Team of round three.

by Artful_Dodger Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:40 pm

1 - Matias Aguero
2 - Rory Best
3 - Mike Ross
4 - Devin Toner
5 - Alun Wyn Jones
6 - Dan Lydiate
7 - Simone Favaro
8 - Billy Vunipola
9 - Conor Murray
10 - Johnny Sexton
11 - Liam Williams
12 - Robbie Henshaw
13 - Mark Bennett
14 - Giovambattista Venditti
15 - Luke McLean

A few points:

Front row - Mike Ross was expected to have a number done on him, in the end he not only had parity with Marler but outplayed him. Rory Best is so solid, he contributes as many turnovers as an openside in most games, nailed his darts and scrummaged well. Aguero - had a great performance against Euan Murray, Italian front row put in a very good shift.
Second row - Toner was imperious in the lineout against England, as well as making Ireland's ball safe he really stifled the English lineout. Alun Wyn Jones is one of those players who you know is contributing so many little things even if you don't see him do anything really outstanding, leadership qualities as well, possibly my motm against France.
Back row - Toss up between O'Mahony and Lydiate for blindside, gone with Lydiate for the lovely deft pass to setup Wales try and being a defensive brick wall. Favaro is a very underrated openside and in the second half in particular against Scotland he was a big part of Scotland having no quality ball to work with. Billy V, possibly the only England player who can really come away from that match have been put in a particularly good individual performance, Parisse maybe unlucky to miss out.

Half backs - Conor Murray has, since the Lions tour, become an outstanding 9, he pulled the string for Ireland with his box kicking and made life hell for England. Sexton - Biggar maybe unlucky to miss out but I don't think it was a coincidence that when Sexton was replaced England came back into the game. Possibly pound for pound best 10 in the world right now, Carter included.
Centres - Really hard call between Henshaw and Roberts again, gone with Henshaw, his try was well taken, he got motm in a team of motm candidates. Outside centre - no really outstanding candidates, a bit like Billy V Bennett one of incredibly few to have a decent individual performance for Scotland.
Back three - Luke McClean had a great game against Scotland, great kicking game and aerial defense. The wings were tricky as there were no really outstanding candidates - Venditti and Williams probably the best out of a pretty meager week for wingers.

Just my thoughts, feel free to deconstruct.

by Guest Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:45 pm

Not picking holes AD as it's all opinion, but the name that instantly jumps out is Liam Williams for me: was very quiet v France. Probably his quietest game. Ever! Not sure who else to put in on the wing. Not really a round for wings, as you say! I think North did more than him for Wales - made a few runs and breaks, his burst up the middle leading to Wales' try.

How about Zebo? Did a lot of good clearing up today. Took a lot of traffic and coped really well I thought.

by captain carrantuohil Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:45 pm

Think that's a notably good effort, AD. Really hard to come up with outside backs who shoneduring this trio of matches and agree that Roberts and Henshaw were the pick.

The wings though? has there ever been a worse 6 Nations in which to ply your trade at 11 or 14? There has been the odd flash from some of them but most of the time it has been a matter of attending to an unending stream of defensive chores. Really not one wing from any of the nine matches so far has stuck up a hand and demanded to be picked and it's not all their fault.

by bedfordwelsh Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:46 pm

I would most probably put Zebo in ahead of Williams but as you said it wasn't a vintage week for wingers and I think Charteris was great for us a complete an utter nuisance for the French all day long and Roberts has to be in at 12.

by Geordie Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:47 pm

Vunipola? Nah no England players would make this team.

by Artful_Dodger Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:50 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:I would most probably put Zebo in ahead of Williams but as you said it wasn't a vintage week for wingers and I think Charteris was great for us a complete an utter nuisance for the French all day long and Roberts has to be in at 12.

12 was the hardest pick, Henshaw was man of the match against England and has taken to international rugby seamlessly. Wouldn't have any complaints about people saying Roberts, bit of a 50/50 call between the two.

by Rory_Gallagher Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:27 pm

Artful_Dodger wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:I would most probably put Zebo in ahead of Williams but as you said it wasn't a vintage week for wingers and I think Charteris was great for us a complete an utter nuisance for the French all day long and Roberts has to be in at 12.

12 was the hardest pick, Henshaw was man of the match against England and has taken to international rugby seamlessly. Wouldn't have any complaints about people saying Roberts, bit of a 50/50 call between the two.

You could move Henshaw to 13 as that is where he actually plays generally.. but I guess that is against the rules for the team of the week.

by Pot Hale Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:05 pm

I thought Tommy O'Donnell who came on quite early for O'Brien had a superb match - he was everywhere.

