Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

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Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by Sin é on Wed 05 Aug 2015, 11:27 am

First topic message reminder :

What it says in the title - a place to put all bits of news not worth starting a thread for the Four Proud Provinces of Ireland such as new signings, interviews that maybe of interest to others etc.

I've just added on 17 as its not a huge thread.


Last edited by Sin é on Tue 28 Jun 2016, 12:06 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by profitius on Sat 31 Oct 2015, 1:57 pm

Looking at the pro 12 table, the Irish teams are scoring on average about 25 points per game this season. They're also conceding a lot. I wonder have they been told or advised to play more attacking rugby in the Pro 12?

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by thebandwagonsociety on Mon 02 Nov 2015, 10:29 am

They are conceding more but only slightly (18.7 points so far this season compared to 17.4 points average on all of last season).

The Irish (25.0 from 23.1) and Italians (13.5 from 13.0) are up in points per game while the Scottish (20.1 from 21.3) and welsh (20.4 from 20.7) are down.

Think the improved scoring is down mostly to Connacht, they're scoring over a try more than last season (27.7 from 20.3). In fact they would be on track to score 608 points this season which is more than anyone managed last year.

The RWC impacting squads is a major factor though.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by SecretFly on Mon 02 Nov 2015, 11:36 am

More emphasis on attack will always leak points the other way.  It's a balance to be struck.  Maybe (hopefully) Nucifora is settling down now and with him, Schmidt and the retirements either arrived or just around the bend (Ross?),  it's now decided that we're going to get into something of a stage two in development.

Certainly a lot of pleasing attacking intent from Munster, Ulster and Leinster over the weekend.  And of course Connacht has been doing their stuff too.  It was as if a button had been pressed.  Press 'Play'. Wink

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by Artful_Dodger on Mon 02 Nov 2015, 7:21 pm

Rumour doing the rounds that Simon Zebo is going to sign for Toulouse.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 03 Nov 2015, 12:24 am

Artful_Dodger wrote:Rumour doing the rounds that Simon Zebo is going to sign for Leinster.

Fixed.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by ME-109 on Tue 03 Nov 2015, 12:21 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Artful_Dodger wrote:Rumour doing the rounds that Simon Zebo is going to sign for Leinster.

Fixed.

Possibly the only way he will get on the Irish team...

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by thebandwagonsociety on Tue 03 Nov 2015, 2:36 pm

Let me guess guys, it will be Leinster or Joe's fault somehow that Zeebs has decided to betray his allegiance to the Munster jersey and swan off to Toulouse like a money grabbing mercenary.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by thebandwagonsociety on Tue 03 Nov 2015, 2:38 pm

Also, just for the record, I'm not happy that Sexton is back from a Leinster POV. He quit the province and it has impacted on Leinster but also, and more importantly, impacted his performances for Ireland. He could have stayed in France at this stage

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by ME-109 on Tue 03 Nov 2015, 5:54 pm

Cant say its anyones fault. More like Zebo is looking at the facts as they stand.

Not on an Irish Contract.
Been in and now out of the Irish team. Probably feels he has done everything he can and his face dont fit with Joe..i.e dropping for the Scottish game, WC etc and this situation not likely to change.
Possibility to make a few shekels in France for a number of years.

Not apportioning blame on anyone here but he doesnt look like getting into the Ireland team and if a team like Toulouse want to throw some money at him. He might as well look after his own future now.


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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by Munchkin on Tue 03 Nov 2015, 7:31 pm

As far as I know it was just the one tweet that started the rumour. Zebo's agent probably put him up to it.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by profitius on Thu 05 Nov 2015, 2:04 pm

LEINSTER vs Scarlets:

15. Rob Kearney
14. Zane Kirchner
13. Garry Ringrose
12. Noel Reid
11. Cian Kelleher
10. Ian Madigan
9. Isaac Boss
1. Cian Healy
2. James Tracy
3. Mike Ross
4. Devin Toner
5. Tom Denton
6. Dominic Ryan
7. Sean O'Brien
8. Jamie Heaslip CAPTAIN

16. Bryan Byrne
17. Jack McGrath
18. Marty Moore
19. Hayden Triggs
20. Dan Leavy
21. Luke McGrath
22. Johnny Sexton
23. Ben Te'o


Connacht vs Treviso
Robbie Henshaw, Tiernan O'Halloran, Bundee Aki, Craig Ronaldson, Matt Healy, Jack Carty, John Cooney, Denis Buckley, Dave Heffernan, Nathan White, Ultan Dillane, Andrew Browne, John Muldoon (capt), Nepia Fox-Matamua, Eoin McKeon.

