Pro12 introduces neutral TMOs

by Dai Llewod Wed Aug 24, 2016 4:39 am

First topic message reminder :

A good move by PRO12, one which is to be applauded.

Martin Anayi:

“Ultimately, if you are listening to a match on television and you hear an Irish TMO speaking at a match in Ireland, as happened with Connacht versus the Ospreys, you are going to to think they are biased, even though we know they are not.”

WalesOnline.

by marty2086 Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:04 am

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote: the problem with some of those of NuGwlad

What's a "NuGwlad" ?

Why attribute someone elses quote to me?

by LordDowlais Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:06 am

Munchkin wrote:It's the new site set up because Gwlad is closing down soon. They have all moved over there now, and it's free.

Good, perhaps they will Keep PhilBB there with them and off this forum.

by Dai Llewod Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:07 am

Munchkin wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
LordDowlais wrote: If Martin Anayi eventually achieves all his goals, then we will see a centrally contracted team of refs, employed by the Pro12, this in my opinion will be massive.

They'll all still have to belong and be employed by a Union. Which still renders it completely uneven as long as there are Union owned and run teams in the league. Unless of course the referees are not from Wal, Ire, Sco or Italy.

Your problem, and the problem with some of those of NuGwlad, is that you're against Unions, and no matter how much change is brought about you will always oppose Union owned teams.

That's it in a nutshell yes, at least as far as NH rugby goes.

by marty2086 Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:09 am

Dai Llewod wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
LordDowlais wrote: If Martin Anayi eventually achieves all his goals, then we will see a centrally contracted team of refs, employed by the Pro12, this in my opinion will be massive.

They'll all still have to belong and be employed by a Union. Which still renders it completely uneven as long as there are Union owned and run teams in the league. Unless of course the referees are not from Wal, Ire, Sco or Italy.

Your problem, and the problem with some of those of NuGwlad, is that you're against Unions, and no matter how much change is brought about you will always oppose Union owned teams.

That's it in a nutshell yes, at least as far as NH rugby goes.

Its ok for the SH to do it but not the NH? picard

by munkian Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:09 am

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote: the problem with some of those of NuGwlad

What's a "NuGwlad" ?

I believe its a whale's vagina.

by Guest Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:09 am

Dai Llewod wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
LordDowlais wrote: If Martin Anayi eventually achieves all his goals, then we will see a centrally contracted team of refs, employed by the Pro12, this in my opinion will be massive.

They'll all still have to belong and be employed by a Union. Which still renders it completely uneven as long as there are Union owned and run teams in the league. Unless of course the referees are not from Wal, Ire, Sco or Italy.

Your problem, and the problem with some of those of NuGwlad, is that you're against Unions, and no matter how much change is brought about you will always oppose Union owned teams.

That's it in a nutshell yes, at least as far as NH rugby goes.

And so, even when positive steps are made to improve the league they are opposed by the anti-Union brigade. The logic is bizarre.

by Guest Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:10 am

munkian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote: the problem with some of those of NuGwlad

What's a "NuGwlad" ?

I believe its a whale's vagina.

Close, munkian, very close Very Happy

by Dai Llewod Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:16 am

marty2086 wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
LordDowlais wrote: If Martin Anayi eventually achieves all his goals, then we will see a centrally contracted team of refs, employed by the Pro12, this in my opinion will be massive.

They'll all still have to belong and be employed by a Union. Which still renders it completely uneven as long as there are Union owned and run teams in the league. Unless of course the referees are not from Wal, Ire, Sco or Italy.

Your problem, and the problem with some of those of NuGwlad, is that you're against Unions, and no matter how much change is brought about you will always oppose Union owned teams.

That's it in a nutshell yes, at least as far as NH rugby goes.

Its ok for the SH to do it but not the NH?

I don't believe I said that. My club and country is in the Northern Hemisphere, so I am more concerned about rugby models up here as they have large implications them. I feel unable to comment much on competitions like Super Rugby as I don't watch enough of it.

by Dai Llewod Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:17 am

Munchkin wrote:

And so, even when positive steps are made to improve the league they are opposed by the anti-Union brigade. The logic is bizarre.

