Hamilton twitch a bit and send him a message?


Ooh now, that's a tough one..... give me time.


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Post by Guest on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 8:25 pm

You really are embarrassing yourself bog brush with your posts

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Post by bogbrush on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 8:27 pm

John wrote:You really are embarrassing yourself bog brush with your posts
Really? I'm not the one thinking a guy can puncture tyres with a flimsy bit of wing and come off unscathed, or soiling myself when my hero misreports a meeting to that effect.
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Post by mystiroakey on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 8:27 pm

Rosberg didn't back out because he lost pole. He was annoyed and lh is his only threat to the WDC. He was fired up and saw red mist. Off course he is going to back out against another driver that isn't a threat to him when LH is on zero points for he race.

Actually when you see the analysis on SSN. You can see him turn straight back in to lh.. It really was a horrible move by rosberg.

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Post by bogbrush on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 8:29 pm

mystiroakey wrote:Rosberg didn't back out because he lost pole. He was annoyed and lh is his only threat to the WDC. He was fired up and saw red mist. Off course he is going to back out against another driver that isn't a threat to him when  LH is on zero points for he race.

Actually when you see the analysis on SSN. You can see him turn straight back in to lh.. It really was a horrible move by rosberg.
So you're reversing your reversed opinion and saying he did deliberately hit him?

It's so hard to keep up.
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Post by mystiroakey on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 8:33 pm

bogbrush wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:Rosberg didn't back out because he lost pole. He was annoyed and lh is his only threat to the WDC. He was fired up and saw red mist. Off course he is going to back out against another driver that isn't a threat to him when  LH is on zero points for he race.

Actually when you see the analysis on SSN. You can see him turn straight back in to lh.. It really was a horrible move by rosberg.
So you're reversing your reversed opinion and saying he did deliberately hit him?

It's so hard to keep up.

Have a look at the move..

He turns straight back in. We are constantly being given new info. You are just on here threating without actually watching it unfold.

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Post by Hulking_up on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 8:35 pm

mystiroakey wrote:The words were.

I could have backed out but I didn't to prove a point.

If you can't wok out what that means you have lost it bogbrush.

According to the BBC site Hamilton said ""He said he could have avoided it, but he didn't want to. He basically said, 'I did it to prove a point'."

That sounds to me Rosberg could have avoided the collision if he wanted to.

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Post by mystiroakey on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 8:36 pm

bogbrush wrote:
John wrote:You really are embarrassing yourself bog brush with your posts
Really? I'm not the one thinking a guy can puncture tyres with a flimsy bit of wing and come off unscathed, or soiling myself when my hero misreports a meeting to that effect.

Not one person thinks that. It was a red mist move that could have cost him self more. As I said before if he actually planned to puncture lh it would have been one of the moves of the century ...rosberg isn't that skilled pal.

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Post by Hulking_up on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 8:37 pm

What the point is though i'm not sure.

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Post by bogbrush on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 8:37 pm

May. Ask you to identify which you think happened?

1. Rosberg hit him deliberately with a view to coming of fun damaged

2. Rosberg hit him deliberately without care for himself

3. Rosberg was overly aggressive but actual impact was unintended.

4. Hamilton could have left him more room.


It'll be easier if people stated which they think.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 8:38 pm

This is all just conjecture at this moment

I'm yet to see this Mercedes quote, Hamilton is stirring the pot with his comments, and its pretty clear what was just a racing incident (which could've affected Rosberg worse than Hamilton, this time it was just bad luck for Lewis) is now turning into a really rather ridiculous drama.

I hope Riccardo wins the title just for the lolz
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Post by bogbrush on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 8:39 pm

Hulking_up wrote:What the point is though i'm not sure.
Whenever anyone paraphrases someone and says 'basically he said.......' the misrepresentation alarms go off.
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Post by bogbrush on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 8:41 pm

mystiroakey wrote:
bogbrush wrote:
John wrote:You really are embarrassing yourself bog brush with your posts
Really? I'm not the one thinking a guy can puncture tyres with a flimsy bit of wing and come off unscathed, or soiling myself when my hero misreports a meeting to that effect.

