British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

First topic message reminder :

Scottrf wrote:Lawes was better than AWJ every week in the 6 Nations and isn't injured yet he's the strange call

AWJ is a leader and well respected by his peers as well as being a former winning Lions test captain.

Lions players aren't just based on how well they did in the six nations, they are picked on how well the coaches think they will gel into the squad.

You need leaders on and off the pitch.

Cyril wrote:It will make no difference regardless. Lions are coached by Gatland  (last man standing  after the proper coaches said no). Such a shame and such a waste. Good luck to the past-it players. RIP Lions. Good luck NZ and hope the English lads come home safely.

actually sums you up.

Gwlad wrote:

Cyril wrote:It will make no difference regardless. Lions are coached by Gatland  (last man standing  after the proper coaches said no). Such a shame and such a waste. Good luck to the past-it players. RIP Lions. Good luck NZ and hope the English lads come home safely.

actually sums you up.

Perhaps theyre more injury prone...oh wait, thats the Irish...

couldnt help it...

So Gwlad you'd be happy if North came home with a career ending concussion?

Three of the super rugby sides have said they will perform the haka v the Lions. Haka overload? Does it cheapen the exercise?

Cheapen the exercise, you mean the haka?

I dear you to walk up to a Maori person and tell them that performing a haka cheapens it

Maybe that's what BOD did?

I think the Lions have a good chance to win the first test and really put the pressure on NZ. New Zealand are quite an indisciplined side and the Lions really need to punish them for this but if they can they can win the first test.

ebop wrote:Cheapen the exercise, you mean the haka?

I dear you to walk up to a Maori person and tell them that performing a haka cheapens it

Maybe that's what BOD did?

New Zealanders are notoriously over sensitive when it comes to criticism so you are right it is pointless having the debate with a Maori.

And you're not?

You even sook over sooka bubba sooky pants BOD

So you don't think at least 7 performances of the haka against the Lions is overkill? For me the Maori and the test side only should be performing it. Club sides shouldn't be doing it. Cheapens it.

Nup

It's a special occasion and the Lions should feel honoured they're afforded the high level of respect that the haka signifies. The SR sides will feel honoured to perform it for the Lions.

It's a mutual thing

It's only the likes of yourself that aim to cheapen it

GunsGermsV2 wrote:So you don't think at least 7 performances of the haka against the Lions is overkill? For me the Maori and the test side only should be performing it. Club sides shouldn't be doing it. Cheapens it.

 Why do you say that?

Why bring bod into this? If nz sides want to perform the haka they can, they're at home.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:So you don't think at least 7 performances of the haka against the Lions is overkill? For me the Maori and the test side only should be performing it. Club sides shouldn't be doing it. Cheapens it.

Not about numbers guns its about respect. The Lions are seen as worthy of respect and you pis all over it.
Just like your rugby. No friken idea.
No wonder we leave you in the smouldering past.
We laugh at your efforts to understand this game. Honestly.

Cheapens it? All we see is cheap from up there.

No idea.

Lions will be sent packing cos like you they have mo idea what theyre in for.

No idea.

7.5, because an Irishman said NZers were sensitive yet BOD is the biggest pile of sensitivity you'd ever come across. And the BOD disciples are equally as sensitive. Like a box of aloe scented tissues.

Yawn. I'm getting tired of the New Zealand "tough guy" rhetoric. A bit like how the players will feel after hearing the haka abut a thousand times. Why would the club teams perform it?

I would love the Lions to just start doing some passing drills or something while it was happening to keep themselves preoccupied. And then hear the NZ press whinge about how disrespectful the Lions are for not grovelling at their feet.

Have a nap Rory, it'll pass

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Yawn. I'm getting tired of the New Zealand "tough guy" rhetoric. A bit like how the players will feel after hearing the haka abut a thousand times. Why would the club teams perform it?

I would love the Lions to just start doing some passing drills or something while it was happening to keep themselves preoccupied. And then hear the NZ press whinge about how disrespectful the Lions are for not grovelling at their feet.