What sort of positive steps do you mean here?

by marty2086 Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:18 am

Dai Llewod wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
LordDowlais wrote: If Martin Anayi eventually achieves all his goals, then we will see a centrally contracted team of refs, employed by the Pro12, this in my opinion will be massive.

They'll all still have to belong and be employed by a Union. Which still renders it completely uneven as long as there are Union owned and run teams in the league. Unless of course the referees are not from Wal, Ire, Sco or Italy.

Your problem, and the problem with some of those of NuGwlad, is that you're against Unions, and no matter how much change is brought about you will always oppose Union owned teams.

That's it in a nutshell yes, at least as far as NH rugby goes.

Its ok for the SH to do it but not the NH?

I don't believe I said that. My club and country is in the Northern Hemisphere, so I am more concerned about rugby models up here as they have large implications them. I feel unable to comment much on competitions like Super Rugby as I don't watch enough of it.

So why are unions the problem and not private owners?

by Guest Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:19 am

Dai Llewod wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

And so, even when positive steps are made to improve the league they are opposed by the anti-Union brigade. The logic is bizarre.

What sort of positive steps do you mean here?

Any. I'm sure you're on NuGwlad already, so take a look at their reaction to proposed changes.

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:21 am

munkian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote: the problem with some of those of NuGwlad

What's a "NuGwlad" ?

I believe its a whale's vagina.

A whale's vagina is called a whimsy.

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:23 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:It's the new site set up because Gwlad is closing down soon. They have all moved over there now, and it's free.

Good, perhaps they will Keep PhilBB there with them and off this forum.

by Guest Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:23 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
munkian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote: the problem with some of those of NuGwlad

What's a "NuGwlad" ?

I believe its a whale's vagina.

A whale's vagina is called a whimsy.

That's me done with being whimsical Shocked

by Dai Llewod Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:24 am

marty2086 wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
LordDowlais wrote: If Martin Anayi eventually achieves all his goals, then we will see a centrally contracted team of refs, employed by the Pro12, this in my opinion will be massive.

They'll all still have to belong and be employed by a Union. Which still renders it completely uneven as long as there are Union owned and run teams in the league. Unless of course the referees are not from Wal, Ire, Sco or Italy.

Your problem, and the problem with some of those of NuGwlad, is that you're against Unions, and no matter how much change is brought about you will always oppose Union owned teams.

That's it in a nutshell yes, at least as far as NH rugby goes.

Its ok for the SH to do it but not the NH?

I don't believe I said that. My club and country is in the Northern Hemisphere, so I am more concerned about rugby models up here as they have large implications them. I feel unable to comment much on competitions like Super Rugby as I don't watch enough of it.

So why are unions the problem and not private owners?

Jesus, How long have you got?

Start with the Celtic League. Look how much strain that puts on the Celtic nations and their domestic clubs due to lack of income and reluctance to change compared to the Aviva and Top14.

by Guest Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:25 am

Dai Llewod wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
LordDowlais wrote: If Martin Anayi eventually achieves all his goals, then we will see a centrally contracted team of refs, employed by the Pro12, this in my opinion will be massive.

They'll all still have to belong and be employed by a Union. Which still renders it completely uneven as long as there are Union owned and run teams in the league. Unless of course the referees are not from Wal, Ire, Sco or Italy.

Your problem, and the problem with some of those of NuGwlad, is that you're against Unions, and no matter how much change is brought about you will always oppose Union owned teams.

That's it in a nutshell yes, at least as far as NH rugby goes.

Its ok for the SH to do it but not the NH?

I don't believe I said that. My club and country is in the Northern Hemisphere, so I am more concerned about rugby models up here as they have large implications them. I feel unable to comment much on competitions like Super Rugby as I don't watch enough of it.

So why are unions the problem and not private owners?

Jesus, How long have you got?