Not one person thinks that. It was a red mist move that could have cost him self more. As I said before if he actually planned to puncture lh it would have been one of the moves of the century ...rosberg isn't that skilled pal.
Yet at 8.02 you said "He hit him to prove a point yes. And admitted it"
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Post by Calder106 on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 8:43 pm

bogbrush wrote:Why didn't he back out, Calder?  Well two options are

- To pop his tyre without damaging his own car?

- Or to push his elbows out to make Hamilton twitch a bit and send him a message?


Ooh now, that's a tough one..... give me time.

Well I'll go for the message option which seems to be when I've started a race in front of you and ended up behind you I expect :

- The team to tell you to let me through

or

- I'll try and overtake you on the first opportunity and even you have the racing line I'll keep my line and take a chance on the outcome.


If you read my first post on this thread I was comfortable it being considered a racing incident but questioned why Rosberg was trying pass at such an early time in the race (Wolff and Lauda also question this).

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Post by Fernando on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 8:44 pm

Mercedes boss Toto Wolff insists the accident between Lewis Hamilton and Nico Rosberg at the Belgian Grand Prix was not deliberate, but that Rosberg was trying to make a point by not backing out.

"Nico felt he needed to hold his line [in the corner]," Wolff said. "He needed to make a point, and for Lewis, it was clearly not him who needed to be aware of Nico. He [Rosberg] didn't give in. He thought it was for Lewis to leave him space, and that Lewis didn't leave him space.

"So they agreed to disagree in a very heated discussion amongst ourselves, but it wasn't deliberately crashing. That is nonsense. It was deliberately taking into account that if Lewis moves or would open then it could end up in a crash.

"What we saw there was that Nico was not prepared to take the exit, and that caused the collision. That is not something we want to happen."

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Post by mystiroakey on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 8:44 pm

bogbrush wrote:May. Ask you to identify which you think happened?

1. Rosberg hit him deliberately with a view to coming of fun damaged

2. Rosberg hit him deliberately without care for himself

3. Rosberg was overly aggressive but actual impact was unintended.

4. Hamilton could have left him more room.


It'll be easier if people stated which they think.

After re watching the moves in detail. There is a clear move back inside at the end which causes impact when his front wing is level to Lewis's back wheel.

I think rosberg was annoyed he missed out on the overtake and either tried to get back behind lh quickly or just saw red mist and deliberately did it. I have no idea. But either way it was rosbergs fault, either by misjudging the situation or by being an idiot.

I hope its the first . but after his comments I am not sure. So its 2 or 3. As I said I hope its 3

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Post by bogbrush on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 8:46 pm

Ooh look......

However, Wolff said Rosberg's remarks had been misinterpreted.
Wolff admitted Hamilton had accurately represented what Rosberg said, but added: "Nico felt he needed to hold his line. He needed to make a point and for Lewis it was clearly not him who needed to be aware of Nico.
"(Rosberg) didn't give in. He thought it was for Lewis to leave him space and that Lewis didn't leave him space.
"So they agreed to disagree in a very heated discussion among ourselves, but it wasn't deliberately crashing. That is nonsense."

After Hamilton disobeying instructions last time Rosberg (and when you look back to their first race when Rosberg was told to stay behind him) Nico has obviously decided it was time to show he was Alpha too, by holding the line.


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Post by mystiroakey on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 8:50 pm

Wolf has to say that otherwise merc could be in serious trouble bog.

But either way you have to understand the situation .. I hope rosberg didn't mean it and that lh got it wrong. But it was still rosbergs fault and lh is going to be fuming. That is a normal reaction. They are top of the tree sportsmen.. They get wound up ...

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Post by bogbrush on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 8:53 pm

It's hours later, tempers should cool by now.

Hamilton shouldn't be coming out telling lies about what Rosbergs intention was. The BBC has understandably gone into a massive groupw**k over it to declare what punishments could be meted out but wiser heads know this began in their first race together and Rosbergs had enough of being pushed around.

I thought Wolffs statement was self-evidently correct.
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Post by mystiroakey on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 8:55 pm

But can you admit that the incident was rosbergs fault?

I will admit lewis is fuming and gutted and could be misrepresenting the situation.. Now its your turn.

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Post by mystiroakey on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 8:57 pm

Remember that wolf has stated that lewis clearly didn't need to be aware of Nico, he is 100% blaming nico but not saying it was intentional but instead clumsy..

