Wimbledon Day 4 - McHale to the chief. Might have to throw a Li-sicki.

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Order of play

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/22713811

First up on centre court, McHale vs Lisicki. No, seriously.

The funny thing about this is that the match is on Browns racquet, pure and simple.

Let's see if this one sticks.

A set all it is.

Nadal levels it up at one set-all and goes hot favourite to win. Seppi through to play Murray after beating Coric in five sets.

Monfils though comfortably in straight sets and Troicki on the verge of beating Bedene in four sets.

Rafa wins the second set and the match is looking more like what one would expect. Rafa playing a little better and Dustin missing more too. All in all, Rafa looks the better of the two now.

It's great to see Dustin playing on centre court at Wimbledon...that alone is a dream come true.

I remember him and his mother, when I used to work at the Montego Bay Marine Park, and his mother would bring young Dustin to the neighbouring Cornwall Beach.  When I took my niece to get tennis lessons at the Upper deck facilities in Montego Bay, she would play with other kids there, including Dustin.  

After I left the Marine Park, a few years later I worked as a freelance public relations consultant, and I was contracted by the Jamaica Tourist Board to provide daily press releases on the Caribbean junior tennis tournament one year, when it was held at the same Upper Deck facilities in Montego Bay.  Dustin played in that junior tournament, but was soon knocked out.  However, a tall, powerfully-built Jamaican boy named Jermaine Smith demolished the opposition to win the boys' tournament playing serve and volley tennis. Jermaine beat players from countries such as Trinidad, Panama, Venezuela and Mexico.

It seemed to me at the time that Dustin looked up to Jermaine, and adopted his style of play, because as I watch this match, I see Jermaine Smith....

Lol. From Adv Nadal. Two Double Faults in succession, and Brown breaks

Rafa chokes away a break. Cannot find a first serve, hits back-to-back doubles. Horrible service game all around. Kind of out of nowhere as he has been otherwise looking better than in the early going.

It's the fragility of Rafa that is frightening at times.

Don't discount the pressure Brown is exerting.

bogbrush wrote:Don't discount the pressure Brown is exerting.

Oh I'm not Brown is playing great but at times Rafa has looked a pale shadow of himself. Lets be honest about that.

I've been saying Nadal is past it for a couple of years, I'm the guy whose taken the hits for that.

Rafa saves two BPs to avoid going 2:5 down. That may be important later in the set as Brown will now be facing pressure trying to hold serve a couple of more times.

It's still only been 6 months. He wasn't past it a couple of years ago either...

lags72 wrote:Embarrassing how little attention/credit was given to Sam Querrey on the Beeb during the warm-up.

Once lauded universally for its impartiality in matters of sport & politics, the BBC is little but a shadow of its former self.

It's always been way OTT of it's love for Roger. With Murray they've almost had to force themselves to like him, as he's not really a traditionalist - which is what they appear to love

If you keep saying someone's past it year after year. Then of course you will eventually be right. Don't know if it's now yet, good match regardless

Unfortunately for Rafa, the conditions are getting faster as the humidity decreases

Last thing you want to be facing is a player doing a pale imitation of Edberg

temporary21 wrote:If you keep saying someone's past it year after year. Then of course you will eventually be right. Don't know if it's now yet, good match regardless

But I am right, I'm just being proven so now. I didn't say it year after year, I said it when it happened. Lydian agreed and he knows.

banbrotam wrote:With Murray they've almost had to force themselves to like him

Why?

I do not like him.

Can Brown hold his nerve? He looked a little off in his last service game, and you know Rafa will press as best he can.

I don't agree  nothing else to it really. A couple of years ago he was still number one and winning slams.

Nadal does not manage to put too much pressure even though he gets a number of second serves.

2:1 for Dustin. This is becoming quite exciting.

Incredible. Brown leads two sets to one after two hours. I still feel a lot of this is about confidence (lack of) for Rafa. And this match must be like him revisiting the nightmares of previous years. He just doesn't have that steadfast, rock solid self-belief anymore for me.