Replacements: Tom McCartney, Finlay Bealham, 18. Rodney Ah You, Aly Muldowney, Eoghan Masterson, Kieran Marmion, AJ MacGinty, Darragh Leader.


Kelleher and Tracy to make their first starts for Leinster. Ringrose to make his first start at 13.
AJ McGinty to make his first appearance for Connacht. Henshaw moves to fullback.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by Golden on Thu 05 Nov 2015, 2:14 pm

Very tough run of games coming up from Leinster. So makes sense for a bit of rotation.

Leinster Rugby    v   Scarlets  RDS Arena TG4/BBCW
ERCHAMPC-P5  Leinster Rugby    v   Wasps  RDS Arena BT/beIN
ERCHAMPC-P5  Bath Rugby    v   Leinster Rugby  Recreation Ground BT/beIN
PRO12  Leinster Rugby    v   Ulster Rugby  RDS Arena TG4/BBCNI
PRO12  Glasgow Warriors    v   Leinster Rugby  Scotstoun Stadium Sky 3/12  
ERCHAMPC-P5  RC Toulon    v   Leinster Rugby  Stade Felix Mayol FR2/Sky/beIN
ERCHAMPC-P5  Leinster Rugby    v   RC Toulon  Aviva Stadium Sky/beIN
PRO12  Munster Rugby    v   Leinster Rugby  Thomond Park Sky/TG4
PRO12  Leinster Rugby    v   Connacht Rugby  RDS Arena TG4
PRO12  Ospreys    v   Leinster Rugby  Liberty Stadium Sky TBC
ERCHAMPC-P5  Leinster Rugby    v   Bath Rugby  RDS Arena    
ERCHAMPC-P5  Wasps    v   Leinster Rugby

That brings them up to the end of January and theres no easy games.

Are Strauss and Cronin injured? Im surprised one of them isn't involved.

Also interesting to see Cooney coming straight back in for Marmion? How has he been so far this season?

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by thebandwagonsociety on Thu 05 Nov 2015, 4:22 pm

Wow that is some lineup of matches.

Thought the same about hooker for Leinster tomorrow, down beyond Cronin, Strauss and Dundon in the depth chart. Hope it is rotation as that isn't a fixture list for your 4th string hooker.

Also second row looks week beyond Toner, with Denton being a 'trier' at best and Triggs being closer to Trigger from OFAH.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by Golden on Thu 05 Nov 2015, 8:13 pm

Looks like Moloney is ahead of Denton going on the pro 12 matches so far.

Good to see Cullen trusting the youth. Breathe of fresh air after MOC.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by profitius on Tue 10 Nov 2015, 4:10 pm

James Tracy looked good for Leinster at the weekend. Leinster havn't developed a decent hooker since Shane Byrne (?) but Tracy could be that man.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by profitius on Thu 03 Dec 2015, 2:01 pm

Connacht (v Cardiff):

15. Tiernan O’Halloran
14. Darragh Leader
13. Bundee Aki
12. Craig Ronaldson
11. Matt Healy
10. Jack Carty
9. Ian Porter
1. Ronan Loughney
2. Dave Heffernan
3. Rodney Ah You
4. Quinn Roux
5. Aly Muldowney
6. John Muldoon (captain)
7. James Connolly
8. Eoin McKeon
Replacements:
16. Jason Harris-Wright
17. Conan O’Donnell
18. Finlay Bealham
19. George Naoupu
20. Sean O’Brien
21. Kieran Marmion
22. Peter Robb
23. Rory Parata
Ulster (v Edinburgh):

