Argentina to Win the Rugby Championship?

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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri May 31, 2019 8:22 pm

First topic message reminder :

Something seems to be brewing in Argentina. The Jaguares are currently top of their conference in Super Rugby with 8 wins from 13 games including some good wins away in SA, NZ and Aus. They are 2nd in the overall standings with a real chance of hosting a quarter final in Argentina for the first time ever. Their form is definitely peaking given that most of their five losses came at the start of the season and they have won 6 of their last 7 games, a narrow loss away to the highlanders being their one recent loss.

Given that New Zealand have a recent habit of not winning the Rugby Championship held in a world cup year (Australia won the last two) is it Argentina's chance to shine being the form super rugby side? The form guide would probably suggest that this years championship is more than likely going to be one of the more hotly contested championships in recent memory so why not Argentina? I suspect their super rugby form will give them renewed belief that they can challenge the other SANZAAR sides and away wins might help them achieve some consistency on the road.

You also know you are good when people like Phil Kearns start to complain about the Jaguares basically being an international side. Kearns also fears that this gives them a huge advantage at the RWC, does it? Probably.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/113139439/jaguares-coach-gonzalo-quesada-hits-back-at-phil-kearns-comments-on-super-rugby-inclusion

SA who claimed a good away win in NZ and who are probably moving in the right direction despite a desperate win loss ratio for 2018 will probably be contenders too albeit more than likely without captain Kolisi who has picked up a fairly serious injury. New Zealand of course are almost always favorites have picked up a few losses in recent years and have some selection quandaries. Who to pick in the back row, is Aaron Smith still their number one guy at 9 and who is Barrett's back up? This particular debate may have gained another dimension as the talented but still relatively inexperienced Mo'unga is subject to some controversy following a recent tour to SA. As usual Australia appear to be a sinking ship which probably means they will be contenders for everything.

Anyway long story short, I knows its still a couple of months out but I would like to call on our resident Kiwis to provide their expert opinions and anyone else why enjoys the rugby championship to chime in and declare who do you think will come 1st to last in this years championship and why? Will it be Los Pumas time to shine?

Go raibh mile maith agaibh.
Is mise le meas,
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Post by Pal Joey on Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:48 pm

Yeah agree on the red (seemed harsh) but that's the law.

Wallabies need to keep up the intensity. Haven't seen them carry this well in ages and plenty of opportunities there. Scrum on par... about time. Good to see the handling has been secure too. I just hope we see more of the same in the 2nd half and Garces doesn't play a huge factor in the outcome.
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Post by Duty281 on Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:49 pm

Clearest red card decision you could possibly see. Kiwis struggling to deal with being outplayed so they resorted to plenty of cheap shots on Hooper. Shame the ignorant pundits want to criticise Garces for 'spoiling the game' or similar such nonsense.

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Post by eirebilly on Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:59 pm

ebop wrote:Probably the softest red card you’ll ever see

I would not say it is the softest red card we have or will ever see. Personally I do not think it was a red but by the letter of the law it was. The Referee's are doing what they always do as a RWC looms, they start coming down harder on certain infringements.
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Post by eirebilly on Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:02 pm

The Aussies making use of the extra man and are putting the AB's to the sword.
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Post by Pal Joey on Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:04 pm

Shades of Jonah there with Kerevi powering down the touchline.
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Post by compelling and rich on Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:08 pm

under the rules you can see why it was given, for me its slightly harsh purely because its around the fringes where defenders get very little time to align there body and hooper was going in around knee height so very difficult not to go high.

problem with reds is in international rugby its a game killer. any top side with a man advantage should easily win the game (if its early like this one). still think reds should only be for the really dangerous tackles which i didnt think that was.

under the rule book its the right decision but dont really agree with the rule book. you cant take risk out of rugby

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Post by eirebilly on Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:10 pm

That was some sustained attack from the AB's. So patient and deserved of the try.
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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:25 pm

NZ a bit of a spent force in their last 4 or 5 games of is Hansen just "creating difficult senarios" for his team again?

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Post by ebop on Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:32 pm

Possibly Guns, no point peaking between WRCs
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Post by ebop on Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:36 pm

Good win wallabies, best they’ve played in a while and deserved win. Exciting game.


