South Africa v Ireland, 11 June

by **George Carlin** Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:49 pm

First topic message reminder :

South Africa v Ireland, 11 June - Page 8 Sa10

South Africa v Ireland, 11 June - Page 8 Irelan10

SOUTH AFRICA v IRELAND
11 June 2016
17:00 SAST (UTC+02)
DHL Newlands, Cape Town

Live on Sky Sports

Referee: Mathieu Raynal (France)
Touch judges: [tbc]
Television match official: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

22 Played 22
16 Won 5
1 Drawn 1
5 Lost 16
422 Points 277

B. Recent Form

8 November 2014 - Aviva Stadium, Dublin: 29 – 15 to Ireland

10 November 2012 - Aviva Stadium, Dublin: 12 – 16 to South Africa

6 November 2010 - Aviva Stadium, Dublin: 21 – 23 to South Africa

28 November 2009 - Croke Park, Dublin: 15 – 10 to Ireland

11 November 2006 - Lansdowne Road, Dublin: 32 – 15 to Ireland

13 November 2004 - Lansdowne Road, Dublin: 17 – 12 to Ireland

19 June 2004 - Newlands, Cape Town: 26 – 17 to South Africa

C. Teams

SOUTH AFRICA
South Africa v Ireland, 11 June - Page 8 Al_cot10

South Africa v Ireland, 11 June - Page 8 Al_cot10

15 Willie le Roux, 14 JP Pietersen, 13 Lionel Mapoe, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Lwazi Mvovo, 10 Pat Lambie, 9 Faf de Klerk, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Siya Kolisi, 6 Francois Louw, 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Adriaan Strauss (captain), 1 Tendai Mtawarira

Substitutes: 16 Bongi Mbonambi 17 Trevor Nyakane 18 Julian Redelinghuys 19 Pieter-Steph du Toit 20 Warren Whiteley 21 Rudy Paige 22 Elton Jantjies 23 Jesse Kriel

IRELAND
South Africa v Ireland, 11 June - Page 8 Joe-sc10

South Africa v Ireland, 11 June - Page 8 Joe-sc10

J Payne; A Trimble, R Henshaw, L Marshall, K Earls; P Jackson, C Murray; J McGrath, R Best, M Ross; I Henderson, D Toner; CJ Stander, J Murphy, J Heaslip

Replacements: S Cronin, F Bealham, T Furlong, U Dillane, R Ruddock, K Marmion, I Madigan, C Gilroy.

by Pot Hale Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:25 pm

Biltong wrote:
Notch wrote:There's three things to note about CJ Stander

1) He was told he was too small to play back row for South Africa by a high-level coach
2) He was told his only chance of playing test rugby was moving to hooker by the same coach
3) Even had he taken that advice, he would be looking on now and seeing that the reserve hooker for the Boks this weekend is picked because of the colour of his skin.

Would any of us honestly be able to say we'd just accept that? Or would we do whatever it takes to play at the highest level?

Now let me say this- I do not support residency naturalisation after three years. I think it needs to be changed for the sake of World Rugby. But that is to protect nations like Fiji, Samoa etc. and minnows. In the case of South African rugby, I would never blame any player for deciding they should play for another nation.

1) There is a fixation on size which leaves some truly outstanding players unfairly neglected
2) Within South African sporting culture, the criticism is unbelievable and highly personal if the team under performs. The fans seem to turn on players in incredibly harsh ways if they commit the cardinal crime of having a bad game, but then demand absolute loyalty in return. I've observed this with South African players in Ulster who are absolutely amazed that even when the team performs badly the fans still turn up to support it and there is no abuse of players. Ruan Pienaar is a case in point- a sublimely gifted player who would walk into most test rugby sides is regularly lambasted on online forums and in the press in SA. Maybe a cultural difference but when I read South African rugby blogs I'm often shocked at the level of aggression in there comments addressed towards players. It's incredibly hostile and unforgiving.
3) Even if you put up with that and tick all the boxes, even if you work hard all your life and are genuinely the best of the best, the Sports Minister and the SA government don't care if you don't fulfil a racial quota. There used to be 23 places up for grabs. If you are the wrong ethnicity, soon there will only be 11 or 12 places if the SA government has it's way.

I would say to anyone who is in an abusive relationship that they have the right to get up and leave, and this is the rugby equivalent. A player who is neglected, whose potential is stifled in their home nation, has a right to explore their options. So while I believe the residency loophole should be ended post haste I also would like to congratulate CJ Stander on proving a lot of people back in South Africa wrong and hope he continues his excellent form. He's proud to pull on the Irish jersey not because he's Irish, but because after South African rugby treated him like it did Ireland was the country who invested in him and helped him reach his potential. Well, that being the case, I'm very proud to have him and I'm very proud to see him represent Ireland. And the word traitor only has as much meaning as the thing you 'betray'.