Id be the same. Id get quite bored of it after the third or forth club side did it. Just get on with the game, no one cares about your faux respect.

For me its a nice tradition for the test side as they represent the pinnacle of rugby in New Zealand and indeed the Maori as it is a Maori dance. Same way that there is extra fan fare for all internationals, meeting the president, anthems etc. For club sides its all a bit pompous.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Yawn. I'm getting tired of the New Zealand "tough guy" rhetoric. A bit like how the players will feel after hearing the haka abut a thousand times. Why would the club teams perform it?

I would love the Lions to just start doing some passing drills or something while it was happening to keep themselves preoccupied. And then hear the NZ press whinge about how disrespectful the Lions are for not grovelling at their feet.

So would I Rory. But the press will be more concerned with the scoreline.
Like... how on earth did we not see this coming?
Hilarious.

Put me into the sensitive box then ebop as I'm assuming you believe anyone who thinks it was a bad spear tackle.which should have resulted in 2 red cards is sensitive.

Tough guys unless you don't take grown men sticking out their tongues and stamping their feet seriously. Even 5 year olds grow out of that.

ebop wrote:7.5, because an Irishman said NZers were sensitive yet BOD is the biggest pile of sensitivity you'd ever come across. And the BOD disciples are equally as sensitive. Like a box of aloe scented tissues.

Just take a look at this page and tell me which fans are sensitive. 

Out of curiosity - why is BOD called sensitive anyway? Didn't he refuse to talk about the situation in the public eye and made a deal to keep the conversation between himself and Umaga private? Which Umaga, the worthy NZ, decided to break and tell the press, calling him a "sook".

I'm seeing a pattern. NZ demand respect, show it to nobody else.

Yes 7.5, BOD got hurt yadda yadda yadda

12 years ago

People still hold the grudge including the mallow puff himself

As a Lions fan I also really dont give a hoot about the games v the super rugby sides. Think for the most part they are a waste of time. All I care about are the three test matches. The itinerary should be a game v 1 super rugby side a game v the Maori and three tests. That would be enough.

You should because they could give the mighty Lions a tickle up

You brought it up ebop.

ebop wrote:Cheapen the exercise, you mean the haka?

I dear you to walk up to a Maori person and tell them that performing a haka cheapens it

Maybe that's what BOD did?

Showing your ignorance of 2005, there ebop. The Lions were lectured constantly on the need to respect the Haka. BOD and the Lions management went out of their way to consult Maori elders on the appropriate response. BOD followed their recommendations to the letter.

Minutes later, of course, he was on the deck being treated for a bad injury while his opposite number failed to have the decency to go over and check on him. I was pleased to see earlier in this thread that some on New Zealand supporters recognize that was poor form.

I think the Kiwis are proving me right that they are a fairly over sensitive bunch. I wonder does it have a lot to do with being quite a geographically isolated country and therefore quite homogeneous of thought. Ireland used to be a lot like that up until the 90s when there was quite a sharp increase in immigration.

It's all hakas and BODs

Two hoary old chestnuts

No guns

You're just proving your ignorance

Rugby Fan wrote:

ebop wrote:Cheapen the exercise, you mean the haka?

I dear you to walk up to a Maori person and tell them that performing a haka cheapens it

Maybe that's what BOD did?

Showing your ignorance of 2005, there ebop. The Lions were lectured constantly on the need to respect the Haka. BOD and the Lions management went out of their way to consult Maori elders on the appropriate response. BOD followed their recommendations to the letter.

Minutes later, of course, he was on the deck being treated for a bad injury while his opposite number failed to have the decency to go over and check on him. I was pleased to see earlier in this thread that some on New Zealand supporters recognize that was poor form.

 RF, Im pretty sure the there is no connection between the two events. By all accounts the current Lions management team are being most respectful to these three local Iwi of the Auckland. Canterbury and Waikato areas, and have agreed to these extra Haka being performed.

Are New Zealanders inherently over sensitive and reactionary and is that why as a side they are quite ill disciplined?