To be fair, at the time you and Lydian were disagreed with for good reason. He won five masters and two slams in 2013. Then made back to back slam finals last year. The Wimbledon exit seems obligatory, so is a case of whatever.... Then he got injured, had his appendix removed, and then basically fell off a cliff form wise

summerblues wrote:

banbrotam wrote:With Murray they've almost had to force themselves to like him

Why?

I do not like him.

What's the relevance in that comment? I'm not criticising for whether they like a player or not, I'm making the point that they like willing traditionalists - Murray was a problem for them, from the moment he said his favourite slam was the US!!

Mine & Lydians view was that he was past his best. Not past winning, but on the slope.

Mine is Aus Open.

He went 75-6 in 2013 Boggy... You don't do that when you're past it unless you're suggesting that the era was... you know

Oh my. Rafa goes down a break right away.

God it's over. Guess I have to accept my Wawrinka love is gonna be all I have in the second week of slams from now on.

Yeah I mean he might be past it now. But the idea that validates he was past it a couple of years ago is factually incorrect.  I could say its 4 o'clock I cant then say at 4 see I was right all along

kingraf wrote:To be fair, at the time you and Lydian were disagreed with for good reason. He won five masters and two slams in 2013. Then made back to back slam finals last year. The Wimbledon exit seems obligatory, so is a case of whatever.... Then he got injured, had his appendix removed, and then basically fell off a cliff form wise

He's not the same and as I wrote before, I struggle to understand why anyone things he'll get back to what he was.

He's vulnerable to anyone can serve well / or rally with him comfortably for six shots / or players with variety / or hard hitter

i.e. just about anyone who has a good day

He no longer seems to have an accelerator that all the others in the Top 8 (even boring berd man) have to get rid of these lesser players

banbrotam wrote:What's the relevance in that comment? I'm not criticising for whether they like a player or not, I'm making the point that they like willing traditionalists - Murray was a problem for them, from the moment he said his favourite slam was the US!!

I guess what I was hinting at is that I did not understand your comment. Why would anyone force themselves to like Murray? If you like him, you like him, if you do not, you do not.

The time I'd say the worry that Nadal was over the hill came from the second half of last year onwards. He just looks lost and the rock solid self-belief that has always been there has now turned into crumbling self doubt in times of pressure. Some feel that physically he is not the specimen he was and that may be true as well and perhaps that goes to add more to the self doubting.

Credit to Brown for taking this chance as well and hopefully he can build on this (if it is to be a win). Somehow I doubt it though.

kingraf wrote:He went 75-6 in 2013 Boggy... You don't do that when you're past it unless you're suggesting that the era was... you know

I was saying it based on what I was looking at, not the W/L.

The BH hasn't been anywhere near 2007-10 level for ages.

CaledonianCraig wrote:The time I'd say the worry that Nadal was over the hill came from the second half of last year onwards. He just looks lost and the rock solid self-belief that has always been there has now turned into crumbling self doubt in times of pressure. Some feel that physically he is not the specimen he was and that may be true as well and perhaps that goes to add more to the self doubting.

Credit to Brown for taking this chance as well and hopefully he can build on this (if it is to be a win). Somehow I doubt it though.

To you maybe.

I saw it - and called it - long before that.

bogbrush wrote:Mine & Lydians view was that he was past his best. Not past winning, but on the slope.

I agree with this. Let's be honest the US Open in 2013, had Federer and Murray both with their own form issues for a variety of reasons. It was hardly a vintage event (neither was 2012 - but you won't get me complaining!!)

It's arguable that Roger is back to something like 2012 form and that Murray is playing the best ever - but still they would both be vulnerable to a good Novak or Stan, i.e. they've improved

Rafa's not improved since his US win and it's now starting to show

bogbrush wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:The time I'd say the worry that Nadal was over the hill came from the second half of last year onwards. He just looks lost and the rock solid self-belief that has always been there has now turned into crumbling self doubt in times of pressure. Some feel that physically he is not the specimen he was and that may be true as well and perhaps that goes to add more to the self doubting.