Notch, I don't often disagree or criticise anything you say, but that sounds a bit like some righteous dribble. Every nation has an element of aggressive supporters who take no care in whether they respect players.

And yes I take note that you disagree with the residency issue.

But let us also remember your country benefits from all that you are saying.

Easy to be more righteous and forgiving when you sit on that side of the fence

Agreed Bilt.

by **Notch** Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:27 pm

Biltong wrote:Good on you for getting the heck outta there?

That's my view, yes.

Because if you are not respected and not valued, why should you stay? If you are written off and rejected by the rugby establishment there then you owe them nothing. You owe your country nothing. When it's a choice between having a rugby career and your career coming to a standstill, good for you for showing the ambition and the initiative to take the choice that is most true to yourself and your ambition to be the best you can be.

I don't see Ulster fans or Ireland fans abusing Tommy Seymour when he plays for Scotland against us, and nor should we. He was told he was well down the pecking order in Irish Rugby and not given a fair chance to change that. And so he went to Scotland, became successful and is playing test rugby. Good on him. I would never call him a traitor- if anything I'm proud to see another home-grown Ulsterman playing rugby at the highest level.

by **Biltong** Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:30 pm

Notch wrote:
Biltong wrote:Good on you for getting the heck outta there?

That's my view.

Because if you are not respected and not valued, why should you stay? If you are written off and rejected by the rugby establishment there then you owe them nothing. You owe your country nothing. When it's a choice between having a rugby career and your career coming to a standstill, good for you for showing the ambition and the initiative to take the choice that is most true to yourself and your ambition.

Don't forget the guy was in his first season of professional rugby, and listened to one coaches opinion.

Perhaps jumping the gun should come to mind?

by **Notch** Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:31 pm

Biltong wrote:
Notch wrote:
Biltong wrote:Good on you for getting the heck outta there?

That's my view.

Because if you are not respected and not valued, why should you stay? If you are written off and rejected by the rugby establishment there then you owe them nothing. You owe your country nothing. When it's a choice between having a rugby career and your career coming to a standstill, good for you for showing the ambition and the initiative to take the choice that is most true to yourself and your ambition.

Don't forget the guy was in his first season of professional rugby, and listened to one coaches opinion.

Perhaps jumping the gun should come to mind?

Maybe, maybe not- we don't know. Thats the point. We are in no position to judge him.

by **Biltong** Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:37 pm

Notch wrote:
Biltong wrote:
Notch wrote:
Biltong wrote:Good on you for getting the heck outta there?

That's my view.

Because if you are not respected and not valued, why should you stay? If you are written off and rejected by the rugby establishment there then you owe them nothing. You owe your country nothing. When it's a choice between having a rugby career and your career coming to a standstill, good for you for showing the ambition and the initiative to take the choice that is most true to yourself and your ambition.

Don't forget the guy was in his first season of professional rugby, and listened to one coaches opinion.

Perhaps jumping the gun should come to mind?

Maybe, maybe not- we don't know. Thats the point. We are in no position to judge him.

But he left. That is the one fact we know, and he didn't leave for the pizza.

by No 7&1/2 Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:43 pm

Simple case of cap someone you want to keep.

by SecretFly Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:44 pm

Biltong wrote:I am surprised at the reaction I get for the word traitor.

When you turn your back on your country for another what are you, an opportunist?

Turncoat?

Disloyal?

Which word is more acceptable in First world countries?'

Lucky?

Good on you for getting the heck outta there?

You're a traitor...if that's what your fellow Nationals believe you to be. Nobody ever walks into a bar and says "Hi, could I have a pint. By the way, I'm a traitor".

Traitor is a word others use against someone and people have died for being called it in other circumstances. Maybe they had their conscientious reasons, moral reasons etc for doing what they did (Rommel) but that doesn't matter if your countrymen call you a traitor. That's what you are.

But then, people can challenge those who declare someone a traitor too. They can examine whether there is any hypocrisy on the go. And virtually, in any sphere of life, there always is hypocrisy on display. So people throw that word out too.

On the game ... Whistle

Hope Paddy holds the nerves and grows and grows into the game. If he gets his team into a nice rhythm (which he's showing he can increasingly do) then we're in with a shout. He'll get attention too of course. But if he settles into the role of expecting the attention rather than fearing it, we're off.

by mikey_dragon Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:48 pm

Maybe some should try and see this from a SA perspective. The rich clubs in world rugby pillage their talent pool, almost as badly as thePacific Islands - SA has a conveyor belt of talent but it will eventually dent their teams and halt their progress.

by **Biltong** Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:49 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Simple case of cap someone you want to keep.