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Post by Pal Joey on Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:38 pm

Possibly our best win ever against the ABs in pure rugby terms.
Good to get the 50th win up too... even though it has taken about 111 years.
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Post by ebop on Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:42 pm

Your boys brought it tonight! Accurate, fast, played with initiative. Good stuff and looks good for RWC.
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Post by carpet baboon on Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:43 pm

The best performance from Oz in years.
Letter of the law it was a red, tucking his forearm in rather than trying to reach under hooper made it look intentional, so ref had no choice.
NZ played well with 14 and scored some good trys.
But Oz were making yards against 15 and NZ kept giving away needless penalties

Good game for the neutral.

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Post by Pal Joey on Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:44 pm

I'm sure you'll be back for Eden Park, ebop.

Great win for us heading into the World Cup but as Taylor would say... the bar will be lifted a little higher in the coming month.
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Post by LeinsterFan4life on Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:51 pm

Pal Joey wrote:Shades of Jonah there with Kerevi powering down the touchline.
Fijians have really dug Australia out of the gutter. They are very fortunate to have them.

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Post by ebop on Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:57 pm

Big game next week indeed Pal Joey and exciting to know there’s something very important riding on it. The ABs were poor in first half, lost a man, but seemed to flick a switch in the 2nd half when about when Barrett scored(?) From then on it seemed the ABs ramped up the pace but your boys matched it and kept the foot on the pedal/throat.
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Post by Pal Joey on Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:57 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Pal Joey wrote:Shades of Jonah there with Kerevi powering down the touchline.
Fijians have really dug Australia out of the gutter. They are very fortunate to have them.

Yeah, like your Kiwi coaches and Saffa players.

Should see the Fijians around here, LF4L... massive units. And the men are even bigger. Wink

I'm just glad they held onto the ball and kept their discipline.
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Post by ebop on Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:00 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Pal Joey wrote:Shades of Jonah there with Kerevi powering down the touchline.
Fijians have really dug Australia out of the gutter. They are very fortunate to have them.
When I did some work in Fiji the locals told me their second team is Australia. I don’t know the history but there is a connection, and just like NZ, Islanders emigrate to our countries and ‘some’ become rugby players that represent their adopted country. Get over it.
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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:02 pm

Its like watching two barbarian sides playing eachother Very Happy

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Post by ebop on Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:05 pm

How rugby should be played not like the stodge served up by some teams
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Post by ebop on Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:06 pm

I’m excited by this game, some teams will struggle with that pace
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Post by Pal Joey on Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:10 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Its like watching two barbarian sides playing eachother Very Happy


It's a global phenomenon though now isn't it? No holds barred when it comes to sourcing talent.
But at least our (Aus and NZ) sources are closer to their home islands... and not 18,500 km away. That's literally taking things (from) too far! Very Happy
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Post by LeinsterFan4life on Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:15 pm

Pal Joey wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Pal Joey wrote:Shades of Jonah there with Kerevi powering down the touchline.
Fijians have really dug Australia out of the gutter. They are very fortunate to have them.

Yeah, like your Kiwi coaches and Saffa players.

Should see the Fijians around here, LF4L... massive units. And the men are even bigger.  Wink

I'm just glad they held onto the ball and kept their discipline.
It wasn't a dig, I completely understand why they chose to play for Aus. I love seeing Fijians play not matter who it's for.

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Post by Taylorman on Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:17 pm

Pal Joey wrote:I'm sure you'll be back for Eden Park, ebop.

Great win for us heading into the World Cup but as Taylor would say... the bar will be lifted a little higher in the coming month.

I dunno PJ, we weren’t in the same race tonight, Oz had another gear on from the start, way too good. Only good thing about this for us is we get another shot albeit at our fortress next week.

Wales go to no.1 now? SA will take out the RC? And Oz the Bledisloe next week?

Well done Oz, where to now? Got me. Good to see the Wallabies playing like that again. Reminds of a few seasons ago. Hooper was immense. As was White, Kerevi, Beale, hodge, CLL, all of them
really.

Stunning, going to be a fun week watching the ABs try and get out of this one.

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Post by ebop on Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:28 pm

Good to know we can’t win the RC in RWC year, that’s a positive, the stars are aligning Wink
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Post by Pal Joey on Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:31 pm

ebop wrote:Good to know we can’t win the RC in RWC year, that’s a positive, the stars are aligning Wink

That's the pattern is it? I reckon you'll go all the way again.