15. Peter Nelson
14. Andrew Trimble
13. Darren Cave
12. Luke Marshall
11. Rory Scholes
10. Paddy Jackson
9. Ruan Pienaar
1. Kyle McCall
2. Rob Herring (captain)
3. Ricky Lutton
4. Dan Tuohy
5. Franco van der Merwe
6. Iain Henderson
7. Chris Henry
8. Roger Wilson
Replacements:
16. John Andrew
17. Andrew Warwick
18. Wiehahn Herbst
19. Alan O’Connor
20. Nick Williams
21. Paul Marshall
22. Stuart McCloskey
23. Louis Ludik

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by profitius on Thu 03 Dec 2015, 2:07 pm

15 players out for Connacht. Squad really stretched.
Peter Robb gets a chance on the bench as does highly rated U20 prop Conan O'Donnell.


Good to see Alan O'Connor and Luke Marshall back for Ulster. I'd like to see Luke Marshall get a run of games.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by profitius on Tue 08 Dec 2015, 1:08 am

Irish times reporting

Madigan to Munster
Ah-You to Ulster
Leinster tighthead to Connacht
Henshaw to Leinster


Leinster looking at a few Kiwi scrumhalfs.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by wolfball on Tue 08 Dec 2015, 2:06 am

profitius wrote:Irish times reporting

Madigan to Munster
Ah-You to Ulster
Leinster tighthead to Connacht
Henshaw to Leinster


Leinster looking at a few Kiwi scrumhalfs.

Can't open the ITs site to confirm the above, but seems like a mental set of moves...

Madigan to Munster? Why not keep JJ last year? Who is second OH at Leinster now?
Ah-You to Ulster? Why not a Leinster prop instead of Connacht (Connacht huge injury issues). And why not a backrower to Ulster?
Leinster Tight to Connacht? Sounds like a "we are taking your best back, so here is an upgrade on Ah You to repalce him.. Would prefer to keep Henshaw learning under Lam...
Leinster after Kiwi (journeyman) scrumhalves... Well maybe just try and promote from academy? And get rid of Boss and Reddan? Scrum half is too weak a national position for NIQ in my opinion.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by munkian on Tue 08 Dec 2015, 9:36 am

Ben Te'o will very probably leave Leinster as English/French clubs could potentially double his salary according to Twitter


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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by rodders on Tue 08 Dec 2015, 10:00 am

Sounds like Ulster have lost out on Vito. Rhys Ruddock will have to do instead.... Wink


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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by Sin é on Tue 08 Dec 2015, 1:41 pm

wolfball wrote:
profitius wrote:Irish times reporting

Madigan to Munster
Ah-You to Ulster
Leinster tighthead to Connacht
Henshaw to Leinster


Leinster looking at a few Kiwi scrumhalfs.

Can't open the ITs site to confirm the above, but seems like a mental set of moves...

Madigan to Munster? Why not keep JJ last year? Who is second OH at Leinster now?
Ah-You to Ulster? Why not a Leinster prop instead of Connacht (Connacht huge injury issues). And why not a backrower to Ulster?
Leinster Tight to Connacht? Sounds like a "we are taking your best back, so here is an upgrade on Ah You to repalce him.. Would prefer to keep Henshaw learning under Lam...
Leinster after Kiwi (journeyman) scrumhalves... Well maybe just try and promote from academy? And get rid of Boss and Reddan? Scrum half is too weak a national position for NIQ in my opinion.

Joe clearing the lines for Henshaw to move to Leinster. I really, really hope that Henshaw stays in Connacht for another 2 years. It just isn't fair on them.

Munster don't need Madigan as he isn't any better than anything else we have and will only block the development of Scannell & Johnston (who looks to be a real talent).



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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by Munchkin on Tue 08 Dec 2015, 1:51 pm

Why would they move him to Leinster? More game time at centre?

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by marty2086 on Tue 08 Dec 2015, 1:54 pm

profitius wrote:Irish times reporting

Ah-You to Ulster


That's a baffling one, Herbst has been poor this season but hopefully something a bit of coaching will sort. Luttons looked good this season and probably would have last season if he had been given a chance furious Bronson Ross is unspectacular but solid Pro12 prop with McCall also able to cover there

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by Munchkin on Tue 08 Dec 2015, 1:57 pm

Maybe they have given up on Herbst? Give Ludik the project slot?

