my invitation to the Rafateers

Dear Rafateers,

I would love it you guys contributed more often to the main forum. i love what you guys have done with Rafa fan thread, but if you could dedicate some of your energy to the main site I think it could be a real cornerstone for building the best tennis chat site in the planet on 606v2. I know that some of you do not have a great deal of affection for the commentary on Rafa that sometimes takes place in the main forum. But I for one always try to be objective and fair to all the players, if I have failed previously in this pledge please show me where i have erred and I will change my wicked ways. Certainly, after big wins or big losses opposing camps of fans will have some emotion and maybe some oversensitivity and feelings can be hurt. But I for one enjoy the presence of the Rafateers and would love to see more participation of the Rafateers on the main site. Your tireless energy and love for the sport is needed here, and if you get annoyed you can always take a few days off on rafa fan thread. Debating and discussing differing views while being sometimes more frustrating can be more fun as well.

sincerely

Socal

Hi Socal. Your message above is very much appreciated my me, and I am sure when my fellow Rafateers see it they will feel the same.

It's quite disheartening to read some of the attacks and it does put you off posting elsewhere. On the other hand, we have a lot of fun on our threads, yes there is lots of silliness, but why not, nobody gets hurt.

I've never seen you attack a player or another poster - although you did have me worried with your annointing Nole as GOAT thread for a while until you mentioned the freemasons and gave yourself away

Yes cats r cool, there are certainly some people who tend not to want to give Rafa any credit or to denigrate his game or personality. But I don't feel that the Rafateers should let those people ruin their participation with the rest of us fans of the game in the main thread. I don't want to indict anyone or accuse anyone. Plus I think discussions with differing points of view can be more fun.

What you don't believe in the unholy alliance of uncle toni, guy forget, and the freemasons? By the way I was taken to task for that thread because of my violation of the no wumming rules of the site. Personally, I think we can all tolerate a little banter and humor from time to time; while cutting out nastiness and personal attacks.

Hi Socal, the alternative of course is for you to look inside yourself and find that inner rafateer. I'm sure it is there deep down.

Nadal is one of the few tennis players that surprises from time to time with his good sense and compassion for the game and his fellow players (aftermatch comments and behaviour). Of course during a match he is extremely competitive - as we would expect all our professional sportspeople to be.

Nore Staat wrote:Hi Socal, the alternative of course is for you to look inside yourself and find that inner rafateer. I'm sure it is there deep down.

Don't worry. It;s not that deep down with Socal. He is a secret Rafa lover though he likes to be seen as neutral.

I like Raffa and I enjoy watching his matches.
Although I dont favour one player over another I can see why he has so many fans. When is he next up at the FO?

Come on Tenez we all know you have a poster with a shirtless Rafa Nadal up in your bedroom, come clean man. As for me I would rate Rafa and Roger as one of my top ten players on the current tour I like to watch, neither one crack my top 5. As a Djoko fan I tend to have a little more hard feelings toward Roger as the Djoko Roger rivalry had that little bit of bad blood in it. But really, i don't care who goes down as GOAT 1 or Goat 2 or if neither one does.

Hi socal, thanks for the kind comments.

We were active on the main forum and are keen to be so. I enjoy talking tennis and I've tried to make my own contribution to 606v2 with tennis articles to keep the debate going. It has been said that we should try to re-create 606. Well ... there was a lot about 606 that was good. Its simple format for one, which is the general public placing articles on a forum about a sport they enjoy and people coming along to debate the issues. And to me, that is what 606v2 is doing.

But there was also a lot about 606 that was bad, and abject derogation of players and barbs towards posters was the main thing ... and people became heartily sick of it. I'm not asking for Utopia, and I think it is perfectly understandable that people have those players that they dislike a lot more than those they like. The health of any forum relys on different views, opinons, thoughts, feelings and the debate of it is what brings us on here. However, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to identify when it all goes too far ... and that was the major failing of 606 and those unsatisfactory behaviours were appearing again on here.

I don't have the energy to rail against it any more, I just can't be bothered ... hence, I will retreat into the fan sites and leave you all to it. That's what we did on 606 and other tennis fans such as the Andymoaners did the same.

I do think though that 606v2 wanted better than that, and I am of the belief that the majority of posters want that too. As I said, I'm not for creating a fluffy, Utopic world where you daren't say a thing to anyone else for fear of offense ... but we know the House Rules and we know that derogation of a sports person and their fans simply because you don't like them is not right either.

I actually already see a whiff of change on the forum even of today, so that's good. Anyway, that's all I wanted to say.

I think the fan sections are where people should go for uncritical affirmation from other posters of their affection for a player.

The main boards should be for debate and discussion.

Quite frankly I think it's better if people who want the latter steer clear of the fan sections, and that people who only want to hear what they agree with stay out of the main boards. Whatever people choose to do is then all good by me.

bogbrush wrote:I think the fan sections are where people should go for uncritical affirmation from other posters of their affection for a player.

The main boards should be for debate and discussion.

Quite frankly I think it's better if people who want the latter steer clear of the fan sections, and that people who only want to hear what they agree with stay out of the main boards. Whatever people choose to do is then all good by me.

Hi Bogbrush, I totally agree with this, but the problem seems to be that people that want the latter don't seem to be steering clear of the fan sections as they have a lot of knowledge of what gets posted on them and then, dare I say, get judgemental about it on the main board.