It is rather difficult to cap every potential player you might use as a springbok.

One issue you guys often forget, we lose a boatload of players every year, it impacts the quality of our domestic teams. If we come across as unhappy.

Consider the full ramifications of this situation.

by No 7&1/2 Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:52 pm

It happens to England plenty as well. Just professionals looking to progress their career. They've not traitors to their country, team or anyone though. That's all, just too strong a word.

by Marshes Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:52 pm

Biltong wrote:
Notch wrote:
Biltong wrote:Good on you for getting the heck outta there?

That's my view.

Because if you are not respected and not valued, why should you stay? If you are written off and rejected by the rugby establishment there then you owe them nothing. You owe your country nothing. When it's a choice between having a rugby career and your career coming to a standstill, good for you for showing the ambition and the initiative to take the choice that is most true to yourself and your ambition.

Don't forget the guy was in his first season of professional rugby, and listened to one coaches opinion.

Perhaps jumping the gun should come to mind?

Bil I think SA are definitely sinned against in terms of players being tempted abroad, Strauss and Quinn Roux spring to mind. With Stander I thought it would be more a case like AJ MacGinty? Not sure how familiar you are with him, but he is Irish born and played schools here, but was never considered at the required level, went to the US and ended up being capped there, before moving back to Ireland to play for Connacht. Fair enough if not, maybe too much is made of the whole "coach said he was too small" angle.

Another questions for me, probably a stupid one, but I knew Beast was Zimbabwean and moved when he was 18 to SA, and there was a problem regarding his eligibility for the boks (same for Mujati at Northampton I believe too?). How do the ANC or that sports minister view him in relation to the quota, does he count as part of it because he is black, or is he taking someone's space in the team, due to qualifying on citizenship and not being SA born?

by **Biltong** Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:56 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:It happens to England plenty as well. Just professionals looking to progress their career. They've not traitors to their country, team or anyone though. That's all, just too strong a word.

OK I got it. turncoats then.

by marty2086 Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:57 pm

Its more than a sporting problem, its a social and economic issue. Would the Boks be helped by closing of selection to just SA based players? Would it weaken them short term but benefit them long term? Or would it just destroy them?

by No 7&1/2 Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:59 pm

Biltong wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:It happens to England plenty as well. Just professionals looking to progress their career. They've not traitors to their country, team or anyone though. That's all, just too strong a word.

OK I got it. turncoats then.

Mercenaries is another good one! Guys out to have as successful career as possible.

by **Biltong** Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:00 pm

Marshes wrote:
Biltong wrote:
Notch wrote:
Biltong wrote:Good on you for getting the heck outta there?

That's my view.

Because if you are not respected and not valued, why should you stay? If you are written off and rejected by the rugby establishment there then you owe them nothing. You owe your country nothing. When it's a choice between having a rugby career and your career coming to a standstill, good for you for showing the ambition and the initiative to take the choice that is most true to yourself and your ambition.

Don't forget the guy was in his first season of professional rugby, and listened to one coaches opinion.

Perhaps jumping the gun should come to mind?

Bil I think SA are definitely sinned against in terms of players being tempted abroad, Strauss and Quinn Roux spring to mind. With Stander I thought it would be more a case like AJ MacGinty? Not sure how familiar you are with him, but he is Irish born and played schools here, but was never considered at the required level, went to the US and ended up being capped there, before moving back to Ireland to play for Connacht. Fair enough if not, maybe too much is made of the whole "coach said he was too small" angle.

Another questions for me, probably a stupid one, but I knew Beast was Zimbabwean and moved when he was 18 to SA, and there was a problem regarding his eligibility for the boks (same for Mujati at Northampton I believe too?). How do the ANC or that sports minister view him in relation to the quota, does he count as part of it because he is black, or is he taking someone's space in the team, due to qualifying on citizenship and not being SA born?

Stander wasn't overlooked, its like Kevin Pietersen who moved to England saying he never got a chance to represent SA.

At the time he was playing B league cricket in Durban and was not a recognised batsman.

At what point do we decide a player was overlooked?

When he says so?

Patience is a virtue athletes are most certainly aware of, they know they must put in the hard yards to achieve their goals.

Unless of course you are a white youngster in SA, searching for a stick to hit the dog with. Wink

by **Notch** Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:02 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Biltong wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:It happens to England plenty as well. Just professionals looking to progress their career. They've not traitors to their country, team or anyone though. That's all, just too strong a word.

