Belgian GP Thread - Containing Spoilers of Race & Qualifying

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Post by Fernando on Tue 19 Aug 2014, 3:04 pm

First topic message reminder :

The 2014 Belgian GP preview: Everything you need to know about this weekend's race!
The F1 action resumes after the summer break at the legendary Spa-Francorchamps circuit.
So read on below as Sky Sports Online provides your one-stop shop for everything you need to know about the grand prix weekend.

The 2014 Belgian GP in a nutshell
Track: Circuit de Spa-Francorchamps. Permanent circuit.
Race start time: 1pm UK time Sunday (2pm local).
Laps: 44.
Track length: 7.004 km.
Tyre allocation: Medium (white) and soft (yellow). 
DRS Zones: Two with separate detection points – pit straight and Kemmel Straight.
Driver steward: TBA.
Lap record: Sebastian Vettel - 1:47.263 (Red Bull; 2009).
2013 pole: Lewis Hamilton - 2:01.012 (Mercedes).
Form guide
Kimi Raikkonen is the most successful of the current drivers in Belgium, having won the race on four occasions. However, he still trails Michael Schumacher who is out in front with six victories.
Sebastian Vettel is the only other multiple winner amongst those on the 2014 grid having stood atop the podium in 2011 and 2013.
2013 result: 1. Sebastian Vettel (Red Bull); 2. Fernando Alonso (Ferrari); 3. Lewis Hamilton (Mercedes); 4. Nico Rosberg (Mercedes); 5. Mark Webber (Red Bull); 6. Jenson Button (McLaren); 7. Felipe Massa (Ferrari); 8. Romain Grosjean (Lotus); 9. Adrian Sutil (Force India); 10. Daniel Ricciardo (Toro Rosso).
Last five winners in Belgium: 2013: Sebastian Vettel (Red Bull); 2012: Jenson Button (McLaren); 2011: Sebastian Vettel (Red Bull); 2010: Lewis Hamilton (McLaren); 2009: Kimi Raikkonen (Ferrari).
Pirelli will bring the white-marked medium and yellow-banded soft tyres to Spa-Francorchamps – a step softer with both compounds than last year.
“Spa is one of the most epic circuits of the year, and a track we know well from our experience of GT racing at the Spa 24 Hours too,” Pirelli Motorsport Director Paul Hembery said. 
“This is because of the length of the lap, meaning also that strategy is a very big factor in Spa: there is more time to be won and lost by being on the right tyre at the right time than at many other venues. It’s the sort of race where, under the right circumstances, it’s absolutely possible to go from last to first – and that always makes for a very exciting grand prix.”“An adaptable tyre is the key element, able to work equally well within the very wide range of track and weather conditions that we often see in Belgium. Despite the fact that tyre wear and degradation is traditionally high at Spa – the result of the multiple energy loadings put through the tyres – we have been able to nominate the soft tyres here as well as the medium for the first time since 2011, with the softer option liable to be the preferred choice in qualifying due to a significant time gap. 

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Post by Gerry SA on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 6:55 pm

John spouting pure tripe once again. 

Get with it, Hamilton is a bum. Nothing more. 

Hamilton fluked a world championship when Massa deserved to be champion. 

Hamilton is a second tier driver. 

Rosberg is making Hamilton his b!tch.

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Post by Guest on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 7:13 pm

Yeah, ignore the points, just label people fanboys. GSC you getting boring with your responses. Just need bog now to complete the set of idiots Laugh

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Post by sikhlion on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 7:25 pm

I think this has been blown out of all proportion probably because Hamilton has had the lions share of bad luck he and his fans have read too much into Rosbergs move. It wasn't a Schumacher vs Villeneuve type move... It was just a silly little clip that normally doesn't cause a puncture but such is Hamiltons luck it did for him !! I like Hamilton and want a British F1 Champion but everyone makes mistakes.... There was one season Hamilton kept crashing into Massa and even into raikkonen in the pit lane when the red light was on.... These things just happen it's just racing!