And I also agree with that. There is a lot of debate today and no unnecessary refererences about any posters, and that is positive.

But there was also a lot about 606 that was bad, and abject derogation of players and barbs towards posters was the main thing ... and people became heartily sick of it.
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That's the view of real fans but I personally would never be bothered if my preferred players kept on being criticised. I'd argue against their views at best but would never get emotional about it. In fact I enjoyed a few discussions with guys like Catalan Power, even Unbiased_E and others who simply could not stand Federer.

The agression often comes from those who take it pesonally when their player is being discussed negatively. That is when it all goes to far as you said.

There is nothing wrong with criticising a player or discussing them negatively.

The issue from yesterday was taking the micky out of other posters because of how they chose to follow a certain player and what they post about said player.

Like I have said previously, constructive critisism is good for debate, but have some respect for other posters and members in the way they choose to follow a player.

This is a common discussion across tennis forums. Surely....

1. We love tennis first and foremost? After all its the game itself that threw up the players we all individually like to watch or follow. No game, no players.

2. We like individual players secondmost.

Therefore, I'm always surprised if people dont want to contribute to the tennis discussion as a whole. However, I agree that if people like one player over another they shouldnt have to justify that or defend themselves against vitriol. Its that sort of behaviour that frankly killed the original 606 Tennis board. As long as the moderation on these aspects is strong to keep any behaviour like that in check then there should be no problems - as that was the problem with 606...no moderators.

I really like the separate section.

I think in the main boards we all have to accept every topic as fair game, and personally I'm cool with debate being fairly robust. Nobody needs to get personal though.

Early days but this place is getting it about right. The test will come if I cross swords with Wise_Analyst, Dr_Sincere or whatever else thery call themselves again. That used to be fun, but it definitely got intense sometimes!

Those were good days BB, and not even bad when Cocteau/AIR was around - at least he was funny. It went downhill after that with downright personal stuff going left and right. I agree could debate should not be trampled, indeed it should be encouraged as that's what brings forums alive.

Well, Wooffie I hope you guys do find more opportunities to come into the main board to express your opinions and to have positive give and take with people who may or may not agree. I have always enjoyed the rafateers presence on the main site. Also, I think we should all keep it lighthearted and civil, we shouldn't try to legislate out the fun and banter while at the same time respecting other posters. If more people post on the main site it will attract fans from all the different camps and I think we would all like that.

I would also like to say to the moderators to be careful to strike the right balance between keeping the site civil and respectful and not legislating the fun out of the site. So far its been a good balance. Lets none of us take this stuff to personally or seriously.

Well socal, on reading all this, I think its turned a bit of a corner. I think the fan threads are a good feature of this site to allow freedom of expression in support of a player that doesn't infiltrate or effect those that want to discuss tennis in the main forum. By the same token, those that want to discuss tennis in the main forum shouldn't replicate in a derogatory way what is said in the fan threads.

First and foremost, yes ... we do all love the game, and I don't think anyone wants to stop talking about it which is why we were keen to find a place to do so now that 606 is ending. From first coming here I really felt a want by posters for a behaviour change and for it to be something different than what we'd experienced before and that's why we enjoyed it so much. So I think a bit of airing of all this today has been good, along with the moderator input.

Yes, Wooffie, I have occassionally come into the Rafateers and you guys do critique aspects of Rafa's game when you don't like what you see. Of course you do talk about kits and other personal interest stuff that is best kept in fan threads. But the main thread to I think could offer something different as others have said a chance to talk with someone and have give and take with people that may not agree with. I have noticed a better tone myself as new posters come in an adapt themselves.

If the debate on ANY player is relating to tennis, ability etc. and not a character assassination of that player fair enough.

All players have their own "OCD's" Murray berates himself when things aren't going well, Nadal has his fixed routine and all genuine tennis fans know their playing style so any comments in these departments unless really valid only go to annoy the relevant fans of the respective player.

The old 606 had little or no moderation and was on occasion flooded by posters from other boards ( mainly football & snooker) and their contributions were in the main the usual rubbish "mallorcan moon baller", "Murray will never win a slam" etc. etc.

So to get rid of this by good moderation is a vast improvement but one still has to accept valid criticism.

Just remember it's only the fans and not the players that are "lucky" ! to get to read these comments and either way they will not make one bit of difference to what actually will or will not happen in the real world.

Good point sportslover, but I mean what if you honestly believe that Murray's attitude costs him matches? I think you should be able to say things like that an not worry about people being hurt by it. Some people on this site think that Nadal's tics are a put on to unnerve his opponent and slow down the pace of the match, i don't think that but they are entitled to their opinion. But I think there is as you put it a fine line between good faith critique and character assassination.

Murrays attitude at times does him no favours especially when he loses concentration but fortunately he is aware of that and hopefully is addressing the problem with the help of the "Adidas team".

As for Rafa he has his routine and is unlikely to change, a bit like Sharapovas grunting she probably wouldn't have been as successful without it.

Glad to see Novak has reduced his ball bouncing by the way

I know the Novak detractors mainly in the Federer camp made Novak's ball bouncing out to be the equivalent of doping or a crime of some kind. But that is a topic for another thread.

We rafa fan should have a get together - maybe in Roland Garros next year