Hurricanes vs Lions, 27th June 2017

First topic message reminder :


Hurricanes v British & Irish Lions
Venue: Westpac Stadium, Wellington
Date: Tuesday, 27 June.
Kick off: 08:35 BST
Live on: Sky Sports 1, from 8am

Lions



1. Joe Marler (ENG)
2. Rory Best (IRE) (Captain)
3. Dan Cole (ENG)
4. Courtney Lawes (ENG)
5. Iain Henderson (IRE)
6. James Haskell (ENG)
7. Justin Tipuric (WAL)
8. CJ Stander (IRE)
9. Greig Laidlaw (SCO)
10. Dan Biggar (WAL)
11. George North (WAL)
12. Robbie Henshaw (IRE)
13. Jonathan Joseph (ENG)
14. Tommy Seymour (SCO)
15. Jack Nowell    (ENG)

16. Kristian Dacey (WAL)
17. Allan Dell (SCO)
18. Tomas Francis (WAL)
19. Cory Hill (WAL)
20. George Kruis (ENG)
21. Gareth Davies (WAL)
22. Finn Russell (SCO)
23. Jared Payne (IRE)

Hurricanes



1. Ben May
2. Ricky Riccitelli
3. Jeffery Toomaga-Allen
4. Mark Abbott
5. Mark Lousi
6. Vaea Fifita
7. Callum Gibbins
8. Brad Shields (Captain)
9. Te Toiroa-Tahuriorangi
10. Otere Black
11. Julian Savea
12. Ngani Laumape
13. Vince Aso
14. Nehe Milner-Skudder
15. Jordie Barrett

16. Leni Apisai
17. Chris Eves
18. Mike Kainga
19. Janes Blackwell
20. Reed Prinsep
21. K Hauiti-Parapara
22. Wes Goosen
23. Cory Jane

TJ wrote:I have said all along that given the type of player Russell is he needs familar players around him and a set of tactic designed for him.  Laidlaw is not his half back partner.  Price is.

He doesn't play at an international level with Laidlaw then... oh!!!

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

BamBam wrote:Losing the ball, knocking it on and looking clueless all in 10 mins hasn't stopped Alun Wyn Jones starting a Test

This is pretty much Alun Wyn Jones' USP

Now, this is where the outrage will start.

Couldn't help it, apologies in advance

Gatland is a kiwi, so the arrogance is to be expected. He doesn't want to be proven wrong, so he kept his benchwarmers safe in case they let him down on the pitch. Everyone can see right through him though and he is going to be absolutely slaughtered for it when the tour is over. Only a win against the All Blacks can soften the blow. If he loses, all of these little mistakes will add up.

yappysnap wrote:

No9 wrote:

Griff wrote:

No9 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

TJ wrote:Why not give Russell a run?  Is it because Gatland is afraid that he would play a blinder and prove he should have been there from the start?

He had his chance 

... and he was sh!te... may only have been on for Biggar's HIA, but he lost the ball, knocked it on and looked clueless.. Ok, to be fair, 10 mins may not be much time to get into the game, but he looked like he hadn't played rugby before. Going to be ripped apart for this, but considering he was playing with his international half back partner, he was rubbish.

You will!

Some don't like the truth

Judging him on 10 mins of hia cover seems a tad unfair.

Especially when he seemed to know this was his only opportunity and forced things.

That's international test rugby... Step up and take your chance or sit back down.... He had his chance, with his international half back partner and he didn't take his chance. Might seem tough, but can you see a NZer being given the same chance in an All Black jersey not performing... He wasn't good enough, if he had been, he may have been left on to save Biggar.

So the guys brought in were done so for cover, players being out on their feet surely is something they were brought in to cover?

No 7&1/2 wrote:Sounds like Russell had a similar game to Biggar last match so solid 7 out of 10?

Would have only given him a 4 and that's being generous as he only had 10 mins....

mid_gen wrote:

ebop wrote:

mid_gen wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Spot the troll

It's not hard. Every lions thread, bait bait bait. Do we not have mods?

Get over yourselves. Where was the outrage from either of you with that cleanout?  

I'm here for the rugby, not the low-grade trolling from the likes of you.