Start with the Celtic League. Look how much strain that puts on the Celtic nations and their domestic clubs due to lack of income and reluctance to change compared to the Aviva and Top14.

by Dai Llewod Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:27 am

Munchkin wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

And so, even when positive steps are made to improve the league they are opposed by the anti-Union brigade. The logic is bizarre.

What sort of positive steps do you mean here?

Any. I'm sure you're on NuGwlad already, so take a look at their reaction to proposed changes.

You've got a massive inferiority complex or something. I'm really perplexed as to how you're so annoyed by a Welsh rugby forum. It's quite quaint in a way.

by marty2086 Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:28 am

Dai Llewod wrote:
Jesus, How long have you got?

Start with the Celtic League. Look how much strain that puts on the Celtic nations and their domestic clubs due to lack of income and reluctance to change compared to the Aviva and Top14.

Reluctance to change? Here are changes being implemented and you are moaning about it all

It was the private owners of the AP and Top14 who drove the change from the HC to ERCC and made a pigs ear of it. That the kind of change you want?

How about the owners of the regions calling for changes, getting them then asking for more and never willing to give more than they receive.

by Dai Llewod Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:29 am

Munchkin wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
LordDowlais wrote: If Martin Anayi eventually achieves all his goals, then we will see a centrally contracted team of refs, employed by the Pro12, this in my opinion will be massive.

They'll all still have to belong and be employed by a Union. Which still renders it completely uneven as long as there are Union owned and run teams in the league. Unless of course the referees are not from Wal, Ire, Sco or Italy.

Your problem, and the problem with some of those of NuGwlad, is that you're against Unions, and no matter how much change is brought about you will always oppose Union owned teams.

That's it in a nutshell yes, at least as far as NH rugby goes.

Its ok for the SH to do it but not the NH?

I don't believe I said that. My club and country is in the Northern Hemisphere, so I am more concerned about rugby models up here as they have large implications them. I feel unable to comment much on competitions like Super Rugby as I don't watch enough of it.

So why are unions the problem and not private owners?

Jesus, How long have you got?

Start with the Celtic League. Look how much strain that puts on the Celtic nations and their domestic clubs due to lack of income and reluctance to change compared to the Aviva and Top14.

That's the usual response. Laughing all the way to the exit at the group stages of the Champions Cup and the lack of World Cup semi final representation. It's ever so funny isn't it?

by Guest Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:30 am

Dai Llewod wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

And so, even when positive steps are made to improve the league they are opposed by the anti-Union brigade. The logic is bizarre.

What sort of positive steps do you mean here?

Any. I'm sure you're on NuGwlad already, so take a look at their reaction to proposed changes.

You've got a massive inferiority complex or something. I'm really perplexed as to how you're so annoyed by a Welsh rugby forum. It's quite quaint in a way.

I'm not annoyed by it. I enjoy the comedy provided by a few nut jobs, and I enjoy the views of most when just chatting about their Regions.

Indeed, the nutjobs are quite quaint...

by Dai Llewod Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:30 am

marty2086 wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
Jesus, How long have you got?

Start with the Celtic League. Look how much strain that puts on the Celtic nations and their domestic clubs due to lack of income and reluctance to change compared to the Aviva and Top14.

Reluctance to change? Here are changes being implemented and you are moaning about it all

It was the private owners of the AP and Top14 who drove the change from the HC to ERCC and made a pigs ear of it. That the kind of change you want?

How about the owners of the regions calling for changes, getting them then asking for more and never willing to give more than they receive.

Your last point is extremely valid. I have personally been asking what they are doing behind the scenes at PRW and am a little disappointed that we don't hear more, but then appreciate the confidentiality of it all. The rest of your post isn't really worth responding to.

by Dai Llewod Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:32 am

Munchkin wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

And so, even when positive steps are made to improve the league they are opposed by the anti-Union brigade. The logic is bizarre.

What sort of positive steps do you mean here?

Any. I'm sure you're on NuGwlad already, so take a look at their reaction to proposed changes.

You've got a massive inferiority complex or something. I'm really perplexed as to how you're so annoyed by a Welsh rugby forum. It's quite quaint in a way.