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Post by Calder106 on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 8:58 pm

So what was Rosberg's intention ? He didn't have the space to go past but decided to keep his line. 'To make a point'. He didn't try to make the same point with Vettel later in the race.

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Post by Guest on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 9:01 pm

Bogbrush you really are dumb. Toto 'Hamilton has accurately represented what Nico said' but then you label Hamilton for lying about Nico's comments. R u still labelling Hamilton petulant for wanting to quit & save his engine unit to avoid a punishment later in the season. Dumb comment.

Mercedes down playing things is to be expected, the immediate reaction of Toto showed his true feelings. Don't care if he did it on purpose, he still caused the incident & denied Hamilton. 29 point lead is nothing given all the issues LH has endured. Still hopeful of this WDC for Lewis. Good to see Vettel smashed again by DR.

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Post by bogbrush on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 9:01 pm

Calder106 wrote:So what was Rosberg's intention ? He didn't have the space to go past but decided to keep his line. 'To make a point'. He didn't try to make the same point with Vettel later in the race.
Well what do you think?

It was obvious that he was showing Hamilton he wasn't going to be pushed around, and was playing it super Claie. He was a couple of cm away from not hitting.

I also think he looked to switch back inside very tight after the turn.

I don't for an instant think he was so self-destructive or stupid as to hit him deliberately. I can't believe anyone would think that.
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Post by Calder106 on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 9:03 pm

bogbrush wrote:
Calder106 wrote:So what was Rosberg's intention ? He didn't have the space to go past but decided to keep his line. 'To make a point'. He didn't try to make the same point with Vettel later in the race.
Well what do you think?

It was obvious that he was showing Hamilton he wasn't going to be pushed around, and was playing it super Claie. He was a couple of cm away from not hitting.

I also think he looked to switch back inside very tight after the turn.

I don't for an instant think he was so self-destructive or stupid as to hit him deliberately. I can't believe anyone would think that.

???

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Post by bogbrush on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 9:05 pm

John wrote:Bogbrush you really are dumb. Toto 'Hamilton has accurately represented what Nico said' but then you label Hamilton for lying about Nico's comments. R u still labelling Hamilton petulant for wanting to quit & save his engine unit to avoid a punishment later in the season. Dumb comment.

Mercedes down playing things is to be expected, the immediate reaction of Toto showed his true feelings. Don't care if he did it on purpose, he still caused the incident & denied Hamilton. 29 point lead is nothing given all the issues LH has endured. Still hopeful of this WDC for Lewis. Good to see Vettel smashed again by DR.
No, I'm not dumb, like I say I'm not the one rushing to absurd conclusions. Or creaming myself over Lewis latest petulance.

Yes, he whined as so as the new tyres were on 'no way will these last guys'. He whines race after race, year after year. He whined his way off the track despite his engineer telling him over and over that they had no worries over the engine, and finally let him leave 7/8 laps before the end  Laugh 

Good to see you contradict yourself in one post; one minute Toto is the authority, next he's playing it down. Make your mind up would you?
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Post by bogbrush on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 9:06 pm

Calder106 wrote:
bogbrush wrote:
Calder106 wrote:So what was Rosberg's intention ? He didn't have the space to go past but decided to keep his line. 'To make a point'. He didn't try to make the same point with Vettel later in the race.
Well what do you think?

It was obvious that he was showing Hamilton he wasn't going to be pushed around, and was playing it super Claie. He was a couple of cm away from not hitting.

I also think he looked to switch back inside very tight after the turn.

I don't for an instant think he was so self-destructive or stupid as to hit him deliberately. I can't believe anyone would think that.

???
He only just caught the tyre. A few centimetres back and there'd have been no contact.
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Post by sikhlion on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 9:07 pm

On another note Ricciardo would make a great world champion seems like a top bloke and a good racer!

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Post by bogbrush on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 9:07 pm

mystiroakey wrote:Remember that wolf has stated that lewis clearly didn't need to be aware of Nico, he is 100% blaming nico but not saying it was intentional but instead clumsy..
Yes, and that's the correct interpretation.
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Post by Guest on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 9:08 pm

You proved nothing there and didn't answer my post. Hamilton whining, I think you will find Nico has been crying most races over he radio to engineer overtakes he can't perform.