Is your life that empty that you have to get your kicks from trying to rile people up on an internet forum? Tragic.

Wow, you're thin skinned. I don't abuse or insult anyone on here but gwlad gets some treatment because he deserves it. Just don't read my posts and move on mate

Best should start the tests. He offers more than George. The ABs blasted our forwards at the breakdown and on the gain line. Best would be a great remedy for some of this. He is unreal at the break down and tackles like a dog all day. Very physical.

Yes Best has missed some throws which has been disappointing however, not sure I get the George hype.

Cheers mintie, so obviously quite different incidents.

marty2086 wrote:So the guys brought in were done so for cover, players being out on their feet surely is something they were brought in to cover?

Brought in to cover Gatland's own ass, nothing more. It backfired. The only explanation is that they are there to gain valuable experience as Gatland plans for next season with Wales.

BamBam wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

BamBam wrote:Losing the ball, knocking it on and looking clueless all in 10 mins hasn't stopped Alun Wyn Jones starting a Test

This is pretty much Alun Wyn Jones' USP

Now, this is where the outrage will start.

Couldn't help it, apologies in advance

I expect AWJ to retire from international rugby after this tour... He's getting on and I think he really wanted to tour 3 times for the Lions, ie do each of the Lions Tours to SA, Aus, NZ. He's done that now, I think he'll now retire before being dropped.

There's some difference to the officiating of peyper and Poite to the breakdown as well guns.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

marty2086 wrote:So the guys brought in were done so for cover, players being out on their feet surely is something they were brought in to cover?

Brought in to cover Gatland's own ass, nothing more. It backfired. The only explanation is that they are there to gain valuable experience as Gatland plans for next season with Wales.

Dell and Russell switching allegiances? Qualified by wearing Welsh red this summer, that'll really annoy the Scots

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Griff wrote:

No9 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

TJ wrote:Why not give Russell a run?  Is it because Gatland is afraid that he would play a blinder and prove he should have been there from the start?

He had his chance 

... and he was sh!te... may only have been on for Biggar's HIA, but he lost the ball, knocked it on and looked clueless.. Ok, to be fair, 10 mins may not be much time to get into the game, but he looked like he hadn't played rugby before. Going to be ripped apart for this, but considering he was playing with his international half back partner, he was rubbish.

You will!

He isn't a Welsh player so I imagine the outrage will be rather mild, actually.

I actually thought he was more like, "meh i'll only be on for a bit may as well enjoy it" Made a nice run and risked the offload that had it come off may have worked well. Threw it wide to seymour who did a nice chip and gather but then there was synical play if I remmeber correctly. I thought he added a bit of tempo, looked like he wanted to play SH rugby haha

I guess Henderson needs to take some of the blame for the loss. Had a great game by the sounds of it. But, we were 14 points up before the yellow. 14 points conceded in his absence. That extra man really counted.

The question now is, where does Gatland go?

The following players are (1) in New Zealand with the Lions, (2) not booked on a plane home tonight (3) haven't played all or substantially all of a midweek game and (4) have no injury doubts.

Jamie George, Ken Owens, Mako Vunipola, Jack McGrath, Tadhg Furlong, Kyle Sinckler
Maro Itoje, Alun-Wyn Jones, George Kruis, Courtney Lawes
Peter O'Mahony, Sean O'Brien, Sam Warburton, Taulupe Faletau
Conor Murray, Rhys Webb
Owen Farrell, Jonny Sexton
Ben Te'o, Jonathan Davies
Eliot Daly, Anthony Watson, Liam Williams

In trying to protect his test 23, he's completely exhausted his fringe guys and all but ruled them out the second test. He has 23 fit names, and that gives no outside back cover. It also gives him no room to manoeuvre with regards to tactical switches on the basis of that game.

Gatland has in effect split the test and midweek team just as Woodward did in 2005. The difference being this time that Gatland has a worse midweek record. He needs to do something in the tests or this tour will be looked upon in the same light as 2005.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Cheers mintie, so obviously quite different incidents.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. If I am honest it was a sickening lift and Joseph realised where it was going but it was too late. Henderson did not cover himself in glory by going on with it and Jordie had the wherewithall to adjust for impact.

Very similar to BOD I would say, without the same outcome.