I'm not annoyed by it. I enjoy the comedy provided by a few nut jobs, and I enjoy the views of most when just chatting about their Regions.

Indeed, the nutjobs are quite quaint...

I think it's probably because you genuinely don't understand how the continued existence of the Pro12 is wrecking Celtic rugby.

by marty2086 Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:35 am

Dai Llewod wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
Jesus, How long have you got?

Start with the Celtic League. Look how much strain that puts on the Celtic nations and their domestic clubs due to lack of income and reluctance to change compared to the Aviva and Top14.

Reluctance to change? Here are changes being implemented and you are moaning about it all

It was the private owners of the AP and Top14 who drove the change from the HC to ERCC and made a pigs ear of it. That the kind of change you want?

How about the owners of the regions calling for changes, getting them then asking for more and never willing to give more than they receive.

Your last point is extremely valid. I have personally been asking what they are doing behind the scenes at PRW and am a little disappointed that we don't hear more, but then appreciate the confidentiality of it all. The rest of your post isn't really worth responding to.

Really? What makes it so unworthy then?

Hard to argue against a valid point?

by Guest Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:35 am

Dai Llewod wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
LordDowlais wrote: If Martin Anayi eventually achieves all his goals, then we will see a centrally contracted team of refs, employed by the Pro12, this in my opinion will be massive.

They'll all still have to belong and be employed by a Union. Which still renders it completely uneven as long as there are Union owned and run teams in the league. Unless of course the referees are not from Wal, Ire, Sco or Italy.

Your problem, and the problem with some of those of NuGwlad, is that you're against Unions, and no matter how much change is brought about you will always oppose Union owned teams.

That's it in a nutshell yes, at least as far as NH rugby goes.

Its ok for the SH to do it but not the NH?

I don't believe I said that. My club and country is in the Northern Hemisphere, so I am more concerned about rugby models up here as they have large implications them. I feel unable to comment much on competitions like Super Rugby as I don't watch enough of it.

So why are unions the problem and not private owners?

Jesus, How long have you got?

Start with the Celtic League. Look how much strain that puts on the Celtic nations and their domestic clubs due to lack of income and reluctance to change compared to the Aviva and Top14.

That's the usual response. Laughing all the way to the exit at the group stages of the Champions Cup and the lack of World Cup semi final representation. It's ever so funny isn't it?

Your bitterness is telling Very Happy

I'm sure the lunatic ravings is much more productive.

by Guest Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:37 am

Dai Llewod wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

And so, even when positive steps are made to improve the league they are opposed by the anti-Union brigade. The logic is bizarre.

What sort of positive steps do you mean here?

Any. I'm sure you're on NuGwlad already, so take a look at their reaction to proposed changes.

You've got a massive inferiority complex or something. I'm really perplexed as to how you're so annoyed by a Welsh rugby forum. It's quite quaint in a way.

I'm not annoyed by it. I enjoy the comedy provided by a few nut jobs, and I enjoy the views of most when just chatting about their Regions.

Indeed, the nutjobs are quite quaint...

I think it's probably because you genuinely don't understand how the continued existence of the Pro12 is wrecking Celtic rugby.

Like i said; bizarre logic from you and your ilk.

by marty2086 Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:38 am

Dai Llewod wrote:
I think it's probably because you genuinely don't understand how the continued existence of the Pro12 is wrecking Celtic rugby.

Or because you have provided no basis for it all?

by Dai Llewod Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:39 am

Munchkin wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

And so, even when positive steps are made to improve the league they are opposed by the anti-Union brigade. The logic is bizarre.

What sort of positive steps do you mean here?

Any. I'm sure you're on NuGwlad already, so take a look at their reaction to proposed changes.

You've got a massive inferiority complex or something. I'm really perplexed as to how you're so annoyed by a Welsh rugby forum. It's quite quaint in a way.

I'm not annoyed by it. I enjoy the comedy provided by a few nut jobs, and I enjoy the views of most when just chatting about their Regions.

Indeed, the nutjobs are quite quaint...

I think it's probably because you genuinely don't understand how the continued existence of the Pro12 is wrecking Celtic rugby.