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Post by bogbrush on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 9:11 pm

John wrote:You proved nothing there and didn't answer my post. Hamilton whining, I think you will find Nico has been crying most races over he radio to engineer overtakes he can't perform.
Maybe they're a pair of whiners. I give Nico the benefit of some doubt as he's not been doing it for the last five years or so.
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 9:11 pm

I cannot comment on the incident as I was working and so missed the race. Great win for Ricciardo though and trouncing his team-mate as well. Bet somewhere that Mark Webber is content just now for his fellow countryman.
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Post by mystiroakey on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 9:12 pm

sikhlion wrote:On another note Ricciardo would make a great world champion seems like a top bloke and a good racer!
Yep if Rb were just slightly better he could have won this, whilst rosberg and LH ruin each other.


One day that kid will be the best.

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Post by Calder106 on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 9:13 pm

But he did hit him and effectively put him out of any chance of winning the race. I've never said anywhere on the thread it was deliberate but surely if a driver has time to see the space isn't there and holds his line then the chances of contact are pretty high.

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Post by Gerry SA on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 9:20 pm

mystiroakey wrote:Gerry...

You don't want two no.1 drivers in a top team. Its just a proven fact. It causes to many issues. You need a no.1 and a no.2 if the are competing for the divers title.

Yes rosberg or lewis will be off. But don't expect it to deffo be lh leaving this time. Things could be changing. But the last thing anyone wants in the best team is the type of combination we have today . Don't put vettel, rosberg, Hamilton or Alonso together. If one other car is close to you they will end up wining the drivers title.

Let's say it stays the same but RB come back. Riccardo and vettel could have the same issues as well. We need the Webber's and massas of this world.. Sadly..
Sorry but even if Nico becomes 2014 world champion, he's not as marketable as Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel or Kimi. 

Rosberg is in the same bracket as Button. He's a B side driver. 

Please note B side doesn't mean a number 2 driver. In terms of revenue Rosberg/Button can't make the money the other 4 drivers I mentioned can. 

Vettel would go to Mercedes as their A side. No doubts about it at all.

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Post by Gerry SA on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 9:21 pm

Daniel Ricciardo won't ever be world champion. Take it from me. 

Bottas is the next superstar.

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Post by mystiroakey on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 9:23 pm

Gerry SA wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:Gerry...

You don't want two no.1 drivers in a top team. Its just a proven fact. It causes to many issues. You need a no.1 and a no.2 if the are competing for the divers title.

Yes rosberg or lewis will be off. But don't expect it to deffo be lh leaving this time. Things could be changing. But the last thing anyone wants in the best team is the type of combination we have today . Don't put vettel, rosberg, Hamilton or Alonso together. If one other car is close to you they will end up wining the drivers title.

Let's say it stays the same but RB come back. Riccardo and vettel could have the same issues as well. We need the Webber's and massas of this world.. Sadly..
Sorry but even if Nico becomes 2014 world champion, he's not as marketable as Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel or Kimi. 

Rosberg is in the same bracket as Button. He's a B side driver. 

Please note B side doesn't mean a number 2 driver. In terms of revenue Rosberg/Button can't make the money the other 4 drivers I mentioned can. 

Vettel would go to Mercedes as their A side. No doubts about it at all.

But what if merc are in the same position as this year(100% 2 horse race) and rosberg gets the luck again...

If vettel goes to merc, rosberg and lh will leave and they will get a massa type to come in.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 9:26 pm

Gerry SA wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:Gerry...

You don't want two no.1 drivers in a top team. Its just a proven fact. It causes to many issues. You need a no.1 and a no.2 if the are competing for the divers title.

Yes rosberg or lewis will be off. But don't expect it to deffo be lh leaving this time. Things could be changing. But the last thing anyone wants in the best team is the type of combination we have today . Don't put vettel, rosberg, Hamilton or Alonso together. If one other car is close to you they will end up wining the drivers title.

Let's say it stays the same but RB come back. Riccardo and vettel could have the same issues as well. We need the Webber's and massas of this world.. Sadly..
Sorry but even if Nico becomes 2014 world champion, he's not as marketable as Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel or Kimi. 