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 8:01 pm

Rosberg properly has got under the skin of Hamilton and his fans ain't he haha
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Post by Hero on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 8:24 pm

Fellas, cut it out with the personal name calling amongst yourselves.

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Post by GSC on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 8:37 pm

John wrote:Yeah, ignore the points, just label people fanboys.

Yeah, imagine if this happened to everyone who didn't have Hamilton as a favorite driver
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Post by Bull on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 8:42 pm

John do you class me as one of idiots, just wondered.


Last edited by Bull on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 9:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by GSC on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 8:48 pm

Bulls theres a simple guide.

Is Hamilton the greatest driver ever?

If your answer is no, you are a fanboy/idiot.
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Post by Hero on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 9:42 pm

If I'd requested to cut out the personal stuff why is it continuing?

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Post by Fernando on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 9:46 pm

Hero wrote:If I'd requested to cut out the personal stuff why is it continuing?

They won't listen they never do thumbsup It may be for the best the Hamilton fans get their own section you can inappropriately name it "Lewis Hamilton's Special Place" Whistle

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Post by mystiroakey on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 9:54 pm

GSC wrote:Bulls theres a simple guide.

Is Hamilton the greatest driver ever?

If your answer is no, you are a fanboy/idiot.

So much nonsense . there isn't one poster on here that thinks that.

The problem is anyone that backs up Hamilton when its justified gets labled a Hamilton fan by you or others . it really is becoming ridiculous bud.

There are Hamilton haters but no lovers on here.

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Post by mystiroakey on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 9:54 pm

Fernando wrote:
Hero wrote:If I'd requested to cut out the personal stuff why is it continuing?

They won't listen they never do thumbsup  It may be for the best the Hamilton fans get their own section you can inappropriately name it "Lewis Hamilton's Special Place" Whistle

I think we need a Hamilton hater page to be honest nando.

Just you Gerry and GSC.. Very Happy


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Post by Fernando on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 9:57 pm

mystiroakey wrote:
Fernando wrote:
Hero wrote:If I'd requested to cut out the personal stuff why is it continuing?

They won't listen they never do thumbsup  It may be for the best the Hamilton fans get their own section you can inappropriately name it "Lewis Hamilton's Special Place" Whistle

I think we need a Hamilton hater page to be honest nando.

No point no one hates Lewis we just hate the people so far up his backside you'd need a winch to get them out also there is more then 2 of us so we're let you have your own page Whistle

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Post by mystiroakey on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 10:03 pm

It seems like only you Gerry and gsc hate Hamilton. The rest can just call it as we see it.

We can't even say it was rosbergs fault, when it clearly is yet we get labled being up his ass.

I am certainly no Hamilton fanboy . only a fool can see he isn't getting the rub of the green. That truth will be commented upon.

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Post by Gerry SA on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 11:29 pm

I don't 'hate' Hamilton. I hate the hype that surrounds him. Need I remind he's won 1 world championship. 

Whereas many on here would have you believe he's the greatest of all time...

Hamilton's not even the best if his era.


Last edited by Gerry SA on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 12:11 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Typo...as per usual...grrrr)

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Post by mystiroakey on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 11:48 pm

No one will Gerry. You are full of hyberbole mate. He is a very good racer though and has given us a lot of good races over the years. Certainly one of the best over takers of his era.

F1 isn't just about that though..but he does and has made races interesting for the fans..

Credit where its due.  

The rest of the season is going to immense because rosberg is going to also give it his all.. The merc team will be having kittens ....

Can't we all just get along and ban fan boy style claims either side ?

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Post by Gerry SA on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 12:15 am

So if Hamilton has added something to F1 in the last 7/8 years, and he deserves credit for that. 

Why doesn't Vettel get the credit he deserves? All I ever see on here is Vettel beat a lame Webber. 