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by Sin é on Tue 08 Dec 2015, 1:58 pm

Munchkin wrote:Why would they move him to Leinster? More game time at centre?

I believe the reasonsing would be build up a partnership with Sexton (oh, and improve Leinster's options). Wink

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by Munchkin on Tue 08 Dec 2015, 2:05 pm

Sin é wrote:
Munchkin wrote:Why would they move him to Leinster? More game time at centre?

I believe the reasonsing would be build up a partnership with Sexton (oh, and improve Leinster's options). Wink

I still think it stinks, if it's true that they are moving him. It just doesn't sit right with me that they would deny Connacht one of their star players, especially when they are doing so well now. Is that a fitting reward for success?

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by marty2086 on Tue 08 Dec 2015, 2:07 pm

Suppose it all depends what TH would be going to Connacht as you wouldn't want to weaken them at this stage of their development

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by Sin é on Tue 08 Dec 2015, 5:07 pm

marty2086 wrote:Suppose it all depends what TH would be going to Connacht as you wouldn't want to weaken them at this stage of their development

Its seems Mike Ross is the favourite one to go (because they wouldn't want to weaken Leinster in any way Wink

It seems like jobs for (the Leinsterboys) here. If Leinster don't want them, discard them in the other Provinces.


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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Tue 08 Dec 2015, 7:46 pm

So are these merely rumours or are these likely to happen? I will be very disappointed regarding Robbie Henshaw. Surely they will want to push Garry Ringrose for the starting 13 shirt. Unless they are still persisting with Henshaw at 12.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by profitius on Tue 08 Dec 2015, 8:06 pm

Sin é wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Suppose it all depends what TH would be going to Connacht as you wouldn't want to weaken them at this stage of their development

Its seems Mike Ross is the favourite one to go (because they wouldn't want to weaken Leinster in any way Wink

It seems like jobs for (the Leinsterboys) here. If Leinster don't want them, discard them in the other Provinces.


Don't think Connacht would be happy with getting Mike Ross. He has about a year left and then they'd have to find a new tighthead. Nathan White is almost as old as Ross. Likewise Leinster will want to keep Moore and especially Furlong.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by The Great Aukster on Tue 08 Dec 2015, 9:02 pm

Top players won't stay in Ireland unless they have a chance of winning things. Concentrating all the top players in one or two provinces will keep them in Ireland and give them experience playing together to help the Test team.

Is it better to have the very best players at one province where they can be competitive in Europe or dilute them over four provinces where they all stand a chance in the League but can forget about Europe?

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by Engine#4 on Tue 08 Dec 2015, 9:17 pm

Henshaw moving to Leinster will be used as an excuse to stick the boot in to the province and the national management by many but if he does move it will be because he wants to.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by Munchkin on Tue 08 Dec 2015, 9:44 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:Top players won't stay in Ireland unless they have a chance of winning things. Concentrating all the top players in one or two provinces will keep them in Ireland and give them experience playing together to help the Test team.

Is it better to have the very best players at one province where they can be competitive in Europe or dilute them over four provinces where they all stand a chance in the League but can forget about Europe?

It's much, much, better to have the four Provinces competing against one another on equal terms. Personally, I find the idea that one Province could be selected by IRFU to receive all of Irelands top players, repulsive. That would be crossing the line, for me. What would be the point in supporting any of the Provinces? It would be Ireland Test side, and Ireland Club side. I really don't like the idea of IRFU dictating where players are to go, and which NIQ players the Provinces can sign. I support the NIQ cap, but my support stops there.

It wasn't that long ago that three of the Provinces were at the top of European rugby.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Tue 08 Dec 2015, 10:01 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:Top players won't stay in Ireland unless they have a chance of winning things. Concentrating all the top players in one or two provinces will keep them in Ireland and give them experience playing together to help the Test team.

Is it better to have the very best players at one province where they can be competitive in Europe or dilute them over four provinces where they all stand a chance in the League but can forget about Europe?