So he was driven into the floor?

No 7&1/2 wrote:Cheers mintie, so obviously quite different incidents.

No, they were very similar incidents. Difference being one player was injured the other wasn't. Henderson lifted one leg, number 13 lifted the other, Henderson continued with the drive after number 13 let go and Barrett was well past the horizontal and landed on his....wait for it....his shoulder.

Griff wrote:I guess Henderson needs to take some of the blame for the loss.  Had a great game by the sounds of it.  But, we were 14 points up before the yellow. 14 points conceded in his absence.  That extra man really counted.

Why not Joseph for grabbing the leg needlessly?

No9 wrote:

BamBam wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

BamBam wrote:Losing the ball, knocking it on and looking clueless all in 10 mins hasn't stopped Alun Wyn Jones starting a Test

This is pretty much Alun Wyn Jones' USP

Now, this is where the outrage will start.

Couldn't help it, apologies in advance

I expect AWJ to retire from international rugby after this tour... He's getting on and I think he really wanted to tour 3 times for the Lions, ie do each of the Lions Tours to SA, Aus, NZ. He's done that now, I think he'll now retire before being dropped.

5 months ago he was made Wales captain.

Gatland makes it really, really difficult to like him. Players clearly knackered yet he refuses to bring the subs on - his decision to call up the 'Gatland 6' really is going to be scrutinized for many months to come after the tour.

They should speak to Ryan Grant for advice....

robbo277 wrote:

No9 wrote:

BamBam wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

BamBam wrote:Losing the ball, knocking it on and looking clueless all in 10 mins hasn't stopped Alun Wyn Jones starting a Test

This is pretty much Alun Wyn Jones' USP

Now, this is where the outrage will start.

Couldn't help it, apologies in advance

I expect AWJ to retire from international rugby after this tour... He's getting on and I think he really wanted to tour 3 times for the Lions, ie do each of the Lions Tours to SA, Aus, NZ. He's done that now, I think he'll now retire before being dropped.

5 months ago he was made Wales captain.

And Biggar had to took over from him doing that

Griff wrote:I guess Henderson needs to take some of the blame for the loss.  Had a great game by the sounds of it.  But, we were 14 points up before the yellow. 14 points conceded in his absence.  That extra man really counted.

Nope.... don't agree. What Henderson did, others (if they wear black) get away with all the time. It was far less than Teo's tackle on Saturday, and that was just a penalty. He shouldn't have done it, and knew that, you could see he knew he made a mistake and didn't question it, but it really wasn't that bad. Also, the work he did before this was key to the points the Lions actually managed to rack up, so blaming him would be wrong.

I've not been a fan of Henderson, but he earned himself a lot of brownie points today.

If henderson has driven him into the ground then ebop I'd say he's going to be in trouble with the citing officer.

robbo277 wrote:The question now is, where does Gatland go?

The following players are (1) in New Zealand with the Lions, (2) not booked on a plane home tonight (3) haven't played all or substantially all of a midweek game and (4) have no injury doubts.

Jamie George, Ken Owens, Mako Vunipola, Jack McGrath, Tadhg Furlong, Kyle Sinckler
Maro Itoje, Alun-Wyn Jones, George Kruis, Courtney Lawes
Peter O'Mahony, Sean O'Brien, Sam Warburton, Taulupe Faletau
Conor Murray, Rhys Webb
Owen Farrell, Jonny Sexton
Ben Te'o, Jonathan Davies
Eliot Daly, Anthony Watson, Liam Williams

In trying to protect his test 23, he's completely exhausted his fringe guys and all but ruled them out the second test. He has 23 fit names, and that gives no outside back cover. It also gives him no room to manoeuvre with regards to tactical switches on the basis of that game.

Gatland has in effect split the test and midweek team just as Woodward did in 2005. The difference being this time that Gatland has a worse midweek record. He needs to do something in the tests or this tour will be looked upon in the same light as 2005.

I agree that Gats has done a Woodward in terms of splitting the teams a bit. But with this schedule you sort of have to. However, he's also brought mid week players into the test team, so the door is not closed. I think it was closed with Woodward wasn't it?