OK I got it. turncoats then.

Mercenaries is another good one! Guys out to have as successful career as possible.

I hate the term mercenaries... I'm starting a new job next week, but I'm certainly not doing it for free. We're all mercenaries.

by marty2086 Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:04 pm

SA could have capped Stander during the 3 years he was waiting to qualify, they chose not to

by No 7&1/2 Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:06 pm

Not all of them. Mauritz Botha no. Nathan Hughes definitely.

by **Biltong** Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:06 pm

marty2086 wrote:SA could have capped Stander during the 3 years he was waiting to qualify, they chose not to

why would they, he stated publically he has committed to Ireland

by marty2086 Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:07 pm

Biltong wrote:
marty2086 wrote:SA could have capped Stander during the 3 years he was waiting to qualify, they chose not to
why would they, he stated publically he has committed to Ireland

Because saying something to the media doesn't make it a truth, if the Springboks came calling I wonder how committed he would have been

by SecretFly Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:08 pm

Notch wrote:

I'm starting a new job next week, but I'm certainly not doing it for free. We're all mercenaries.

No, you're just vile. That is sickening. Worst post I've seen here in a long time, Notch. I might even suggest a banning. Wanting to be paid??? Reprehensible.

by Marshes Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:10 pm

Biltong wrote:
Marshes wrote:
Biltong wrote:
Notch wrote:
Biltong wrote:Good on you for getting the heck outta there?

That's my view.

Because if you are not respected and not valued, why should you stay? If you are written off and rejected by the rugby establishment there then you owe them nothing. You owe your country nothing. When it's a choice between having a rugby career and your career coming to a standstill, good for you for showing the ambition and the initiative to take the choice that is most true to yourself and your ambition.

Don't forget the guy was in his first season of professional rugby, and listened to one coaches opinion.

Perhaps jumping the gun should come to mind?

Bil I think SA are definitely sinned against in terms of players being tempted abroad, Strauss and Quinn Roux spring to mind. With Stander I thought it would be more a case like AJ MacGinty? Not sure how familiar you are with him, but he is Irish born and played schools here, but was never considered at the required level, went to the US and ended up being capped there, before moving back to Ireland to play for Connacht. Fair enough if not, maybe too much is made of the whole "coach said he was too small" angle.

Another questions for me, probably a stupid one, but I knew Beast was Zimbabwean and moved when he was 18 to SA, and there was a problem regarding his eligibility for the boks (same for Mujati at Northampton I believe too?). How do the ANC or that sports minister view him in relation to the quota, does he count as part of it because he is black, or is he taking someone's space in the team, due to qualifying on citizenship and not being SA born?

Stander wasn't overlooked, its like Kevin Pietersen who moved to England saying he never got a chance to represent SA.

At the time he was playing B league cricket in Durban and was not a recognised batsman.

At what point do we decide a player was overlooked?

When he says so?

Patience is a virtue athletes are most certainly aware of, they know they must put in the hard yards to achieve their goals.

Unless of course you are a white youngster in SA, searching for a stick to hit the dog with.

Any ideas on the beast question? Want to know how hamfisted this sports minister's attempts at a race quota are!

Fair enough on Stander, for me seeing Irish players go somewhere else to get their chance at international, I can't really consider them turncoats, but then MacGinty aside none of them have really turned into anywhere near the required level for the Irish team, whereas SA have lost some decent gems. That might change with George McGuigan mind for ireland, but he is English anyway!

by Marshes Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:16 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Notch wrote:

I'm starting a new job next week, but I'm certainly not doing it for free. We're all mercenaries.

No, you're just vile. That is sickening. Worst post I've seen here in a long time, Notch. I might even suggest a banning. Wanting to be paid??? Reprehensible.

Notch has always been a hired gun Fly, was never sure of his allegiance after he came out against Deccie. Next time anyone sees him for a match keep an eye out to see if he knows the words to Ireland's Call and is tearing up.

by **Biltong** Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:16 pm

Marshes wrote:
Biltong wrote:
Marshes wrote:
Biltong wrote:
Notch wrote:
Biltong wrote:Good on you for getting the heck outta there?

That's my view.

Because if you are not respected and not valued, why should you stay? If you are written off and rejected by the rugby establishment there then you owe them nothing. You owe your country nothing. When it's a choice between having a rugby career and your career coming to a standstill, good for you for showing the ambition and the initiative to take the choice that is most true to yourself and your ambition.

Don't forget the guy was in his first season of professional rugby, and listened to one coaches opinion.

Perhaps jumping the gun should come to mind?