Rosberg is in the same bracket as Button. He's a B side driver. 

Please note B side doesn't mean a number 2 driver. In terms of revenue Rosberg/Button can't make the money the other 4 drivers I mentioned can. 

Vettel would go to Mercedes as their A side. No doubts about it at all.

Yes Gerry but if Nico is the one to move on at Mercedes and Hamilton stays there is no way they could bring Alonso, Vettel or anyone else of that ilk into the team as it would be a massive clash of egos and personalities and destined for disaster. If Vettel or Alonso move to Mercedes the only way it would work (in my opinion) would be by moving Hamilton on as well and bring in a lesser driver if you will - a Danny Kyvatt or Jean iEric Vergne type driver.


Last edited by CaledonianCraig on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 9:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by mystiroakey on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 9:27 pm

Gerry SA wrote:Daniel Ricciardo won't ever be world champion. Take it from me. 

Bottas is the next superstar.

Is Ricardo a clubman? Or a cart racer Gerry .. Nah I won't take it from you pal Wink


I do love me bottas though. I just think Riccardo is quality.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 9:31 pm

Gerry SA wrote:Daniel Ricciardo won't ever be world champion. Take it from me. 


Very odd. How do you account for Ricciardo ripping apart Vettel (who some on this forum swear is an all-time great of the sport) then?
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Post by Gerry SA on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 9:33 pm

mystiroakey wrote:
Gerry SA wrote:Daniel Ricciardo won't ever be world champion. Take it from me. 

Bottas is the next superstar.

Is Ricardo a clubman? Or a cart racer Gerry .. Nah I won't take it from you pal Wink


I do love me bottas though. I just think Riccardo is quality.
I think Bottas is truly brilliant. He's a mix of Mika and Kimi for me. 
Ricciardo is a good driver and I expect him to join Ferrari one day. 
But I believe Bottas could become the greatest Finn to ever race in F1. 

Ricciardo isn't a clubman either. Think that goes to Eriksen lol

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Post by Gerry SA on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 9:35 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
Gerry SA wrote:Daniel Ricciardo won't ever be world champion. Take it from me. 


Very odd. How do you account for Ricciardo ripping apart Vettel (who some on this forum swear is an all-time great of the sport) then?
Ricciardo has a 58 point lead with 200 still to play for. Well speak after Abu Dhabi. 

And Vettel is an all time great.

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Post by Gerry SA on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 9:37 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
Gerry SA wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:Gerry...

You don't want two no.1 drivers in a top team. Its just a proven fact. It causes to many issues. You need a no.1 and a no.2 if the are competing for the divers title.

Yes rosberg or lewis will be off. But don't expect it to deffo be lh leaving this time. Things could be changing. But the last thing anyone wants in the best team is the type of combination we have today . Don't put vettel, rosberg, Hamilton or Alonso together. If one other car is close to you they will end up wining the drivers title.

Let's say it stays the same but RB come back. Riccardo and vettel could have the same issues as well. We need the Webber's and massas of this world.. Sadly..
Sorry but even if Nico becomes 2014 world champion, he's not as marketable as Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel or Kimi. 

Rosberg is in the same bracket as Button. He's a B side driver. 

Please note B side doesn't mean a number 2 driver. In terms of revenue Rosberg/Button can't make the money the other 4 drivers I mentioned can. 

Vettel would go to Mercedes as their A side. No doubts about it at all.

Yes Gerry but if Nico is the one to move on at Mercedes and Hamilton stays there is no way they could bring Alonso, Vettel or anyone else of that ilk into the team as it would be a massive clash of egos and personalities and destined for disaster. If Vettel or Alonso move to Mercedes the only way it would work (in my opinion) would be by moving Hamilton on as well and bring in a lesser driver if you will - a Danny Kyvatt or Jean iEric Vergne type driver.
I think at this stage of their careers Hamilton and Alonso can work as a partnership. 

Whilst both have big egos, they are firm but far. 

You'd never see Hamilton or Alonso try to injure each other or anyone else for that matter. 