Like i said; bizarre logic from you and your ilk.

Like I said, you just don't understand, despite the continued rugby demise of Wales, Scotland and Ireland staring you in the face.

by Guest Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:43 am

Dai Llewod wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

And so, even when positive steps are made to improve the league they are opposed by the anti-Union brigade. The logic is bizarre.

What sort of positive steps do you mean here?

Any. I'm sure you're on NuGwlad already, so take a look at their reaction to proposed changes.

You've got a massive inferiority complex or something. I'm really perplexed as to how you're so annoyed by a Welsh rugby forum. It's quite quaint in a way.

I'm not annoyed by it. I enjoy the comedy provided by a few nut jobs, and I enjoy the views of most when just chatting about their Regions.

Indeed, the nutjobs are quite quaint...

I think it's probably because you genuinely don't understand how the continued existence of the Pro12 is wrecking Celtic rugby.

Like i said; bizarre logic from you and your ilk.

Like I said, you just don't understand, despite the continued rugby demise of Wales, Scotland and Ireland staring you in the face.

The problem is competing with the big money of AP/T14. Dragging the PRO12 down isn't going to help us compete. In fact, it's counter productive, but that's something the numpties don't understand. Self-defeating bunch of loonies Very Happy

by St John The Enforcer Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:48 am

Dai Llewod wrote:the lack of World Cup semi final representation. It's ever so funny isn't it?

Dai Llewod wrote:

Like I said, you just don't understand, despite the continued rugby demise of Wales, Scotland and Ireland staring you in the face.

So THAT's why England and France did so much better that Wales, Scotland and Ireland in the world cup. I was wond...... Oh, wait.

by marty2086 Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:50 am

St John The Enforcer wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:the lack of World Cup semi final representation. It's ever so funny isn't it?

Dai Llewod wrote:

Like I said, you just don't understand, despite the continued rugby demise of Wales, Scotland and Ireland staring you in the face.

So THAT's why England and France did so much better that Wales, Scotland and Ireland in the world cup. I was wond...... Oh, wait.

Its not like two cash strapped unions who use a union owned team model in a league using the same model competed in the final either...

by Dai Llewod Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:51 am

St John The Enforcer wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:the lack of World Cup semi final representation. It's ever so funny isn't it?

Dai Llewod wrote:

Like I said, you just don't understand, despite the continued rugby demise of Wales, Scotland and Ireland staring you in the face.

So THAT's why England and France did so much better that Wales, Scotland and Ireland in the world cup. I was wond...... Oh, wait.

Coaching. As has been proved since with England, and will be proved with France once they get someone half decent in the job.

by marty2086 Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:53 am

Dai Llewod wrote:
St John The Enforcer wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:the lack of World Cup semi final representation. It's ever so funny isn't it?

Dai Llewod wrote:

Like I said, you just don't understand, despite the continued rugby demise of Wales, Scotland and Ireland staring you in the face.

So THAT's why England and France did so much better that Wales, Scotland and Ireland in the world cup. I was wond...... Oh, wait.

Coaching. As has been proved since with England, and will be proved with France once they get someone half decent in the job.

So coaching is why England failed but unions why the Celtic nations did? Headscratch

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:55 am

So just to clarify: coaching is causing the demise of Welsh, Irish and Scottish rugby now, not the Pro12? Or is it both?

by Dai Llewod Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:56 am

marty2086 wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
St John The Enforcer wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:the lack of World Cup semi final representation. It's ever so funny isn't it?

Dai Llewod wrote:

Like I said, you just don't understand, despite the continued rugby demise of Wales, Scotland and Ireland staring you in the face.

So THAT's why England and France did so much better that Wales, Scotland and Ireland in the world cup. I was wond...... Oh, wait.

Coaching. As has been proved since with England, and will be proved with France once they get someone half decent in the job.

So coaching is why England failed but unions why the Celtic nations did?