Bil I think SA are definitely sinned against in terms of players being tempted abroad, Strauss and Quinn Roux spring to mind. With Stander I thought it would be more a case like AJ MacGinty? Not sure how familiar you are with him, but he is Irish born and played schools here, but was never considered at the required level, went to the US and ended up being capped there, before moving back to Ireland to play for Connacht. Fair enough if not, maybe too much is made of the whole "coach said he was too small" angle.

Another questions for me, probably a stupid one, but I knew Beast was Zimbabwean and moved when he was 18 to SA, and there was a problem regarding his eligibility for the boks (same for Mujati at Northampton I believe too?). How do the ANC or that sports minister view him in relation to the quota, does he count as part of it because he is black, or is he taking someone's space in the team, due to qualifying on citizenship and not being SA born?

Stander wasn't overlooked, its like Kevin Pietersen who moved to England saying he never got a chance to represent SA.

At the time he was playing B league cricket in Durban and was not a recognised batsman.

At what point do we decide a player was overlooked?

When he says so?

Patience is a virtue athletes are most certainly aware of, they know they must put in the hard yards to achieve their goals.

Unless of course you are a white youngster in SA, searching for a stick to hit the dog with.

Any ideas on the beast question? Want to know how hamfisted this sports minister's attempts at a race quota are!

Fair enough on Stander, for me seeing Irish players go somewhere else to get their chance at international, I can't really consider them turncoats, but then MacGinty aside none of them have really turned into anywhere near the required level for the Irish team, whereas SA have lost some decent gems. That might change with George McGuigan mind for ireland, but he is English anyway!

Sorry, overlooked the beast part.

I was initially very surprised when the ANC did not want Beast to represent SA. I couldn't understand why because in all their actions they have welcomed Zimbabweans into SA with or without legal documents.

I assume the situation with him was because if we accept him as part of the transformation quota it makes it easier for SARU to achieve their quota.

And was just not going to fly. Anyway, that is my theory. I don't really know why they were so against him playing.

Politicians and their motives are mostly foreign to me.

by **rodders** Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:29 pm

eirebilly wrote:
rodders wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
rodders wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
If I was ever any good at anything that would enable me to represent Holland, I still would not do it as I am Irish. I just don't get how people can do that myself.

So you are telling me that if you were a professional sportsman, and that was your livelyhood, you would refuse to represent Holland, even if it meant earning comfortable living doing something you love, if Ireland weren't interested in your services? You would accept a lower income, or even change career to something you enjoyed less?

In truth it is no different to anyone migrating to another country, for work and lifestyle. The reality is when you get paid to do something it is your profession and people need to do what they need to do to provide for them and their family.

Actually I would. Easy to say since I am not in that position but I am fierce loyal to Ireland.

But yet you migrated to ply your trade and skills elsewhere, which I'm not judging, but I don't see how this is different to a pro rugby player doing the same?

No I migrated because my wife at the time was Dutch. Stayed because I liked the life style here. Still have a house in Ireland though (and now have to go to Southport in England sigh) but still very much a proud Irishman. Pretty much a carbon copy of Gibson's life only that langer lives in Amsterdam

So if Standers wife was Irish and he liked the lifestyle you'd be good with it? angel

by Marshes Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:34 pm

rodders wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
rodders wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
rodders wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
If I was ever any good at anything that would enable me to represent Holland, I still would not do it as I am Irish. I just don't get how people can do that myself.

So you are telling me that if you were a professional sportsman, and that was your livelyhood, you would refuse to represent Holland, even if it meant earning comfortable living doing something you love, if Ireland weren't interested in your services? You would accept a lower income, or even change career to something you enjoyed less?

In truth it is no different to anyone migrating to another country, for work and lifestyle. The reality is when you get paid to do something it is your profession and people need to do what they need to do to provide for them and their family.

Actually I would. Easy to say since I am not in that position but I am fierce loyal to Ireland.

But yet you migrated to ply your trade and skills elsewhere, which I'm not judging, but I don't see how this is different to a pro rugby player doing the same?

No I migrated because my wife at the time was Dutch. Stayed because I liked the life style here. Still have a house in Ireland though (and now have to go to Southport in England sigh) but still very much a proud Irishman. Pretty much a carbon copy of Gibson's life only that langer lives in Amsterdam

So if Standers wife was Irish and he liked the lifestyle you'd be good with it?

Well being from SA she had surely never been to a place the likes of Limerick before. The art! The cuisine! The music! The fashion!

by **Notch** Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:34 pm

Marshes wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Notch wrote:

I'm starting a new job next week, but I'm certainly not doing it for free. We're all mercenaries.

No, you're just vile. That is sickening. Worst post I've seen here in a long time, Notch. I might even suggest a banning. Wanting to be paid??? Reprehensible.