Plus Mercedes want the WCC, aside from Vettel(whom won't partner Hamilton) there's no one better in the grid than the fantastic Spaniard.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 9:41 pm

Ricciardo (debut season in the team) three race wins to Vettel's zilch. Sorry but people I see as all-time greats don't get so owned by a relative rookie to the sport. Look at Alonso - he always holds the edge over his team-mates, Senna was the same as was Schumacher.

Wait until after Abu Dhabi if you wish but the first half of the season cannot be erased in that Ricciardo has dominated Vettel. Now either Ricciardo is destined for great things to do that to an all-time great or Ricciardo won't go onto great things and so we must ask how is an all-time great being so readily beaten for half a season by such a driver?
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 9:43 pm

Gerry SA wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Gerry SA wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:Gerry...

You don't want two no.1 drivers in a top team. Its just a proven fact. It causes to many issues. You need a no.1 and a no.2 if the are competing for the divers title.

Yes rosberg or lewis will be off. But don't expect it to deffo be lh leaving this time. Things could be changing. But the last thing anyone wants in the best team is the type of combination we have today . Don't put vettel, rosberg, Hamilton or Alonso together. If one other car is close to you they will end up wining the drivers title.

Let's say it stays the same but RB come back. Riccardo and vettel could have the same issues as well. We need the Webber's and massas of this world.. Sadly..
Sorry but even if Nico becomes 2014 world champion, he's not as marketable as Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel or Kimi. 

Rosberg is in the same bracket as Button. He's a B side driver. 

Please note B side doesn't mean a number 2 driver. In terms of revenue Rosberg/Button can't make the money the other 4 drivers I mentioned can. 

Vettel would go to Mercedes as their A side. No doubts about it at all.

Yes Gerry but if Nico is the one to move on at Mercedes and Hamilton stays there is no way they could bring Alonso, Vettel or anyone else of that ilk into the team as it would be a massive clash of egos and personalities and destined for disaster. If Vettel or Alonso move to Mercedes the only way it would work (in my opinion) would be by moving Hamilton on as well and bring in a lesser driver if you will - a Danny Kyvatt or Jean iEric Vergne type driver.
I think at this stage of their careers Hamilton and Alonso can work as a partnership. 

Whilst both have big egos, they are firm but far. 

You'd never see Hamilton or Alonso try to injure each other or anyone else for that matter. 

Plus Mercedes want the WCC, aside from Vettel(whom won't partner Hamilton) there's no one better in the grid than the fantastic Spaniard.

No the Alonso/Hamilton partnership is proven not to work (at McLaren) and can't see that anything has changed since then.
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Post by Gerry SA on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 9:45 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:Ricciardo (debut season in the team) three race wins to Vettel's zilch. Sorry but people I see as all-time greats don't get so owned by a relative rookie to the sport. Look at Alonso - he always holds the edge over his team-mates, Senna was the same as was Schumacher.

Wait until after Abu Dhabi if you wish but the first half of the season cannot be erased in that Ricciardo has dominated Vettel. Now either Ricciardo is destined for great things to do that to an all-time great or Ricciardo won't go onto great things and so we must ask how is an all-time great being so readily beaten for half a season by such a driver?
Sorry Craig but the season is 19 races long. 

So Ricciardo has had the rub of the green this far, does that mean Vettel will never win again? Clearly not. 

Vettel could win 3/4 races towards the end of the season and then what? Ricciardo had a purple patch? 

We'll see after 19 races.

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Post by GSC on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 9:52 pm

Vettel hasn't hit top form in the new F1 yet for sure, Ricciardos hit the ground running.

Doesn't help that Vettel has inherited Mark Webbers car either. Taking third in quali was a decent result given his car got rebuilt twice over the weekend.
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 9:54 pm

Ricciardo has had a DQ and a DNF so that is two races where no points are a certainty which is only one race less than Vettel so would hardly call that any rub of the green. Ricciardo has just been the far quicker driver to date. Why? Vettel is supposedly an all-time great so why has he been so readily beaten by a newbie to the team? As I said, drivers I see as all-time greats have always held the upper hand on their team-mates even if they are not in the reckoning for the world title they still have their team-mate under their thumb.
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Post by bogbrush on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 9:55 pm

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Post by GSC on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 9:58 pm

Rosberg has a DNF and a race where his brakes basically failed.

Yet Hamilton has all the bad luck. Sorry Craig, can't have it both ways
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