Anyway... I'll bring over some flowers for Mum tomorrow. Try and cheer her up. Smile
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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:34 pm

Pal Joey wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Its like watching two barbarian sides playing eachother Very Happy


It's a global phenomenon though now isn't it? No holds barred when it comes to sourcing talent.
But at least our (Aus and NZ) sources are closer to their home islands... and not 18,500 km away. That's literally taking things (from) too far! Very Happy

Yes it is, though they are a few thousand KM away not that close really.

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Post by Pal Joey on Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:35 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
Pal Joey wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Its like watching two barbarian sides playing eachother Very Happy


It's a global phenomenon though now isn't it? No holds barred when it comes to sourcing talent.
But at least our (Aus and NZ) sources are closer to their home islands... and not 18,500 km away. That's literally taking things (from) too far! Very Happy

Yes it is, though they are a few thousand KM away not that close really.

Nonsense. It's only a short canoe trip... or a few hours by plane these days. Wink
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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:37 pm

Bringing back JOC, stroke of genius from Cheika Wink

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:39 pm

Taylorman wrote:
Pal Joey wrote:I'm sure you'll be back for Eden Park, ebop.

Great win for us heading into the World Cup but as Taylor would say... the bar will be lifted a little higher in the coming month.

I dunno PJ, we weren’t in the same race tonight, Oz had another gear on from the start, way too good. Only good thing about this for us is we get another shot albeit at our fortress next week.

Wales go to no.1 now? SA will take out the RC? And Oz the Bledisloe next week?

Well done Oz, where to now? Got me. Good to see the Wallabies playing like that again. Reminds of a few seasons ago. Hooper was immense. As was White, Kerevi, Beale, hodge, CLL, all of them
really.

Stunning, going to be a fun week watching the ABs try and get out of this one.

Hope Cheika gets some credit. Is Foley injured or just dropped?

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Post by Pal Joey on Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:53 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Pal Joey wrote:I'm sure you'll be back for Eden Park, ebop.

Great win for us heading into the World Cup but as Taylor would say... the bar will be lifted a little higher in the coming month.

I dunno PJ, we weren’t in the same race tonight, Oz had another gear on from the start, way too good. Only good thing about this for us is we get another shot albeit at our fortress next week.

Wales go to no.1 now? SA will take out the RC? And Oz the Bledisloe next week?

Well done Oz, where to now? Got me. Good to see the Wallabies playing like that again. Reminds of a few seasons ago. Hooper was immense. As was White, Kerevi, Beale, hodge, CLL, all of them
really.

Stunning, going to be a fun week watching the ABs try and get out of this one.

Hope Cheika gets some credit. Is Foley injured or just dropped?

Dropped or put aside for Lealiifano.
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Post by kingelderfield on Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:05 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Bringing back JOC, stroke of genius from Cheika Wink

It will be fascinating to see how these teams perform next week and I think it under scores just how open this WC will be.

As for JOC, I was thinking how emotional he must have felt going into this game......almost like it was his WC final. Good luck to him and wow what I ride the past 10 years have been. Definitely one for the ages.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:35 am

Aparently Garces is reffing NZ v SA in the pool match at the RWC. NZ take note.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:42 am

Collapse2005 wrote:Aparently Garces is reffing NZ v SA in the pool match at the RWC. NZ take note.

Whoever wins that match is largely irrelevant. Both will likely go through.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:33 am

Thats true but I doubt either team will want to lose it at all.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:05 am

Can’t remember a side wanting to lose a match. Why bother playing?
Though get your point about Garces. Hopeless. Missed forward passes galore from both sides.
The red was fair, similar to those dished out u20s which affected so many matches.
Hansen will be spewing about the discipline on that count, Saveas push on Hooper rubbish discipline.
At least we are under the pump now. You don’t want these performances at World Cup time.
In one week we could lose the no.1 ranking to a side we’ve beaten 30 straight, lose the Bledisloe, and losing the never lost at Eden park in the pro era streak.
One loss was always acceptable this round, two and a draw nope.
ABs rightfully under the pump. Next week and few weeks after that will tell us what they’re capable of.


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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:10 am

Argentina totally dominated by SA. Comprehensive win and first title in about a decade. There are humming now.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:13 am

Taylorman wrote:Can’t remember a side wanting to lose a match. Why bother playing?