Notch has always been a hired gun Fly, was never sure of his allegiance after he came out against Deccie. Next time anyone sees him for a match keep an eye out to see if he knows the words to Ireland's Call and is tearing up.

Tá mé ag foghlaim Gaelige Marshes. Nílim in ann canadh Amhrán na bhFiann ach is féidir liom a fhoghlaim na focail! Más féidir CJ Stander dhéanamh, is féidir liom é a dhéanamh.

thumbsup

by Marshes Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:41 pm

Notch wrote:
Marshes wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Notch wrote:

I'm starting a new job next week, but I'm certainly not doing it for free. We're all mercenaries.

No, you're just vile. That is sickening. Worst post I've seen here in a long time, Notch. I might even suggest a banning. Wanting to be paid??? Reprehensible.

Notch has always been a hired gun Fly, was never sure of his allegiance after he came out against Deccie. Next time anyone sees him for a match keep an eye out to see if he knows the words to Ireland's Call and is tearing up.

Tá mé ag foghlaim Gaelige Marshes. Nílim in ann canadh Amhrán na bhFiann ach is féidir liom a fhoghlaim na focail! Más féidir CJ Stander dhéanamh, is féidir liom é a dhéanamh.

I understood most of that!! Just like watching Rugby Beo on TG4, Notch, especially loved your pronunciation, pure Whest Connemara Yahoo

Was thinking of doing an auld course in London actually to brush up on what little Gaeilge I had. Crying shame I could learn it for 15 odd years in school and not carry a conversation in it.

by Marshes Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:50 pm

By the way, very interesting article Kinsella-style looking at Ireland from SA perspective: http://thebreakdown.co.za/2016/06/09/snapshot-look-ireland/

Examines our performance against England in the 6N. Especially interested in this graph, probably nothing we didn't think about Ireland, but well represented here (love a good graph): South Africa v Ireland, 11 June - Page 8 Attacking-Targets-By-Phase

South Africa v Ireland, 11 June - Page 8 Attacking-Targets-By-Phase

by **Notch** Fri Jun 10, 2016 3:15 pm

Marshes wrote:Was thinking of doing an auld course in London actually to brush up on what little Gaeilge I had. Crying shame I could learn it for 15 odd years in school and not carry a conversation in it.

Oh I'm a long way off being able to have anything but the most basic conversation- it's harder to learn speaking/listening because all the resources are Munster Irish or Connacht Irish. Not much support out there for good auld fashioned Donegal/Ulster Irish.

Is as Uladh mé, labhairt liom an teanga Uladh!

by Guest Fri Jun 10, 2016 3:46 pm

Notch wrote:
Marshes wrote:Was thinking of doing an auld course in London actually to brush up on what little Gaeilge I had. Crying shame I could learn it for 15 odd years in school and not carry a conversation in it.

Oh I'm a long way off being able to have anything but the most basic conversation- it's harder to learn speaking/listening because all the resources are Munster Irish or Connacht Irish. Not much support out there for good auld fashioned Donegal/Ulster Irish.

Is as Uladh mé, labhairt liom an teanga Uladh!

Misean Oirthear Bhéal Feirste múineann sé ar gach leibhéal, ach nach bhfuil cinnte má tá sé Gaeilge Uladh

by neilthom7 Fri Jun 10, 2016 3:49 pm

Hi hi hi Notch you be speaking like that down the Ravenhill Road on a friday night some of the locals might not take too kindly lol Luckily being from a good old Tir Eoghain family I am here to back you up. You know from a safe distance lol

by Guest Fri Jun 10, 2016 4:14 pm

They are actually teaching it in East Belfast. Another interesting fact; in the early 1900s there was probably as many Irish speakers in the Shankill as there were in the Falls Shocked

by Golden Fri Jun 10, 2016 4:41 pm

Biltong wrote:
Notch wrote:
Biltong wrote:
Notch wrote:
Biltong wrote:Good on you for getting the heck outta there?

That's my view.

Because if you are not respected and not valued, why should you stay? If you are written off and rejected by the rugby establishment there then you owe them nothing. You owe your country nothing. When it's a choice between having a rugby career and your career coming to a standstill, good for you for showing the ambition and the initiative to take the choice that is most true to yourself and your ambition.

Don't forget the guy was in his first season of professional rugby, and listened to one coaches opinion.

Perhaps jumping the gun should come to mind?

Maybe, maybe not- we don't know. Thats the point. We are in no position to judge him.

But he left. That is the one fact we know, and he didn't leave for the pizza.

Do you not have pizza there Bilts? Limerick is famous for it.