Yup. It'll only get worse too, as the money in Eng and France filters through their rugby at all levels and the lack of money in the Celtic nations sees them deteriorate. But it's a bunch of loonies telling you this right? So you won't listen to them.

by marty2086 Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:00 am

Dai Llewod wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
St John The Enforcer wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:the lack of World Cup semi final representation. It's ever so funny isn't it?

Dai Llewod wrote:

Like I said, you just don't understand, despite the continued rugby demise of Wales, Scotland and Ireland staring you in the face.

So THAT's why England and France did so much better that Wales, Scotland and Ireland in the world cup. I was wond...... Oh, wait.

Coaching. As has been proved since with England, and will be proved with France once they get someone half decent in the job.

So coaching is why England failed but unions why the Celtic nations did?

Yup. It'll only get worse too, as the money in Eng and France filters through their rugby at all levels and the lack of money in the Celtic nations sees them deteriorate. But it's a bunch of loonies telling you this right? So you won't listen to them.

Just seems to be the one looney, apparently where money is concerned its just bad coaching that equals a lack of success but where 'there isn't money' its the unions fault

Except your theory just doesn't hold up as you only apply it arbitrarily to suit what you are trying to say

by Dai Llewod Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:05 am

marty2086 wrote:

Just seems to be the one looney, apparently where money is concerned its just bad coaching that equals a lack of success but where 'there isn't money' its the unions fault

Right. Because it's down to the Unions that "there isn't money". Come on, Even the Irish rugby chiefs have acknowledged this in public. But their boss won't do anything about it.

by Guest Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:08 am

Dai Llewod wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
St John The Enforcer wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:the lack of World Cup semi final representation. It's ever so funny isn't it?

Dai Llewod wrote:

Like I said, you just don't understand, despite the continued rugby demise of Wales, Scotland and Ireland staring you in the face.

So THAT's why England and France did so much better that Wales, Scotland and Ireland in the world cup. I was wond...... Oh, wait.

Coaching. As has been proved since with England, and will be proved with France once they get someone half decent in the job.

So coaching is why England failed but unions why the Celtic nations did?

Yup. It'll only get worse too, as the money in Eng and France filters through their rugby at all levels and the lack of money in the Celtic nations sees them deteriorate. But it's a bunch of loonies telling you this right? So you won't listen to them.

What you don't understand is market forces. England and France attract bigger money because they are bigger markets. For PRO12 to compete we need to expand our market. That's why Anayi is exploring European and USA markets. Something that both the Scottish and Irish Unions support. The Unions you denigrate...

The numpties solution is to join with the English. Something the English don't want and will never happen. So rather than support the only viable league that can help ensure the survival of Celtic nations, and Italian, rugby, the numpties want to destroy it, and pursue a fantasy. Brilliant logic that is....

by marty2086 Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:11 am

Dai Llewod wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

Just seems to be the one looney, apparently where money is concerned its just bad coaching that equals a lack of success but where 'there isn't money' its the unions fault

Right. Because it's down to the Unions that "there isn't money". Come on, Even the Irish rugby chiefs have acknowledged this in public. But their boss won't do anything about it.

No they said they will face difficulties going forward

You are using the RWC as a measure of the state of the Pro12 but change the metrics to suit your argument

Ignoring what many deem to be bad coaching from Gatland, injuries and what some consider bad selection choices from Schmidt and Scotland seemingly being screwed against the eventual runners up. These are all irrelevant to you its all down to the unions screwing everyone

by Stone Motif Fri Aug 26, 2016 3:02 am

marty2086 wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote: the vast majority agree there is no bias.

Says who?

Anyone who thinks there is a 'vast' group of people out there who give a toss about the PrO'12 either way
is in no position to go talking about credibility.

of very great extent or quantity; immense.
"a vast plain full of orchards"

synonyms: huge, extensive, expansive, broad, wide, boundless, immeasurable, limitless, infinite, enormous, gigantic, very big, very large, great, giant, massive, colossal, mammoth, immense, tremendous, mighty, stupendous, monumental, epic, prodigious, mountainous, monstrous, titanic, towering, elephantine, king-sized, king-size, gargantuan, Herculean, Brobdingnagian; More

Does 1.2m fans through the turnstiles count as vast then? Not to mention those who watched on tv? The many employees of the club, league, unions, sponsors, production teams etc who rely on the league for jobs? What about the hundreds of players who play in the league? The thousands of young players who are hoping to play in it? Those numbers count as vast?

