Challenge League Homepage IV

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This Week's Fixtures

Season 2 TBC

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This Week's Key Deadlines

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Links

Team	_________	Manager
Kalamazoo Outrage	_________	Hero
Shakhtar Senseless	_________	Marky
Fußball	_________	Trebs
SAS	_________	Olly
Melbourne Victory	_________	Afro
Deportivo Wanka	_________	Nando
Olympique Marswag	_________	Miky
Melbourne City	_________	Twist
Wellington Pheonix	_________	Bam
Fiorentina Turner	_________	Tino

Match	_________	Transfer	_________	Other
Fixtures	_________	Lawyers	_________	Rules
Table	_________	Foreigns	_________	Youth Rules
Injuries	_________	Releases	_________	Press Conferences
	_________	Confirmation	_________
	_________	Loans	_________

I dont think we need to end after season 2. I think what will happen is the prices will freeze for season 3 with whatever we raise it to for season 2.

Using Afros 3rd April start date, then season 2 will end beginning of July. We could have a cup tournament then and start season 3 beginning of August when new season starts. Or have a month wheeling and dealing as the transfer window will be in full swing.

By season 3 start there will be a lot of movers price wise and transfer window will be nearly finished.

add in the world cup too

Hero wrote:1. Yes, seriously who cares.
2. Money wise I think most people should have a healthy pot of cash with price resetting of players.
3. Personally I think no cap, people state it shortens the length of the league etc etc, well we've always had caps and the leagues have always dried up, which league doesn't have caps, oh the one that's in its 9 season.
4. Sounds fine to me though I'd open up lawyers in the weeks beforehand to allow people to have started building their season 2 team.
5. Did the freezing actually do anything? Wasn't it put into place to stop the likes of me going for all the kids and making a hefty profit? Well that worked well.

If the values are permanently frozen it will work very well

It doesn't at all as people buy a young player at set amount, that player then rises in value and the manager won't then sell the player as it's pointless to do so and the league stagnates as no players are moving in and out. Just look at the 2nd half of the season to see this in effect.

true, look at LSTD's league, full of all the talent..but deals are constantly going on

Hero wrote:It doesn't at all as people buy a young player at set amount, that player then rises in value and the manager won't then sell the player as it's pointless to do so and the league stagnates as no players are moving in and out. Just look at the 2nd half of the season to see this in effect.

Although part of the reason for that is people knowing they would be able to get more when the prices go up in the not too distant future. If there was no increase, then they wouldn't get that and might be more inclined to sell.

The only way to stop stockbroker league is to cap the profit a team can make on a player through lawyers, But the reality of the situation is that teams make money on players IRL, buy them cheap, develop them and sell for more.

The real issue for me is that the young players get rated too highly, too quickly without really proving themselves at that level. The only way around this that I can see is results coming from something like FIFA

Afro wrote:

Hero wrote:It doesn't at all as people buy a young player at set amount, that player then rises in value and the manager won't then sell the player as it's pointless to do so and the league stagnates as no players are moving in and out. Just look at the 2nd half of the season to see this in effect.

Although part of the reason for that is people knowing they would be able to get more when the prices go up in the not too distant future. If there was no increase, then they wouldn't get that and might be more inclined to sell.

The only way to stop stockbroker league is to cap the profit a team can make on a player through lawyers, But the reality of the situation is that teams make money on players IRL, buy them cheap, develop them and sell for more.

The real issue for me is that the young players get rated too highly, too quickly without really proving themselves at that level. The only way around this that I can see is results coming from something like FIFA

They'd only sell within the league though, why would anyone who has a player for example Phil Foden sell him for the frozen price they bought them for back to foreigns?

Isn't that what we are trying to encourage?

The reason that deals stagnated in the second part of the season was due to the fact that two sets of values had to be matched up. Both the original values, and the new values. It just didn't make sense to a deal unless both of those were similar.

If we permanently locked values then you would either have to continue to use your players or domestically transfer them. Personally, I'm happy to continue to start the likes of Bailey and Rashford and have no issues continuing to start them.

However, the reality is simple. Almost every single lawyer will be accepted and very quickly all the talent will be bought out.

As I've said, I strongly believe that either:
a) Values should be permanently locked - which I did insist on at the start but was shot down.
b) No TM cap next season, if someone wants to blow the budget on Neymar so be it. Review at the end of season 2.