Credit to Brown for taking this chance as well and hopefully he can build on this (if it is to be a win). Somehow I doubt it though.

To you maybe.

I saw it - and called it - long before that.

Well I can't see how you can say he was past his best when he was still winning slams. That just seems a bit too extreme.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

bogbrush wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:The time I'd say the worry that Nadal was over the hill came from the second half of last year onwards. He just looks lost and the rock solid self-belief that has always been there has now turned into crumbling self doubt in times of pressure. Some feel that physically he is not the specimen he was and that may be true as well and perhaps that goes to add more to the self doubting.

Credit to Brown for taking this chance as well and hopefully he can build on this (if it is to be a win). Somehow I doubt it though.

To you maybe.

I saw it - and called it - long before that.

Well I can't see how you can say he was past his best when he was still winning slams. That just seems a bit too extreme.

Federer won Wimbledon in 2012 miles past his best.

You don't have to be peak to win a Slam.

[quote="summerblues"]

banbrotam wrote: Why would anyone force themselves to like Murray?  If you like him, you like him, if you do not, you do not.

But that's my point. Only the stuffed shirts at Wimbledon and the Beeb, would do this and it's simply because now he's a winner a bit more relaxed and polite

Brown doing the unthinkable v Nadal.

Nadal needs to hang in there on his service games - cannot allow another break. If he does that, there is still plenty of room for him to find an opening. One would think that if nothing else, Dustin is likely to tighten up.

bogbrush wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

bogbrush wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:The time I'd say the worry that Nadal was over the hill came from the second half of last year onwards. He just looks lost and the rock solid self-belief that has always been there has now turned into crumbling self doubt in times of pressure. Some feel that physically he is not the specimen he was and that may be true as well and perhaps that goes to add more to the self doubting.

Credit to Brown for taking this chance as well and hopefully he can build on this (if it is to be a win). Somehow I doubt it though.

To you maybe.

I saw it - and called it - long before that.

Well I can't see how you can say he was past his best when he was still winning slams. That just seems a bit too extreme.

Federer won Wimbledon in 2012 miles past his best.

You don't have to be peak to win a Slam.

But are you saying the Rafa that won RG last year was playing to the same standard of the Rafa playing now? I am not saying he was at his ultimate best 2014 RG but it was certainly a better standard than he is playing now. Discernibly the big drop-off in form in my opinion came in the second half of last year onwards.

I don't know. To say that a player will at some point be past it, about 2 years before it probably happens, isn't saying too much to me. Last year he still won a slam.  More than that, he still has scope to come back, the same way the others have

banbrotam wrote:But that's my point. Only the stuffed shirts at Wimbledon and the Beeb, would do this and it's simply because now he's a winner a bit more relaxed and polite

[/quote]
Oh I see what you mean. I misunderstood. Fair enough.

It's not even questionable that he's dropped off big time this year. He lost to Murray 3 and 3 on clay (no disrespect to Murray, but there's literally no other time since the last alignment of the planets where that could have happened)!!

temporary21 wrote:I don't know. To say that a player will at some point be past it, about 2 years before it probably happens, isn't saying too much to me. Last year he still won a slam.  More than that, he still has scope to come back, the same way the others have

I didn't, I said he WAS.

You know, you could disagree with me at the time but to claim I was wrong when I been proven right because you didn't see it is just a bit graceless.

Plus to bring semantics to this not really pointless debate, it's "past IT" rather than past his best... just some oil on the fire

Meanwhile, Rafa keeps his streak of showing new talents at Wimby Rosol 2012, Kyrgios 2014, Brown 2015??? (Ok , Darcis probably someone else's spot there )

5-3 Brown in the 4th, Nadal serving

5:3