But unless I'm mistaken Hamilton beat Kovalainen. So whys Hamilton title deemed superior to Vettel's 4?

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Post by mystiroakey on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 12:20 am

I really don't understand you Gerry. I haven't mentioned vettel. Just stop changing the goal posts. Stick to one topic at a time.. It gets muddled and then you end up posting stuff like you did at the top of this page which just fuels hate.

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Post by Gerry SA on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 12:24 am

Once again I'm not hating/ a hater or whatever else people on here like to call me. 

Anyway all I want is parity. There are 20 drivers on the grid. Not just Hamilton.

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Post by mystiroakey on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 8:19 am

Gerry SA wrote:John spouting pure tripe once again. 

Get with it, Hamilton is a bum. Nothing more. 

Hamilton fluked a world championship when Massa deserved to be champion. 

Hamilton is a second tier driver. 

Rosberg is making Hamilton his b!tch.

You want parity

laughing

You don't hate.

laughing

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 10:43 am

This, for me, is the best view of the Rosberg/Hamilton incident:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/28928608

Pretty much covers everything and comes from someone who has been in such a position.
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Post by dyrewolfe on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 2:22 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:This, for me, is the best view of the Rosberg/Hamilton incident:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/28928608

Pretty much covers everything and comes from someone who has been in such a position.


Interesting to read Coulthard's take on the incident...as you say, he has been in very similar situations in his career.

I think Mercedes have actually handled the incident pretty well - apart from allowing Lewis to talk about what was discussed behind closed doors. Wasn't especially damaging, as the management had already come out in support of Hamilton, but it still doesn't look very good.

Much as he was in the wrong, the team shouldn't totally hang Rosberg out to dry in the interests of maintaining some semblance of team cohesiveness. If things are allowed to deteriorate much further this season could really be a replay of the Prost-Senna years.

DC also pretty much confirmed my thoughts that there is only so much a team can do, whilst maintaining their drivers' freedom to race. In the end the drivers have to take ultimate responsibility out on track. Rosberg could have used the run-off area if he'd really wanted to avoid a collision, but chose not to and left his front end where it could hit Lewis' rear.


Going off topic a moment, this thread went south in a hurry once a couple of posters decided to stop debating and start insulting... Erm

Remember guys, you have the option to ignore people whose logic (or lack thereof) just winds you up. I've found it really does help. Wink
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Post by GSC on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 2:33 pm

I'll be brutally honest for a minute, I'm really tired of every time myself or someone dares to point out that Hamilton might not be completely innocent in an incident, or dares paint him in a less than positive light I get jumped upon by certain people.

I have nothing against Hamilton really, I don't feel strongly about him either way, its the obnoxious attitude of some of his fans on here that irks me.

In a similar vein, I don't really feel strongly either way about Rosberg. Said when Hamilton went on a string of wins he was too nice and should've got his elbows out and he has.
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Post by dyrewolfe on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 3:21 pm

Hmm...well, anyone who thinks Hamilton is perfect is suffering form a serious lack of objectivity.

Nothing wrong with hard-but-fair racing, but its hard to be critical of Lewis on this occasion.

Like I said before, if it had been any other 2 drivers I would have said it was just an unfortunate / clumsy racing incident. However, these two guys have a bit of history and my gut feeling (along with the comments coming from the team) suggest there was more to it than that.
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Post by GSC on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 3:24 pm

Yeah but I haven't been critical of Lewis.

Considering Gerry is on my ignore list I'd rather not be lumped with him.
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Post by bogbrush on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 3:25 pm

Exactly GSC, the biggest issue with Rosberg is that he's behaved as team player, a #2. I think someone's told him to man up a bit, or perhaps after Lewis made clear in the previous race that he won't do what the team tell him, he just decided enough was enough and he'd get his elbows out, as you say.