To respond to Afro's point, while I think it's worth considering a FIFA League, I don't think we can under this current iteration. We'd need to restart and come up with a new league and sign players for that. Unless we want to experiment with a side cup competition next season?

Just to be clear, I am extremely keen for season 2 and don't want the league to stop now or anything. We just need to think carefully how to proceed.

I really don't mind with the current squads moving to a fifa league and I'd be probably in the worst position to do so.

Afro wrote:Isn't that what we are trying to encourage?

Yes, but would those deals take place?

Again using the example of Foden.

1. His value gets frozen at 0m, the price I paid for him.
2. As the seller despite how good he's getting he will have no value to go to foreigns.
3. To then sell domestically the buyer knows that the player they are getting has no resale value.
4. They in turn will not offer much as the buck is passed to them that they cannot sell the player to foreigns.
5. The squads becomes full of these frozen players, no-one willing to take a hit of the ever decreasing circle of letting them back into foreigns and therefore no room to bring in new players.
6. The league dies a slow and painful death.

Hero wrote:I really don't mind with the current squads moving to a fifa league and I'd be probably in the worst position to do so.

Whilst I don't mind either, I think a FIFA league needs to be in a future iteration. I also think it could help a lot with longevity.

Hero wrote:

Afro wrote:Isn't that what we are trying to encourage?

Yes, but would those deals take place?

Again using the example of Foden.

1. His value gets frozen at 0m, the price I paid for him.
2. As the seller despite how good he's getting he will have no value to go to foreigns.
3. To then sell domestically the buyer knows that the player they are getting has no resale value.
4. They in turn will not offer much as the buck is passed to them that they cannot sell the player to foreigns.
5. The squads becomes full of these frozen players, no-one willing to take a hit of the ever decreasing circle of letting them back into foreigns and therefore no room to bring in new players.
6. The league dies a slow and painful death.

If he is not good enough to get in your first team in the near future, you probably don't buy him the first place. If he is, then his value is in his ability not him TM value.

Then the league is only awash with players who are good enough to play in the first team or as backup players.

Afro wrote:

Hero wrote:I really don't mind with the current squads moving to a fifa league and I'd be probably in the worst position to do so.

Whilst I don't mind either, I think a FIFA league needs to be in a future iteration. I also think it could help a lot with longevity.

I am all for a FIFA league, as I agree I think it helps with longevity.

My honest view is whatever is decided I will go along with. I don't think there is one right answer that will please everyone and it will just drag out. I would like players to be updated to current TM values simply because then I would like to start to do some dealing again, but happy to go with whatever.

Could we do some sort of compromise and reduce lawyer values?

Make it so it's TM Value -25%?

Boredom will kick in across the league if we do what Trebs proposes. Not necessarily me, but others I reckon. So for the sake of the majority of the league we should do away with the cap and the value freeze, maybe they refreeze at their value as of the beginning of the season, maybe they don't.

Marky wrote:Boredom will kick in across the league if we do what Trebs proposes. Not necessarily me, but others I reckon. So for the sake of the majority of the league we should do away with the cap and the value freeze, maybe they refreeze at their value as of the beginning of the season, maybe they don't.

Which proposal don't you agree with? I've made three suggestions.

My preference is no cap and end season 2.

I think no cap and keep going as long as we can!

1. Outstanding game - looks like already decided, I was indifferent anyway

2. Prize money for season 1 - Not sure on this one, but I do think there is a danger of Moron and Turner being cut adrift at the bottom (yes I know that I'm speaking with slight bias)

3. Season 2 TP limit - up to £60m or no cap

4. When to start season 2 - With the bank holiday and Easter holidays, I think we should aim for starting on 3rd April, with lawyers on that day and first tactics due in on the 6th - agreed

5. Refreezing of TM value - i.e. when do all the player values unfreeze and then refreeze on their current TM value. I think this should happen on the first day of the season (e.g. 3rd April on my suggestion above - either that or freeze now given what Trebs said about possible updates

To get things moving along for season 2, let's do the season 1 awards.

Please can you vote on the following categories - all taken from the recent media question. I have avoided ones such as worst manager as I want to keep things positive.

Please don't vote for yourself or pick any of your own players in the XI.