Jordi Murphy acquitted himself very well, but I'd give it to the Welsh 8, rather than Vuniploa.

And the French 15 was pretty handy.

by The Great Aukster Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:45 pm

Billy V did very little of any consequence - he looks to be carrying too much extra timber to be effective. Surely Parisse was the 8 of the weekend?

by Artful_Dodger Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:54 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:Billy V did very little of any consequence - he looks to be carrying too much extra timber to be effective. Surely Parisse was the 8 of the weekend?

I thought Billy V did some real damage with his carries on a couple of occasions. and there was the 50 odd meter break which ended in a kick over the dead ball line - but he is an 8 in fairness.

by 123456789 Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:56 pm

Please don't put Bennett in just to appease the Scots, his performance whilst good was certainly not up there with his best and his try was given to him on a plate.

by Artful_Dodger Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:57 pm

123456789 wrote:Please don't put Bennett in just to appease the Scots, his performance whilst good was certainly not up there with his best and his try was given to him on a plate.

To be fair, looking at the other performances at 13 Bennett was probably the best of them.

by The Great Aukster Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:05 am

Artful_Dodger wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Billy V did very little of any consequence - he looks to be carrying too much extra timber to be effective. Surely Parisse was the 8 of the weekend?

I thought Billy V did some real damage with his carries on a couple of occasions. and there was the 50 odd meter break which ended in a kick over the dead ball line - but he is an 8 in fairness.

I know Youngs told him to do it but seriously what were the chances of that kick coming to anything? For me that kick was exactly what he shouldn't be doing and therefore disqualifies him from consideration.

by Artful_Dodger Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:14 am

The Great Aukster wrote:
Artful_Dodger wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Billy V did very little of any consequence - he looks to be carrying too much extra timber to be effective. Surely Parisse was the 8 of the weekend?

I thought Billy V did some real damage with his carries on a couple of occasions. and there was the 50 odd meter break which ended in a kick over the dead ball line - but he is an 8 in fairness.

I know Youngs told him to do it but seriously what were the chances of that kick coming to anything? For me that kick was exactly what he shouldn't be doing and therefore disqualifies him from consideration.

Well he wasn't going to make it himself and Bowe ran a line which cut off the pass to Youngs....and he was miles away from his support, so a kick of some description was really all that was on for him.

by The Great Aukster Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:21 am

Artful_Dodger wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
Artful_Dodger wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Billy V did very little of any consequence - he looks to be carrying too much extra timber to be effective. Surely Parisse was the 8 of the weekend?

I thought Billy V did some real damage with his carries on a couple of occasions. and there was the 50 odd meter break which ended in a kick over the dead ball line - but he is an 8 in fairness.

I know Youngs told him to do it but seriously what were the chances of that kick coming to anything? For me that kick was exactly what he shouldn't be doing and therefore disqualifies him from consideration.

Well he wasn't going to make it himself and Bowe ran a line which cut off the pass to Youngs....and he was miles away from his support, so a kick of some description was really all that was on for him.

... or carry it (as he's supposed to be good at) and gain field position rather than just give possession away. Poor call by Youngs who was already covered and poor call by BV as he's a cleaver not a scalpel. Don't think there are many 8's in world rugby who could have made the kick and none of them are English.

by maestegmafia Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:51 am

McGrath
Best
Lee
POC
AWJ
POM
O'Donnell
Parisse
Parra
Sexton
watson
Roberts
Bennet
North
Dulin

by theslosty Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:05 am

Henshaw for Roberts and you're spot on mate Wink

by **George Carlin** Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:33 am

Some good shouts in there.

Personally:

Joshua Furno before AWJ - Furno was the fulcrum of his pack and a giant in the tight - my MOM.

JD2 or Rémi Lamerat before Bennett - both had more rounded performances

Henshaw has to be in before Roberts

Probably North before Venditti but it's a very close call

Rory Best has to be the first name on the team sheet

by **Notch** Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:42 am

Sure Lamerat went off after 15 minutes?

by **George Carlin** Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:43 am

Woah. Shows how little I was paying attention to France.

by beshocked Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:52 am

The Great Aukster wrote:
Artful_Dodger wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
Artful_Dodger wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Billy V did very little of any consequence - he looks to be carrying too much extra timber to be effective. Surely Parisse was the 8 of the weekend?

I thought Billy V did some real damage with his carries on a couple of occasions. and there was the 50 odd meter break which ended in a kick over the dead ball line - but he is an 8 in fairness.