Seems some just want to be miserable and run things down regardless of reality because they are cantankerous

A bit like when you see the pile of BS MikeyDragon spouts and it looks massive. But then you are confronted by the gargantuan, mammoth, huge, behemoth cesspit of effluent you come out with, and suddenly Ol' Mikey's 'contributions' look like a spec of bird poop on a windshield.

That the best you can come up with?

Well, it is early.

by Stone Motif Fri Aug 26, 2016 4:37 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote: the vast majority agree there is no bias.

Says who?

Anyone who thinks there is a 'vast' group of people out there who give a toss about the PrO'12 either way
is in no position to go talking about credibility.

of very great extent or quantity; immense.
"a vast plain full of orchards"

synonyms: huge, extensive, expansive, broad, wide, boundless, immeasurable, limitless, infinite, enormous, gigantic, very big, very large, great, giant, massive, colossal, mammoth, immense, tremendous, mighty, stupendous, monumental, epic, prodigious, mountainous, monstrous, titanic, towering, elephantine, king-sized, king-size, gargantuan, Herculean, Brobdingnagian; More

Does 1.2m fans through the turnstiles count as vast then? Not to mention those who watched on tv? The many employees of the club, league, unions, sponsors, production teams etc who rely on the league for jobs? What about the hundreds of players who play in the league? The thousands of young players who are hoping to play in it? Those numbers count as vast?

Seems some just want to be miserable and run things down regardless of reality because they are cantankerous

A bit like when you see the pile of BS MikeyDragon spouts and it looks massive. But then you are confronted by the gargantuan, mammoth, huge, behemoth cesspit of effluent you come out with, and suddenly Ol' Mikey's 'contributions' look like a spec of bird poop on a windshield.

That the best you can come up with?

Yeah it is. He's just coming across as a stalkerish weirdo here, I think it's high time you set foot outside of Cross Keys stone.

Righto - this from the bloke who gets aroused by random Welsh villages. Keys today, Bancyfelin yesterday...

by mikey_dragon Fri Aug 26, 2016 5:49 am

Yeah good one Stone Rolling Eyes

. Take a night off, you're boring.

by Dai Llewod Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:41 am

marty2086 wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

Just seems to be the one looney, apparently where money is concerned its just bad coaching that equals a lack of success but where 'there isn't money' its the unions fault

Right. Because it's down to the Unions that "there isn't money". Come on, Even the Irish rugby chiefs have acknowledged this in public. But their boss won't do anything about it.

No they said they will face difficulties going forward

No, they said a British and Irish League is the ultimate goal.

by Irish Londoner Fri Aug 26, 2016 7:38 am

Dai, I hate to break this to you, but there are no current circumstances under which a B & I league is going to happen, however much we would like to see it. Put at it's most simple there is no incentive whatsoever on the table that would make it attractive to the English league.

I personally think that it would be great for all the PRO12 countries to do but the only possible circumstances under which it would happen would be in the event of BT or/and SKY were prepared to shove loads of money at it.

Therefore the question is what does Welsh rugby do, you don't seem to want to be part of the PRO12, you aren't wanted in England under current conditions (and probably never will), I doubt if withdrawing into an internal Welsh league would do the game there any good (not to mention cause a huge sh1tstorm at union level), so what is to be done ?

by Pot Hale Fri Aug 26, 2016 7:57 am

Mark McCafferty as part of a PRL statement issued today:

"When asked about PRO12 possible expansion into the US, McCafferty insisted the Premiership will not expand its teams beyond England, but also reconfirmed plans to stage another league fixture in the US in the coming campaign.