Also, the two tours are not really comparable in terms of non-test fixtures. We're playing super rugby sides this tour. We only played the NPC sides last tour. It's probably the equivalent of playing the English Prem teams this tour and the English Championship teams in 2005.

ebop wrote:

rodders wrote:

ebop wrote:Wow, that was exciting

Nice comeback from the Canes to get back into it but they will be bitterly disappointed not to have won that

Gats will be disappointed they didn't win too. I hope Rory lamps him again after the match.

Yeah he will be I'm sure. The Lions were in command and thought they'd stroll away with it and maybe they did to. But credit to the Canes. Some more good tries for the Lions. Discipline still an issue though. Both teams today but the Lions shouldn't need to be.

What do you mean Rory lamping him again, like punch?

Well headlock, body slam, punch - anything that inflicts some level of pain would do.

They had an altercation on the previous tour and are known to hate each other bitterly, so Rory will have known he had no chance of making the tests. The Queen probably did too hence making him OBE mid tour to embarrass Gatland.

Rory won't take kindly to Gats risking the welfare of his troops so imagine Gats will be hiding somewhere for a few days.

chewed_mintie wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Cheers mintie, so obviously quite different incidents.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.  If I am honest it was a sickening lift and Joseph realised where it was going but it was too late.  Henderson did not cover himself in glory by going on with it and Jordie had the wherewithall to adjust for impact.

Very similar to BOD I would say, without the same outcome.

What a load of bo!!ox...

Dunno 7.5, we'll see

The criticism of Russell is as predictable as it is sad. I wish he hadn't even bothered going - he gets on for 10 mins and is then savaged.

I'd take him over any other NH fly-half, and will take great delight over his performances in the years to come.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Gatland makes it really, really difficult to like him. Players clearly knackered yet he refuses to bring the subs on - his decision to call up the 'Gatland 6' really is going to be scrutinized for many months to come after the tour.

They should speak to Ryan Grant for advice....

I've seen them referred to as the geography 6. I like that.

marty2086 wrote:

Griff wrote:I guess Henderson needs to take some of the blame for the loss.  Had a great game by the sounds of it.  But, we were 14 points up before the yellow. 14 points conceded in his absence.  That extra man really counted.

Why not Joseph for grabbing the leg needlessly?

Because Joseph didn't get carded.

robbo277 wrote:

No9 wrote:

BamBam wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

BamBam wrote:Losing the ball, knocking it on and looking clueless all in 10 mins hasn't stopped Alun Wyn Jones starting a Test

This is pretty much Alun Wyn Jones' USP

Now, this is where the outrage will start.

Couldn't help it, apologies in advance

I expect AWJ to retire from international rugby after this tour... He's getting on and I think he really wanted to tour 3 times for the Lions, ie do each of the Lions Tours to SA, Aus, NZ. He's done that now, I think he'll now retire before being dropped.

5 months ago he was made Wales captain.

yes... he was the most experience player to take up the captaincy at that time... doesn't mean he wont retire.

EST wrote:The criticism of Russell is as predictable as it is sad.  I wish he hadn't even bothered going - he gets on for 10 mins and is then savaged.

I'd take him over any other NH fly-half, and will take great delight over his performances in the years to come.  

Savaged?! One person made 1 comment, which looked a bit tongue in cheek to me. 1 PERSON! 1 COMMENT! What a hissy fit!

EST wrote:The criticism of Russell is as predictable as it is sad.  I wish he hadn't even bothered going - he gets on for 10 mins and is then savaged.

I'd take him over any other NH fly-half, and will take great delight over his performances in the years to come.  

Savaged   One poster, with most people defending him because he only had 10 minutes.

Good game and Iain Henderson deserves a bench spot after his wonderful performance.

Lawes played well too.

AWJ might as well pack his bags and go home.

Sums up the tour for me. Gatland hasn't won the respect he hoped to win in New Zealand.

Griff wrote:

robbo277 wrote:The question now is, where does Gatland go?

The following players are (1) in New Zealand with the Lions, (2) not booked on a plane home tonight (3) haven't played all or substantially all of a midweek game and (4) have no injury doubts.