I see nothing wrong with that. It went wrong on Sunday; if he just misses him and is able to gain advantage we all cheer and applaud great driving. If the drivers are reversed we definitely would hear a lot about that!
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Post by GSC on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 3:31 pm

I mean the only thing I appear to be guilty of is not condemning Rosberg. Which given the stewards tended to agree with me at the time that it was a racing incident I stand by.

This has been simmering for a while and Mercedes have done nothing about it. I said at work weeks ago Rosberg will stick his elbows right out after Hamilton cost him a potential win by ignoring Merc at Hungary. Sadly nice guys finish last in Formula 1. Generally, world champions are ***holes who are prepared to do whatever it takes.

Alonso-This isn't debatable
Vettel-Seems a nice guy but more than capable as shown by Webber.
Schumacher-See Alonso
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Post by mystiroakey on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 4:04 pm

I think you lot are thinking back a bit to far. Rosberg was also very gutted he lost his pole and made an error that would usually effect him badly rather than help him.

Gsc stated at the time it was 50/50 and they were level. He hasn't retracted that fact and will not admit rosberg was lucky.

bB actually did and we had a sensible conversation after.

Its just about admiring the facts. That's all. Lh is wrong to say its deliberate. Rosbergs driving was poor and cost lh points.

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Post by GSC on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 4:06 pm

I said they were level going into the corner. Which is true. picard
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Post by Guest on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 4:15 pm

Belgian GP Thread - Containing Spoilers of Race & Qualifying - Page 6 Rosberg-footage_3195070

new to the forum.

They were never 50/50 or side by side, ridiculous comment. Your comments are clearly siding with Rosberg, I've read all your posts from this topic & not once have you blamed Rosberg, it's all getting agitated with anyone who 'appears' to side with Hamilton or you just dismiss people's posts because they are different to the opinions of yours. You can't lay any blame at Hamilton's door for this incident, whatsoever.

Jenson Button comments - “There was nothing there,” Button said of Rosberg’s attempted move. “All he could do was go off the circuit. There was no move. I think any driver would look at it now, and I am sure Nico would look at it and say ‘What was I thinking?’”

It was a poor move, from a driver trying to drive in a manner which isn't in his capabilities & he got found out, fortunately for him, Lewis got punished.

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Post by GSC on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 4:20 pm

Yeah, a picture after they've turned into the corner is a great illustration picard
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Post by mystiroakey on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 4:23 pm

They were never level. But even if there were at that point its immaterial to the incident as lh has racing line, and rosbergs cut back inside when he was almost completely behind him.. Its obvious that rosberg didn't mean to do what he did. But it was his fault and through sheer luck he had the biggest result possible from bad driving.. Not good driving.. That is what you need to admit. But you dismiss luck.. When it shouldn't be dismissed.

If this incident happened between rival teams the team would straight away be on the radio to the stewards.. 

Merc need to take responsibility for this as well though . not just rosberg.

Merc told rosberg last race lh would let him pass. They should have said he will let you pass if you get to him.. I have no idea if rosberg lacked the pace to get to even the drs point or he was waiting for lh to slow down..

But that clearly annoyed him. Add to the fact that lh beat him into the first corner from second and we have seen rosberg lose his cool for the first time ever.

But let's all just get on shall we.. Its set up for a great end to the season and more of this is going to come .


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Post by Guest on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 4:23 pm

Oh your one of those I see, never wrong & just sits on here lauding himself, even though the facts prove you wrong & the thoughts & opinions of other F1 drivers/pundits state it was a poor move from Rosberg. Yeah, OK. Laugh

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Post by GSC on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 4:26 pm

Tbh Myst in Hungary theres no point sitting on the car in fronts gearbox. Its like Monaco, you can't overtake unless the car in front makes a big mistake or you have a big car advantage. All you'll do is cook up the front tyres.