"We are an English league, that's where our strength is. We've certainly no plans to change," he said. "We'll look to grow our profile in the States for sure, and we've made a couple of big breakthroughs on that last season."

by mikey_dragon Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:02 am

Irish Londoner wrote:
Therefore the question is what does Welsh rugby do, you don't seem to want to be part of the PRO12, you aren't wanted in England under current conditions (and probably never will), I doubt if withdrawing into an internal Welsh league would do the game there any good (not to mention cause a huge sh1tstorm at union level), so what is to be done ?

Keep posting about it on V2 and Twitter obvs.

by Dai Llewod Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:13 am

Irish Londoner wrote:Dai, I hate to break this to you, but there are no current circumstances under which a B & I league is going to happen, however much we would like to see it. Put at it's most simple there is no incentive whatsoever on the table that would make it attractive to the English league.

I personally think that it would be great for all the PRO12 countries to do but the only possible circumstances under which it would happen would be in the event of BT or/and SKY were prepared to shove loads of money at it.

Therefore the question is what does Welsh rugby do, you don't seem to want to be part of the PRO12, you aren't wanted in England under current conditions (and probably never will), I doubt if withdrawing into an internal Welsh league would do the game there any good (not to mention cause a huge sh1tstorm at union level), so what is to be done ?

We've seen that a few important people in Celtic rugby think like you and I do. Unfortunately the blazers in the Celtic Unions don't have forethought and it will take the destruction of Celtic rugby to actually make them act. Which will set celtic rugby back a decade. Just remember who that was on.

The resolution is so easy , and it's so easy to make happen. But the stumbling block comes from the same source every time. Because they've had it so good for so long they shudder at the thought of change. And so do their followers.

by Irish Londoner Fri Aug 26, 2016 4:55 pm

Dai Llewod wrote:We've seen that a few important people in Celtic rugby think like you and I do. Unfortunately the blazers in the Celtic Unions don't have forethought and it will take the destruction of Celtic rugby to actually make them act. Which will set celtic rugby back a decade. Just remember who that was on.

The resolution is so easy , and it's so easy to make happen. But the stumbling block comes from the same source every time. Because they've had it so good for so long they shudder at the thought of change. And so do their followers.

So who would that be Dai?

If you're referring to a B & ! league I think every PRO12 club would sign up to it tomorrow to access the TV money available. However it's also not going to happen except in very exceptional circumstances - i.e. a TV company chucking lots of money at it to point where the Avivia clubs have to agree. The English quite simply don't want us, not the Scots, not the Irish, not the Welsh and absolutely not the Italians.

So back to the original question what can be done about Welsh club rugby?

by marty2086 Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:59 pm

Dai Llewod wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

Just seems to be the one looney, apparently where money is concerned its just bad coaching that equals a lack of success but where 'there isn't money' its the unions fault

Right. Because it's down to the Unions that "there isn't money". Come on, Even the Irish rugby chiefs have acknowledged this in public. But their boss won't do anything about it.

No they said they will face difficulties going forward

No, they said a British and Irish League is the ultimate goal.

And when did they say this?

by Dai Llewod Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:08 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

Just seems to be the one looney, apparently where money is concerned its just bad coaching that equals a lack of success but where 'there isn't money' its the unions fault

Right. Because it's down to the Unions that "there isn't money". Come on, Even the Irish rugby chiefs have acknowledged this in public. But their boss won't do anything about it.

No they said they will face difficulties going forward

No, they said a British and Irish League is the ultimate goal.

And when did they say this?

The CEO of one of the Irish provinces said a few months ago:

Despite giving his backing to what he believes is an improving Pro12, he would welcome the inception of a British and Irish league.

“It is something that will be discussed in the future but the current Aviva Premiership clubs have a good deal. It will take a little bit to tempt them into that but given the Irish population that lives in England, it is certainly attractive having Irish teams going in.

“They have to look at what bringing the teams in would bring to the market itself.

“If you want to compete long-term with what’s going on in France TV-wise, that’s probably the ultimate goal.”

by marty2086 Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:14 pm

It was Garrett Fitzgerald, hes CEO of Munster not the Irish provinces and hes not exactly a man who can be listened to considering he seems out of his depth in the job.

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