Jamie George, Ken Owens, Mako Vunipola, Jack McGrath, Tadhg Furlong, Kyle Sinckler
Maro Itoje, Alun-Wyn Jones, George Kruis, Courtney Lawes
Peter O'Mahony, Sean O'Brien, Sam Warburton, Taulupe Faletau
Conor Murray, Rhys Webb
Owen Farrell, Jonny Sexton
Ben Te'o, Jonathan Davies
Eliot Daly, Anthony Watson, Liam Williams

In trying to protect his test 23, he's completely exhausted his fringe guys and all but ruled them out the second test. He has 23 fit names, and that gives no outside back cover. It also gives him no room to manoeuvre with regards to tactical switches on the basis of that game.

Gatland has in effect split the test and midweek team just as Woodward did in 2005. The difference being this time that Gatland has a worse midweek record. He needs to do something in the tests or this tour will be looked upon in the same light as 2005.

I agree that Gats has done a Woodward in terms of splitting the teams a bit.  But with this schedule you sort of have to.  However, he's also brought mid week players into the test team, so the door is not closed.  I think it was closed with Woodward wasn't it?

Also, the two tours are not really comparable in terms of non-test fixtures.  We're playing super rugby sides this tour.  We only played the NPC sides last tour.  It's probably the equivalent of playing the English Prem teams this tour and the English Championship teams in 2005.

If you have to split them then you need to have 2 full squads. Not one full squad, one second team and a bench you won't use.

Then, you can bring off your midweek guys early and move them to the weekend team if they're performing well. It keeps a pathway open, even if you don't use it.

Gatland has very few options for the second test now.

The midweek team wasn't even coached by Woodward in 2005, so it's not even something you can attribute to him. But W 1, D 1, L 2 in the 4 midweek fixtures is not good enough outright, even if we cannot compare it to 2005.

Has Tommy Seymour managed to niggle his way into the test side? Had a stormer tonight! Took his trys well and that tackle to force the Hurricanes miss pass and then track Laidlaw was another great individual effort from him. Could be a credible replacement for either of Watson or Daly in my opinion. Thoughts?

Also, thought Henderson was terrific and put his hand up, ignoring the yellow card.

Best also had a solid game and I was impressed with Biggar's endeavour and commitment, however I think he was a little weak in defence, but I think he's shown more than Sexton has so far.

bsando wrote:Has Tommy Seymour managed to niggle his way into the test side? Had a stormer tonight! Took his trys well and that tackle to force the Hurricanes miss pass and then track Laidlaw was another great individual effort from him. Could be a credible replacement for either of Watson or Daly in my opinion. Thoughts?

Also, thought Henderson was terrific and put his hand up, ignoring the yellow card.

Best also had a solid game and I was impressed with Biggar's endeavour and commitment, however I think he was a little weak in defence, but I think he's shown more than Sexton has so far.

I think I can say with confidence that he won't be picked regardless of what he did tonight!

Griff wrote:

EST wrote:The criticism of Russell is as predictable as it is sad.  I wish he hadn't even bothered going - he gets on for 10 mins and is then savaged.

I'd take him over any other NH fly-half, and will take great delight over his performances in the years to come.  

Savaged?!  One person made 1 comment, which looked a bit tongue in cheek to me.  1 PERSON!  1 COMMENT!  What a hissy fit!

Ok savaged was the wrong word - but i'm just very pissed off.

That was a game that the Lions should have won, why the hell did Gats not use his subs? It's also a culmulative thing - why not give Russell (or any of the subs) 20 mins at the end of the game to show what they can do after calling them up? The whole thing is shoite.

Griff wrote:

EST wrote:The criticism of Russell is as predictable as it is sad.  I wish he hadn't even bothered going - he gets on for 10 mins and is then savaged.

I'd take him over any other NH fly-half, and will take great delight over his performances in the years to come.  

Savaged?!  One person made 1 comment, which looked a bit tongue in cheek to me.  1 PERSON!  1 COMMENT!  What a hissy fit!

^ This, I wish he has a better oppertunity, but I've not seen anything akin to savaging.

Don't think Watson or Daly need to go, Seymour looked decent and was one I thought would be a star this tour but still don't think he's done enough or is versatile to make the bench

rodders wrote:

ebop wrote:

rodders wrote:

ebop wrote:Wow, that was exciting

Nice comeback from the Canes to get back into it but they will be bitterly disappointed not to have won that

Gats will be disappointed they didn't win too. I hope Rory lamps him again after the match.