Rosberg was lucky to only lose part of his front wings I guess. Hamilton unlucky to get a puncture. Don't really get why this is such a big sticking point, its fairly meaningless.
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Post by mystiroakey on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 4:32 pm

GSC wrote:Tbh Myst in Hungary theres no point sitting on the car in fronts gearbox. Its like Monaco, you can't overtake unless the car in front makes a big mistake or you have a big car advantage. All you'll do is cook up the front tyres.

Rosberg was lucky to only lose part of his front wings I guess. Hamilton unlucky to get a puncture. Don't really get why this is such a big sticking point, its fairly meaningless.

ta..

thats good enough pal Hug

roll on the next race

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 4:33 pm

I never saw the race live but have seen the replays. It just looks like a damned clumsy piece of driving from Nico and no more than that though it is being blown up as more than that. I'd be pretty sure it was just clumsiness as A. To consider the speeds they were travelling and the split second it happened in it would be impossible for Nico to perfectly judge it so that it turned out the way it did. B. I don't really thing Rosberg has that kind of nasty streak in him. He always comes across as naive and a by-the-book sort of driver so can't see this being deliberate.

Still it was a manoeuvre that was ill-conceived and clumsily performed and he reaped the benefits from it and Hamilton suffered.
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Post by Guest on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 4:42 pm

Even though Hamilton has endured numerous issues, only being 29 points behind isn't too bad. I'm sure if you gave Hamilton the opportunity to be 13 points behind going into Abu Dhabi, he'd snap your hand off, going into a one-race shootout at one of his favoured tracks. I'm not a Hamilton 'fanboy' as it gets lazily labelled on here, but would prefer him to win the championship for British sport. I also think Mercedes, long term, would benefit from a LH championship win. In 2015, if Mercedes' advantage has been reduced, I'd rather have Lewis fighting wheel-to-wheel with rival teams, than the incapable & clearly incompetent at overtaking under pressure, Rosberg.

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Post by Bull on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 4:51 pm

This argument has gotten boring now.

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Post by GSC on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 4:51 pm

It was boring 2 years ago Bull.
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Post by Guest on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 5:40 pm

LiamB wrote:I'm sure if you gave Hamilton the opportunity to be 13 points behind going into Abu Dhabi, he'd snap your hand off, going into a one-race shootout at one of his favoured tracks.

I think with the way things are panning out, being inside that 13 point deficit going into Abu Dhabi is essential, so he probably would snap your hand off. Still a long way to go though, so things could change again. Also, welcome to the forum. thumbsup

In other news, Martin Whitmarsh officially confirms his departure from McLaren.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 1:23 pm

Fernando wrote:
Hero wrote:If I'd requested to cut out the personal stuff why is it continuing?

They won't listen they never do thumbsup  It may be for the best the Hamilton fans get their own section you can inappropriately name it "Lewis Hamilton's Special Place" Whistle

laughing

Ooooh! I've always wanted to be in Lewis Hamilton's Special Place!



LaughLaughLaugh


Last edited by dyrewolfe on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 1:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by dyrewolfe on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 1:34 pm

GSC wrote:I mean the only thing I appear to be guilty of is not condemning Rosberg. Which given the stewards tended to agree with me at the time that it was a racing incident I stand by.

This has been simmering for a while and Mercedes have done nothing about it. I said at work weeks ago Rosberg will stick his elbows right out after Hamilton cost him a potential win by ignoring Merc at Hungary. Sadly nice guys finish last in Formula 1. Generally, world champions are ***holes who are prepared to do whatever it takes.

Alonso-This isn't debatable
Vettel-Seems a nice guy but more than capable as shown by Webber.
Schumacher-See Alonso


Have to take issue with you on a couple of counts there.

The stewards obviously saw it as a racing incident, but it was evident pretty soon afterwards that there was more to it, given Toto Wolff's post-race comments.