I reckon Ireland by 3-7 points in the first test.

by **Notch** Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:21 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Notch wrote:
Marshes wrote:Was thinking of doing an auld course in London actually to brush up on what little Gaeilge I had. Crying shame I could learn it for 15 odd years in school and not carry a conversation in it.

Oh I'm a long way off being able to have anything but the most basic conversation- it's harder to learn speaking/listening because all the resources are Munster Irish or Connacht Irish. Not much support out there for good auld fashioned Donegal/Ulster Irish.

Is as Uladh mé, labhairt liom an teanga Uladh!

Misean Oirthear Bhéal Feirste múineann sé ar gach leibhéal, ach nach bhfuil cinnte má tá sé Gaeilge Uladh

Go raibh maith agat Munchkin, tá mé ag foghlaim san Ollscoil na Banríona ach tá mé áit a chuardach rud a fhoghlaim sa samhradh.

Leithscéal as aon earráidí censored

by **Biltong** Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:21 pm

Golden wrote:
Biltong wrote:
Notch wrote:
Biltong wrote:
Notch wrote:
Biltong wrote:Good on you for getting the heck outta there?

That's my view.

Because if you are not respected and not valued, why should you stay? If you are written off and rejected by the rugby establishment there then you owe them nothing. You owe your country nothing. When it's a choice between having a rugby career and your career coming to a standstill, good for you for showing the ambition and the initiative to take the choice that is most true to yourself and your ambition.

Don't forget the guy was in his first season of professional rugby, and listened to one coaches opinion.

Perhaps jumping the gun should come to mind?

Maybe, maybe not- we don't know. Thats the point. We are in no position to judge him.

But he left. That is the one fact we know, and he didn't leave for the pizza.

Do you not have pizza there Bilts? Limerick is famous for it.

I reckon Ireland by 3-7 points in the first test.

Nope only Boerwors rolls

by Guest Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:49 pm

Notch wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Notch wrote:
Marshes wrote:Was thinking of doing an auld course in London actually to brush up on what little Gaeilge I had. Crying shame I could learn it for 15 odd years in school and not carry a conversation in it.

Oh I'm a long way off being able to have anything but the most basic conversation- it's harder to learn speaking/listening because all the resources are Munster Irish or Connacht Irish. Not much support out there for good auld fashioned Donegal/Ulster Irish.

Is as Uladh mé, labhairt liom an teanga Uladh!

Misean Oirthear Bhéal Feirste múineann sé ar gach leibhéal, ach nach bhfuil cinnte má tá sé Gaeilge Uladh

Go raibh maith agat Munchkin, tá mé ag foghlaim san Ollscoil na Banríona ach tá mé áit a chuardach rud a fhoghlaim sa samhradh.

Leithscéal as aon earráidí

Tá a fhios agam cúpla focal i nGaeilge, den chuid is mó d'fhoghlaim as a bhfuil trasna i stair na hÉireann, ach ag brath ar Google a aistriú dom Erm

Tá mé cinnte go mbeidh na cainteoirí líofa Gaeilge a cheartú anseo an earráidí Smile

Níl a fhios agam ar aon scoil samhraidh, ach bheadh a cheapann ní mór go mbeadh áit éigin go múineann sé.

by SecretFly Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:00 pm

Munch, look I know Phil can get a bit much at times with the old slagging and put-downs. But there is no call for that abuse. Retract that at once. He isn't remotely that bad.

by Marshes Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:13 pm

Is breá liom a fheiceáil ar an cúpla focail anseo. Tá sé go hiontach!! Níl a fhios agam cad Gaeilge labhraíonn siad i Bloemfontein..Biltong?

Lads we keep this up and we'll all end up some watchlist.

by Pot Hale Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:14 pm

This is like being on Rugby 365 where it seems they all break out into swearing at each other good-naturedly (or more likely the opposition less than good-naturedly) in Afrikaans then revert back to English as if nothing happened.

by **Notch** Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:33 pm

Marshes wrote:Lads we keep this up and we'll all end up some watchlist.

Pot Hale wrote:This is like being on Rugby 365 where it seems they all break out into swearing at each other good-naturedly (or more likely the opposition less than good-naturedly) in Afrikaans then revert back to English as if nothing happened.

According to my dubious knowledge, and a rich helping hand from google translate, teanglann.ie and focloir.ie... Here's some key phrases to memorise to bluff your way through the game tomorrow

Is Jared Payne ionad lasmuigh go hiontach. Tá sé amú ag 15! -Jared Payne is a wonderful outside centre. He is wasted at 15!

Cosaint, cosaint, cosaint! - Defence, defence, defence!