I know Youngs told him to do it but seriously what were the chances of that kick coming to anything? For me that kick was exactly what he shouldn't be doing and therefore disqualifies him from consideration.

Well he wasn't going to make it himself and Bowe ran a line which cut off the pass to Youngs....and he was miles away from his support, so a kick of some description was really all that was on for him.

... or carry it (as he's supposed to be good at) and gain field position rather than just give possession away. Poor call by Youngs who was already covered and poor call by BV as he's a cleaver not a scalpel. Don't think there are many 8's in world rugby who could have made the kick and none of them are English.

If he had kept the ball it would have probably been an Irish penalty or turnover just as it was for most of the game. The support play from England in general was poor. Time and again you saw poor ball retention because there was a lack of support from English players.

Also when an Englishman made a break there didn't seem to be anyone obvious to pass to.

Sluggish would be a good word to sum up England - sluggish in decision making, sluggish in kick chase, sluggish in brain power

by TightHEAD Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:07 am

Surely Goode at fullback if only for comical value.

by beshocked Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:09 am

TightHEAD wrote:Surely Goode at fullback if only for comical value.

Think you'll find he made the most metres of any English player.

by TightHEAD Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:10 am

Sideways/backwards doesn't count surely?

by **George Carlin** Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:17 am

TightHEAD wrote:Sideways/backwards doesn't count surely?

by beshocked Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:18 am

Beat 3 players in one move - he was certainly moving forwards. Of course he's the scapegoat - the knives were being sharpened before the game.

by TightHEAD Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:27 am

That's because we have all seen him play before!

by beshocked Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:28 am

TightHEAD wrote:That's because we have all seen him play before!

Evidently you have a short memory - he helped England beat Ireland in 2013.

by TightHEAD Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:30 am

Well in 2015 he helped Ireland.

by TightHEAD Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:32 am

In 2011 Rhys Priestland looked like a quality FH.

by beshocked Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:32 am

I think you can accuse the whole England team of that - not just one player!

I certainly don't think Goode was the worst English player.

by TightHEAD Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:38 am

But we all knew what the outcome would be when we saw the team sheet with Goode's name on it.

Nice enough bloke and a good Prem player but not international class by a long way, already tried and tested.

by funnyExiledScot Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:42 am

No Scots should be anywhere near "Team of Round Three". A couple of nice runs from Dunbar and Bennett, but Henshaw and JD2 would be my picks at centre.

On the Alex Goode performance, I didn't think he played too badly actually. The English pack were poor at the breakdown and the Irish really targeted the English back three with a lot of testing kicks and high balls. I personally wouldn't have picked him (I'd have had Watson at 15), but he got England out of trouble a couple of times. His big strength is coming into the line as a distributor, but England didn't really have any ball with which to utilise that strength, and when they did, Burrell messed up in getting the ball wide, or it did make it to Nowell for him to be bundled into touch.

Nowell was very average in fact, Joseph had his worst game of the tournament, Burrell's distribution skills were shown up a couple of times and the pack were well beaten in the technical aspects of the breakdown. For a big physical bloke, Attwood punches well below his weight.

by TightHEAD Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:47 am

Attwood has always had that problem but so far this season he has looked like an enforcer for Bath, but I agree not yesterday by a long way, he looked weak and lightweight as did the other 2nd row.

by beshocked Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:47 am

tighthead really? You base your predictions on one player?

Easy to say that with hindsight.

Not international class? The guy started in a XV which has beaten NZ.

The whole international class,world class thing is stupid anyway.

Pretty much every England player struggled vs Ireland.

by TightHEAD Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:51 am

beshocked wrote:

The whole international class,world class thing is stupid anyway.

Not really I can think of loads of players who are good club players but I would never select them for England, hence not international class.

Goode is one of them, he might even make the top of my list after yesterday, who calls a mark behind their own try line for heavens sake.

by whocares Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:01 pm

George Carlin wrote:Woah. Shows how little I was paying attention to France.

Lucky you...

Only frog that deserves a mention is loosehead Eddy Ben Arous... Solid on the scrum and a real nuisance in the rucks (earning 2 penalties).

by lostinwales Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:25 pm

beshocked wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Surely Goode at fullback if only for comical value.

Think you'll find he made the most metres of any English player.

Fullbacks almost always do, because when they run after fielding a deep kick there are usually no defenders for a while. What they do when they hit traffic is another thing entirely. So Goode beat a bunch of Irish guys with a lovely jinking run behind his own posts (big plus) Also ran into contact and bounced off the nearest irishman several times (bigger minus)

by beshocked Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:46 pm

lostinwales wrote:
beshocked wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Surely Goode at fullback if only for comical value.