Also, my memory isn't the best, but from what I recall about Hungary, Rosberg never got close enough to pass Hamilton (always at least a 0.5 sec gap IIRC). They may have been on different strategies, but I think it was poor of the team to ask Hamilton to compromise his own race to let Rosberg past, when they were both battling for a podium finish.
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Post by GSC on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 2:05 pm

Dyre, there was no sense in Rosberg sitting on Hamiltons gearbox. Hungary is Monaco lite, all Rosberg would do is burn up his front tyres from Hamiltons dirty air. I suspect he was told Hamilton would move over and he could drive through. Honestly, its a pretty frequent brand of team orders, no sense having one of your drivers slowing up another who still has a stop to make.

Wolff seemed more annoyed he had tried the move early, doesn't mean it wasn't a racing incident. I suspect he had his fingers toes crossed all break that there wouldn't be an incident after Hungary.
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Post by Hulking_up on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 3:17 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:
Also, my memory isn't the best, but from what I recall about Hungary, Rosberg never got close enough to pass Hamilton (always at least a 0.5 sec gap IIRC). They may have been on different strategies, but I think it was poor of the team to ask Hamilton to compromise his own race to let Rosberg past, when they were both battling for a podium finish.
Wolff said at the weekend they were wrong to give the order to Lewis and they should have not told Rosberg Lewis would let him pass.
Wolff said they should have told Rosberg Lewis will not fight him if he goes for an overtake. He admitted that they worded it wrong.

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Post by Guest on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 3:37 pm

To make it appear worse for rosberg, is that in Hungary after Hamilton's second stop, he suffered a loss of engine power, so the fact Nico couldn't get the move done was surprising. Had Hamilton not endured this issue, which people haven't really discussed, as it only got released post Hungary, then there was a chance he would of won or at least for past alonso.

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Post by Fernando on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 4:52 pm

Looks like we could be having a Greek F1 race due to some private investors, Apparently FOL trademarked the term Mediterranean GP. Looks a decent track better then Sochi anyway.

Belgian GP Thread - Containing Spoilers of Race & Qualifying - Page 6 F1-proposed-mediterranean-gp-circuit-map-2014-plans-for-an-f1-circuit-near-athens-greece

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Post by Guest on Thu 28 Aug 2014, 7:55 pm

John wrote:To make it appear worse for rosberg, is that in Hungary after Hamilton's second stop, he suffered a loss of engine power, so the fact Nico couldn't get the move done was surprising.

Yeah, I saw that released too. I wondered why he was unable to overtake Alonso & was particularly slow down the straight. Another issue for Hamilton fans to list down, I guess.

@Fernando - Mexico & India come back into the equation in 2015 & Azerbaijan enters in 2016. I'm not sure where a race in Greece can take place. It looks a decent track & is that a tunnel included in the track, similar to Monaco?

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Post by Fernando on Thu 28 Aug 2014, 8:00 pm

Honestly i doubt we're see India back on for 2015 unless they get everything together. Apparently it's supposed to be a street circuit funded by outsiders not the government and yeah it's a tunnel can't see it coming off honestly i doubt the greeks would want a race.

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Post by Gerry SA on Thu 28 Aug 2014, 8:01 pm

LiamB wrote:
John wrote:To make it appear worse for rosberg, is that in Hungary after Hamilton's second stop, he suffered a loss of engine power, so the fact Nico couldn't get the move done was surprising.

Yeah, I saw that released too. I wondered why he was unable to overtake Alonso & was particularly slow down the straight. Another issue for Hamilton fans to list down, I guess.

@Fernando - Mexico & India come back into the equation in 2015 & Azerbaijan enters in 2016. I'm not sure where a race in Greece can take place. It looks a decent track & is that a tunnel included in the track, similar to Monaco?
I doubt India will ever return.

The track owners have a tax problem with the local government

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Post by Scrumpy on Fri 29 Aug 2014, 1:49 pm

Mercedes have taken disciplinary action against Nico Rosberg following his collision with Hamilton.

Not sure what it is yet?
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