Thats a bit of a contradiction to your earlier post in which you basically said it didnt matter whoever loses the game. It does matter, maybe not in terms of getting out of the group but for numerous other reasons.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:15 am

Collapse2005 wrote:
Taylorman wrote:Can’t remember a side wanting to lose a match. Why bother playing?

Thats a bit of a contradiction to your earlier post in which you basically said it didnt matter whoever loses the game. It does matter, maybe not in terms of getting out of the group but for numerous other reasons.

They’ll both want to win the match but both will qualify. That’s it. In this group the loss itself will hurt, finishing first or second is irrelevant. The later who plays who games are not something we bother with.
If you think that’s important,sounds logical then about now you’ll be wondering whether you should beat Scotland if NZ beat or lose to SA in pool.
Total waste of energy and time. The knockout matches will stand up on their own merit no matter who’s in them.
Now with both SA and Oz on the up id say NHers will wonder what on earths going on. Have been saying for months World Cup year is a different beast for these sides. May not be NZs time again but the Boks certainly look tough. And Oz have found some great new, albeit old, combinations.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:33 am

Unable to view the SA game as it wasn’t on TSN. That’s annoying but yeah I expected them to pump Argentina. I didn’t expect Aus to pump NZ but it goes to show, most teams need to be playing against a NZ team of just 14 men if they’re to win. I expect there’ll be a backlash in the return fixture.

I said a few weeks ago that Aus have a big, strong forward pack and that is what is going to enable them to compete against most teams. Their backs even without Folau are back to looking very good.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:44 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Unable to view the SA game as it wasn’t on TSN. That’s annoying but yeah I expected them to pump Argentina. I didn’t expect Aus to pump NZ but it goes to show, most teams need to be playing against a NZ team of just 14 men if they’re to win. I expect there’ll be a backlash in the return fixture.

I said a few weeks ago that Aus have a big, strong forward pack and that is what is going to enable them to compete against most teams. Their backs even without Folau are back to looking very good.

Yes and they looked particularly good at breakdown time, Hooper playing much closer to the ball most of the match in surely a MOTM performance. In one match they've dispelled the need for all three of Genia, Pocock and Folau if they continue that form. The pace of the game was frantic and thats what we'll see in Japan. Hopefully red cards arent going to ruin it as they impacted the U20's.

Theyve gotta be given but the impact can be huge, especially when playing a side like Oz who wants to use all the width possible. We struggled to cover the extra man off, something we would exploit to the max as Oz did.

Well done Boks, they now own the job of spoiling the 3N/ RC myth of no one ever winning it and WCup in same year since 1999.

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Post by carpet baboon on Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:26 pm

For me the red was inevitable as soon as he tucked his forearm Into his body.
If you can have a look at the framework irb sent out to refs for red/yellow cards.
It's pretty much a flowchart and shows the decision process they should follow.
And one of the decision factors for a red is arm tucked into body.

Will see if I can find a link to it.

And here it is

https://laws.worldrugby.org/en/guidelines

There is a nicer infographic version but can't find it right now



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Post by SecretFly on Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:57 am

In reply to ebop...
... I presume the '?' at the end saves the blushes....

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Post by ebop on Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:00 am

Too slow mr fly Wink

But maybe Guns the master predictor will explain what was brewing in Argentina
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Post by RDW on Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:36 pm

Can't see anything but a NZ win this morning - not least because it's Eden Park! NZ are certainly rattled just now but I also think last week's game was a bit of a freak result that made Australia look better than they are.

I guess we'll find out in 80 minutes if I'm right!

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Argentina to Win the Rugby Championship? - Page 5 Empty Re: Argentina to Win the Rugby Championship?

Post by Pal Joey on Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:40 pm

The rain and wet conditions will certainly not help us. Expecting lots of penalties... like that one.
Can only see an AB victory.
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Post by ebop on Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:35 pm

Probably the softest yellow card you’ll ever see to match the softest red card you’ll ever see last week. White literally jumped and hammed that one up. Rugby has an issue alright and it’s quite frightening to think where it’ll end up if ‘these’ cards are the norm.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:41 pm

I'm not sure you really believe that ebop!

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Post by BigTrevsbigmac on Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:47 pm

Normal service resumed so far......

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Post by ebop on Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:00 pm

7.5, I reckon the TMO should only be allowed to look at ‘incidents’ at real-time speed because there are ‘countless’ similar incidents that happen in every single game that could be super-slow-mo’d down to generate a card of some description.
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