Currently the only province that looks as if it may actually be on an upward curve is Connacht. That is more than what we can say for the rest of them. What if Robbie Henshaw were to move just when his team get a good opportunity within the European Cup next year? I actually don't think it is a good move either for him or for his province. I think this move would officially confirm his transition to 12, where it must surely be clear he isn't as effective.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by The Great Aukster on Wed 09 Dec 2015, 9:39 am

Munchkin wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Top players won't stay in Ireland unless they have a chance of winning things. Concentrating all the top players in one or two provinces will keep them in Ireland and give them experience playing together to help the Test team.

Is it better to have the very best players at one province where they can be competitive in Europe or dilute them over four provinces where they all stand a chance in the League but can forget about Europe?

It's much, much, better to have the four Provinces competing against one another on equal terms. Personally, I find the idea that one Province could be selected by IRFU to receive all of Irelands top players, repulsive. That would be crossing the line, for me. What would be the point in supporting any of the Provinces? It would be Ireland Test side, and Ireland Club side. I really don't like the idea of IRFU dictating where players are to go, and which NIQ players the Provinces can sign. I support the NIQ cap, but my support stops there.

It wasn't that long ago that three of the Provinces were at the top of European rugby.

It's not that long ago, but then the money gap has widened dramatically since Toulon proved that money can win things. Look at the squads in the ProD2 in France and see how many top imports they have! Market forces mean that instead of Leinster having say 3 or 4 top homegrown players AND guys like Contepomi, Elsom, and Thorne, they can't now afford such a wide array of superstars. If the IRFU are footing most of the bill for centrally contracted players anyway then concentrating them at one province will at least keep that province competitive in Europe.

I don't like it any more than you do but the alternative isn't much better - players leaving for England and France to play at the highest club level they can and getting rewarded accordingly. Is it better to encourage Henshaw to go to Leinster rather than say Clermont?

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by Munchkin on Wed 09 Dec 2015, 12:35 pm

We were never going to compete with the wealth of the top French sides. The only way we can compete is by developing more players through the academies, and keeping our top players. We are doing well on keeping the top players, and hopefully all academies will become more productive.
I think because of the uncertainty caused by the Euro cup battle, none of the Provinces invested as much as they normally would have in NIQ signings. I'm not sure it was anything to do with a lack of finances. Ferris let slip that Ulster probably should have spent much more on the recent signings because they had the money to do so.
Why is Henshaw limited to either moving to Leinster or a big French side? If he moves outside of the Provinces he is risking his international career. If, on top of what IRFU are prepared to pay, he's asking for more than Connacht can afford, and Leinster can, then I can understand that. I'm not convinced that is the reason though. The reason seems to be that IRFU want him playing for Leinster. Something that I completely disagree with, unless it is Henshaw himself that wants that move.
IRFU placing all their players into one team would make a mockery of the Provinces. The Provinces would lose their identity as Provinces, and supporters would simply stop supporting. What would be the point? None of the other Provinces could compete in Pro12 or Europe. In fact, we would be lucky to make the top 6 in Pro12, and have to play in the lesser cup.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by The Great Aukster on Wed 09 Dec 2015, 7:37 pm

Manu Tuilagi was reputedly offered £750k per season from France and has settled for £425k at the Tigers. Despite the hype, from what I've seen he's no rugby messiah, is injury prone and a potential marketing liability - Henshaw is at least on a par with him.

If Henshaw is interested in Ireland caps then Leinster is a far better place to be than Connacht, and if he is interested in money then France is a far better place to be than Galway. Not the only options I agree but the most likely depending on his ambitions.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by Munchkin on Wed 09 Dec 2015, 7:54 pm

Considering Connacht were at the top of the league, and currently 2nd, and considering the great coaching they are getting, why is Leinster a far better place to be for caps? Is he not getting plenty of caps now, and is he less likely to get caps if he stays at Connacht? The answer to both the last two questions is he is getting plenty of caps with Connacht, and that will not change if he were to remain at Connacht.