Think you'll find he made the most metres of any English player.

Fullbacks almost always do, because when they run after fielding a deep kick there are usually no defenders for a while. What they do when they hit traffic is another thing entirely. So Goode beat a bunch of Irish guys with a lovely jinking run behind his own posts (big plus) Also ran into contact and bounced off the nearest irishman several times (bigger minus)

Just trying to add some balance to all the criticism he gets. Goode was part of an England team that misfired as a team.

As for bouncing off Irishman - Ireland have one of the best defensives in the NH. Most Englishman struggled to breakdown the Irish - the centres were noticeably poor in attack.

by funnyExiledScot Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:56 pm

I think the turnover point is being slightly overplayed as a negative on Goode. Sure, he isn't as good as Brown for slithering extra yards, but the England pack were attrocious in getting back to support their fullback. At times he was needing to beat a lot of players to get anywhere near his cover.

Back when England were good, 12 years ago, the pack (and backs like Cohen and Tindall) were always getting back knowing full well that Robinson was going to counter. Sure, Robinson was a world class counter attacking full back, but when he did get into trouble you could bet your house that he wouldn't be left alone against a bunch of opposition defenders.

Mike Blair used to have the same problem with Scotland. He'd make a break from the ruck only to find that he'd left our lumbering forwards (and backs) behind. May as well have just kicked the ball away! Not his fault though clearly.

by cb Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:15 pm

I thought Parisse gave a very educated and influential performance and would take him over Vunipola.

by cb Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:15 pm

I thought Parisse gave a very educated and influential performance and would take him over Vunipola.

by **George Carlin** Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:16 pm

whocares wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Woah. Shows how little I was paying attention to France.

Lucky you...

by funnyExiledScot Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:37 pm

cb wrote:I thought Parisse gave a very educated and influential performance and would take him over Vunipola.

Parisse was excellent against us, in total contrast to his opposite number Johnnie Beattie, who is really struggling for form.

by R!skysports Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:38 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
cb wrote:I thought Parisse gave a very educated and influential performance and would take him over Vunipola.

Parisse was excellent against us, in total contrast to his opposite number Johnnie Beattie, who is really struggling for form.

Was Beattie playing....?

by TightHEAD Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:16 pm

Billy Vunipola is a poor mans Ben Morgan.

All in all we still have reasons to be optimistic if only we could get all our key players fit at the same time.

by **LondonTiger** Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:50 pm

I only saw one match so can only create a combined team from that one. Players in bold are those whose performances really stood out for me and should be in contention for team of the round.

Marler - In a match with very few scrums, Marler's tackle rate wins out over McGrath.
Best - Played pretty well, would be in by default anyway as Hartley struggled.
Cole - see Marler. Add in a couple of penalties won at scrum time.
Toner - One lineout steal, otherwise almost invisible. In by default.
POC - Strong match
POM - Rather quiet, one good lineout steal, opposite number was poor.
O'Donnell - Impressive performance after replacing SOB
Vunipola - Murphy was decent, but Vunipola was just a bit better. Undeserved criticism on these boards.
Murray - Excellent
Sexton - Hamstring niggle will be a worry
Zebo - Got little chance ball in hand, bust excellent in defence and chasing kicks
Henshaw - Took his try well, and one excellent break. Six missed tackles counts against him.
Payne - Joseph saw quite a lot of the ball, but struggled to impose himself. Payne was quietly effective
Bowe - Almost anonymous, yet that is better than the high profile mistakes from Watson.
Goode - Both FBs were decent without excelling.

by GunsGerms Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:26 pm

Goode????????? Bahahahahahahah. God he was awful. I dont think he would get into any team other team in the 6 nations.

Calling a mark behind your own line is such a basic error.

by **Notch** Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:42 am

I'd go with

1) Eddy Ben Arous
2) Rory Best
3) Mike Ross
4) Alun Wyn Jones
5) Joshua Furno
6) Dan Lydiate
7) Tommy O'Donnell
8) Sergio Parisse
9) Conor Murray
10) Johnny Sexton
11) Simon Zebo
12) Jamie Roberts
13) Robbie Henshaw
14) Jack Nowell
15) Brice Dulin

Good round for front rowers. At just 24, Eddy Ben Arous could have a long and distinguished test career ahead of him. One of the players of the tournament so far for me. Also impressing; the Irish halfbacks, Joshua Furno and I couldn't resist putting Sonny Bill Lydiate in for this weekends game-changing piece of skill! I suppose Henshaws aerial take and finish wasn't far behind either.

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