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Are New Zealanders inherently over sensitive and reactionary and is that why as a side they are quite ill disciplined?

 According to the Irish we cant take criticism.

Guns, I don't think we're any more sensitive than others. Notice guns, we don't mention your quaint Irish customs for example. It's poor form to attack ones culture.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Are New Zealanders inherently over sensitive and reactionary and is that why as a side they are quite ill disciplined?

 According to the Irish we cant take criticism.

Yes that appears to be the case. In NZs last three games v Ireland they have conceded 34 penalties, 3 yellow cards and 1 suspension vs 13 penalties zero yellow cards and no suspensions and yet when Irish fans point out NZ dicipline they go off the rails like someone peed on their door step or something.

It doesnt take long to conclude that NZ fans cant take criticism at all.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Are New Zealanders inherently over sensitive and reactionary and is that why as a side they are quite ill disciplined?

 According to the Irish we cant take criticism.

Yes that appears to be the case. In NZs last three games v Ireland they have conceded 34 penalties, 3 yellow cards and 1 suspension vs 13 penalties zero yellow cards and no suspensions and yet when Irish fans point out NZ dicipline they go off the rails like someone peed on their door step or something.

It doesnt take long to conclude that NZ fans cant take criticism.

 Gee in your eyes we must be a pretty bad lot, Do we ever mock your heritage and culture as well? Or would you consider doing that a good thing.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Are New Zealanders inherently over sensitive and reactionary and is that why as a side they are quite ill disciplined?

What heartens me guns is that youve never been good enough to either face a haka, let alone lead one.
Ive done both and I can assure you it is about respect.
To carry on as a fan, and not a real player leaves you diminished as a commentator.
I can guarantee your countrymen will have felt nothing but respect at facing the haka at any level.
Thats because they have the understanding, the balls. You as a mere spectator dont.
So dont speak for you national side. You have nothing in common in that respect.

I never agree that playing a sport to a particular level gives your thoughts more weight. Pele picked diouf and ignored Dennis law in his list if greatest living players for example.

Jeez you guys see the Laumape try?

Taylorman wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Are New Zealanders inherently over sensitive and reactionary and is that why as a side they are quite ill disciplined?

What heartens me guns is that youve never been good enough to either face a haka, let alone lead one.
Ive done both and I can assure you it is about respect.
To carry on as a fan, and not a real player leaves you diminished as a commentator.
I can guarantee your countrymen will have felt nothing but respect at facing the haka at any level.
Thats because they have the understanding, the balls. You as a mere spectator dont.
So dont speak for you national side. You have nothing in common in that respect.

Sounds like you are a real hero. Why take yourself so seriously? Come man lighten up with the respect shoite talk.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Are New Zealanders inherently over sensitive and reactionary and is that why as a side they are quite ill disciplined?

What heartens me guns is that youve never been good enough to either face a haka, let alone lead one.
Ive done both and I can assure you it is about respect.
To carry on as a fan, and not a real player leaves you diminished as a commentator.
I can guarantee your countrymen will have felt nothing but respect at facing the haka at any level.
Thats because they have the understanding, the balls. You as a mere spectator dont.
So dont speak for you national side. You have nothing in common in that respect.

Sounds like you are a real hero. Why take yourself so seriously? Come man lighten up with the respect shoite talk.

 You may not understand this but in Maori culture it is all about respect and the respect of youre enemy in death, there are various fprms and protocols of Haka   and one of which is the standoff or challenge before war. Its all about respect.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

 Gee in your eyes we must be a pretty bad lot, Do we ever mock your heritage and culture as well? Or would you consider doing that a good thing.

Laurie, Im hardly mocking your heritage if I think that the Haka is better served if it is reserved for test games.

aucklandlaurie wrote:You may not understand this but in Maori culture it is all about respect and the respect of youre enemy in death, there are various fprms and protocols of Haka   and one of which is the standoff or challenge before war. Its all about respect.