Yeah he will be I'm sure. The Lions were in command and thought they'd stroll away with it and maybe they did to. But credit to the Canes. Some more good tries for the Lions. Discipline still an issue though. Both teams today but the Lions shouldn't need to be.

What do you mean Rory lamping him again, like punch?

Well headlock, body slam, punch - anything that inflicts some level of pain would do.

They had an altercation on the previous tour and are known to hate each other bitterly, so Rory will have known he had no chance of making the tests. The Queen probably did too hence making him OBE mid tour to embarrass Gatland.

Rory won't take kindly to Gats risking the welfare of his troops so imagine Gats will be hiding somewhere for a few days.  

Whoa, really? Didn't realise they had a beef. Thanks for explaining that.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Sums up the tour for me. Gatland hasn't won the respect he hoped to win in New Zealand.

Lol so Wales are stuck with him

bsando wrote:Has Tommy Seymour managed to niggle his way into the test side? Had a stormer tonight! Took his trys well and that tackle to force the Hurricanes miss pass and then track Laidlaw was another great individual effort from him. Could be a credible replacement for either of Watson or Daly in my opinion. Thoughts?

Also, thought Henderson was terrific and put his hand up, ignoring the yellow card.

Best also had a solid game and I was impressed with Biggar's endeavour and commitment, however I think he was a little weak in defence, but I think he's shown more than Sexton has so far.

You'd like to think so, Bsando. All 3 seemed to do very well. But, don't forget that this is a midweek game so posters, if they're being consistent, will say that 'you can't read too much into good performances against weak midweek opposition' as they did when discussing players v Chiefs, etc.

No9 wrote:

chewed_mintie wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Cheers mintie, so obviously quite different incidents.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.  If I am honest it was a sickening lift and Joseph realised where it was going but it was too late.  Henderson did not cover himself in glory by going on with it and Jordie had the wherewithall to adjust for impact.

Very similar to BOD I would say, without the same outcome.

What a load of bo!!ox...

Yup, of course it is.....

RDW_Scotland wrote:

bsando wrote:Has Tommy Seymour managed to niggle his way into the test side? Had a stormer tonight! Took his trys well and that tackle to force the Hurricanes miss pass and then track Laidlaw was another great individual effort from him. Could be a credible replacement for either of Watson or Daly in my opinion. Thoughts?

Also, thought Henderson was terrific and put his hand up, ignoring the yellow card.

Best also had a solid game and I was impressed with Biggar's endeavour and commitment, however I think he was a little weak in defence, but I think he's shown more than Sexton has so far.

I think I can say with confidence that he won't be picked regardless of what he did tonight!

^ Also this 100%.

It doesn't matter if his name was Jonah "I'm the best winger in world rugby" Habana-ClercSella. He wouldn't be getting in the test side.

TightHEAD wrote:Good game and Iain Henderson deserves a bench spot after his wonderful performance.  

Hendo should focus on 2021 in SA where he can follow in the footsteps of Willie John McBride, Jeremy Davidson and Paul O'Connell, under a decent coach in Gregor Townsend, and not waste any more energy on this farce of a Welsh development tour.

EST wrote:

Griff wrote:

EST wrote:The criticism of Russell is as predictable as it is sad.  I wish he hadn't even bothered going - he gets on for 10 mins and is then savaged.

I'd take him over any other NH fly-half, and will take great delight over his performances in the years to come.  

Savaged?!  One person made 1 comment, which looked a bit tongue in cheek to me.  1 PERSON!  1 COMMENT!  What a hissy fit!

Ok savaged was the wrong word - but i'm just very pissed off.

That was a game that the Lions should have won, why the hell did Gats not use his subs?  It's also a culmulative thing - why not give Russell (or any of the subs) 20 mins at the end of the game to show what they can do after calling them up?  The whole thing is shoite.

In fairness, if Russell wants to consider himself a proper Lion, which he is now, then he needs to accept that any mistakes (even in a 10 min cameo) will be savaged by the 606v2 posters.  It's part of being a Lion!  Happens to every other player, so why not him too?!