Cá bhfuil na fir Connacht? - Where are the Connacht men?

Tá sé claonta i dtreo Laighean- It's biased towards Leinster

Ná ciceáil arís! - Don't kick it again!

Schmidt amach! - Schmidt out!

by Pot Hale Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:34 am

And for after the match

Boks feicin! - Feckin Boks!

by Golden Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:34 am

Notch wrote:

Tá sé claonta i dtreo Uladh

Schmidt amach! - Schmidt out!

Fixed that for you Notch

by **Notch** Sat Jun 11, 2016 10:49 am

Golden wrote:
Notch wrote:

Tá sé claonta i dtreo Uladh

Schmidt amach! - Schmidt out!

Fixed that for you Notch

PotHale wrote:And for after the matchBoks feicin! - Feckin Boks!

by Rory_Gallagher Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:37 am

Very excited for this game. The team looks great overall (given the injuries) and if our pack can at least gain parity then I think we have a really good shot at winning. That is a big if, though.

by eirebilly Sat Jun 11, 2016 1:43 pm

rodders wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
rodders wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
rodders wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
If I was ever any good at anything that would enable me to represent Holland, I still would not do it as I am Irish. I just don't get how people can do that myself.

So you are telling me that if you were a professional sportsman, and that was your livelyhood, you would refuse to represent Holland, even if it meant earning comfortable living doing something you love, if Ireland weren't interested in your services? You would accept a lower income, or even change career to something you enjoyed less?

In truth it is no different to anyone migrating to another country, for work and lifestyle. The reality is when you get paid to do something it is your profession and people need to do what they need to do to provide for them and their family.

Actually I would. Easy to say since I am not in that position but I am fierce loyal to Ireland.

But yet you migrated to ply your trade and skills elsewhere, which I'm not judging, but I don't see how this is different to a pro rugby player doing the same?

No I migrated because my wife at the time was Dutch. Stayed because I liked the life style here. Still have a house in Ireland though (and now have to go to Southport in England sigh) but still very much a proud Irishman. Pretty much a carbon copy of Gibson's life only that langer lives in Amsterdam

So if Standers wife was Irish and he liked the lifestyle you'd be good with it?

Not sure what that has to do with anything. He could still like Ireland, play for Munster but still be a proud South African and want to represent his country?

by eirebilly Sat Jun 11, 2016 1:46 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Very excited for this game. The team looks great overall (given the injuries) and if our pack can at least gain parity then I think we have a really good shot at winning. That is a big if, though.

That's pretty much how I see it as well. So so important to get some parity in the pack and let the backs do their stuff. Stretch them and they ay suffer.

by **Biltong** Sat Jun 11, 2016 1:52 pm

I think it will be a close game, I really have no idea how the Boks will go or what style they will play, my expectationsaren't very high.

by Sin é Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:08 pm

eirebilly wrote:
rodders wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
rodders wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
rodders wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
If I was ever any good at anything that would enable me to represent Holland, I still would not do it as I am Irish. I just don't get how people can do that myself.

So you are telling me that if you were a professional sportsman, and that was your livelyhood, you would refuse to represent Holland, even if it meant earning comfortable living doing something you love, if Ireland weren't interested in your services? You would accept a lower income, or even change career to something you enjoyed less?

In truth it is no different to anyone migrating to another country, for work and lifestyle. The reality is when you get paid to do something it is your profession and people need to do what they need to do to provide for them and their family.

Actually I would. Easy to say since I am not in that position but I am fierce loyal to Ireland.

But yet you migrated to ply your trade and skills elsewhere, which I'm not judging, but I don't see how this is different to a pro rugby player doing the same?

No I migrated because my wife at the time was Dutch. Stayed because I liked the life style here. Still have a house in Ireland though (and now have to go to Southport in England sigh) but still very much a proud Irishman. Pretty much a carbon copy of Gibson's life only that langer lives in Amsterdam

So if Standers wife was Irish and he liked the lifestyle you'd be good with it?

Not sure what that has to do with anything. He could still like Ireland, play for Munster but still be a proud South African and want to represent his country?

Billy, say if you had to take out Dutch citizenship to stay in the Netherlands, would you do it a) if you keep dual citizenship and b) give up your Irish citizenship to remain in The Netherlands?

by eirebilly Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:14 pm

Sin, I have got Dutch citizenship but I have kept my Irish citizenship. You do not have to give up the Irish citizenship to gain Dutch citizenship. I just travel on a Dutch passport now but can get an Irish one if I wanted to.

Doesn't mean I do not consider myself Irish, in fact as I said before, I have become more patriotic since living in Holland.

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