Cockers has stated that the alleged signing fee for Tuilagi is nonsense, although it's obviously more than he was previously getting. I would expect Henshaw to be more than on par with Tuilagi in the future, but not yet. He has still some way to go to prove his worth for Ireland. It isn't even certain than he is in the right position.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by The Great Aukster on Wed 09 Dec 2015, 8:56 pm

Munchkin wrote:Considering Connacht were at the top of the league, and currently 2nd, and considering the great coaching they are getting, why is Leinster a far better place to be for caps? Is he not getting plenty of caps now, and is he less likely to get caps if he stays at Connacht? The answer to both the last two questions is he is getting plenty of caps with Connacht, and that will not change if he were to remain at Connacht.


Cockers has stated that the alleged signing fee for Tuilagi is nonsense, although it's obviously more than he was previously getting. I would expect Henshaw to be more than on par with Tuilagi in the future, but not yet. He has still some way to go to prove his worth for Ireland. It isn't even certain than he is in the right position.

Leinster have consistently had more Test caps than Connacht in the professional era.
Leinster have consistently played at a higher level that Connacht in Europe and are likely to continue to do so.
Leinster have consistently finished higher than Connacht in the League.
Leinster have more players in the current Test team than Connacht - familiarity is an issue.
Leinster have Sexton who is the starting Test 10 and therefore the most desirable partner for a club 12.

Henshaw will face opposition from McCloskey, maybe Marshall and ...
Henshaw will face opposition from the Academy hopefuls who will be playing at Leinster.
Henshaw will be moved around positions at Connacht
Schmidt knows Leinster and has shown a bias towards them in the past.

Logically (based on the above) Henshaw has more chance of caps at Leinster than Connacht, unless Lam gets Connacht to finish above them in the League. (BTW how long will Lam be at Connacht for if they win the League?) Even then being a big fish in a small pond isn't a great resume for Test rugby because the change in quality around him is bigger. Arguably if Connacht win the League he should have a lot more of his team mates beside him in green, but right now any such change is two seasons away.

Let's say he stays at Connacht, on enough money to stop him going overseas and is the first name on the Ireland team sheet. Is he more likely to gain club honours at Connacht or Leinster, and should that have any bearing on his career?

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by Munchkin on Wed 09 Dec 2015, 9:13 pm

Your first 4 points are ridiculous. Of course Leinster have more Test caps, have done better in Europe, have finished higher than Connacht in the league and have more players in the Test team. So what? None of that is relevant to the here and present.
Connacht are the ones at the top of the league, not Leinster.
Connacht are the team with great coaching, not Leinster.
Connacht are the team that brought Henshaw through, not Leinster

You haven't answered my question; Why Leinster?

Yes, Henshaw will face that opposition. So what? It isn't as if his going to Leinster will mean he no longer faces that level of competition, and it isn't as if Leinster have more to offer Henshaw than Connacht, in terms of coaching. Do you really think Henshaw is better under the coaching of Cullen than he would be under Lam? Not a chance. There is zero evidence to suggest this. Any evidence is to the contrary.

So what if he moved around at Connacht? By moved around I take you to mean between Fullback and centre. Schmidt would be all for it. He loves a versatile player, and actively encourages it.
What about Henderson? Should he move to Leinster as well? Sure it only makes sense. He will be partnered with Toner, and Leinster would never think of playing him in the backrow, unlike Ulster do!

How long will Cullen be in contract? How long will Kiss be in his contract? Clutching at straws there, Aukster...

Right now he is more likely to gain club honours at Connacht. I'm sure you've noticed that Connacht is the only Province moving forward....

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Wed 09 Dec 2015, 9:28 pm

Aukster - firstly you are working from the premise that Robbie Henshaw will remain at 12. My question would be why he would prefer to play in the position where he gets less opportunity to show his considerable attacking prowess and where he will be in direct competition with more players at a similar age. If he pitches his claim for the 13 shirt he could actually have a very long career there and offer a real threat that has been lacking. In fact, the only challenger would be Garry Ringrose, who is still very green and currently lacks the physical attributes that Henshaw possesses.