Send me a PM and I'll collate them all and reveal the winners

Transfer Guru
Star Player Award
Tactics Master
Individual Match of the Season
Best Overall Guy
CF moment of the Season
Best New Manager
XI of the Season

Okay, general consensus/opinions seem to be:

remaining season 1 game - done and dusted and we've moved on

Prize money - nothing significant, but perhaps something to balance it out a bit and make it a bit more competitive. How about:

1st - £2m
2nd - £4m
3rd - £6m
4th - £8m
5th - £10m
6th - £12m
7th - £14m
8th - £16m
9th - £18m
10th - £20m

TP Limit - no limit

Start of season 2 - first tactics 6th April, first lawyers 3rd April or 27th March?

Refreeze of TM values - straight away to avoid any potential major TM updates


Anyone got any major objections to these? Anything I've missed that we need to consider?

And obviously it's Miky's final call on everything.

I'd disagree with the prize money being distributed in that manner . If I'd have known that I wouldn't have tried as much as I did.

My preference would be finances distributed in accordance with current squad values. Which would help the two at the bottom more.

can i just say I don't want a boost me up figure, it's not horse-racing with handicapping

I have no strong feelings either way on prize money, although I don't think you can do a straight equalisation as that would be unfair on the managers who have been better at picking their signings. Relative to the values though, yes.

What do others think?

I don't want more than anyone above me, failure should not be encouraged

Although I wouldn't be surprised if squad values are quite closely correlated to league position anyway.

Completely agree afro.

I think the sensible thing would be for everyone to work out their new values and update pages then we could work it out.

do we need a cash boost?

Personally I think not, but then I have a big increase in values coming, plus a big pot of cash. So might not be considered the most impartial.

There is some appetite to try and level the playing field a bit to keep it competitive.

The other option is to set some "sponsors/chairman's" targets, so you have competition within the levels of the league, and not have it that it is all about winning the league for all teams.

For example Tino, you might have a target of scoring 20 points and trying to finish 9th or higher. And then if you achieve it, you get a bonus that way.

this season was like free practice for me, feeling out how you guys operate, this season with our newly bright orange livery and a change of engine provider we'll be more competitive

Brooksey79 wrote:this season was like free practice for me, feeling out how you guys operate, this season with our newly bright orange livery and a change of engine provider we'll be more competitive

Hopefully you won't be entirely like McLaren were in testing. One week you will beat the leaders and then the next the team bus will get lost on the way to the ground

whatever you say, whatever evidence you provide, Nando did not make a mistake going there

My overall assets - players, youth and current budget total £460,537,000 (at new TM Values)

If we could get everyone's values I think that we could work out where we all stand. Does anyone else's page have new values on?

Trebs wrote:My overall assets - players, youth and current budget total £460,537,000 (at new TM Values)

If we could get everyone's values I think that we could work out where we all stand. Does anyone else's page have new values on?

Will do mine now - I will put them in brackets just in case

Just done mine.

I'm at £464,190,000

done mine - £309,600,000 thats my team. Got some £££ as well (7m to be exact).

Really poor compared to you two then

£437.2m including cash

Afro - £464,190,000
Trebs - £460,537,000
Bam - £437,200,000
Twist - £316,600,000

Already a £150m difference.

Not suggesting that should be completely made up, but I do think the highest sum of money should be given to teams with less assets. Possibly 50m to the weakest team, and in increments of 5's?

I reckon you lot have been giving yourself some extra £££'s

Especially as not all of you keep the transaction data like I do

Made £152m in TM value increases

Biggest of which are

Soler - 15.75m
Rabiot - 18m
Coman - 13.5m
Guedes - 20.7m

I made 86.4m.

So you have 120m more than me but only made an extra 66m in profit? This stuff hurts my head

£50m is far to big IMO. You can't overlook the fact that managers have earnt, or not earnt those increases in their buying and selling. To suddenly give someone £45m more than that person is not very fair.

I still think you increase people's motivation by setting targets, so you might not think you realistically can win the league, but you do have something to aim for.

Whilst's Twist's team is currently less in value I would suspect that given time it would catch up and overtake.

TwisT wrote:I made 86.4m.

So you have 120m more than me but only made an extra 66m in profit? This stuff hurts my head

Gains from players bought and sold during the season

Do I include the values of players in the youth team?

Mine includes youth team

If so mine is £504m

Hero wrote:If so mine is £504m

So it's confirmed then, you need to give all the other managers £5m.....

Hero wrote:Whilst's Twist's team is currently less in value I would suspect that given time it would catch up and overtake.

Season 5

A lot of things messed me up part way through the season, apart from some dodgy tactics.

For instance if Mahrez had moved in Jan, Diabante would be a starter (and done well). A few of my guys didn't get moves as well. Just the way it goes.