Is viewing a game of rugby as war respectful? I'd say no and it's probably why the All Blacks try to hurt the opposition.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

 You may not understand this but in Maori culture it is all about respect and the respect of youre enemy in death, there are various fprms and protocols of Haka   and one of which is the standoff or challenge before war. Its all about respect.

Thats a wonderful story but you dont necessarily need to fawn over someones dance to respect them. There are many ways to skin a cat.[/quote]

Scottrf wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:You may not understand this but in Maori culture it is all about respect and the respect of youre enemy in death, there are various fprms and protocols of Haka   and one of which is the standoff or challenge before war. Its all about respect.

Is viewing a game of rugby as war respectful? I'd say no and it's probably why the All Blacks try to hurt the opposition.

Maybe its that mentality that precludes them from accepting any responsibility for ill discipline on the pitch.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:So you don't think at least 7 performances of the haka against the Lions is overkill? For me the Maori and the test side only should be performing it. Club sides shouldn't be doing it. Cheapens it.

Personally, I think the Haka should be dispensed with.

Let me start by saying how much I like the Haka. I think it's a glorious spectacle and really enjoy watching it. When rugby was amateur, and especially when touring teams were sailing across to the world to some far flung country, I really like the colour and culture that these local traditions add. Now that rugby is a professional sport, I think it should be stopped. Many players speak of the anthems as being a time they find difficult as they are trying to maintain the right level of focus and motivation from the teamtalk and if they could they would get straight into the game. With the Haka, not only does it prolong that period (as do Aus and Ire second anthems, I'd advocate the removal of those too) but it provides an opportunity for one team to psyche themselves up immediately before kickoff, whilst the opposition is expected to politely and quietly observe. (any attempts to do otherwise are often met with huge disdain).

I have faced a welcome ceremony at the Maori village when I was over in 2005. It was very impressive and you felt part of something strong (even though that was more a tourist trap)

I think it is great, but as a personal view - the more you see the less impactful it becomes

HOWEVER, that does not mean it should not be done, as the individuals within the teams doing it will take immense pride in doing it, and it is a sign of respect.

One interesting thing a lot of the Kiwis mentioned when I was over, was that if the All Blacks had lost, no-one would ave gone out to the bars after - so in one way good we lost - as I had a ball.

Not sure if this is actually the case?

In the BOD - lets leave it now. It is too long ago and while it was a poor incident, it is time to put it to bed

(Although I did have a great time walking around as a group before the second test last time in a sling - even got interviewed by Irish TV in the middle of a road)

I really like the Haka and hope it is retained. It's a part of world rugby in my opinion.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

 Gee in your eyes we must be a pretty bad lot, Do we ever mock your heritage and culture as well? Or would you consider doing that a good thing.

Laurie, Im hardly mocking your heritage if I think that the Haka is better served if it is reserved for test games.

  Well actually you are, but I know its not intentional, its about respecting the local Iwi (Tribe) who are the Tanga Whenua (People of the land) as such they are hold the rights of those lands in its use,and that includes its visitors and residents, the three areas Waikato. Auckland (Tamaki Makaura), and Canterbury are doing this in concert with their local Iwi.

R!skysports wrote:I have faced a welcome ceremony at the Maori village when I was over in 2005. It was very impressive and you felt part of something strong (even though that was more a tourist trap)

I think it is great, but as a personal view - the more you see the less impactful it becomes

HOWEVER, that does not mean it should not be done, as the individuals within the teams doing it will take immense pride in doing it, and it is a sign of respect.

One interesting thing a lot of the Kiwis mentioned when I was over, was that if the All Blacks had loster - so in one way good we lost - as I had a ball.

Not sure if this is actually  the case?

In the BOD - lets leave it now. It is too long ago and while it was a poor incident, it is time to put it to bed

(Although I did have a great time walking around as a group before the second test last time in a sling - even got interviewed by Irish TV in the middle of a road)

 I can assure you Risky that you have been misled, I will go to a bar after a win, loss or draw, hell dont even need a game.