Also, the past is rather irrelevant at the moment. The big name provinces look rather terrible and Ulster in particular seem to be regressing more than anything. Connacht look like they have a very good team, good coaching and a skill set that is currently above what the other provinces offer. Their success over the next few years could be crucial for both the province itself and for the national team.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by Marshes on Wed 09 Dec 2015, 9:37 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:

Leinster have consistently had more Test caps than Connacht in the professional era.
Leinster have consistently played at a higher level that Connacht in Europe and are likely to continue to do so.
Leinster have consistently finished higher than Connacht in the League.
Leinster have more players in the current Test team than Connacht - familiarity is an issue.
Leinster have Sexton who is the starting Test 10 and therefore the most desirable partner for a club 12.

Henshaw will face opposition from McCloskey, maybe Marshall and ...
Henshaw will face opposition from the Academy hopefuls who will be playing at Leinster.
Henshaw will be moved around positions at Connacht
Schmidt knows Leinster and has shown a bias towards them in the past.

Logically (based on the above) Henshaw has more chance of caps at Leinster than Connacht, unless Lam gets Connacht to finish above them in the League. (BTW how long will Lam be at Connacht for if they win the League?) Even then being a big fish in a small pond isn't a great resume for Test rugby because the change in quality around him is bigger. Arguably if Connacht win the League he should have a lot more of his team mates beside him in green, but right now any such change is two seasons away.

Let's say he stays at Connacht, on enough money to stop him going overseas and is the first name on the Ireland team sheet. Is he more likely to gain club honours at Connacht or Leinster, and should that have any bearing on his career?

Not really sure which point you are making here. Is it that Leinster have been historically a more successful club than Connacht? Yeah fair enough. Would Henshaw have a better probability of winning titles with Leinster? Yes, probably. Should we start grouping Irish Internationals at one province?! No chance. Going even further away from the three successful clubs we had not so long ago to one competitive club at the expense of the others is definitely not the way forward, the opposite is true. Bringing Connacht to parity brings more possible players to the fold internationally, and in the long run benefits the national team.

Henshaw will have competition, but is he any more likely to be able to face that competition at Leinster? Or any less likely to have to play in other positions? I don't understand the logic here. Again on the contrary, any Leinster youth product would not have nearly the opportunities Henshaw or others at Connacht have had (look at Noel Reid). Also learning to play multiple positions is a big benefit early on, Henshaw made the breakthrough at 15. Schimdt didn't have the bias when he picked Henshaw in the first place.

Why would we group them at Leinster anyway? All of the Leinster internationals in the backs that the 22 year old Henshaw would be playing with are on close to or on the wrong side of 30 (Sexton, Reddan, Kearney) or are not secure in their positions in the squad let alone the team (D. Kearney, Fitzgerald). Unless more of the Connacht lads moved to Dublin, at the minute it looks like there is more future internationals in the Connacht squad than the Leinster squad.

The IRFU should make it very clear they will financially make it comparable if Henshaw stays in Connacht. If he leaves for more medals, fair enough, it won't be the first time, but there is a great opportunity here to strike while the iron is as hot as it has been.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by Marshes on Wed 09 Dec 2015, 9:40 pm

Also no offence to 36 year old Mike Ross, but moving him to Connacht in any form of deal for Henshaw would be a slap in the face from the IRFU.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by LeinsterFan4life on Thu 10 Dec 2015, 12:02 am

Marshes wrote:Also no offence to 36 year old Mike Ross, but moving him to Connacht in any form of deal for Henshaw would be a slap in the face from the IRFU.
There is no deal. Henshaw is free to go where he wishes.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by Marshes on Thu 10 Dec 2015, 12:10 am

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Marshes wrote:Also no offence to 36 year old Mike Ross, but moving him to Connacht in any form of deal for Henshaw would be a slap in the face from the IRFU.
There is no deal. Henshaw is free to go where he wishes.

I agree I don't think it will happen , jut commenting on what was posted above. I'd like commitment from the IRFU that if it is his wish is to stay, it is as financially viable for him as it would be at any other province.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by LeinsterFan4life on Thu 10 Dec 2015, 12:23 am

Marshes wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Marshes wrote:Also no offence to 36 year old Mike Ross, but moving him to Connacht in any form of deal for Henshaw would be a slap in the face from the IRFU.
There is no deal. Henshaw is free to go where he wishes.

I agree I don't think it will happen , jut commenting on what was posted above. I'd like commitment from the IRFU that if it is his wish is to stay, it is as financially viable for him as it would be at any other province.
Ye I think he will stay too and Ross would certainly be a good short term signing for Connacht while they search for another TH .I just hate seeing people suggest that this is a decision the IRFU are making. This is his choice at the end of the day just like it was Mike McCarty's or anyone else who has moved between the provinces choice.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by Marshes on Thu 10 Dec 2015, 12:46 am

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Marshes wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Marshes wrote:Also no offence to 36 year old Mike Ross, but moving him to Connacht in any form of deal for Henshaw would be a slap in the face from the IRFU.
There is no deal. Henshaw is free to go where he wishes.

I agree I don't think it will happen , jut commenting on what was posted above. I'd like commitment from the IRFU that if it is his wish is to stay, it is as financially viable for him as it would be at any other province.
Ye I think he will stay too and Ross would certainly be a good short term signing for Connacht while they search for another TH .I just hate seeing people suggest that this is a decision the IRFU are making. This is his choice at the end of the day just like it was Mike McCarty's or anyone else who has moved between the provinces choice.

I wouldn't think Ross to be a good deal for Connacht tbh, I don't know what he has left to give for a club like them. I see Ah You hopefully staying as he comes into his prime with White as backup. Then some eager and motivated young props coming through like Bealham (who has been solid when called on) and JP Cooney and learning from them. No point blocking their development to put Ross out to pasture!

It is Henshaw's choic but the IRFU has a part to play in this, not in forcing his hand in where he goes, but ensuring the choice is made by Henshaw's heart and not his wallet.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by LeinsterFan4life on Thu 10 Dec 2015, 1:03 am

Marshes wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Marshes wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Marshes wrote:Also no offence to 36 year old Mike Ross, but moving him to Connacht in any form of deal for Henshaw would be a slap in the face from the IRFU.
There is no deal. Henshaw is free to go where he wishes.

I agree I don't think it will happen , jut commenting on what was posted above. I'd like commitment from the IRFU that if it is his wish is to stay, it is as financially viable for him as it would be at any other province.
Ye I think he will stay too and Ross would certainly be a good short term signing for Connacht while they search for another TH .I just hate seeing people suggest that this is a decision the IRFU are making. This is his choice at the end of the day just like it was Mike McCarty's or anyone else who has moved between the provinces choice.

I wouldn't think Ross to be a good deal for Connacht tbh, I don't know what he has left to give for a club like them. I see Ah You hopefully staying as he comes into his prime with White as backup. Then some eager and motivated young props coming through like Bealham (who has been solid when called on) and JP Cooney and learning from them. No point blocking their development to put Ross out to pasture!

It is Henshaw's choic but the IRFU has a part to play in this, not in forcing his hand in where he goes, but ensuring the choice is made by Henshaw's heart and not his wallet.
Well the provinces allegedly can't outbid each other but we don't really have a clue how it all really works.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

Post by rodders on Thu 10 Dec 2015, 10:06 am

Marshes wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Marshes wrote:Also no offence to 36 year old Mike Ross, but moving him to Connacht in any form of deal for Henshaw would be a slap in the face from the IRFU.
There is no deal. Henshaw is free to go where he wishes.

I agree I don't think it will happen , jut commenting on what was posted above. I'd like commitment from the IRFU that if it is his wish is to stay, it is as financially viable for him as it would be at any other province.

It's pretty clear from Henshaw's comments that he wants to go to Leinster. I'm sure that Nucifera will be in people's ears to try and convince players of where the want them but ultimately it will be up to the players.

Assuming Jonny Sexton will be 1st choice 10 for a number of seasons it would be pretty obvious that the IRFU would want their preferred starting 12 outside him at club level and at a province which is as much as guaranteed to be in Europe each season rather than Connacht, who despite currently being the form province this season aren't.

It's tough on Connacht if he leaves but they look to have plenty of quality still in their backline.

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Re: Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

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